The Twins and Second Base Defense: A Match Made in Gehenna

[LA Vikes Fan]

42 minutes ago, jmlease1 said:

The classic Twins Daily reaction to a prospect not being perfect in every aspect: let's move on to the next guy!

If Keaschall can play average or better defense at 2B and hit anywhere near where's been in this truncated rookie season, he's a huge asset. Why would we want to move him to 1B now and still not have 2B solved?

How about we just give Keaschall the opportunity to take 100 grounders a day in the offseason and get reps with his throwing, and see where he's at in a Spring Training where he's actually allowed to throw?

I think the reason people propose moving Keaschall to 1B is a little different - we don't have a 1B in the organization and we might have a 2B with either Eeles or Culpeper. Personally, I'd love to see Keaschall grab 2B by the throat and play there for 10 years. If Culpepper comes up, he can play SS and Lee can go to the bench.  

[old nurse]

7 hours ago, DJL44 said:

The Twins have been devaluing defense at 2B for at least a quarter century. Luis Rivas, Todd Walker, Brendan Harris, Alexi Casilla, Michael Cuddyer, 

Brian Dozier was a decent fielder and he might be the only one developed by the Twins. Free agents Schoop, Orlando Hudson and Luis Castillo could play defense but it wasn't valued highly enough to keep them on the team long-term.

Schoop, Hudson, nor Castillo were long term answers anywhere after they left the Twins 

[Western SD Fan]

I'll give the author a little grace.  We are at the end of a bad season and sometimes having thought exercises is necessary to get people thinking about where to put all of the players next year and identifying what the potential offseason needs are, whether they are filled internally or externally.  I don't think it's necessarily an attack on Keaschall, but it's all to consider the future for 2026.  Maybe you have Keaschall work on his defense in the offseason and see what happens in spring training next year.  You can always convert him to 1B if it looks like someone from the minors is ready.

[Trov]

2nd base is always one of those interesting positions.  When you have a great defender there it is nice, but normally the 2nd basemen are the guys that could not cut it at SS and lack the arm for third.  However, rarely do you have a guy that is elite hitter and defender, at any position, but how often will you have an elite defender at 2nd, that can hit well too.  Most of the time, if they are elite at 2nd they can defend SS.  

Then you need to decide how much value does an elite 2nd baseman add versus having an average to below average, which is subjective because if all the teams have poor defenders at 2nd are they below average? 2nd base has become similar to how 1st was looked at before, you can try to hide the weak defenders there if they have a bat. 

[RpR]

1 hour ago, Trov said:

2nd base is always one of those interesting positions.  When you have a great defender there it is nice, but normally the 2nd basemen are the guys that could not cut it at SS and lack the arm for third.  However, rarely do you have a guy that is elite hitter and defender, at any position, but how often will you have an elite defender at 2nd, that can hit well too.  Most of the time, if they are elite at 2nd they can defend SS.  

Then you need to decide how much value does an elite 2nd baseman add versus having an average to below average, which is subjective because if all the teams have poor defenders at 2nd are they below average? 2nd base has become similar to how 1st was looked at before, you can try to hide the weak defenders there if they have a bat. 

How quickly and accurately a 2nd baseman turns a double play is very important, dissing how valuable 2nd base is, is silly.

[stringer bell]

3 hours ago, RpR said:

How quickly and accurately a 2nd baseman turns a double play is very important, dissing how valuable 2nd base is, is silly.

Only from viewing Keaschall in a small sample size, he’s been surprisingly quick turning the double play. I don’t know what his throwing velocity is (presume it is low) but I have seen pretty quick turns and accurate throws on potential double plays.

I hope and expect he’ll be able to put more on his throws next year, with five more months to build strength. 

[stringer bell]

11 hours ago, saviking said:

Simple solution. Move Keaschall to first and bring up Culpepper to play 2nd next year. Solve 2 positions. 

Has Culpepper played any second base since the Twins drafted him? He’s been primarily a shortstop with some reps at third IIRC.

If the Twins get to the point where they have too many decent infielders (outside of first base) then maybe convert someone to first. I don’t see that on the horizon at this point. 

[tony&rodney]

2 hours ago, stringer bell said:

Has Culpepper played any second base since the Twins drafted him? He’s been primarily a shortstop with some reps at third IIRC.

If the Twins get to the point where they have too many decent infielders (outside of first base) then maybe convert someone to first. I don’t see that on the horizon at this point. 

45 innings at 2B in Wichita this year. Culpepper has been primarily a shortstop and he is pretty quick there too. I'm sure he could adapt to 2B is there was a good reason to move him there. 

[Nshore]

For the most part, Falvey only wants to draft and accumulate barely competent left handed hitting outfielders, and shortstops.  Causes some problems.

[Aaron T]

Brian Dozier is the most-recent example I can think of for an “everyday” Twins 2B. Not always the best fielder, but he was a fantastic leadoff hitter at his peak ❤️

[Chembry]

7 hours ago, stringer bell said:

Only from viewing Keaschall in a small sample size, he’s been surprisingly quick turning the double play. I don’t know what his throwing velocity is (presume it is low) but I have seen pretty quick turns and accurate throws on potential double plays.

I hope and expect he’ll be able to put more on his throws next year, with five more months to build strength. 

According to statcast, Keaschall is in the 7th percentile for arm strength.  For 2B, statcast averages top 5% of throws with a minimum of 75 throws to qualify.  That all leads to a 75.8 mph average and a rank of 352 of 380 qualified MLB players.  Specifically for 2B, SS, and 3B (lumped together) he ranks 160 out of 168.  For comparison, Matt Wallner is 4th in MLB averaging 96 mph on his throws.

With that being said, I assume he will improve significantly next year with longer recovery time.  I was able to find a prep report and he was clocked in the mid 80’s. Assuming he can get back to where he was, that would put him close to MLB average overall and in top 50 of the 2B, SS, 3B group. 

If Keaschall can play an average 2B while continuing hitting the way he has (batting run value of 12 which is in 71st percentile of all MLB), he will be big asset to the Twins.

[JBK]

On 9/7/2025 at 11:48 AM, mikelink45 said:

I am beyond trying to figure out what is logical for this team.  Outman and Gaspar on the team makes no sense.  Half the BP makes no sense.  Continuing to hope Julien will hit is a waste of time. 

Forget the crap about service time.  A few games left - let some of the potential prospects get their feet wet in MLB.

Yes shut down Ober - what are we waiting for.  Let him start over in 2026.  

 

 

15 hours ago, twinstalker said:

Keaschall should be good.  He just needs health, reps, and maybe an offseason of working really hard at it.  He seems the type that would, though I have my doubts the staff is going to prioritize it.  Under Kelly (and even Gardenhire) the team didn't accept poor fielding.  While I disagreed with a good amount of the mythology surrounding it, the "Twins Way" was a real thing.  Fielding, baserunning, and all fundamentals were requirements.

Under TK, the "Twins Way" was the reason David Ortiz was released.

[jmlease1]

23 hours ago, DJL44 said:

The Twins have been devaluing defense at 2B for at least a quarter century. Luis Rivas, Todd Walker, Brendan Harris, Alexi Casilla, Michael Cuddyer, 

Brian Dozier was a decent fielder and he might be the only one developed by the Twins. Free agents Schoop, Orlando Hudson and Luis Castillo could play defense but it wasn't valued highly enough to keep them on the team long-term.

Casilla developed into a pretty good defender at 2B; he just couldn't hit. Rivas was just a bad player, period. Walker might have been in the trade defense for hitting club...if he'd ever consistently hit. only had 2 seasons in a row as an above-average hitter in a 12 season career, which is why he played for 7 teams. Harris was never a league average hitter for the Twins, after 1 ok-ish season where he played like a decent utility player forced to start he sucked out loud.

Is the issue that the Twins have traded defense for offense or more that they haven't been able to find a decent 2B who can stick for 5 seasons at the position period? 

Knoblauch. Dozier. That's basically it over the last 30 years for long-term solutions at the position. Punto never played even a half a season at 2B for the Twins (high of 73 games at the position), I mean Casilla played there for a number of seasons, but lord knows he wasn't a SOLUTION.

Which is why if Keaschall can show progress defensively at 2B, locking him in there and rolling with it might be the smartest possible thing we could do...

[jorgenswest]

Has it ever been reasonable to believe that Keaschall would play an average 2B?

Take a look at all of the second basemen who have enough innings to be qualified this year. They were shortstops. They played it in the minors and some in the majors. There is one player that was drafted as a college 2B and hasn’t played SS in professional ball. Brandon Lowe is a 2B because of his career wRC+ of 124. He has never been below 100 in a season. That more than offsets his career -22 OAA and -24 DRS at 2B.

There are two other players I found with some shortstop play yet many second base innings in their careers. Brendan Donovan and Jeff McNeill have been used more at shortstop in the minors and some in the majors than Keaschall but they were not drafted as shortstops. They have a lot of major leagues innings in the outfield as well as 3B and 1B. Teams find a way to get their bat in the game. The Twins need to find a way to get Keaschall’s bat in the game. If he is a below average 2B it will be OK if he can maintain a wRC+ of around 120 like the three unicorns above.

 

[USAFChief]

Keaschall has a long way to go to be even average defensively. It's certainly possible his extremely weak arm improves with injury recovery, but no sure thing. And that doesn't address his rather stone-like hands. Improving that's gonna take a lot of work, if it happens at all.

But I'd say the juice is worth the squeeze, if he continues to hit like he has. Also no sure thing, BTW.

Let him have 2nd for at least 2026. What's the downside? It's not like you're risking contention.

[RpR]

If - Assumption - Presumption are often some of reasons for a divorce.

[old nurse]

On 9/11/2025 at 1:21 PM, DocBauer said:

Jeff Kent says hello.

I don't think 2B has been a defense first position for a couple decades or more. But I also think it's really hard to find one that is quality defensively AND offensively. 

I think Keaschall has a chance to be one of those guys though. He's missed so much field time by being restricted to 1B/DH almost exclusively until mid ST this year due to his elbow and subsequent surgery. And then he misses 2 months this season with a broken arm.

He's got the speed and athleticism to get to balls, including those deep in the hole. He's also got the speed and athleticism to chase pop-ups in to the OF. The awkwardness he shows at times actually fielding the ball should smooth out with time. 

Down the road, there's also the possibility of K-Pepper playing 2B if/when Houston might replace Lee. Keaschall probably becomes a LF/DH/1B at that point. But I've got faith he's going to settle in at 2B nicely. 

 

On 9/11/2025 at 1:40 PM, Greggory Masterson said:

I’ve gotten a couple of comments on this, and I agree that the slide has been happening longer than the past decade, but it accelerated a lot in the recent past. And yes, you can cite examples like Kent, Soriano, or someone like Daniel Murphy, but they’re still the exceptions. I wrote a couple years ago about balancing the bat and glove at second to produce value, and I agree.

however, the weakest hitting position in baseball this season is second base, implying that good defense is still valued there, probably highly, by most organizations. 

If you go back and look over the primary second basemen over the last 30 years you will find a sad tale. Fangraphs list only 250 as qualified. Their defensive war was based on UZR, it was all they had. SO a career WRC+ over 110 and a career dwar of over 4 produced only 6 players: Utley Pedroia, Zobrist, Marte McNeal, Kent and Alomar.  A couple mor bad hitting season, McNeil falls off this list.  If you are looking at 100 to 110 WRC you can add 18 more names. Above average offense and above average defense is close to unicorn status.  What is competent defense as a measure still has not been identifies

[HFC]

I support Brooks and Luke playing there pretty much every day next year. Let them settle in and develop chemistry.