Week in Review: Avert Your Eyes

[Nick Nelson]

Image courtesy of Jesse Johnson-Imagn Images

The Weekly Nutshell:
What can you even really say at this point. The on-field results are beyond ugly. The team itself looks despondent and the fanbase has all but checked out, with Target Field sitting emptier than ever before while local sporting crowds readily shift their attention to football. 

I get that the Twins are a mere shell of their former selves, roster-wise. I get that by now, losing is more advantageous than winning in the grand scheme. But good lord man. This is hideous, shameful baseball. The offense continues to sputter along in a hapless daze while the pitching staff blows late leads day after day. Those of us still watching are searching desperately for signs of hope but finding little to cling onto. 

Weekly Snapshot: Mon, 9/1 through Sun, 9/7
***
Record Last Week: 1-6 (Overall: 63-80)
Run Differential Last Week: -20 (Overall: -83)
Standing: 4th Place in AL Central (18.5 GB) 

Game 137 | CWS 6, MIN 5: Ober Struggles, Comeback From Twins Falls Short

• Topa: 1 IP, 2 ER, L

Game 138 | CWS 12, MIN 3: Replacement-Level Relievers Rocked in Blowout Loss

• Hatch, Davis: 3 IP, 8 ER

Game 139 | CWS 4, MIN 3: Funderburk and Topa Blow Two-Run Lead in Ninth Inning

• Funderburk, Topa: 1 IP, 3 ER

Game 140 | CWS 11, MIN 8: White Sox Rally Late to Complete Humiliating Sweep

• Adams: 1 IP, 4 ER

Game 141 | KC 2, MIN 1: López Pitches Well in Return, Offense Comes Up Empty

• Twins hitters: 1-8 RISP, 8 LOB

Game 142 | KC 11, MIN 2: Royals Jump All Over Ryan on the Way to Lopsided Win

• Ryan: 2 IP, 5 ER, 4 BB

Game 143 | MIN 5, KC 1: Ober Excels as Twins Snap Six-Game Losing Streak

• Ober: 5.1 IP, 1 ER, 7 K

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NEWS & NOTES

Sidelined since June 4th by a teres major strain, Pablo López made his return to the Twins rotation on Friday night following a relatively lengthy rehab stint at Triple-A. Facing the Royals in Kansas City, he looked mostly like himself, pitching six strong innings with just two runs allowed. Good to have Pablo back.

Twins fans haven't gotten much respite in this second half, but at least they got a little bit when Noah Davis was outrighted to Triple-A in order to make room for López. The bar is pretty low in terms of pitching performance on this depleted staff, but again ... good LORD man. Davis now has a 9.53 career ERA in 62 major-league innings after surrendering nine earned runs on four homers in five innings spread across two stints with the Twins. 

Big downer: David Festa won't make it back this year. His shoulder issue flared up again as he tried to ramp up for a late-season return, and now he has ominously been slated for a visit with Dr. Keith Meister, signaling a fairly high level of concern. If Festa needs surgery, it will likely cost him some if not most of next season while drastically dampening his long-term outlook; shoulders are tough. 

Ryan Jeffers absorbed a couple of tough blows behind the plate on Thursday and was initially diagnosed with a head contusion. DaShawn Keirsey Jr. was swapped out from the roster for Jhonny Pereda to add catching depth as the Twins evaluated their starting backstop. On Sunday the Twins moved Jeffers to the 7-day concussion injured list, replacing him on the roster with outfielder Carson McCusker. Also on Sunday, reliever Brooks Kriske was designated for assignment, with Pierson Ohl returning to the bullpen in his stead.

HIGHLIGHTS

Amid the wreckage of last week, there were a few notably strong performances, so let's talk about them. Cole Sands was dominant against the White Sox on Wednesday, striking out four over two perfect innings to protect a slim lead before his bullpen-mates blew it in the ninth. He added 1 ⅓ innings of scoreless relief on Sunday. Sands has a 17-to-3 strikeout-to-walk ratio over 11 ⅓ scoreless innings in his past nine appearances, and is coming to very much resemble the dominant version of himself who broke through in a relief role last year.

This is a legitimately critical development. Sands was Minnesota's fifth or sixth option out of the bullpen for much of this season, but now is now thrust into being its de facto leader going forward. In order to have any chance of fielding a competent relief corps next year, the Twins are going to need Sands in top form. Right now we are seeing it.

Taj Bradley's top form has been elusive of late, which is part of the reason Tampa was willing to part with him in a trade that helped dismantle the bullpen around Sands. Bradley was sent down to Triple-A by the Rays earlier this season, and was pitching there before Minnesota acquired him in exchange for Griffin Jax. 

In his Twins debut on August 24th, Bradley got knocked around by the White Sox for seven earned runs with only one strikeout in five innings. He rebounded with a good start against San Diego last weekend, and then added another encouraging showing on Thursday in a rematch against the White Sox. The results were hardly great — 5 IP, 4 ER — but Bradley was far more impressive in this one, striking out seven with only one walk. 

 

Bradley's numbers in his short time with the Twins are not outstanding (7.20 ERA, 4.01 FIP) nor are his overall stats in 369 big-league innings: 4.80 ERA, 4.33 FIP. But in a game like this, you can't miss the upside and imminent potential in his arm. Bradley will turn 25 next spring and has what it takes to plug in as an inexpensive mid-rotation fixture for several years.

Zebby Matthews also pitched very well against the White Sox, holding them to one run over six innings on Wednesday, and Simeon Woods Richardson enjoyed a bounce-back outing a day earlier (5 IP, 2 ER, 7 K). Looking forward, it's easy enough to feel quite good about Minnesota's cost-controlled starting pitching depth, even with the unfortunate Festa news. Elsewhere the vibes are less good.

LOWLIGHTS

What did we as Twins fans do to deserve being subjected to this bullpen? It has unsurprisingly been the worst in baseball since the front office traded their top five relievers at the deadline, and this past week we got a full dosage of the ramifications. Against the White Sox, home fans watched a collection of non-major-league talents cough up leads over and over again. I know the Twins aren't trying to lose, per se, but if they were, how different would it look?

Twins pitchers gave up 30 earned runs on 46 hits and nine homers in four games against the White Sox, who are heading toward 100 losses. Justin Topa surrendered a one-run lead in the eighth inning on Monday and took the loss. Thomas Hatch was blasted for five earned over two innings in Tuesday's blowout defeat before Davis came in and yielded three more. Kody Funderburk and Topa combined to blow a two-run lead in ninth on Wednesday. Travis Adams was shelled for four earned runs in one inning on Thursday, wiping out another multi-run lead. Hatch gave up four earned runs in three innings on Saturday, and Kriske yielded a couple more as a parting gift.

You might say, who cares. None of these guys, sans Adams and maybe Topa or Funderburk, have much chance of playing any role in the 2026 bullpen. But that's kind of the problem! We're not even seeing potential contributors audition here in the waning weeks of a lost season. The few that are, like Adams, look bad. I tried mapping out a roster for next season and it's very hard to even theorize a bullpen composition, because there are so few credible options at the moment. 

 

The outlook for the offense feels more set-in-stone, but that's not necessarily a good thing. For better or worse the Twins are probably going to bring back a large portion of the position-player regulars who are currently flailing away and losing games day after day.

I'm wondering if the returning group will include James Outman. Seemingly the club has to stick with him for more than six weeks after giving up two-plus years of (albeit an injury-prone) Brock Stewart for him. But it was difficult to comprehend what the Twins saw in Outman when they acquired him, and it's even harder now. He looks horrendous. He went 1-for-18 in seven games (four starts) last week and is now hitting .148 with zero home runs in 59 plate appearances as a Twin. Yet another brutal first impression from a trade deadline addition, which is a trend only Bradley has mildly been able to buck. 

Brooks Lee is much more important than Outman to the team's future, making it even more disappointing to see his bat tailing off again following a brief hot streak. Lee went 5-for-23 with a double and an RBI, and is batting .193 with two extra-base hits since his one-week power flurry in mid-August. Those bursts of production, while somewhat promising, have been too rare and fleeting to inspire a great deal of confidence. For the most part, Lee continues to look overmatched against MLB pitching. Regardless, he's all but assured of the starting shortstop job next season.

TRENDING STORYLINE 

J.J. McCarthy and the Minnesota Vikings are set to face off against Caleb Williams and the Chicago Bears in a season-opening divisional showdown on Monday Night Football! Two young quarterbacks with much to prove will be looking to get things started the right way for a pair of teams with high-variance outlooks, both kicking off their seasons under the bright national lights.

I'm just kidding, this isn't turning into a Vikings column. But, that does sort of hint at the trending storyline surrounding this Minnesota Twins team in my mind: dying fan interest. People were already tuning out from this product even before the NFL season began, and Target Field promises to be all the more quiet and empty for the final remaining home stand, which starts next weekend.

It's only reasonable and expected that sports fans are widely checking out from the Twins right now. I just find myself worrying a great deal about the go-forward. The depressing attendance totals for the White Sox series don't even fully encompass the state of affairs, because those were inflated by an existing season ticket base that is certain to dry up in the coming offseason. 

It's a bleak time. Watching the Minnesota Twins, the worst team in MLB since the All-Star break, get their brains beat in by horrible competition, with a roster that offers little hope of improving enough to be competent next year — that's really all I can bring myself to think about. I appreciate that the people reading this column still care. I myself will be following this team to the bitter end. But aside from us sickos, the Twins are making it extremely difficult for anyone to care and invest their energy, time, or money. Maybe in these final weeks and the coming offseason they can find something to spark a light of any kind. But the leadership of this wayward organization aren't giving us any reason to believe.

LOOKING AHEAD

The Twins take their final trip out west to face an Angels team that is more mediocre than terrible. That puts them several notches above Minnesota in terms of caliber, so I anticipate a series loss at minimum. Next weekend the Twins return home to take on an Arizona team the could be described similarly. 

MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 1: TWINS @ ANGELS — RHP Simeon Woods Richardson v. TBD
TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 2: TWINS @ ANGELS — RHP Zebby Matthews v. RHP Kyle Hendricks
WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 3: TWINS @ ANGELS — RHP Taj Bradley v. RHP Jose Soriano
FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 5: DIAMONDBACKS @ TWINS — RHP Brandon Pfaadt v. RHP Pablo Lopez
SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 6: DIAMONDBACKS @ TWINS — RHP Ryne Nelson v. RHP Joe Ryan
SUNDAY, SEPTEMBER 7: DIAMONDBACKS @ TWINS — RHP Nabil Crismatt v. RHP Bailey Ober

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[Vanimal46]

Big TV ratings can count less than 1 hour of my eyes watching the Twins live this past week. A vast majority of that time coming when the Eagles/Cowboys game got delayed with thunderstorms on Thursday.

It’s crystal clear that tanking is the top priority the rest of the season, It’s driving important players like Joe Ryan crazy. To the point where he will request his way out this winter.

[Parfigliano]

Maybe this time they will play or DH McCusker everyday and see if there is anything positive to be had.

 

[old nurse]

What did they see in Outman? More of a chance for success than any other player offered? Why did they trade Brock Stewart? The insurance premiums were higher than his salary. 

[mnfireman]

Picking apart the pitching and a few guys hitting does not paint the complete picture of this team, The defense is horrible; misplaying routine grounders, bad routes on fly balls, dropped fly balls (Buxton included), throwing to the wrong base and/or over throwing the cut-off man. And this doesn't include the weak arms trotted out to 2B and SS or the bad throws to the bases by the infielders.

While I like the more aggressive approach to baserunning, a team that has been coached to conservatively run the bases can't just flip the switch, this team has been thrown out due to indecision on the bases and picked off at an alarming rate since August 1, many times that shut down a potential big inning.

So again, the pitching and hitting are only part of the problem, they are pretty bad at most parts of the game or have the wrong bodies in important positions.

Growing pains are tough for players and fans alike, maybe some of these guys can figure it out and the next group(s) of prospects don't turn out to be the next Julien, Miranda, etc...

[tony&rodney]

14 minutes ago, Parfigliano said:

Maybe this time they will play or DH McCusker everyday and see if there is anything positive to be had.

 

Putting McCusker in the lineup every day wouldn't be the worst thing that has happened to the Twins. Put him in right field and move Wallner to DH. Let them compete.

Nick, it's a hard knock life for us. Your sheet for next year needs some changes. Ryan and possibly Lopez and Ober may want out. We all enjoy watching Ryan and Lopez pitch but the coming purge of more players seems inevitable, whether we like it or not. 

Right now the Twins are overmatched when they turn to the bullpen. The defense continues to be below average. There are spats of hitting here and there though. Out of nowhere the Twins have suddenly become a team unafraid to run. That was a very well coordinated double steal today by Lewis and Keaschall. 

Continue to have hope the Twins are sold and new management comes along and manages to complete some trades for good ballplayers. There has to be a team out there that is willing to gamble a baseball player for Ryan, Lopez, etc.

The Twins mettle will be tested in the remaining games. I don't think anyone will be having any mercy towards our boys. Pitchers like Matthews, Woods Richardson, and Bradley need to dig down deep to close the year with some solid starts. I would expect Lopez, Ryan, and Ober to be focused.

Side note - why start a sick Ryan on Saturday?

[USAFChief]

One small sliver of hope: I now consider it very unlikely that Baldelli survives this collapse.

 

[Peter]

4-2 this week. And yes I’ll always support the twins no matter what win or lose!!!! lol on trading Lopez/ryan or them moving!!! Nor is Rocco/falvey getting fired Not happening!!! Next 2-3 year will be rebuilding but as long as they competitive I’m fine with that!!! Twins aren’t as bad as all of you make them out to be!!!

[Richie the Rally Goat]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Richie the Rally Goat]

8 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

Side note - why start a sick Ryan on Saturday?

Good question! I can only imagine that it was too late when the FO found out and couldn’t call someone up in time. The bullpen is on fumes and someone is going to get hurt.

[karcherd]

1 hour ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

Good question! I can only imagine that it was too late when the FO found out and couldn’t call someone up in time. The bullpen is on fumes and someone is going to get hurt.

They have six starters on the roster, it should have been very easy to slot someone in to start like most competent organizations would do.

[rv78]

When Fal/vine took over the "plan" was to build a perrenial contender. Winning 1 playoff series to date is not it. The FO has taken a once promising team which we witnessed in 2019 and have completely destroyed it. Let's face it, the majority of the players on this team are just plain bad and with every passing year that list continues to grow. The probability and very likely subtraction of Lopez and Ryan this off-season will only make that worse. In 2026 the fans must make their voices heard by boycotting this team. Target Field needs to look like a ghost town if we want change where it counts. The Owners, the FO and the Management team on the field must go, or nothing will change.

[Doctor Gast]

Pohlads' right-sizing, Falvey & Co.'s long-failed weird analytics philosophies that negatively affected all areas of development & management. Has killed all hope in this team. We can survive right-sizing & become more like MIL. But we can't survive management's incompetence in evaluating, developing, managing & trading players.

There's nothing that Falvey can do to instill any hope in this team. Our best hope is to fire Falvey immediately, Pohlads you want keep the Twins? Then show fans that you care enough about winning & not worry about hurting Falvey's feelings. Get someone in who knows what he is doing. Or next season will be very disastrous for you!!!!!!

I didn't trust Falvey to head this deadline sell-off. Trading Pablo would throw us deeper into this abyss that would add many more years to any semblance of returning to a competitive team.

 

[Doctor Gast]

19 minutes ago, rv78 said:

When Fal/vine took over the "plan" was to build a perrenial contender. Winning 1 playoff series to date is not it. The FO has taken a once promising team which we witnessed in 2019 and have completely destroyed it. Let's face it, the majority of the players on this team are just plain bad and with every passing year that list continues to grow. The probability and very likely subtraction of Lopez and Ryan this off-season will only make that worse. In 2026 the fans must make the voices heard by boycotting this team. Target Field needs to look like a ghost town if we want change where it counts. The Owners, the FO and the Management team on the filed must go, or nothing will change.

I agree with everything you said. Falvey has used every excuse in the book; health (mismanaged), coaches (they did what they were told), not enough $ to spend on desired FAs (whom he'd overpay), no players available to trade for (although many team were able to do so), & now it's the players' fault, the players are bad. Heaven forbid that the players weren't developed in defense, baserunning or fundamentals, they micro-managed every player to hit a certain way or play a certain position that they were unable to master, were mismanaged, fail to create a favorable atmosphere with their players that if they put in the work & show promise, they get a legit chance to make the MLB. Yes, the players were disappointing in general, but was it their fault? Were they the ones who deserved to get the axe?

[old nurse]

8 hours ago, USAFChief said:

One small sliver of hope: I now consider it very unlikely that Baldelli survives this collapse.

 

The architects of the team have  not gone anywhere. Several have been promoted. To think Baldelli is going anywhere is ignoring these same architects gave him the extension. The only reason they would fire him is if he criticized the acquisitions. He has not done that. For Baldwin to go anywhere Jim Pohlad would have to fire the whole organization., including Joe.  That is not happening until maybe after the next CBA is done. 

[Woof Bronzer]

9 hours ago, USAFChief said:

One small sliver of hope: I now consider it very unlikely that Baldelli survives this collapse.

 

I think things are going exactly according to the Pohlad plan (recall Joey P call it "the best possible outcome".)  They wanted this, and Rocco is being a good soldier by facilitating it.  The on the field plan for the next couple years is going to be running low payrolls and losing.  It doesn't take any special managerial talent to do that.  Why would they fire a guy who is doing exactly what they asked and delivering the results they want?

[Rod Carews Birthday]

“It's a bleak time. Watching the Minnesota Twins, the worst team in MLB since the All-Star break, get their brains beat in by horrible competition, with a roster that offers little hope of improving enough to be competent next year — that's really all I can bring myself to think about. I appreciate that the people reading this column still care. I myself will be following this team to the bitter end. But aside from us sickos, the Twins are making it extremely difficult for anyone to care and invest their energy, time, or money. “

This.   And yet, there are folks who insist that if only we trade Lopez and Ryan we will magically resurrect into a contender by 2028.  The BEST we can hope for is to replace them with equals — if we make great trades.  The worst seems to be what we have done with the bullpen.  This team is almost unwatchable right now and I’m not seeing enough immediate help coming to make a big difference — and we will need much more without our two best pitchers. 

[PDX Twin]

Bring on relegation! Nothing more pathetic than bad teams with nothing for which to play. In the EPL, battles between the teams at the bottom fighting relegation are often spirited, with both sides going all out to win.

[tony&rodney]

5 hours ago, Peter said:

4-2 this week. And yes I’ll always support the twins no matter what win or lose!!!! lol on trading Lopez/ryan or them moving!!! Nor is Rocco/falvey getting fired Not happening!!! Next 2-3 year will be rebuilding but as long as they competitive I’m fine with that!!! Twins aren’t as bad as all of you make them out to be!!!

Most of the people on Twins Daily are hardcore Twins fans. Many of us went to or listened to that first Twins game in 1961. A number of us have had or have season tickets. We will continue to follow the Twins.

The reality at this time and going forward into 2026 is that the Minnesota Twins are the worst team in MLB. That can and will continue to be quantified. The team is not competitive in many games at this point. They are actually worse than most people make them out to be right now.

There is, however, always hope for the future and I would suggest most of us have hope. We see a competitive team coming along in different fashions. That is a given and should also be easily understood. Some see a number of current Twins still around, a core leading the team to respectability. Others feel a large scale change is inevitable due to a need for more athleticism. I'm hoping for as many as seven different position players in next year's starting lineup. These discussions will occur over the winter.

The Pohlads disinterest in baseball is harmful because they seem to not care how their business unfolds. The largest improvement that can be made in the organization that relates directly to the roster and the play on the field will be the removal of Falvey and a new hire to direct the club. That can happen under Pohlad ownership although this is doubtful and ultimately lengthens any rebuild. Surely a change in ownership would bring new baseball leadership and renewed hope from diehard Twins fans. 

The Twins are not moving. The Twins Cities is a vibrant financial area and the Twins current financial issues pale in comparison to Pittsburgh, Miami, Tampa, and Sacramento. The Twins are basically right there at this time with Cleveland, Washington D.C., Baltimore, and Kansas City. The Pohlad Era will close.

Lastly, it is impossible to guess what happens this coming winter. Nobody should be surprised by any trades or transactions. There is such a wide range of outcomes possible that I would suggest we all have some fun with our guesses and not get too worried about those deals that totally piss us off. All things shall pass.

[ashbury]

3 hours ago, old nurse said:

The only reason they would fire him is if he criticized the acquisitions. He has not done that. 

We have no idea what's been said behind closed doors.  It's true that he'd be fired for being openly insubordinate.  "Why do I play Outman?  Ask the FO why they traded for an Out Man" would be just an indirect way of saying "I quit but I still want my money."

There is a happy medium (unhappy for many observers), where Rocco isn't fired per se but promoted to the front office.  I mean, Falvey's always said things like Rocco is a partner in everything they plan and do.  My scenario of course assumes Rocco is ready to put aside on-field duties, permanently or even just for a time.  Maybe he'd prefer to be someone's bench coach elsewhere. and just accept a contract buyout. *shrug*  But we'll get someone just like Rocco as a replacement - a promotion for Tingler, or someone "new" brought in with different facial hair or maybe more hair on top of his cranium but the same philosophies as Falvey.

[TheLeviathan]

5 hours ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

“It's a bleak time. Watching the Minnesota Twins, the worst team in MLB since the All-Star break, get their brains beat in by horrible competition, with a roster that offers little hope of improving enough to be competent next year — that's really all I can bring myself to think about. I appreciate that the people reading this column still care. I myself will be following this team to the bitter end. But aside from us sickos, the Twins are making it extremely difficult for anyone to care and invest their energy, time, or money. “

This.   And yet, there are folks who insist that if only we trade Lopez and Ryan we will magically resurrect into a contender by 2028.  The BEST we can hope for is to replace them with equals — if we make great trades.  The worst seems to be what we have done with the bullpen.  This team is almost unwatchable right now and I’m not seeing enough immediate help coming to make a big difference — and we will need much more without our two best pitchers. 

I know this sounds logical, but it is missing key elements that are crucial to evaluating future courses of action:

2028 is three years from now.  In baseball, that is a very long period of time.  Assuming 2025 Lopez/Ryan is a 1:1 swap in 2028 is dangerous.  To show but a few examples....at this time three years ago Jose Miranda, Gio Urshela, and Nick Gordon were all at an OPS+ over 110.  Devin Smeltzer was a 105 ERA+.  

Tyler Duffey was still a thing.  

When you make the decision to deal 2025 Joe Ryan to help your 2028 team, you have to bake in the reality that A) Joe Ryan may not even be a Twin at that point or B) May not be nearly the same player.  

None of that is to say we should deal Ryan or Lopez.  Or that we are on a fast track to 2028, but just to point out that some of this is a bit spurious in presentation.

[Mike Sixel]

Fangraphs has them as the second worst team in the sport.....

I'm baffled they acquired Outman, and now they refuse to move on, as always. 

[Markdumont25]

I've said this a few weeks in a row but here we go again... I would consider myself on the optimistic side of the spectrum, but I think it's really important to be clear about how bleak the situation currently is, if for no reason other than to make the best decisions moving forward. 

There's been talk of a retool and how we could be competitive next year. The team we're seeing now is going to be, by and large, what we're going to get next year and there's absolutely nothing about how they're playing right now that suggests we'll be anything beyond a cellar dweller. Obviously, as fans, our opinions are mostly irrelevant but being realistic about where we are as an organization is important right now. The main talk of the off-season is what we're doing with Pablo and Ryan. I think it'd be very foolish to keep either one of them when we show no signs of life and the next couple years are likely to be brutal no matter what. Just get what you can and try to be ready in 2028. Sucks, but I think it's the only responsible move right now.

[old nurse]

9 hours ago, ashbury said:

We have no idea what's been said behind closed doors.  It's true that he'd be fired for being openly insubordinate.  "Why do I play Outman?  Ask the FO why they traded for an Out Man" would be just an indirect way of saying "I quit but I still want my money."

There is a happy medium (unhappy for many observers), where Rocco isn't fired per se but promoted to the front office.  I mean, Falvey's always said things like Rocco is a partner in everything they plan and do.  My scenario of course assumes Rocco is ready to put aside on-field duties, permanently or even just for a time.  Maybe he'd prefer to be someone's bench coach elsewhere. and just accept a contract buyout. *shrug*  But we'll get someone just like Rocco as a replacement - a promotion for Tingler, or someone "new" brought in with different facial hair or maybe more hair on top of his cranium but the same philosophies as Falvey.

Rocco to front office would be like Deron Johnson and Dave St. Peter as senior advisors. Rocco is part of the plan. He excites the plan. Any manager this FO hires would be the same way. That is why it would be pointless to fire him.   The plan now seems to be play certain players as much as possible to see if you want them for next year. A whole lot of relievers have already been jettisoned.  Funderburk and Topa seem to be getting high leverage situations to see if they are a keeper.  Sands is not getting those chances. They appear to be confident with him 

[ashbury]

18 minutes ago, old nurse said:

Rocco to front office would be like Deron Johnson and Dave St. Peter as senior advisors. Rocco is part of the plan. He excites the plan. Any manager this FO hires would be the same way. That is why it would be pointless to fire him.  

Meet the new Rocco.  Same as the old Rocco.

[Rod Carews Birthday]

9 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

I know this sounds logical, but it is missing key elements that are crucial to evaluating future courses of action:

2028 is three years from now.  In baseball, that is a very long period of time.  Assuming 2025 Lopez/Ryan is a 1:1 swap in 2028 is dangerous.  To show but a few examples....at this time three years ago Jose Miranda, Gio Urshela, and Nick Gordon were all at an OPS+ over 110.  Devin Smeltzer was a 105 ERA+.  

Tyler Duffey was still a thing.  

When you make the decision to deal 2025 Joe Ryan to help your 2028 team, you have to bake in the reality that A) Joe Ryan may not even be a Twin at that point or B) May not be nearly the same player.  

None of that is to say we should deal Ryan or Lopez.  Or that we are on a fast track to 2028, but just to point out that some of this is a bit spurious in presentation.

You are quite correct that we don’t know any of these things for certain (but spurious? maybe not) but I am far less than confident that trade receipts from Ryan/Lopez, et al will ever be their equal (and not just as pitchers).  In the meantime we’ve made the team completely unwatchable for next year and possibly beyond.  The White Sox tore it all down a few years back and they are still a giant mess.  I would prefer to avoid that. 

Players change and I’m fine with that.  Fire sales get it all out the door any way you can, and perhaps a bit to haphazardly for my taste.  

[TheLeviathan]

13 hours ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

You are quite correct that we don’t know any of these things for certain (but spurious? maybe not) but I am far less than confident that trade receipts from Ryan/Lopez, et al will ever be their equal (and not just as pitchers).  In the meantime we’ve made the team completely unwatchable for next year and possibly beyond.  The White Sox tore it all down a few years back and they are still a giant mess.  I would prefer to avoid that. 

Players change and I’m fine with that.  Fire sales get it all out the door any way you can, and perhaps a bit to haphazardly for my taste.  

I don't think it's wrong to oppose a firesale, I just don't think the reasoning is completely sound.  Ultimately the most important question is: who do we think is on this team, helping them win in 2028?

If the team isn't going to cut a check for Ryan or Lopez, then the time to deal them is now.

[Rod Carews Birthday]

57 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

I don't think it's wrong to oppose a firesale, I just don't think the reasoning is completely sound.  Ultimately the most important question is: who do we think is on this team, helping them win in 2028?

If the team isn't going to cut a check for Ryan or Lopez, then the time to deal them is now.

Do you see no value in having them on the team in the next two years, fighting to at least keep the team relevant?  I don’t want to sink to the White Sox/Rockies level by completely tearing down in pursuit of a complete rebuild.  I would like the team to remain watchable, and hopefully a sale ensues, allowing for additional $$, possible extension(s), and more of a rebuild on the fly.  It’s way more fun to watch.  

Also, I don’t think it is silly at all to be skeptical that any comparable value will come out of trading one or both of them.  That has probably happened at least as often as getting comparable (future of course) value.  You’re right in that we have no guarantee of health or effectiveness for either Ryan or Lopez.  However, I would rather bet on them than two random prospects from the system.  There are many — SWR, Zebby, Festa, Taj, Abel, Raya, Prielipp, Dasan, etc.  Who do you think will become as good as Ryan/Lopez out of that group?  I would be pretty thrilled if just one of them did, let alone two.  But YMMV. 

[TheLeviathan]

4 minutes ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

Do you see no value in having them on the team in the next two years, fighting to at least keep the team relevant?  I don’t want to sink to the White Sox/Rockies level by completely tearing down in pursuit of a complete rebuild.  I would like the team to remain watchable, and hopefully a sale ensues, allowing for additional $$, possible extension(s), and more of a rebuild on the fly.  It’s way more fun to watch.  

Also, I don’t think it is silly at all to be skeptical that any comparable value will come out of trading one or both of them.  That has probably happened at least as often as getting comparable (future of course) value.  You’re right in that we have no guarantee of health or effectiveness for either Ryan or Lopez.  However, I would rather bet on them than two random prospects from the system.  There are many — SWR, Zebby, Festa, Taj, Abel, Raya, Prielipp, Dasan, etc.  Who do you think will become as good as Ryan/Lopez out of that group?  I would be pretty thrilled if just one of them did, let alone two.  But YMMV. 

Honestly?  No.  If we're going to be a 60-65 win team, I don't care for an extra 4-5 wins at the expense of peak trade value.  

We got Joe Ryan by not clutching on to Cruz and his leadership/presence.  We got Lopez by selling high on Arraez.  Keeping them to essentially put lipstick on a pig in 2026 doesn't interest me at all.  Zero.  Zilch.

Now....if I were in charge and the Pohlads were gone?  I'd deal Lopez, extend Ryan, and invest in this team.  Given the low likelihood of that happening, however, I think shopping them both is the only reasonable thing to do.

[Rod Carews Birthday]

1 hour ago, TheLeviathan said:

Honestly?  No.  If we're going to be a 60-65 win team, I don't care for an extra 4-5 wins at the expense of peak trade value.  

We got Joe Ryan by not clutching on to Cruz and his leadership/presence.  We got Lopez by selling high on Arraez.  Keeping them to essentially put lipstick on a pig in 2026 doesn't interest me at all.  Zero.  Zilch.

Now....if I were in charge and the Pohlads were gone?  I'd deal Lopez, extend Ryan, and invest in this team.  Given the low likelihood of that happening, however, I think shopping them both is the only reasonable thing to do.

This is where we disagree.  I think that the measurable part of having those pitchers on the team is probably 5 wins or so, but I think the intangibles of having an A level pitcher take the mound about 40% of the time are greater than that.  I also think that the team will get sold, making at least one extension possible if not likely. 

We dealt Cruz as an impending free agent and Arraez from an area of strength at the time (hitting).  Trading Lopez and Ryan would essentially be trading what little of value we still possess.  

So much ink has been spilled about how the sell off and potential further sell off will make us competitive again in 2028.  Why?  In a rose colored glasses scenario, next year’s team is a 100 loss team.  2027 is still a 90 loss team.  So, in a best case scenario we are back to being a .500 team in 2028 — or put more succinctly, where we were before this whole thing started and we started dumping talent.  In the meantime, the next two years are going to be really bad. Believe me, I’m all for this working perfectly. I just don’t see it.

The White Sox tore it all down and have been terrible for three years with no end in sight.  The Colorado Rockies have been terrible for four years with no end in sight. The Pirates rebuild consisted of 3 terrible years and 3 years in the 70”s for wins.   The Detroit Tigers were terrible for three years and had three years in the 70’s for wins before finally being good the last two (and they haven’t won anything but a division).  It is apparent that we think differently, but I would rather not live through several years of 90-110 losses.  It just takes a lot longer than a couple of down years and I think that people are WAY too optimistic about what the future will hold.