Brooks Lee and the Danger of Falling Into the Jose Miranda Trap

[jmlease1]

40 minutes ago, bunsen82 said:

Say what you will,  he has a +.5 WAR since the trade deadline (-.7, now at -.2).   All he needs to do is continue to provide solid defense which he is,  continue to walk more which he has been doing and then taking advantage of the mistakes.  The increased power is drastically changing his profile.  A .260/.340/.400 shortstop with good to adequate defense that can also become a utility player is a very valuable commodity.  Lee continues to evolve,  there is no reason to  not to continue to let him develop.  

I agree. If he can continue to improve and put up that kind of line, he'll be more than capable of holding down SS until Culpepper is ready...and more importantly could make him earn the job rather than get it handed to him. Lee has a ways to go, and has got to sharpen up his approach at the plate to control the strike zone rather than let it control him, but he's starting to show he can punish a pitcher who hangs one, which is a good sign.

But let's talk again when he gets that OBP above .300 and the SLG closer to .400...

[NYCTK]

41 minutes ago, bunsen82 said:

Say what you will,  he has a +.5 WAR since the trade deadline (-.7, now at -.2).   All he needs to do is continue to provide solid defense which he is,  continue to walk more which he has been doing and then taking advantage of the mistakes.  The increased power is drastically changing his profile.  A .260/.340/.400 shortstop with good to adequate defense that can also become a utility player is a very valuable commodity.  Lee continues to evolve,  there is no reason to  not to continue to let him develop.  

Positive in the fWAR calculation as well. 

He's good enough to hold it down next year. But I'd make sure to have a reliable MIF on the bench. And then, hopefully Culpepper eventually takes his job and either pushes him to 2B/3B and maybe Lewis to 1B or Keaschall to LF. Or maybe it becomes clear he's just a decent IF that should be a bench role player regardless. 

He can still be valuable. He's not a lost cause like Austin Martin yet. 

[Western SD Fan]

I guess this is the joy of following a team in a rebuild.  I was listening to some pundits this morning that after one bad game in the field, they were all clamoring that Keaschall is immediately removed from playing second and moved to first or the outfield.  

I think it's important to consider that Lee now fixated on playing one position (SS) rather than three positions will have the additional effect of helping him focus on his batting.  If we can see these issues creeping in with the smattering of metrics that we have available, I find it hard to believe that the coaches do not see the same thing and hopefully have a plan to work with him through the end of the season and maybe give him things to work on in the offseason.  Which also makes me channel a 90s song, "Where Have All the Coaches (Cowboys) Gone"?  I'm reminded of the conversation that Corey Koskie had in the TV booth on Sunday where TK basically told him that he was unplayable in the field.  Koskie basically harangued a coach to fungo bat him to death to improve his defense so he could at least play a passable 3B.  I think it worked out for Koskie.  Do the current coaches (and manager leading them) not have the skills, time, or patience to work with these younger players?  Do the players not have the mental fortitude to overcome adversity and adjust to the majors?  

I'm hoping that a full youth movement will finally focus these coaches on trying to improve the skills of the younger players and we can see what these players can accomplish.  Since we are not chasing any playoffs for the foreseeable future, we have time on our hands to develop these players.  Provided that this group of coaches + manager is up to the task.  

[Greglw3]

56 minutes ago, jmlease1 said:

Hilarious. Wallner has an OPS+ of 116 in a down season for him (His career OPS+ is 131). Brooks Lee has an OPS+ of 82.

Wallner is nowhere near Miranda as a black hole, but they're also completely different hitters. Miranda had lost all inklings of power last time he was up so his plate coverage generated nothing but weak contact. It's why this article is appropriate, because right now Lee has been generating too much weak contact especially when he chases.

For Lee to be a successful hitter he needs to find a renewed plate discipline and stop swinging at everything. An OBP under .300 will simply not do. Lee has been very very streaky this season. Started the year looking good, then had a dreadful May. Bounced back for a very nice June...and followed that up with a horrific July. August hasn't exactly been good, but he's shown some signs of life in the past 2 weeks.

In the minors Lee showed very good contact skills, decent pop, and acceptable patience. In MLB, the contact skills haven't been producing hits, because he's chasing pitches he can't do much with. His patience has been reduced and the pop has been very inconsistent

Not so hilarious if you think the totally biased statistic toward power hitters is more indicative of the offensive value of Lee vs. Wallner. I’ll never go for a .211 hitter. Surest way to losing there is. By your theory, Joey Gallo’s .177, nearly 50% strikeout season was worth more than Lee’s 2025. 

I agree about the chasing. But I think Lee will work through it and improve. If Wallner figures it out, he’s got a chance to be a big asset.

I grew up on strong offensive Twins teams, Oliva, Allison, Tovar, Carew, Killebrew, Steve Braun, Jim Holt, Larry Hisle, Lyman Bostock, Bobby Darwin, Roy Smalley, Mickey Hatcher. That’s why I have no patience for hitters with Jake Cave, Max Kepler, Matt Wallner, Joey Gallo batting averages. I like Clemens but quite sadly, a .210 batting average is not going to make it.

I think the future is bright. I like Jenkins, Gonzalez, Hendry Mendez for the Wind Surge who is hitting .375 since joining them, Kyler Fedko and Culpepper. I think 70% Lewis will be a force. Allen Roden has the right resume and showed flashes of  a multi tool player, but an incomplete for now

Pitching is the key to winning but a team can negate that with a hapless offense filled with .150, .198, .210 and .220 batting averages. Those spots need to be corrected if at all possible. Falvey’s done a less than stellar job of that but I think they could well be on the precipice of a good offense.

[djvang]

6 hours ago, P Meyer said:

Bruh. More Brooks Lee criticism. Why? He is 4th on the team in BA. 2nd in ABs. 4th in HRs. 2nd in RBIs. Could he be better? Absolutely. Does that mean he is not currently one of the highest performing Twins on the current roster? Absolutely not. Is his playing time holding a better player back? Absolutely not. 

 

I know it's about content, and I applaud the contributors on this site, but it just seems like an odd target at this moment.

Being one of the highest performing Twins isn't a very high standard. 

[Derojo]

I am hoping Lee will be a good hitting 2nd baseman, and back up to Culpepper at SS. He's not fast enough to start at short. Lewis has improved, but he's not good enough. Wallner and Larnach are second string. It's a great article on Lee, as it could go either way; up, or down and eventually out. As for Julien, I can't remember another player who doesn't swing at obvious third strikes. Totally in his head weird stuff going on.

[Wedman13]

1 hour ago, Western SD Fan said:

I guess this is the joy of following a team in a rebuild.  I was listening to some pundits this morning that after one bad game in the field, they were all clamoring that Keaschall is immediately removed from playing second and moved to first or the outfield.  

I think it's important to consider that Lee now fixated on playing one position (SS) rather than three positions will have the additional effect of helping him focus on his batting.  If we can see these issues creeping in with the smattering of metrics that we have available, I find it hard to believe that the coaches do not see the same thing and hopefully have a plan to work with him through the end of the season and maybe give him things to work on in the offseason.  Which also makes me channel a 90s song, "Where Have All the Coaches (Cowboys) Gone"?  I'm reminded of the conversation that Corey Koskie had in the TV booth on Sunday where TK basically told him that he was unplayable in the field.  Koskie basically harangued a coach to fungo bat him to death to improve his defense so he could at least play a passable 3B.  I think it worked out for Koskie.  Do the current coaches (and manager leading them) not have the skills, time, or patience to work with these younger players?  Do the players not have the mental fortitude to overcome adversity and adjust to the majors?  

I'm hoping that a full youth movement will finally focus these coaches on trying to improve the skills of the younger players and we can see what these players can accomplish.  Since we are not chasing any playoffs for the foreseeable future, we have time on our hands to develop these players.  Provided that this group of coaches + manager is up to the task.  

Agree fully.  All in on the rebuild, or all out.  First place I'd start are our corner outfielders.  Unwatchable.  Get Gonzales,/Jenkins/E-Rod up there next year and keep one (or neither) of Larnach or Wallner for a bench/DH role.

Regarding Lee, he deserves his 1k at bats at a consistent defensive position before being tossed aside.  But having said that, I thought it was a really thought provoking article that wasn't trashing Lee, but making a valid and concerning comparison  to Miranda.  Well done!

[AceWrigley]

39 minutes ago, Derojo said:

I am hoping Lee will be a good hitting 2nd baseman, and back up to Culpepper at SS. He's not fast enough to start at short.

Cal Ripken called to say hi.

[old nurse]

7 hours ago, P Meyer said:

Bruh. More Brooks Lee criticism. Why? He is 4th on the team in BA. 2nd in ABs. 4th in HRs. 2nd in RBIs. Could he be better? Absolutely. Does that mean he is not currently one of the highest performing Twins on the current roster? Absolutely not. Is his playing time holding a better player back? Absolutely not. 

 

I know it's about content, and I applaud the contributors on this site, but it just seems like an odd target at this moment.

Not to be mean but. They traded away a lot of the people that were higher than him on the rankings of yor statistical categories. 

[old nurse]

4 hours ago, In My La Z boy said:

Now you are conflating rich kids with coaches kids. Carl Pohlad was a banker not a coach. I made an obvious point. You are being argumentative as young people like to do these days. Good luck young man 👍 

Nor are the Twins are a bank, though some people think they use the Twins as an ATM

[old nurse]

One would think that if you are complaining about he is swinging at pitcher’s pitched and low barrel, hard contact  and needs to tighten up his zone one should be offering up which pitches they hit and where the poor contact is at.  

[darin617]

12 hours ago, P Meyer said:

Bruh. More Brooks Lee criticism. Why? He is 4th on the team in BA. 2nd in ABs. 4th in HRs. 2nd in RBIs. Could he be better? Absolutely. Does that mean he is not currently one of the highest performing Twins on the current roster? Absolutely not. Is his playing time holding a better player back? Absolutely not. 

 

I know it's about content, and I applaud the contributors on this site, but it just seems like an odd target at this moment.

Well said. The big thing about Lee since August 1st he actually knows where he is playing every day. I said this and people said that it doesn't matter, which I clearly disagree with. With Lee being the starting shortstop he knows what he needs to work on and focus on that alone. It also will help him at the plate since his head is clear knowing he's in the lineup every day at short.

[bunsen82]

7 hours ago, darin617 said:

Well said. The big thing about Lee since August 1st he actually knows where he is playing every day. I said this and people said that it doesn't matter, which I clearly disagree with. With Lee being the starting shortstop he knows what he needs to work on and focus on that alone. It also will help him at the plate since his head is clear knowing he's in the lineup every day at short.

We had Lee playing 3 defensive positions and switch hitting. It definitely seemed to overwhelm him a bit.  In July you could just tell he had lost confidence at the plate.  I’ve seen steady improvement at being more selective.  The real question is the power real. The oppo home run from the right side was impressive.  Anyone can pull a home run, you start punishing outside plate pitches to the opposite field and it’s a game changer.  Being a coaches son and his overall approach we know he will continue to put in the work to get better.  There are 3 differences between Miranda and Lee. Lee plays better defense, Lee has been healthier, and his mental fortitude is better. The defense and health has allowed Lee to continue to get at bats and continue to get better.  The mental aspect has helped him come back even after rough May and July.  

[jmlease1]

13 hours ago, Greglw3 said:

Not so hilarious if you think the totally biased statistic toward power hitters is more indicative of the offensive value of Lee vs. Wallner. I’ll never go for a .211 hitter. Surest way to losing there is. By your theory, Joey Gallo’s .177, nearly 50% strikeout season was worth more than Lee’s 2025. 

I agree about the chasing. But I think Lee will work through it and improve. If Wallner figures it out, he’s got a chance to be a big asset.

I grew up on strong offensive Twins teams, Oliva, Allison, Tovar, Carew, Killebrew, Steve Braun, Jim Holt, Larry Hisle, Lyman Bostock, Bobby Darwin, Roy Smalley, Mickey Hatcher. That’s why I have no patience for hitters with Jake Cave, Max Kepler, Matt Wallner, Joey Gallo batting averages. I like Clemens but quite sadly, a .210 batting average is not going to make it.

I think the future is bright. I like Jenkins, Gonzalez, Hendry Mendez for the Wind Surge who is hitting .375 since joining them, Kyler Fedko and Culpepper. I think 70% Lewis will be a force. Allen Roden has the right resume and showed flashes of  a multi tool player, but an incomplete for now

Pitching is the key to winning but a team can negate that with a hapless offense filled with .150, .198, .210 and .220 batting averages. Those spots need to be corrected if at all possible. Falvey’s done a less than stellar job of that but I think they could well be on the precipice of a good offense.

It's "biased" towards power hitters because hitting for power is one of the most effective ways to score runs. Avoiding outs and hitting for power is the most consistent way to generate offense. No one was happy with Gallo's 2023 season, especially because after a hot start he hit terribly, so it was months of poor performance. The overall production for the year was still league average, but his slump after Mar/Apr made him nearly unplayable. Which is why you don't just look at one stat. But Wallner isn't having a season like Gallo's 2023: he's substantially better and has been doing a better job at avoiding outs than Lee, which is part of where Lee has been falling down.

I'm not out on Lee by any means, but he has to do more to avoid outs. He either needs to be able to get a lot more hits or a increase his walk totals, because a .288 OBP simply isn't going to get it done. He's been very inconsistent at the plate this season, with horrific slumps in May and July. 

Nobody wants an offense where everyone has a BA under .220, but there's room for a guy like Wallner who has massive power and is a dangerous hitter who also gets himself on base by knowing the strike zone. Right now Wallner has 35 points of OBP on Lee and that matters. The handful of extra singles Lee gets isn't enough to make up for all the extra walks Wallner gets. Wallner avoids more outs than Lee, even with a low BA.

The Wallner slander must stop.

[Whitey333]

Lee is doing just fine.  Why all the unnecessary scrutiny and negativity when offensively he is one of the team leaders?  Sure he needs to improve.  I think he will.  Anyone watch Royce Lewis flailing away at the plate throughout his career?  And what king of cybernetic gobble de gook keeps Mickey Gasper on the Twins roster?

[Trov]

I think his next step will be to have a better plan at the plate when he goes up there.   Where he seems to struggle the most is when he looks like he has no plan at all and he takes half swings at pitches on the edges or out of the zone.  I think this year he was trying to get his swing right again, now he just needs to have a better plan up there.  

That is something I have been impressed with Keashal  when I have seen him hit.  He is less see ball hit ball, but has a real idea of what he is looking for a plan to execute it.

[Wedman13]

2 hours ago, jmlease1 said:

It's "biased" towards power hitters because hitting for power is one of the most effective ways to score runs. Avoiding outs and hitting for power is the most consistent way to generate offense. No one was happy with Gallo's 2023 season, especially because after a hot start he hit terribly, so it was months of poor performance. The overall production for the year was still league average, but his slump after Mar/Apr made him nearly unplayable. Which is why you don't just look at one stat. But Wallner isn't having a season like Gallo's 2023: he's substantially better and has been doing a better job at avoiding outs than Lee, which is part of where Lee has been falling down.

I'm not out on Lee by any means, but he has to do more to avoid outs. He either needs to be able to get a lot more hits or a increase his walk totals, because a .288 OBP simply isn't going to get it done. He's been very inconsistent at the plate this season, with horrific slumps in May and July. 

Nobody wants an offense where everyone has a BA under .220, but there's room for a guy like Wallner who has massive power and is a dangerous hitter who also gets himself on base by knowing the strike zone. Right now Wallner has 35 points of OBP on Lee and that matters. The handful of extra singles Lee gets isn't enough to make up for all the extra walks Wallner gets. Wallner avoids more outs than Lee, even with a low BA.

The Wallner slander must stop.

A really odd point.  Saying how much Lee must improve at the plate as a 24 yr old shortstop then saying the Wallner slander must stop because he is slightly better at the plate based on your chosen metric... as an almost 28 yr old, 4th year right fielder.  Maybe I'm old school but flirting with the Mendoza line used to be a bad thing.

he's not the only one, but Wallner has let the team and fans down this year.  He, Buxton, Correa, Lewis, Larnach and Jeffers were counted on this year for the team to thrive.  He failed and has been awful.

[jmlease1]

3 minutes ago, Wedman13 said:

A really odd point.  Saying how much Lee must improve at the plate as a 24 yr old shortstop then saying the Wallner slander must stop because he is slightly better at the plate based on your chosen metric... as an almost 28 yr old, 4th year right fielder.  Maybe I'm old school but flirting with the Mendoza line used to be a bad thing.

he's not the only one, but Wallner has let the team and fans down this year.  He, Buxton, Correa, Lewis, Larnach and Jeffers were counted on this year for the team to thrive.  He failed and has been awful.

Wallner isn't slightly better at the plate, though. He's better at the plate than Lee by every hitting metric except batting average, which is the hill you've chosen to die on, apparently. Flirting with the Mendoza Line isn't good, but is tolerable when you take the number of walks that Wallner has. He's been better than Correa, Larnach, Lewis, France, Lee, Julien, Castro... I'm not going to say he's been good enough, because it's been a down season for him where he hasn't been as impactful as he has before, but to say he failed seems only viable in the context of the entire team failing this season.

I get it: you hate Wallner's game. You don't want to have low BA/high K players on the team, regardless of anything else. But you're judging him on style, not actual performance.

Lee has to improve at the plate, not because he's 24 or a SS, but because he's not producing enough. You simply can't have an OBP below .300 and stick in an MLB lineup. Andrelton Simmons was one of the best defensive SS in MLB, won 4 Gold Gloves and probably deserved more, but look at how fast he was out of the league once his offense went from just bad to terrible. And Brooks Lee is no Simmons on defense.

I still like Brooks Lee as a player, but I'm not blind to his flaws. He needs to stop swinging at everything and be more selective at the plate. He's shown some improvement this season, and has looked better lately, but he need to keep improving, because what we're getting right now isn't enough for a starter, even at SS.

[P Meyer]

18 hours ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

 So you’re saying that his numbers compare well with the worst numbers of a bunch of guys who are having terrible seasons?  You’re correct.  He only has 500+ at bats, but this should be the time when he figures it out.  While he is a better defensive player, in what way is he a better offensive player than Eddie Julien?  

I am saying that there are numerous examples of prospects who turned out to be good MLB players that had similar stats as Brooks Lee has this year at a similar career at bat total. I'm not saying Brooks Lee will get better, but it is about 600 ABs too early to start trying to have this convo IMO.

[P Meyer]

15 hours ago, old nurse said:

Not to be mean but. They traded away a lot of the people that were higher than him on the rankings of yor statistical categories. 

I think that is fair, but IMO if I am critiquing the team, I can only critique the players currently on it.

[bunsen82]

4 hours ago, jmlease1 said:

I'm not out on Lee by any means, but he has to do more to avoid outs. He either needs to be able to get a lot more hits or a increase his walk totals, because a .288 OBP simply isn't going to get it done. He's been very inconsistent at the plate this season, with horrific slumps in May and July. 

I will agree,  Brooks Lee has had 2 very bad months of poor performance.  The other is the fact he does so much better at home games than away.   Target Field is considered neutral yet Lee is hitting (baseball reference doesn't have the last 3 games)  .256/.301/.412.       His last 30 day splits is .270/.312/.392.    I said earlier Lee needs to shoot for .270/.340/.400.  In retrospect I think he needs to have the OBP about .320.  But those home splits and last 30 days splits are beyond excellent.   Even his 2024 home splits were excellent .287/.337/.391.    He almost treats Target field as Coors field.   

 

What does it tell me,  it tells me Brooks Lee does much better when he feels comfortable and is in a familiar pattern.   Brooks for whatever reason seems to do better when playing 3rd base or shortstop.   Also playing at home.  He played a majority of the games in the minors at that 2 positions.  He feels comfortable playing defensively there so then can put more attention and focus into hitting.   He continues to improve.  Moving forward,  we need to see him continue to perform on road trips.  he needs to improve his consistency.  Month to month and beginning performing better on the road.  

[saviking]

Always amazes me how a player can know his weakness in chasing pitches and yet finds it hard to make the mental adjustment. 

But I haven't given up on Lee. I think he will work it out .. 

[stringer bell]

On 8/20/2025 at 12:14 PM, Nshore said:

As for Miranda, he suffered a very serious HBP to the helmet just as he seemed to be taking off as a hitter.  It seems to have effected him ever since.  These incidents still seem to be viewed more from a 1950's perspective than a modern view in a lot of cases.

Agree about the beaning. Miranda was back in a couple of days, but he quit hitting from about that point. Getting hit is one thing, getting hit in the head is another. 

Miranda also had a higher bar for his production since he is a corner infielder and below average at that. If Lee can be acceptable to average at shortstop and hit like he has this season, he is a second division starting shortstop. I hope for more from him, but his floor is a player with some value. 

[In My La Z boy]

22 hours ago, NYCTK said:

In my mind, a coach's son is no less likely to be a spoiled idiot lacking work ethic or industry specific IQ than anyone else. 

And this is pretty obvious to anyone that's played with a coach's son, or done business with the boss's son. 

So, yeah, I really, truly don't care about his dad's profession. Nor should anyone else. 

I ran the business for 27 years that my father started in 1969. Now my son runs it. I have 5 grandson's I hope to see in the businesses someday. We'll disagree about this topic and that's ok.

[Bodie]

On 8/20/2025 at 1:36 PM, Rod Carews Birthday said:

I guess I’m in the minority, but I think that this is exactly the kind of article that needs to be written about Brooks Lee — one with some analysis that can help us understand what his issues are.  If Brooks Lee can’t figure out how to be an above average hitter it puts pressure on him to be an Andrelton Simmons type defender — which is really hard for a guy who is as slow as he is.  

I’ve long been amazed at the love for Brooks Lee. The hype has been out of control since we drafted him.  When he was drafted we were told that he didn’t have as high a ceiling as others in his draft class but that he was as close to a sure thing as there could be because he had such a high floor.  Well. . . . his floor seems to be below average major league hitter with very below average foot speed.  In my world, Brooks Lee needs to get the bat going sooner, not later.  At this point, Eddie Julien’s career numbers are substantially better than Brooks Lee’s career numbers (OPS+76 for Lee vs. 98 for Julien).  

And only an abject,  legally certified moron, would compare a baseball player to... well, Eddie Julien. 

[RpR]

7 hours ago, stringer bell said:

Agree about the beaning. Miranda was back in a couple of days, but he quit hitting from about that point. Getting hit is one thing, getting hit in the head is another. 

It turned Jimmie Hall from a well above player to one below average.

[Rod Carews Birthday]

2 hours ago, Bodie said:

And only an abject,  legally certified moron, would compare a baseball player to... well, Eddie Julien. 

?

Really?  

[Greglw3]

14 hours ago, jmlease1 said:

It's "biased" towards power hitters because hitting for power is one of the most effective ways to score runs. Avoiding outs and hitting for power is the most consistent way to generate offense. No one was happy with Gallo's 2023 season, especially because after a hot start he hit terribly, so it was months of poor performance. The overall production for the year was still league average, but his slump after Mar/Apr made him nearly unplayable. Which is why you don't just look at one stat. But Wallner isn't having a season like Gallo's 2023: he's substantially better and has been doing a better job at avoiding outs than Lee, which is part of where Lee has been falling down.

I'm not out on Lee by any means, but he has to do more to avoid outs. He either needs to be able to get a lot more hits or a increase his walk totals, because a .288 OBP simply isn't going to get it done. He's been very inconsistent at the plate this season, with horrific slumps in May and July. 

Nobody wants an offense where everyone has a BA under .220, but there's room for a guy like Wallner who has massive power and is a dangerous hitter who also gets himself on base by knowing the strike zone. Right now Wallner has 35 points of OBP on Lee and that matters. The handful of extra singles Lee gets isn't enough to make up for all the extra walks Wallner gets. Wallner avoids more outs than Lee, even with a low BA.

The Wallner slander must stop.

You can have the player with 16 HR, 28 RBIs and routinely swings and misses at 95 mph fastballs. You say outs should not be wasted but by sending a .208 hitter to the plate you’re giving the other team an automatic out almost 80% of the time. What do you think it means that Brooks Lee has a 53-28 RBI advantage over Wallner (when Wallner should be driving in runs)?

As Justin Morneau often says, the object of the game is to score more runs and somebody has to drive them in. Clearly some players approach is much better than others. It’s a skill with an approach that needs to be used and it’s not relentlessly striking out and hitting .209.

Honestly, Matt Wallner should not be in the Major Leagues right now. Even his home runs are much less on the clutch side than even his fellow .209 hitter Kody Clemens, who has a knack for driving in runs and makes contact with 95 mph fastballs. I’d replace him with Fedko or Gonzalez, even Walker Jenkins who, in truth is probably ready now just as Gaetti, Bush, Laudner, Hrbek were all ready when called up from A and AA in early 80s.

[RpR]

15 hours ago, jmlease1 said:

It's "biased" towards power hitters because hitting for power is one of the most effective ways to score runs. Avoiding outs and hitting for power is the most consistent way to generate offense. No one was happy with Gallo's 2023 season, especially because after a hot start he hit terribly, so it was months of poor performance. The overall production for the year was still league average, but his slump after Mar/Apr made him nearly unplayable. Which is why you don't just look at one stat. But Wallner isn't having a season like Gallo's 2023: he's substantially better and has been doing a better job at avoiding outs than Lee, which is part of where Lee has been falling down.

I'm not out on Lee by any means, but he has to do more to avoid outs. He either needs to be able to get a lot more hits or a increase his walk totals, because a .288 OBP simply isn't going to get it done. He's been very inconsistent at the plate this season, with horrific slumps in May and July. 

Nobody wants an offense where everyone has a BA under .220, but there's room for a guy like Wallner who has massive power and is a dangerous hitter who also gets himself on base by knowing the strike zone. Right now Wallner has 35 points of OBP on Lee and that matters. The handful of extra singles Lee gets isn't enough to make up for all the extra walks Wallner gets. Wallner avoids more outs than Lee, even with a low BA.

The Wallner slander must stop.

Lee has played in 100 fewer games than Wallner,  one cannot know what the next 100 will bring.

Wallner's bat following the decline like Joey Gallo without Joey Gallo's far superior fielding glove, but at this point, Wallner's glove is improving to a degree, Lee's glove is going the other direction.

Being an infielder, Lee has a steeper hill to climb, so he had better hit well enough to over come his glove, ala Polanco.

[jmlease1]

9 hours ago, Greglw3 said:

You can have the player with 16 HR, 28 RBIs and routinely swings and misses at 95 mph fastballs. You say outs should not be wasted but by sending a .208 hitter to the plate you’re giving the other team an automatic out almost 80% of the time. What do you think it means that Brooks Lee has a 53-28 RBI advantage over Wallner (when Wallner should be driving in runs)?

As Justin Morneau often says, the object of the game is to score more runs and somebody has to drive them in. Clearly some players approach is much better than others. It’s a skill with an approach that needs to be used and it’s not relentlessly striking out and hitting .209.

Honestly, Matt Wallner should not be in the Major Leagues right now. Even his home runs are much less on the clutch side than even his fellow .209 hitter Kody Clemens, who has a knack for driving in runs and makes contact with 95 mph fastballs. I’d replace him with Fedko or Gonzalez, even Walker Jenkins who, in truth is probably ready now just as Gaetti, Bush, Laudner, Hrbek were all ready when called up from A and AA in early 80s.

Your math is simply wrong. You don't use batting average to assess how often a player is going to make an out: that's what on-base percentage is for. Wallner's is .319. Brooks Lee (whom I still like) is at .292. Wallner isn';t going to make an out "almost 80% of the time": it's 68% of the time this season (his worst as a pro).

What does it mean that Lee has more RBI than Wallner? Primarily that he's had more runners on base when he's come to the plate, and that he's come to the plate more often. It's not a sign of some kind of mythical "clutchiness".

Maybe one of the young players in the minors will end up being better than Wallner, but it's a preposterous statement to say that Wallner should not be in MLB. You're ignoring his production at the plate because you don't like his style. Insistence that players that play a style you like are better than they are and players that you don't like are worse than they are is the worst kind of evaluation.

Lee has to avoid more outs. I'm sure he knows this. I don't care if he does it through more hits or more walks (preferably both) but it's been a big problem for him this season.