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Posted
Image courtesy of © Jerome Miron-Imagn Images

When the Twins and their fans woke up on Aug. 18, 2024, they sat in second place in the American League Central. They were just two games behind the (eventual) division-winning Guardians, with whom they had split a series the prior weekend. Minnesota had just taken three straight games from the (flailing) reigning World Series champion Texas Rangers and were looking for a four-game sweep.

It took five minutes to derail the Twins’ season. Pablo López pitched them to a comfortable four-run lead after six, but Jorge Alcala entered to pitch the seventh inning, and within five real-world minutes surrendered five runs on 19 pitches. The Rangers would walk off Jhoan Duran in the 10th inning.

At the time, it was a disappointing game, but it was just a game. In the months since, it has become understood as the beginning of the end.

The team that saved their season with 12 consecutive wins in April and May didn’t win more than two games in a row over the final seven weeks of the season, finishing on a 12-27 skid. They missed the playoffs, after projection systems gave them a better than 90% chance to make the postseason on that fateful August day.

Nothing worked down the stretch. Injuries, performance slippage, and fatigue were too much. There were rumblings of clubhouse discord. There was a lifelessness observable on the field, as the players lived the same disappointment that we watched. All they needed was a couple September wins against the Marlins to eke in anyway, but they couldn’t even do that.

Discourse about ownership reignited. After reducing payroll by tens of millions after the club’s first playoff win in nearly a decade, there was already a level of anger and vitriol among fans. But that went up another notch, becoming a go-to excuse, reason, or rationale amid the collapse. The team didn’t improve at the deadline. There were no meaningful reinforcements.

Conversely, the familiar complaints about players, coaches, and management rose again. The players had no fight, the manager was incompetent, the front office was too passive. Those complaints had waned as the team flourished at midseason. But as things got worse, the conversations became louder.

It was an important offseason, ripe for change. On the ownership side, the biggest change possible was announced—or at least, the first step of that change was. In October, the Pohlad family announced that they were exploring a sale of the team. The much-maligned billionaire family had very few defenders, and the announcement was a welcome one among Twins fans who dreamt of what the organization could look like with a more benevolent, unknown owner.

On the baseball side, that offseason ripe for change bore no fruit. Nominal change happened—Carlos Santana, Max Kepler, and Caleb Thielbar were out, Ty France, Harrison Bader, and Danny Coulombe were in. The same core that folded down the stretch in 2024 would be leading the charge in 2025. It wasn’t the worst decision ever, trusting that the team that sat at 70-53 on August 18 was more representative than the team that finished 12-27. But it was a gamble to dance with the girl that brung them. There was no great cleansing.

The front office itself was also held in place, other than promotions ,following the historic collapse. Everyone was gonna run it back.

In February, word leaked that that mysterious, benevolent owner was not just a hypothetical. Justin Ishbia—brother of Mat Ishbia, the owner of the Phoenix Suns—was strongly pursuing a purchase of the team. There was no guarantee as to how he would run the organization, but he would have been one of the richest owners in baseball; he’s a baseball fan; and his brother’s team had earned a reputation for spending to win. But as quickly as he had appeared, he disappeared, instead pursuing a purchase of the division rival White Sox, a team closer to home (and that he was already a minority owner of). And no individual or group seemed primed to fill his place.

Amid all of this uncertainty, the Twins didn’t spend. That’s part of the lack of turnover, too. It was part philosophy, it was part circumstance. But the Twins opened the season with the same team they ended the prior year with, more or less. And they opened the year with the same play, more or less, skidding through the opening weeks and requiring another two-week stretch of consecutive wins to drag themselves out of the bowels of MLB. This time, they couldn’t keep it up.

One of the most fascinating parts of the last year of Twins baseball is just how stale most of it was, and how that staleness accompanied so much change. Ownership was constantly in flux, but nothing truly changed. The team from the beginning of 2024 was more or less the same team as the beginning of 2025, but it played in a totally different way.

By July, it became clear that change was finally coming. The Twins would be sellers, at least at the deadline, though there were questions as to how much they would sell. They sold a lot. In order: Chris Paddack, Randy Dobnak, Jhoan Duran, Harrison Bader, Brock Stewart, Carlos Correa, Danny Coulombe, Willi Castro, Griffin Jax, Ty France, and Louie Varland. All shipped off to the highest bidder.

And suddenly, everything was changed. The team that spent so many months so stale was turned on its head. Eighteen players played in that August 18 game. Five are on the active roster today. After all those calls for a shakeup of the hitting core, the Twins traded… their whole bullpen. Much of that offensive core remains.

Of course, they did trade Carlos Correa—the leader of the team. He was unceremoniously shipped off to Houston, paying the Astros to take his contract off the books. The era was just… over. Only 22 of the 52 players who played a game for the Twins last season are still in the organization today, and that’s after one of the least active offseasons you could imagine.

And speaking of inaction, ownership. Just days ago, the announcement was released: The Pohlads would not be selling the team. Well, not all of it, anyway. Instead, limited partners will be buying a portion, but the family still has control. Twins fans went from being fed up with ownership, to hopeful for a new owner, to ecstatic about a real potential owner, to heartbroken, to grasping at any morsel of information, back to being fed up with ownership, or at least about three-quarters of it.

On the field, the staleness turned to rot. The cooks hope that cutting off part of the loaf makes the rest of the bread edible again.

This all started with a good team that seemed destined for the playoffs. How much different would we feel had that meltdown not happened? If, instead of being incensed, we were merely annoyed that the team could have gone a little farther with a little more investment? Instead of front office promotions following a complete self-destruction, what if they came after guiding a cheap and injury-riddled team into the playoffs? Instead of failing to fix what went wrong down the stretch, what if they merely banked on continual improvement and ran it back with a similar team?

And what if today’s ownership, after all those months of questions, wasn’t the same ownership that the club had 12 months ago, plus a couple of friends?


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Posted

One word describes this organization..... From ownership's attempt to sell the team, Falvey's attempt to build a perrenial contender, (which was his own words), Rocco's attempt to be a good manager, and the players attempt to play fundamental winning baseball. That word is FAILURE! 

And the worst part......... the lack of ACCOUNTABILITY! 

Posted

The players have been playing and practicing baseball a long time. My biggest issue is the lack of fundamentals and hustle displayed on the field game after game.  Many of the lost games are because of the lack of fundamentals.

Tim Laudner said it years ago, if you run hard you don't have to apologise to anybody. Running at 3/4 speed on a ground ball is unexceptable to me. Not running hard to grab an extra 90 feet is unexceptable to me.

The lackadaisical effort because 'it's a long season' is bu11s**t to me.  They are on the field 7 months. March through September.  Last I checked most of us work 12 months a year.

Attitude is Everything. If Rocco can not inspire a better attitude then find someone that will.

Posted
25 minutes ago, ziggy said:

Running at 3/4 speed on a ground ball is unexceptable to me. Not running hard to grab an extra 90 feet is unexceptable to me.

The defining image of the Falvey/Rocco era to me is last September when the Twins needed to beat Miami to stay in the playoff hunt, down to their last out and Correa loafs out a grounder.  The throw ends up pulling the 1B off the bag so if Correa would have been running he would have been safe. 

Would they have gone on to make the playoffs?  Almost certainly not.  But when the face of the franchise and self-anointed leader and "winner" can't be bothered to give an effort when the season is literally on the line, there is something deeply wrong in the organization.  

Posted

One of the biggest disappointments and underperformers  of the 2025 season has been Carlos Correa. Yet there is this huge lament he was traded. It didn’t work.  

OMG they din’t spend. Yet with a whole season’s worth of stats at their fingertips they can’t figure out that Bader was actually one of the best signings of a position player, Coulumbe was one of the best signings of a reliever.  Alonso did not want to leave the Mets. What other available first baseman that was available has a WAR value that would have made this team 15 games better?  Complaining for solutions  that do not exist 

when Lopez went down and Ober was injured and tried to pitch through it, this now ragtag collection of players had la record that was one of the best at the time. On these pages Ober was touted as a Cy Young candidate to start the year. How many teams can lose 2 pitchers of that caliber and compete?  

Posted
8 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

The defining image of the Falvey/Rocco era to me is last September when the Twins needed to beat Miami to stay in the playoff hunt, down to their last out and Correa loafs out a grounder.  The throw ends up pulling the 1B off the bag so if Correa would have been running he would have been safe. 

Would they have gone on to make the playoffs?  Almost certainly not.  But when the face of the franchise and self-anointed leader and "winner" can't be bothered to give an effort when the season is literally on the line, there is something deeply wrong in the organization.  

He seems to be playing hard for Houston....

Posted

Alcala is the epitome of how difficult it is to judge and retain quality player personnel - 100 mph golden arm - 10 cent production.  That makes Falvey's tossing aside quality relievers like empty beer bottles even more egregious.

Posted
23 minutes ago, old nurse said:

How many teams can lose 2 pitchers of that caliber and compete?

Teams do this all the time.  Milwaukee this year, Guardians have done it in the past.  The Dodgers have done it this year.  A good organization develops depth to withstand injuries that will happen.

Of course there is a certain amount of injuries you can't overcome, but two pitchers you should be able to.

Posted
28 minutes ago, karcherd said:

Teams do this all the time.  Milwaukee this year, Guardians have done it in the past.  The Dodgers have done it this year.  A good organization develops depth to withstand injuries that will happen.

Of course there is a certain amount of injuries you can't overcome, but two pitchers you should be able to.

The Twins do not have the resources the Dodgers do. The Guardians are not going to make the playoffs unless a team collapses. Milwaukee is making it by hitting, which is also how the Dodgers are doing it.  The Twins developing pitchers did well in AAA, called up to the majors, Festa and Mathew’s have struggled. That is also part of baseball. 

Posted
20 minutes ago, old nurse said:

The Twins do not have the resources the Dodgers do. The Guardians are not going to make the playoffs unless a team collapses. Milwaukee is making it by hitting, which is also how the Dodgers are doing it.  The Twins developing pitchers did well in AAA, called up to the majors, Festa and Mathew’s have struggled. That is also part of baseball. 

Wasn't referring to this year only.  Teams have lost two pitchers and you should be able to overcome that, so it should not be an excuse for this year.

Posted
4 minutes ago, karcherd said:

Wasn't referring to this year only.  Teams have lost two pitchers and you should be able to overcome that, so it should not be an excuse for this year.

In 2 years Cleveland has not been able to replace Bieber. After Strasberg went down, Washington tanked. The Dodgers can overcome because they have the resources 

Posted

IMO, this disease started back at the end of '19. Due to the "juiced ball", the "bomba squad" organically came to be among the hitters under Rowson. They won as a team, accolades of HRs & wins but crashed in the postseason. Falvey was lauded as a genius, it all went to his head & started to take full control. Instead of promoting key coaches, he let them walk. Because with his new analytical philosophies, he figured he didn't need them (which began this cancer). Instead of developing a player in defense, baserunning, fundamentals (like bunting) & individually working with hitters to develop their own swing, they focused on tweaking every hitter to hit more HR.

A few good players fell into Falvey's lap, which helped form the '23 core. I listened to a very interesting interview with Thad Levine. He stated that much like players, FOs have a scouting report on other FOs. So, IMO, other FOs have a scouting report on Falvey. That you can wait him out & get a better deal; that he's an easy mark to dump salary & flip players you don't want by spinning stats. Getting smart on Falvey means no more players falling in our laps & ending up with unfavorable players.

I agree with you, Gregg, that the lack of trying to improve this team probably added to the lack of enthusiasm by the players. But IMO, it wasn't the lack of money, because they did add unnecessary salaries & many needed improvements could have come by the way of trading away redundant players for needed ones, which wouldn't add salary.

IMO, you need to treat the cause (Falvey), not the symptom (players). Otherwise, the problem continues.

Posted
2 hours ago, ziggy said:

The players have been playing and practicing baseball a long time. My biggest issue is the lack of fundamentals and hustle displayed on the field game after game.  Many of the lost games are because of the lack of fundamentals.

Tim Laudner said it years ago, if you run hard you don't have to apologise to anybody. Running at 3/4 speed on a ground ball is unexceptable to me. Not running hard to grab an extra 90 feet is unexceptable to me.

The lackadaisical effort because 'it's a long season' is bu11s**t to me.  They are on the field 7 months. March through September.  Last I checked most of us work 12 months a year.

Attitude is Everything. If Rocco can not inspire a better attitude then find someone that will.

Agree whole heartedly, when I seen Keaschall sprinting all out down the first base line on a routine groundout, I thought that guy plays with heart/desire too bad the other deadbeats don't take the hint.  I sure hope I see him playing that hard 3-4 years from now...PS he looked like a Brewer with that hustle.

Posted
2 hours ago, Nshore said:

Alcala is the epitome of how difficult it is to judge and retain quality player personnel - 100 mph golden arm - 10 cent production.  That makes Falvey's tossing aside quality relievers like empty beer bottles even more egregious.

He joined that club no one wants to be in: Million dollar arm and ten cent head.

Ryan Leaf has someone to mentor!

Posted
1 hour ago, old nurse said:

In 2 years Cleveland has not been able to replace Bieber. After Strasberg went down, Washington tanked. The Dodgers can overcome because they have the resources 

I think you're underestimating how common it is for a team's top pitcher to miss half the season. And Ober? He barely missed any time and instead has niggling injuries? That's, again, very common. 

The Tigers currently have 9 pitchers on the IL. Blue Jays 7, Reds 8, etc etc. 

Good teams are built with depth and are able to overcome inevitable injuries. The Twins were never built with depth and injuries have long just been an excuse as to why they've  failed in recent years. 

Posted
3 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

many needed improvements could have come by the way of trading away redundant players for needed ones, which wouldn't add salary.

He DID try to trade from redundancy when it was obvious (Polanco) and people here largely hated it. But otherwise I can't really think of who he could have traded away for value in the last offseason that would have satisfied TD fans. Duran/Jax and maybe someone like Ober or Woods Richardson might have improved the team. Meanwhile, everyone was asking to trade away Paddack or Vazquez, who had zero, if not negative, trade value. 

This team was so poorly constructed going into the season, which is completely on Falvey, that these sorts of trades really wouldn't have done anything to offer more flexibility or real improvement for 2025.

The best move would have been getting out of the Correa contract earlier, while his value was still significantly higher. 

3 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

IMO, treating this cancer shouldn't be by killing off the precious white blood cells (players) & not touching the cancer (Falvey). You have to cut out the cancer.

But we agree here. Falvey is out of his element and has failed miserably in his job. 

Posted
1 hour ago, NYCTK said:

Falvey is out of his element and has failed miserably in his job. 

Right now their only hope is he has learned from all the mistakes he has made, changed the way he values talent and come up with a new strategy. Anyone see any evidence of that?

Posted
21 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Right now their only hope is he has learned from all the mistakes he has made, changed the way he values talent and come up with a new strategy. Anyone see any evidence of that?

I'm not saying he has been a success or that he should keep his job (his track record says no but every action ownership has taken says yes), but there has seemed to have been a pivot in recent years toward more athletic, more defensively-minded players. 

Since drafting Sabato, their first-round position-player picks have been:

Noah Miller - defensive wiz, zero power

Brooks Lee - great hit tool, not exactly Vince Coleman but profiled as having the hands and arm to be good defensively at 3B

Walker Jenkins - true 5-tool player, any FO would've taken him with that pick in that draft regardless of philosophy

Kaelen Culpepper and Marek Houston - shortstops with power being their weakest tool

In free agency, their biggest position player signings in each of the last 3 years (non-Correa division) were signed with defense in mind: Vasquez, Santana, Bader

If this has been a philosophy change, he's implementing it with the speed and urgency of someone turning an ocean freighter.  And none of these pieces have really impacted the core yet.  But there has been a definite increase in balls put in play (up to 65% of PAs from 56%) and decrease in strikeouts (nearly 2 fewer per game) since The Year Of The Strikeout in 2023. 

(There's also been a nearly 50 point drop in OPS and they're scoring 0.62 fewer runs per game since then, but that's for a different discussion on another day)

Posted
4 hours ago, NYCTK said:

I think you're underestimating how common it is for a team's top pitcher to miss half the season. And Ober? He barely missed any time and instead has niggling injuries? That's, again, very common. 

The Tigers currently have 9 pitchers on the IL. Blue Jays 7, Reds 8, etc etc. 

Good teams are built with depth and are able to overcome inevitable injuries. The Twins were never built with depth and injuries have long just been an excuse as to why they've  failed in recent years. 

The point was that the loss of the front line starters affects the outcomes of games. To say the Yankees are as good with Marcus Stroman having pitched games rather than Gerrit Cole would be a hard one to prove. You would sign Anthony DeScalfini for the veteran’s minimum rather than Max Fried for $218,000,000. 

The numbers of pitchers out, Number is not a big deal, it is who. For Detroit, Jobe and Olson out, replaced by Paddack and Morton. At the end of the season see if the replacements got them very far in the playoffs. At the Al Star break they were over a .600 winning percentage, as they had been for most of the season.  The second half they are at .483. Yup, the loss of starters did not effect them 

Posted
On 7/31/2025 at 8:42 PM, mnfireman said:

Funny how everybody on TD wanted a complete tear-down and re-build, and now complains that it happened.. What happened today was a total tear-down, Twins fans are not used to this, but they are doing what you, as fans, are asking for, and hoping to be competitive in a couple years. With any luck it will not be a Pirates, Rockies or Athletics rebuild...

 

 

 

On 7/31/2025 at 8:46 PM, Mike Sixel said:

You can want a tear down, and not be happy with the details of how it was executed. Both can be true. Also, most here did not want a tear down....

 

On 7/31/2025 at 9:03 PM, Aggies7 said:

 

 

Why in the world did they extend the manager if these were the moves that were going to be made? Why didn’t they just wait? Or is he just coming back for another lame duck season? Why would you want anyone who touched this team you just tore apart to be around a basically new roster?

 

10 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

IMO, this cancer started back at the end of '19. Due to the "juiced ball", the "bomba squad" organically came to be among the hitters under Rowson. They won as a team, accolades of HRs & wins but crashed in the postseason. Falvey was lauded as a genius, it all went to his head & started to take full control. Instead of promoting key coaches, he let them walk. Because with his new analytical philosophies, he figured he didn't need them (which began this cancer). Instead of developing a player in defense, baserunning, fundamentals (like bunting) & individually working with hitters to develop their own swing, they focused on tweaking every hitter to hit more HR.

A few good players fell into Falvey's lap, which helped form the '23 core. I listened to a very interesting interview with Thad Levine. He stated that much like players, FOs have a scouting report on other FOs. So, IMO, other FOs have a scouting report on Falvey. That you can wait him out & get a better deal; that he's an easy mark to dump salary & flip players you don't want by spinning stats. Getting smart on Falvey means no more players falling in our laps & ending up with unfavorable players.

I agree with you, Gregg, that the lack of trying to improve this team probably added to the lack of enthusiasm by the players. But IMO, it wasn't the lack of money, because they did add unnecessary salaries & many needed improvements could have come by the way of trading away redundant players for needed ones, which wouldn't add salary.

IMO, treating this cancer shouldn't be by killing off the precious white blood cells (players) & not touching the cancer (Falvey). You have to cut out the cancer.

As someone impacted deeply by the C word it would 

be great if you refrained from using the word. Thanks 

Posted
8 hours ago, Doc Lenz said:

As someone impacted deeply by the C word it would 

be great if you refrained from using the word. Thanks 

I'm sorry Doc, I've been impacted by the C word, also. It's an ugly word that I hate. I have edited that post & will refrain from using it in the future.

Posted
15 hours ago, The Great Hambino said:

I'm not saying he has been a success or that he should keep his job (his track record says no but every action ownership has taken says yes), but there has seemed to have been a pivot in recent years toward more athletic, more defensively-minded players. 

Since drafting Sabato, their first-round position-player picks have been:

Noah Miller - defensive wiz, zero power

Brooks Lee - great hit tool, not exactly Vince Coleman but profiled as having the hands and arm to be good defensively at 3B

Walker Jenkins - true 5-tool player, any FO would've taken him with that pick in that draft regardless of philosophy

Kaelen Culpepper and Marek Houston - shortstops with power being their weakest tool

In free agency, their biggest position player signings in each of the last 3 years (non-Correa division) were signed with defense in mind: Vasquez, Santana, Bader

If this has been a philosophy change, he's implementing it with the speed and urgency of someone turning an ocean freighter.  And none of these pieces have really impacted the core yet.  But there has been a definite increase in balls put in play (up to 65% of PAs from 56%) and decrease in strikeouts (nearly 2 fewer per game) since The Year Of The Strikeout in 2023. 

(There's also been a nearly 50 point drop in OPS and they're scoring 0.62 fewer runs per game since then, but that's for a different discussion on another day)

Good post, with the key point for me being that it has taken the FO until recenty to pivot to a different philosophy. The success (at least during the regular season) of 2019 was a long time ago. 

Posted
8 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

I'm sorry Doc, I've been impacted by the C word, also. It's an ugly word that I hate. I have edited that post & will refrain from using it in the future.

Thank you! Sorry to make a fuss. I will pray for you among others dealing with it.

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