Ope, Didn't Mean to Let You Have Hope

[Peter]

Twins are in transition!!! Never thought this type of moves would happen but it did!!! Needed to be done!!! Lockout in ‘27 will happen as there needs to be salary cap to give small town teams a chance to compete against big city teams. Let’s see how the children do! No pressure or expectations! Just bring competitive hard nosed baseball every game!!! It’s all going to work out!! Let’s go twins!! 

[rv78]

If adding Correa was Falveys "signature achievement", he failed miserably. It basically hand-tied him from adding any other significant talent that could have been used to add better options other than the cast-offs from other teams that we seen put on a Twins uniform on 1 year deals the last 3 seasons. It was a terrible use of payroll.

[Woof Bronzer]

5 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

This drastically overstates MLB rebuilds. As long as you have a middle tier farm system and a clear vision, you can turnover a roster and compete pretty quickly. It just takes bold management. Don't think Falvey is the guy that is going to be able to do that, happy to see him fired, but there's at least now a path. Is 2027 overly ambitious? A bit, but that's about the end of Buxton's shelf-life so I see them really trying to build towards that. 

The 2031 thing came from trading Varland, who is locked up thru 2030.  Why make that deal if you are looking at 2027?  

[tarheeltwinsfan]

19 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

This is the story right here. We’ve all worked in toxic environments with bad management at some point. It’s not even a debate anymore about the manager’s inability to competently run the clubhouse. The fact that he’s still employed after the events of yesterday.is mind numbing. 

The real man in charge in of this team in the clubhouse, was sent to Houston, along with $30,000,000 of the Pohlads' money.

[farmerguychris]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

Yeah, a lot of it is saving the Pohlad's some cash for sure. But that doesn't explain the very inexpensive Louie Varland.

Your 100% correct - I can't comprehend the purpose of that other than to assume the Jays would take France (and the 350K he's still owed) unless we gave them Varland for nothing.  Since saving money appears to be the only goal - that would fit.

[Aggies7]

9 minutes ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

The real man in charge in of this team in the clubhouse, was sent to Houston, along with $30,000,000 of the Pohlads' money.

Couldn’t have been that much in charge if he wanted to play third and they said no.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

14 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

Couldn’t have been that much in charge if he wanted to play third and they said no.

That may have happened and so C-4 took his baseball and went home.

[Nshore]

I know there's no crying in baseball, but can you forfeit?

[NYCTK]

28 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

The 2031 thing came from trading Varland, who is locked up thru 2030.  Why make that deal if you are looking at 2027?  

Because his upside is RP and they got a legit pitching prospect and potential starting LF. 

It was a pretty good trade. 

[Woof Bronzer]

2 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

Because his upside is RP and they got a legit pitching prospect and potential starting LF. 

It was a pretty good trade. 

It could turn out to be a terrible trade, you have no idea.  Trading proven MLB talent on team friendly deals for lottery tickets if you are trying to compete just doesn't make sense to me.  

[LastOnePicked]

1 hour ago, Muppet said:

They burned it to the ground, and for that I am happy. 

They did, yes. But too many of those trades were the equivalent of torching the lumberyard next door, too. This team did not get substantially better for 2028-29 yesterday. That's why I'm not happy.

[NYCTK]

21 minutes ago, farmerguychris said:

Your 100% correct - I can't comprehend the purpose of that other than to assume the Jays wouldn't take France (and the 350K he's still owed) unless we gave them Varland for nothing.  Since saving money appears to be the only goal - that would fit.

You all are way underestimating the return for Varland.

Kendry Rojas had really good numbers in A+ and only has a handful of appearances in high minors as a 22 year old. "He looks like a backend starter right now and has a chance to develop into more of a true no. 4 type if he can find a more enticing breaking ball." 

And Roden isn't a bad piece either. I'd trade Larnach for him, straight up. "Roden’s on-base skill and underrated baserunning give him a high floor as a corner outfielder." "he’s a good, big league-ready hitter with plus contact and plate skills."

[NYCTK]

3 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

It could turn out to be a terrible trade, you have no idea.  Trading proven MLB talent on team friendly deals for lottery tickets if you are trying to compete just doesn't make sense to me.  

They AREN'T lottery tickets. They're legit prospects/players. 

Varland isn't going to be become the best closer of all time, so I'm truly not concerned about him leaving.

Bullpen arm huggers are the new prospect huggers apparently. 

[Doctor Gast]

31 minutes ago, farmerguychris said:

Your 100% correct - I can't comprehend the purpose of that other than to assume the Jays wouldn't take France (and the 350K he's still owed) unless we gave them Varland for nothing.  Since saving money appears to be the only goal - that would fit.

You are probably right, but it doesn't make sense. France wasn't that expensive, so keep him as a platoon 1Bman & PH isn't a bad idea or even DFA him is better than giving Varland away.  

[Mike Sixel]

47 minutes ago, Peter said:

Twins are in transition!!! Never thought this type of moves would happen but it did!!! Needed to be done!!! Lockout in ‘27 will happen as there needs to be salary cap to give small town teams a chance to compete against big city teams. Let’s see how the children do! No pressure or expectations! Just bring competitive hard nosed baseball every game!!! It’s all going to work out!! Let’s go twins!! 

There better not be a salary cap. All that does is put money in owner's pockets. 

[NYCTK]

1 minute ago, Doctor Gast said:

You are probably right, but it doesn't make sense. France wasn't that expensive, so keep him as a platoon 1Bman & PH isn't a bad idea or even DFA him is better than giving Varland away.  

France wasn't what Toronto wanted, I promise you that trade wasn't being held up if the Twins said no to trading France. 

[Woof Bronzer]

1 minute ago, NYCTK said:

They AREN'T lottery tickets. They're legit prospects/players. 

Varland isn't going to be become the best closer of all time, so I'm truly not concerned about him leaving.

Bullpen arm huggers are the new prospect huggers apparently. 

Prospects are lottery tickets.  Neither guy they got are top 100 players.  You don't know how prospects will turn out. Austin Martin was a "legit" cant-miss prospect.  Total bust.  

I'm not shedding a tear for Varland, and I support the fire sale.  I'm just questioning why they would make this move if they truly plan to compete in 2027 like you said.  I don't think there is a plan.  Falvey was told to cut a ton of money and this is him winging it the best he can.  

[Eris]

The never to be answered puzzle is how so many players (Correa, Wallner, Lewis, Julian, Kepler, Miranda) could play like all stars for the 2nd half of 2023 giving hope, driving roster decisions and then collectively play some of the worst baseball ever since. There is a very strong possibility that Julian, Miranda and Kepler will not be on a 40 man roster next year. Of the two remaining players, Wallner and Lewis, neither is doing much to help the team this year. 

[NYCTK]

49 minutes ago, Peter said:

there needs to be salary cap to give small town teams a chance to compete

I do not believe this will happen. There is no reason for the MLBPA to give the owners this. I can instead see even more aggressive luxury taxes and drastically increased revenue sharing (47% up to 80%?). 

If something like a salary cap DID happen, I think the trade off is pre-arbitration is a dead idea and players are going to start to become expensive right away. And I don't think that really helps smaller market teams. 

[NYCTK]

2 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

Prospects are lottery tickets.  Neither guy they got are top 100 players.  You don't know how prospects will turn out. Austin Martin was a "legit" cant-miss prospect.  Total bust.  

I'm not shedding a tear for Varland, and I support the fire sale.  I'm just questioning why they would make this move if they truly plan to compete in 2027 like you said.  I don't think there is a plan.  Falvey was told to cut a ton of money and this is him winging it the best he can.  

It's simply that Varland is a bullpen arm. 

Bullpen arms are gettable. Case in point, I think I read that 45 relief pitchers were traded in the last couple of days. Many teams had ONE reliable arm leading into the trade deadline and were able to completely bolster their bullpen by trading away some mid tier prospects. 

The bullpen is the last thing you build on a competitor, not the first. Cleveland did well last year with a bullpen and little else, but they're really an anomaly, and the vaunted Twins bullpen had nowhere near the results of Cleveland's bullpen. 

The trade of Varland tells me that there IS a plan, or at least a semblance of an organizational philosophy. 

[Glorybound]

36 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

It's simply that Varland is a bullpen arm. 

Bullpen arms are gettable. Case in point, I think I read that 45 relief pitchers were traded in the last couple of days. Many teams had ONE reliable arm leading into the trade deadline and were able to completely bolster their bullpen by trading away some mid tier prospects. 

The bullpen is the last thing you build on a competitor, not the first. Cleveland did well last year with a bullpen and little else, but they're really an anomaly, and the vaunted Twins bullpen had nowhere near the results of Cleveland's bullpen. 

The trade of Varland tells me that there IS a plan, or at least a semblance of an organizational philosophy. 

Well I guess Funderburk needs a job and pretty sure he couldn’t cut it on a winning team. Heck he might be the new closer.

[S Bart]

"The final budget for construction was $435 million, of which $175 million was paid by the Twins and $260 million was paid by Hennepin County by way of a 0.15% county-wide sales tax. An additional $120 million in infrastructure costs were split between the county ($90 million), the team ($20 million), Target Corporation ($4.5 million), the Minnesota Department of Transportation ($3.5 million) and the Minnesota Ballpark Authority ($2 million) bringing the project's total cost to US$555 million."

This was a Twins Daily post from last fall. I will remind the fans that THEY paid for the majority of this ballpark. 

[lukeduke1980]

2 hours ago, LewFordLives said:

Agreed. I didn't have a problem with trading most of those guys. I certainly didn't like the return we got for some of them, but at least you can justify the move in your head. Even Duran. I hate the trade and hate the return, but if the goal was to save money, at least that's a reason.  

But Varland, Stewart, and to some degree Jax?   Why???  Varland and Stewart aren't making that much and they were essentially given away for nothing. Varland isn't even arbitration eligible.  Was this done purely out of spite?

As head spinning as the day was I guess I agree.  I'm annoyed that Correa gets his way and will probably start hitting.   Varland I would have kept but he's older than I thought so they might have considered him an injury risk or something. 

Bring on the Michael Tonkin all stars we'll see how they respond.

[S Bart]

Nobody seems to mention losing Dobnak. Did you forget about Randy? 

[Muppet]

13 minutes ago, S Bart said:

Nobody seems to mention losing Dobnak. Did you forget about Randy? 

I'm sure Dobby will be just fine. Toledo is probably a great city. 

[laloesch]

2 hours ago, Muppet said:

No worries about this from me. This team was terrible. Without the White Sox being all-time terrible, the Twins were battling for worst in the AL. This core was not going to compete next year either. It is a bummer to lose Varland, but I'm not getting all worked up about it.  Duran was the best player to get traded, hopefully they got more than they gave up. Most of the rest were leaving after this year, overrated (Jax), or dragging the team down (Correa).

I am in no position to have an opinion on the haul they brought in, so I'm not going to try. Sure I don't know whether I'd trust the front office to do a great job, but  just in executing this fire sale they did better than they could have. 

To me this is a fresh start. If the 2026 team is going to suck, at least it will be with young hopefuls rather than old has-beens. Now if the team is sold, the new owners, presuming they will spend money, have a blank slate to play with... and hopefully a larger pool of quality prospects to develop. 

They burned it to the ground, and for that I am happy. 

THIS 100%

[laloesch]

1 hour ago, Eris said:

The never to be answered puzzle is how so many players (Correa, Wallner, Lewis, Julian, Kepler, Miranda) could play like all stars for the 2nd half of 2023 giving hope, driving roster decisions and then collectively play some of the worst baseball ever since. There is a very strong possibility that Julian, Miranda and Kepler will not be on a 40 man roster next year. Of the two remaining players, Wallner and Lewis, neither is doing much to help the team this year. 

Bad chemistry and a bad Manager. That to me is the only explanation, but hey what do i know.  They had the talent to go on a solid 13 game win streak and do well the first 2/3 of the season last year before that historic collapse.  That to me indicates something else was going on and I'm not talking about the sale of the franchise.  I think there was internal trouble in the clubhouse and possibly a number of cancers and it just fractured the team into pieces.

[weitz41]

Disappointing day yesterday. But from the "right sizing payroll" comment this was bound to happen if the sale of the team didn't happen quickly.

If I put on my rose-colored glasses the starting pitching actually improved, offense is about the same and of course the BP is a wasteland. Who need a BP when you're going to score 2 runs a game.

Bring up K. Culpepper (from AA), Martin, Julien, Maybe Eeles and activate Keashall, Morris, Raya, Lewis, Priellip and Urena for the BP. Roll with it. Don't have the exact number their short on players..;p

[laloesch]

3 hours ago, In My La Z boy said:

The sale of the team is the paramount concern obviously. You have to believe Falvey was instructed to do this, and sadly, reports out of Houston seem to indicate Correa & Altuve cooked the Houston trade up. I think its good riddance Correa for working the phones and angling his way out of here and back to there. Must have been some bad team karma going around that clubhouse when your supposed leader is trying to get out. We still have a starting staff and an everyday lineup. Who needs a bullpen and a bench 🙃 Let's play the kids! 

Correa is not what he appears to be.  On the surface he acts like he's the man and the consummate professional and in many ways, he is, but he's also a known cheater and never lived up to the hype of that contract the Twins gave him at least from an offensive production point. 

I'm not blind.  I've watched Twins baseball for many decades now well back into the early 80's and he wasn't ALL THAT in my opinion.  He was absolutely horrendous in the order for much of his tenure here, perhaps one of the streakiest Twin's players I can remember in a long, long time.  He was also a brutal double play machine and just destroyed the team's momentum on offense in close games and it just made me cringe at times watching him hit grounders.  I'm kinda glad he's gone, not worth the money.  

[NYCTK]

40 minutes ago, S Bart said:

"The final budget for construction was $435 million, of which $175 million was paid by the Twins and $260 million was paid by Hennepin County by way of a 0.15% county-wide sales tax. An additional $120 million in infrastructure costs were split between the county ($90 million), the team ($20 million), Target Corporation ($4.5 million), the Minnesota Department of Transportation ($3.5 million) and the Minnesota Ballpark Authority ($2 million) bringing the project's total cost to US$555 million."

This was a Twins Daily post from last fall. I will remind the fans that THEY paid for the majority of this ballpark. 

Billionaires are well known welfare queens. Thankfully they just received another tax cut at our expense 🙏