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Posted

I don't think this team needs a massive rebuild. They have a talented group of pitchers and that's the hardest thing to assemble. They should trade 

a) impending free agents

b) players in their mid to late 30s who aren't free agents

That translates to

a) Castro, Paddack, Coulombe, Bader, France, & Vazquez (in roughly that order for trade value)

b) Brock Stewart and Justin Topa

Trading 8 players off the 26-man roster is a lot. It will open up more spots than they have players deserving of taking those spots (especially in the bullpen). It will bring in perhaps a dozen prospects of varying quality into the system.

If they want to do a roster overhaul, the best time to do that is in the offseason.

I'd rather they keep Duran and give him a contract extension. If they don't trade him this year, they will have the opportunity again next year.

I don't think Correa would agree to a trade. If he would agree to move to the Yankees, I'd pursue it.

Posted

I don't understand why there isn't full consensus that this team isn't good enough.  Why are we clutching on to anyone so that we can win 78 games instead of 70?

The team should absolutely be shopping players like Duran.  If you can turn a great reliever into a really good every day player?  You do that.  The team isn't going to resign him when he's a free agent, so sell high.

Now...getting bang for your buck is another issue.  Hopefully the Front Office targets the right returns.

Posted
4 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

The team should absolutely be shopping players like Duran.  If you can turn a great reliever into a really good every day player?  You do that.  The team isn't going to resign him when he's a free agent, so sell high.

Now...getting bang for your buck is another issue.  Hopefully the Front Office targets the right returns.

I don't see a sense of urgency that they must trade Duran now. He has two more years of team control after this season. They can trade him in the offseason, next summer's trade deadline or next offseason. The only reason to trade him now is if a team offers a really great prospect package - better than they received for Jose Berrios.

Posted

I've been advocating making Duran available to the Dodgers in a deal for Rushing for quite some time.  I think the Dodgers would look at Duran as a final piece to repeating as World Series Champs.  The guy who locks down their BP and every one of the good arms they currently have in their BP leads to Duran closing the game.  

Here's a suggestion that others who have access to BBTV can critique and expand on.  Even though the Dodgers are giving up Rushing, I think a small overpay for them to get get Duran makes a trade like this possible.

Dodgers Get:  Duran 19.1  Jeffers  19.4  Castro 10.5  Total  49.0 (these are my most current figures and may not be completely accurate.  Castro's value especially may have risen).

Twins Get:  Rushing 43.1   Bobby Miller 0.0 and Gavin Stone 6.7.  Stone and Miller have been 2 highly touted Dodger pitchers who are battling injuries.  Much like Brock Stewart, a former Dodger SP with great potential who the Twins acquired, Miller and Stone are gambles for the Twins but could be acceptable throw-ins for the Dodgers.  Last I saw, Miller's value had cratered to zero.  Stone, in my opinion is incredibly low at 6.7.  He's injured and missing the entire year.  His value would begin to grow once he starts demonstrating improved health.   

Rushing is the key piece.  We send Jeffers off to back up All Star Will Smith and Rushing steps into the primary catcher position with Vasquez behind him.  Miller and Stone with their electric arms can rest and rehab until next year.  If progress with their health is made, the Twins have 2 more young SP's to add to a potential staff led by Lopez and Ryan with a healthier Ober for 2026.  This would give the Twins a MUCH deeper pitching staff as well as add their "Catcher of the Future" who should be an impact bat in the middle of their lineup.  

The Dodgers get their stud closer to lead their BP.  They get a decent offensive catcher to back up Will Smith, and they get the kind of versatile player they love in Willi Castro,  setting up a successful run to a 2nd consecutive World Series Championship.  The selling point to the Dodgers for giving up a top prospect like Rushing as well as a couple of promising, yet injury hampered arms, is the successful defense of their World Series Championship. 

That's all that should matter to the Dodgers.  They can use their deep pockets and rich farm system to simply reload for 2026.  

The Twins should be dealing Bader and Paddack for sure.  One of Larnach or Wallner is interesting to consider.  Guys like Julien and Miranda should be strongly considered in any package.  It's time to start re-working this roster.  Buxton, Correa, Lopez, Ryan, they should be staying.  With Duran going, I make Jax the closer.  I think he can handle it. 

It would be preferable to have a new ownership with a new FO and a new manager and coaching staff making these decisions but that's not possible.  A new approach, a new philosophy, a new vision for how the game should be played is needed.  It would be best to have that new manager and coaching staff determine what that roster would look like and the kinds of players needed to make it a reality.  But that is not OUR reality as fans right now.  We need change.  Let that change have it's beginning at the trade deadline and once new ownership is a reality, let them further refine what the Twins will ultimately become.    

 

Posted
7 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

That translates to

a) Castro, Paddack, Coulombe, Bader, France, & Vazquez (in roughly that order for trade value)

b) Brock Stewart and Justin Topa

The return on this would be...what, maybe one legitimate prospect, 3 illegitimate AA players and a batch of non-prospect rookie leaguers? This isn't really doing anything. 

10 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

I'd rather they keep Duran and give him a contract extension. If they don't trade him this year, they will have the opportunity again next year.

This team is not anywhere close to being a contender. I don't know why anyone thinks that next year is going to be different with this exact same team. I really, truly don't care if the top of the bullpen is great on a 76 win team. 

13 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

I don't think Correa would agree to a trade. If he would agree to move to the Yankees, I'd pursue it.

How the Twins allowed a player that had two contracts ripped up due to medical concerns to have a NTC is a mystery. Maybe that was a players association rule or something I'm not familiar, otherwise it was terrible addition to an already bad contract. 

His contract is thankfully not super long, but I would love to see the Twins be able to get out of it. Don't care if they don't receive a single prospect in exchange. 

 

Posted
41 minutes ago, Dman said:

I don't think Bader and Paddack bring back much.  If Bader could knock down a few more home runs and up that average a little he could be very valuable, but once again his bat is dragging down his value.

Paddack has pitched poorly, really well and then poorly again and might be back to pitching well.  I would try to sell him as an elite pen arm\long man to teams.  His lack of consistency will bring down his price if anyone wants him at all.

Coulombe should fetch something good.  He has litterly been the definition of shut down lefty.  They brought him into the toughest situation and he has wriggled them out of a lot of tough spots.  That feels like top 10 prospect territory to me.

Castro also should bring back great value.  his near .800 OPS puts him just outside the top 50 for qualified MLB hitters, he can play multiple positions well and give you a decent bat.  If you want injury insurance for your playoff run I'd say Castro is a better version of what Zobrist was and he commanded a lot when traded.

One of Larnach and Wallner need to go.  Whether it is Rodriguez or Gonazalez or Keaschael or eventually Jenkins.  Someone is taking that spot.  I don't know if they can get anything for him at the deadline.  Might have to wait for the offseason but someone has to go and I think Larnach is the one.

While I know Lewis can hurt his hamstring tying his shoe. Selling at a low point with so many years of control left for so little money just doesn't make sense.  At worst he is just a sunk cost at this point at best he rebounds and the Twins have a good cheap player.

I don't love the idea of trading Duran, but if he can get one or two differencing making assets I would do it.  Not all that long ago the Cubs traded their number one Prospect to the Yankee's for a dominant lefty closer.  I would think Duran alone or Duran and pieces should be able to get something similar.  He is in his prime.  It is a big durable body that can throw 100 if he wants to.  He has 3 years of control left counting this year.  That should command a lot.

I agree with ALL of this except Paddack. Competent SP always has value.

While he may not slot as a playoff starter, he could very much help a team get over the hump and MAKE the playoffs. He could also bolster the bullpen in the playoffs. 

For me, Paddack, Duran, Castro, and Coulombe can all net a worthy return and should be delt. 

Larnach, Bader, and France would be possible 'sweeteners' to get a deal done with the above if they filled a specific need for a trade partner.  

Posted
28 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

I don't think this team needs a massive rebuild. They have a talented group of pitchers and that's the hardest thing to assemble. They should trade 

a) impending free agents

b) players in their mid to late 30s who aren't free agents

That translates to

a) Castro, Paddack, Coulombe, Bader, France, & Vazquez (in roughly that order for trade value)

b) Brock Stewart and Justin Topa

Trading 8 players off the 26-man roster is a lot. It will open up more spots than they have players deserving of taking those spots (especially in the bullpen). It will bring in perhaps a dozen prospects of varying quality into the system.

If they want to do a roster overhaul, the best time to do that is in the offseason.

I'd rather they keep Duran and give him a contract extension. If they don't trade him this year, they will have the opportunity again next year.

I don't think Correa would agree to a trade. If he would agree to move to the Yankees, I'd pursue it.

I forgot about Brock!  IF he stays healthy, he would absolutely be attractive to contending teams! 

WHEN healthy, his stuff is electric enough to make a difference in the playoffs!

Verified Member
Posted
10 minutes ago, D.C Twins said:

I agree with ALL of this except Paddack. Competent SP always has value.

While he may not slot as a playoff starter, he could very much help a team get over the hump and MAKE the playoffs. He could also bolster the bullpen in the playoffs. 

For me, Paddack, Duran, Castro, and Coulombe can all net a worthy return and should be delt. 

Larnach, Bader, and France would be possible 'sweeteners' to get a deal done with the above if they filled a specific need for a trade partner.  

I don't disagree that much but if you look at what might be available at the deadline I'd think teams will have several "better" options. I guess it would come down to price versus what you think you are getting.  Paddack had a great Month of May.  If that is who he primarily is that is very valuable.  There are only so many teams and so many deals that can be made.  I just think he looks like someone on the lower end of the scale if other teams do sell "their" guys. If they don't that could lift his value.  It is hard to know what can and can't get done at the deadline as we don't always know who truly is available.

If he hadn't fallen back here recently I would say yes worth quit a bit, but the other thing against him is he hasn't been a durable arm over his career.  Teams will be looking at consistency and durability when making these deals as they plan to compete late in the season. He seems riskier that is why I have rated lower.

Posted
52 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

This core failed, so it's time to change direction. 

No half measures. 

Agreed. This is a 90-loss team that has occasional flashes of being something better. Those flashes fade as soon as any pressure is applied.

It's a sloppy team, an injury-prone team and a team without leadership or spark. Clean house and start the long climb back to relevance.

Posted

The reality is: It's too soon to be making these decisions but it can be fun and disapointing to what if. 

OK... What if. 

There are two types of selling and all the space in between. 

A. The simple moving of expiring contracts.

B. The full tear down followed by full rebuild. 

Option A - Should happen fully and completely if the team is clearly not in contention. Even if you get nothing in return for these players... they need to be cleared off the roster so 2026 options are in the lineup instead. No hanging on to a Logan Forsythe for the hell of it.  

Option B - I'd listen to offers because some nice deals could be available in what could be a sellers market but I'd rather they wait for the off-season with a new front office in place to facilitate the moves.   

Larnach or Wallner - I am 100 percent against any reasoning of moving Larnach or Wallner because they are both left handed. This type of thinking has to stop. This team just needs to search for bats period regardless of what batters box they stand in. 75% of pitching is Right Handed. Why do we continually feel the need to suppress our left handed hitting pool and search for more average at best right handed hitters? I don't understand it and never will. The Tigers are doing just fine with a lot of left handers in the lineup. Matt Wallner will still make the minimum next year. Matt Wallner type players are exactly who the Twins should be trying to acquire if they are selling. Young players making the minimum with years of control with potential. Trevor Larnach? He will be in year two of Arb... probably cost 4 5 or 6 million. I'm a big Larnach fan but you could justify trading him but... I need to ask loud and clear. What has the Twins organization done to his trade value? They certainly haven't maximized his trade value by keeping him from left handed hitters. Everyone please understand that there is a future bill to pay for what they have done to our young left handed hitters. The bill that is coming due is a lowered trade value and therefore lower return when you find yourself in the situation of needing to sell. And it's important to point out that needing to sell will partially demonstrate that strip mining your talent for parts DIDN'T WORK because if it worked... you wouldn't need to sell.   

Royce Lewis: Good God Absolutely not... not at this time at least... Absolutely not. I'm just as frustrated with Royce as anyone else. The constant injuries and a year long slump has been hard to endure and that is exactly why you don't trade him now because the constant injuries and year long slump will have lowered his trade value to about as low as it can get. If we are selling... Royce Lewis plays through his issues and we continue to hope that he restores his trade value. Trading him at an absolutely low point would be irresponsible. 

Duran and Jax: Makes perfect sense. Both players will be expiring contracts in 2026. No idea what they will make in their third year of arbitration but they might be a combined 15 million out of the budget. I'd love to keep them but money is an issue this year and it's going to be an issue next year. Both are talented enough to return some decent talent from a contending team. Many will argue this but you can always make another closer or set up guy.   

Posted
10 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

The return on this would be...what, maybe one legitimate prospect, 3 illegitimate AA players and a batch of non-prospect rookie leaguers? This isn't really doing anything. 

Castro, Paddack, Coulombe and Stewart should each return a prospect that would be in the 5-20 range for the Twins. They're guys who can help a contending team. I expect a bidding war for Castro because he can fill a hole for just about every team in contention. Bader, Topa and France can bolster the bench for a contender and will return a 40 FV prospect. They're probably stuck with Vazquez.

The Twins have talent that isn't far off. Keaschall had a promising debut. Rodriguez, Culpepper, Gonzalez, Prielipp and Jenkins could be contributing next season. They still have 6 starting pitchers worth a spot (Ryan, Lopez, Ober, Matthews, Festa, Woods-Richardson) and four solid relievers (Duran, Jax, Varland, Sands).

If that isn't enough to build on, then they'll never have enough.

Posted
4 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Duran and Jax: Makes perfect sense. Both players will be expiring contracts in 2026. 

Duran and Jax are under team control until the end of the 2027 season.

Posted
2 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

The Twins have talent that isn't far off. Keaschall had a promising debut. Rodriguez, Culpepper, Gonzalez, Prielipp and Jenkins could be contributing next season. They still have 6 starting pitchers worth a spot (Ryan, Lopez, Ober, Matthews, Festa, Woods-Richardson) and four solid relievers (Duran, Jax, Varland, Sands).

Asking all those rookies to contribute next year is a big ask. Which is why I'm looking to '27. Happy to give them all a chance, but will take time for them to get settled, let the cream rise to the top. And let the pretenders (Rodriguez) falter at be removed from the plans. 

All that pitching are Twins now. How is all that pitching doing this season? Are the Twins contenders with that abundance of great pitching? Surely, they must be close if it's enough to build on, as you claim. 

Posted
47 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

I don't understand why there isn't full consensus that this team isn't good enough.  Why are we clutching on to anyone so that we can win 78 games instead of 70?

The team should absolutely be shopping players like Duran.  If you can turn a great reliever into a really good every day player?  You do that.  The team isn't going to resign him when he's a free agent, so sell high.

Now...getting bang for your buck is another issue.  Hopefully the Front Office targets the right returns.

Agreed. This team is overdue for a major overhaul. The problem is I’ve lost all confidence in Derek Falvey leading the way. So a boring trade deadline might be in the cards again. 

Posted
Just now, Western SD Fan said:

Just would like to make a correction here that may affect your consideration.  Duran and Jax still have two years of arbitration left after 2025.  Neither will become free agents until 2028.

Minnesota Twins Multi-Year Table

You are right. 

When you factor that in. My perfect sense comment isn't as perfect. 😄

Posted
1 minute ago, NYCTK said:

All that pitching are Twins now. How is all that pitching doing this season? Are the Twins contenders with that abundance of great pitching? Surely, they must be close if it's enough to build on, as you claim. 

No, their offense is awful and their defense is below average. The good news is Keaschall, Rodriguez, Jenkins and Culpepper all seem to be able to play defense.

The Pablo Lopez injury was a huge loss. Are you betting that he'll be injured and unable to pitch again next season?

Posted

Twins should get whatever value they can trading away our expiring contracts. Castro, Paddack, Coloumbe, Bader, France and Vasquez. If we're looking for better returns that can help next year we could stand to trade one of Wallner or Larnach. Both are iffy on defense. Wallner has more power but Larnach is the better hitter, and can hold his own against lefties. Problem is they are both in a bit of a slump so their value won't be very high. Our best trade chip might be Duran. If we can trade him for a young controllable SP and a viable catcher to pair with Jeffers I'd say go for it. The way our AAA starting pitchers have looked this year, it's clear we need more and better talent.

Posted
11 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Agreed. This team is overdue for a major overhaul. The problem is I’ve lost all confidence in Derek Falvey leading the way. So a boring trade deadline might be in the cards again. 

That's my concern as well about a major overhaul.  Also, as I have commented before, a major overhaul may lower the potential FMV of the team and we are already worried that the current ownership won't sell.  We kind of saw this when Arte Moreno took the Angels off the market and that team seems to have less of a future than we do.

Posted
2 hours ago, Trov said:

No way should you look to move Lewis right now, unless a team blows you away with an offer, but with his value about as low as can be no way.  No player is untouchable but bad moves trading guys at their low point in value. 

In terms of the corner OF they have little value.  Wallner right now not hitting, so he has little value and Larnach has been fine, but not elite.  Neither will net anything other than a middle pen guy that is just above a DFA pickup, or a low level lottery ticket prospect. Unless you are an elite hitter at corner OF, they are a dime a dozen.  Even elite fielding corner guys are easy to replace. Yes, Wallner has shown elite power when he is on, so a team may take a flier on him, but knowing he will not net much, unless a team really thinks they can get him right again and willing to over pay for him.  I get we have plenty of guys that can fill in, but that is my point, so do many other teams. 

Jax or Duran would be selling moves, not reshuffling moves.  If the team thinks they can make the playoffs you do not trade elite pen guys because in the playoffs you need them more than any other time. You need to make sure you can lock down as many innings as you can.  It is not just about the 9th, it is about knowing that if your starter can go 5 or 6 solid, you got guys that will lock down the end. If either get traded the team is saying, we are selling, unless you can get a guy in return that is close and can replace and add some prospects.  However, why would a team have a guy that is nearly as good as what we are giving up in a trade? 

I think this wraps it up all perfectly!

Posted

Jax could easily become a closer, I feel like we should move him to starter and oblige his request. Trade Sands or someone else. Extend Castro, he should be a Mainstay. Talk to Correa about if hed consider requesting a trade. 

Posted

Corner outfielders who are average do not brig much in return. Nothing to get excited about there. The haul of players for an All star closer rental netted Miami all of a potential back of the rotation starter. Erceg brought back non prospects. The trades at the deadline work best when a team is more desperate. Other the Ryan and Duran,, trades have brought back very little. Ryan was for an All Star player i that season, Duran for a player that was producing 3 WAR. Of the players with no trade contracts Ryan and Dura are the only 2 players who would brig back anything other than a very low probability of success prospect  they are the only 2 players who have consistently produced 

Posted
2 hours ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Unless there is a directive from ownership to shed salary (not out of the question) or gut the team, the chances of trading Ryan are zero. Outside of the no-trade clauses, Ryan is the most valuable player on this team. Cost controlled, young, high-end SP are unbelievably rare in todays game. The only real thing I see happening while ownership is in flux is that Ryan gets a contract extension.

I have continuously said the Twins will have a punchers chance with Lopez, Ryan, Ober, Correa, Buxton, and Lewis on the roster. Switch out Lewis for Jeffers, and this still holds true. Ownership needs the general perception to be that they care about the team. Destroying the quality components by trading or moving these guys will negatively affect the sale efforts.

Duran should be moved now. Highest value for the most replaceable piece. There is an argument for keeping Wallner and Castro (if they believe they can extend/resign him), but pretty much everyone else can be had for the right price.

So let me get this straight. You're saying the Twins should keep Ryan, Lopez, Ober, Correa, Buxton, and Lewis. And probably Wallner and Castro.

"Everyone else can be had for the right price" - what the heck's left? Nobody's giving up anything for players in the garbage pile of a 40-45 team. Sure, the Twins can sell off Ty France and Trevor Larnach and Harrison Bader, but they're not going to get more than a couple of A-ball lottery tickets for these guys. 

If you are expecting the Twins to get real prospects who can legitimately make an impact in the league for years to come, you've got to part with your good players. 

Posted

The Twins should trade any expiring contract player to as good of contender as possible. The return will be hope, but it does the player a favor 

Posted
18 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

The good news is Keaschall, Rodriguez, Jenkins and Culpepper

And any expectation of them contributing (as a unit) in real ways before 2027 is foley. Keaschall, sure. But no one else. I'm a Rodriguez hater though so maybe he can prove me wrong. 

Posted
20 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

The Pablo Lopez injury was a huge loss. Are you betting that he'll be injured and unable to pitch again next season?

Pitchers get injured. I'm betting on a team not having 100% health. Next year it might be Lopez again. Or it might be Duran. Or maybe Ryan again. 

A pitcher missing 3 months is hardly unexpected. 

Posted
23 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

And any expectation of them contributing (as a unit) in real ways before 2027 is foley. Keaschall, sure. But no one else. I'm a Rodriguez hater though so maybe he can prove me wrong. 

Then Jenkins isn't nearly as good of a prospect as has been hyped and Rodriguez isn't a prospect at all.

Posted
2 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Extensions of players who are impending free agents are very rare. Those players will go to free agency and test the market. If the Twins want to bring them back, they will have their chance during the offseason. In the meantime, the only value they have for the franchise is as a trade chit.

Castro is a perfect example of a player a team might trade now and look to sign as a free agent in November.

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