Rocco

[Maybe Next Year]

I’m pretty sure I will be one of the few on this board but I say it’s time for Baldelli to go. Enough of his damn analytics.  Each day you have different guys playing different positions as well as different batting orders. There is no consistency whatsoever. He needs to play his best 8 position players in the same position for numerous games in a row. Same with the batting order. Yes, I know we are going through a lot of injuries to key players. Yes, I know these are supposed to be professionals. But that is no excuse for using a different lineup each and every day in the field and at the plate. The players need to be able to settle in and not wonder each day what their role will be. Baldelli over manages to the detriment of the team. 

[Riverbrian]

Out of curiosity.

Who are the best 8 position players? 

[Craig Arko]

16 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Out of curiosity.

Who are the best 8 position players? 

Certainly Judge, Ohtani, and Witt should be in there. I don’t understand why Rocco never plays them.

[USAFChief]

So easy to smugly dismiss the idea, but no actual defense of the manager.

To the OP: preach, 

The Twins need a MLB manager. This has been pretty evident for a couple years now.

 

 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

51 minutes ago, Maybe Next Year said:

The players need to be able to settle in and not wonder each day what their role will be.

The funny thing is, either last year or during this years winning streak, I heard someone on the radio ask Rocco to explain the team’s success and these were 

were pretty much Rocco’s exact words. “Guys come to the park and know what is expected of them, and are able to settle into their roles.”

[Riverbrian]

1 minute ago, USAFChief said:

So easy to smugly dismiss the idea, but no actual defense of the manager.

To the OP: preach, 

The Twins need a MLB manager. This has been pretty evident for a couple years now.

 

 

I'm not sure that I am smugly dismissing the idea. I know that I believe that Wallner should be every day so I'd say that I am not inclined to defend nor throw Rocco under the bus.  

But, before I do any of these things above.

I think it's fair to get a clarification on who the best 8 position players that should be the same lineup and the same batting order. The identification of those 8 players is pretty key to the discussion.  

[gregens]

3 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

So easy to smugly dismiss the idea, but no actual defense of the manager.

To the OP: preach, 

The Twins need a MLB manager. This has been pretty evident for a couple years now.

 

I've often wondered what Rocco supporters think he does well.   The Twins are not going to be a team that signs multiple high dollar free agents so they will need to get the most out of the players they have or can afford.  Therefore, they need an above average manager to get the most of the human resources they have.   

My question is; what does Rocco do that is better than your average mlb manager?

[mrcharlie]

Rocco deserves some credit for the Twins being in a position to make the playoffs.  However, his continued shuffling of the lineup is baffling.  In his defense for the great majority of the season he has been limited by injury to put together a lineup of our best hitters.  But it is true that (as with any job) a person will be better prepared if they know their role from day to day.  The only critical element in putting together a lineup is #1,2,3 need to be your most productive because they will bat the most often in a game. We can debate who those are at the moment, but when the time comes when everyone is healthy... Correa, Santana, Lewis are very good options.

[USAFChief]

2 hours ago, Craig Arko said:

Certainly Judge, Ohtani, and Witt should be in there. I don’t understand why Rocco never plays them.

 

Kansas City has played 141 games this season.

Bobby Witt Jr has played 141 games this season. 140 at SS. One at DH.

He has batted in the following lineup spots: 2nd.

Yup, that's it. 2nd. 

Now tell me what that would look like if he played for Rocco.

BTW, Aaron Judge has played 138 games this season. The Yankees: 140

He's hit in the following lineup spots: 3rd.

Ohtani: 137 games. But you got us, he's somehow been thrown all over the lineup. He's batted both 1st and 2nd.

 

[Schmoeman5]

1 hour ago, Riverbrian said:

Out of curiosity.

Who are the best 8 position players? 

Currently as things stand? Or when everyone is healthy?  It's fluid. Rocco has not put his best 9 hitters in the lineup ever. Either due to health or match-ups or getaway day or you can't play Buxton for 3 straight. He's got a chemistry set that he loves playing with. 

[Jocko87]

1 hour ago, USAFChief said:

 

Kansas City has played 141 games this season.

Bobby Witt Jr has played 141 games this season. 140 at SS. One at DH.

He has batted in the following lineup spots: 2nd.

Yup, that's it. 2nd. 

Now tell me what that would look like of he played for Rocco.

BTW, Aaron Judge has played 138 games this season. The Yankees: 140

He's hit in the following lineup spots: 3rd.

 

Call me crazy, and I'm not here to cape up for Rocco, but if he had a Witt or Judge he would be doing that same thing.

[Schmoeman5]

1 hour ago, USAFChief said:

 

Kansas City has played 141 games this season.

Bobby Witt Jr has played 141 games this season. 140 at SS. One at DH.

He has batted in the following lineup spots: 2nd.

Yup, that's it. 2nd. 

Now tell me what that would look like of he played for Rocco.

 

Just using Witt. If he were a Twin. He'd hit 1-4. And he'd have at least 10 games off for fear of breaking down.

[Craig Arko]

25 minutes ago, gregens said:

My question is; what does Rocco do that is better than your average mlb manager?

Well, he does have a winning record overall. I would consider him about average; certainly not exceptional. I’m skeptical about who would do any better with this group of players. https://www.baseball-reference.com/managers/baldero01.shtml

[jctwins]

I have to wonder what is behind Lewis speaking out on the playing 2nd base insanity. Those weren't very thinly veiled criticisms of the BS.

[USAFChief]

2 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

Call me crazy, and I'm not here to cape up for Rocco, but if he had a Witt or Judge he would be doing that same thing.

You base this on what? 

[Schmoeman5]

2 minutes ago, Craig Arko said:

Well, he does have a winning record overall. https://www.baseball-reference.com/managers/baldero01.shtml

Anyone on TD would have a winning record. But seriously.  Any major league manager would have a winning record. Some would be multiple games better

[Craig Arko]

Just now, Schmoeman5 said:

Anyone on TD would have a winning record.

Well, that goes without saying. 

[Riverbrian]

9 minutes ago, Schmoeman5 said:

Currently as things stand? Or when everyone is healthy?  It's fluid. Rocco has not put his best 9 hitters in the lineup ever. Either due to health or match-ups or getaway day or you can't play Buxton for 3 straight. He's got a chemistry set that he loves playing with. 

As things stand since the post seems to be poised in the context of now.  

However... I'd be curious who the 8 are if everyone is healthy as well. 

The post is saying 8 so platooning is no longer an option.  

[Jocko87]

1 minute ago, USAFChief said:

You base this on what? 

Common ****ing sense.  Uncommon, I know.

Why would you assume otherwise? Like keeping one of the best 5 players in the game on the bench is actually something Rocco would do?

You came up with those game numbers pretty quickly-now do Correa when he's not on the IL.

[Schmoeman5]

14 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

Common ****ing sense.  Uncommon, I know.

Why would you assume otherwise? Like keeping one of the best 5 players in the game on the bench is actually something Rocco would do?

You came up with those game numbers pretty quickly-now do Correa when he's not on the IL.

As things stand right now today. It would be Santana Lewis Lee Miranda Wallner Larnach and Castro. I didn't do the catcher since that's a given that one day it's Jeffers the next day it's Vasquez. Sorry. I meant to use Riverbrians post.

[USAFChief]

23 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

Common ****ing sense.  Uncommon, I know.

Why would you assume otherwise? Like keeping one of the best 5 players in the game on the bench is actually something Rocco would do?

You came up with those game numbers pretty quickly-now do Correa when he's not on the IL.

Common sense? How's about some data?

You asked for  Correa. He went on the IL July 20. The Twins had played 96 games 

 Correa: 75. Four batting order positions: 2, 3, 4 and 5.

So he does it with the TWINS best player...why would you just assume he wouldn't do it if Witt were a Twin?

Rocco benches his best players all the time. C'mon. This has been discussed ad nauseum. "Maintenance days" etc etc etc. "Scheduled day off." Buxton, even when available, never goes even two series back go back.

He'll play Willi Castro pretty much every day, this year. I'll give you that. 

Which isn't a good thing, BTW, for multiple reasons.

 

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

1 hour ago, USAFChief said:

So easy to smugly dismiss the idea, but no actual defense of the manager.

To the OP: preach, 

The Twins need a MLB manager. This has been pretty evident for a couple years now.

 

 

But he's a nice guy and the Twins win more than lose in 2024 so long as it's the White Sox!

[Riverbrian]

3 minutes ago, Schmoeman5 said:

As things stand right now today. It would be Santana Lewis Lee Miranda Wallner Larnach and Castro. I didn't do the catcher since that's a given that one day it's Jeffers the next day it's Vasquez. Sorry. I meant to use Riverbrians post.

Thanks

I'm not being picky. LOL

But, the post is locking in Positions and Batting Order. 

[Schmoeman5]

2 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Common sense? How's about some data?

You asked for  Correa. He went on the IL July 20. The Twins had played 96 games 

 Correa: 75. Four batting order positions: 2, 3, 4 and 5.

Rocco benches his best players all the time. C'mon. This has been discussed ad nauseum. "Maintenance days" etc etc etc. "Scheduled day off."

 

I didn't look it up. So thanks. I had it in my mind that he had hit 1-5. I knew it was at least 4 different spots 

[C-Gangster]

1 hour ago, Maybe Next Year said:

I’m pretty sure I will be one of the few on this board but I say it’s time for Baldelli to go. Enough of his damn analytics.  Each day you have different guys playing different positions as well as different batting orders. There is no consistency whatsoever. He needs to play his best 8 position players in the same position for numerous games in a row. Same with the batting order. Yes, I know we are going through a lot of injuries to key players. Yes, I know these are supposed to be professionals. But that is no excuse for using a different lineup each and every day in the field and at the plate. The players need to be able to settle in and not wonder each day what their role will be. Baldelli over manages to the detriment of the team. 

Nope Balldeli stays.  he is probably one of the best managers in our history. he won AL manger of the year in 2019. personally i disagree . And i love rocco

[Schmoeman5]

17 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Thanks

I'm not being picky. LOL

But, the post is locking in Positions and Batting Order. 

Ok.   1 Castro CF.                                              2 Lewis 2B

        3 Miranda 3B

        4 Wallner RF

        5 Santana 1B 

        6 Larnach LF 

        7 Vasquez/Jeffers 

        8 Lee SS.

       9 Julien DH.

I don't trust his glove.

That's my 8 for how things stand today. 

 

                                    

[Riverbrian]

Just now, Schmoeman5 said:

Ok.   1 Castro CF.                                              2 Lewis 2B

        3 Miranda 3B

        4 Wallner RF

        5 Santana 1B 

        6 Larnach LF 

        7 Vasquez/Jeffers 

        8 Lee SS.

That's my 8 for how things stand for today. 

 

                                    

Thanks

I assume 8 was chosen by the OP because the catcher's position is not debateable. You will still need to fit a DH into the lineup. 

 

[USAFChief]

Last year.

26 seem to agree. 

 

 

[gregens]

57 minutes ago, Craig Arko said:

Well, he does have a winning record overall. I would consider him about average; certainly not exceptional. I’m skeptical about who would do any better with this group of players. https://www.baseball-reference.com/managers/baldero01.shtml

No disrespect intended, but I think we confuse what happened (overall winning record) with what impact the manager had on the said outcome.  More specifcally, what does Rocco do or what has he done that makes him a good manager.   I'd say he is below average at line up construction, pinch hitting moves, bullpen management, and running a fundamentally sound team. 

[Jocko87]

29 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Common sense? How's about some data?

You asked for  Correa. He went on the IL July 20. The Twins had played 96 games 

 Correa: 75. Four batting order positions: 2, 3, 4 and 5.

So he does it with the TWINS best player...why would you just assume he wouldn't do it if Witt were a Twin?

Rocco benches his best players all the time. C'mon. This has been discussed ad nauseum. "Maintenance days" etc etc etc. "Scheduled day off." Buxton, even when available, never goes even two series back go back.

He'll play Willi Castro pretty much every day, this year. I'll give you that. 

Which isn't a good thing, BTW, for multiple reasons.

 

Correa was also on the injured list in April.  I was told no math.

I’m all for criticisms of Rocco, I have several of my own as well, but please be realistic.  If you are really going with the line that if Rocco was presented a healthy unicorn, set and forget lineup option he would platoon it or something is just nuts. 

That Judge and Witt are remarkably healthy is actually a factor.  

Don’t forget how he suddenly morphed into the TwinsDaily ideal magically for the playoffs last year.  They have different priorities than you do.  You don’t have to like it.