With Kyle Farmer Returning to the Twins, Should Brooks Lee Be Sent to Minors?

[jmlease1]

It's going to be Lee or Martin when Farmer is done with his rehab assignment (unless someone else gets dinged and is sent to IL). This front office is exceptionally reticent to lose control of a player they think could be an asset or even move on from sunk costs.

They got burned hard by not having enough depth a few years ago and seem to have said to themselves that they'll never end up like that again. It's made them a little more risk-adverse than I think they should be, but at the same time the injuries do keep flowing.

Moving on from sunk costs is something most franchises struggle with, i think, but teams with smaller payrolls tend to have it worse. we're always chasing getting value out of a guy, in part because there might not be any money in the self-imposed team budget to get a replacement if the contingency plan doesn't work. I also would argue the generally risk-adverse nature of this front office comes into play here too, preferring to bank on a veteran finding their form over a younger player figuring it out for the first time.

[Mike Sixel]

42 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

Completely agree IF Lee is hitting at all and doesn’t also have a bad shoulder……..he isn’t & he does. Send him to 10 day IL and get the shoulder right, rested - he can be back in 10 days OR he gets a bunch of AB’s in St Paul after 10 days & he’s back in 3 weeks when roster expands.

He won't be back. Once a veteran hitter is here, they don't get cut. Not with this FO. 

[insagt1]

I suppose if Lee in NOT hurt, he needs to stay. If he is acutally too hurt to contribute right now, I like many of the suggestions posed in this thread. I think though that its important to get to September and post season, so playing hard in August is a must too. Making post season for Twins is not a slam dunk but they have held a WC most the season. But take nothing for granted. Look at how awful the O;s and Yanks have been playing lately.

[karcherd]

1 hour ago, JD-TWINS said:

Completely agree IF Lee is hitting at all and doesn’t also have a bad shoulder……..he isn’t & he does. Send him to 10 day IL and get the shoulder right, rested - he can be back in 10 days OR he gets a bunch of AB’s in St Paul after 10 days & he’s back in 3 weeks when roster expands.

Is Lee hurt, only have heard from Rocco.  Rocco also said Buxton was hurt but would 100% play on Friday and Buxton himself said on Sunday he would be in the lineup on Monday night.  And you can only call up one position in September, this isn't the old days where you can call everyone up on the 40 man roster.

Edit: Just been reported Lee is headed to the IL, I stand corrected.

[Craig Arko]

Lee to IL, Farmer up.

[Mike Sixel]

Super duper!

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, JD-TWINS said:

Not sure who deemed Farmer unable to play SS? Not a rah, rah guy for Farmer but he seems as competent as Castro at short based on what I’ve seen.

Farmer as back-up, there’s worse things.

Farmer will be activated soon - just a matter of who they demote. I think they send Martin down & Farmer/Lee platoon at 2B until Correa’s back and Castro can move to 2B.

He's back and not at short again.... 

[1985Fan]

Decision is made. Farmer is starting at 2nd base and Lee sis now on the 15 day IL. Ryan also on the IL. Sounds like he won’t pitch again this year. Stewart is on the 60 day IL for shoulder surgery. They recalled Scott Blewett for the BP, I guess as a replacement for Ryan. 

[Beast]

Do whatever is best for his development.  The big league club is dead in the water with Ryan’s injury because of the Pohlads (they created this mess with shortsighted business dealings and overall incompetence, and yes, by being cheap).  Even if they limp into the playoffs, it’ll be a bloodbath.  This is why you plan for injuries, not hope they won’t happen (especially with this roster’s history).

I’ve been disgusted with this ownership group plenty over the years.  Never more so than right now.  Just sell the damn team already.  We should be in a championship window and they’ve blown it.

[1985Fan]

Wow, many moves being made. I see that Matthews is listed as the starter for next Tuesday’s game vs. the Royals. I guess Matthews is taking Ryan’s spot and Blewett is filling Stewart’s roster spot. Good news is we get to see Matthews make his MLB debut, Exciting news! 

[Mike Sixel]

17 minutes ago, 1985Fan said:

Wow, many moves being made. I see that Matthews is listed as the starter for next Tuesday’s game vs. the Royals. I guess Matthews is taking Ryan’s spot and Blewett is filling Stewart’s roster spot. Good news is we get to see Matthews make his MLB debut, Exciting news! 

Where did you see the Matthews thing?

[JLoc]

I was at Wrigley for the Cubs series. Lee obviously was told to avoid throwing normal unless a ball was hit to him. His shoulder appears hurt pretty bad. Any throw he made was done as lightly as possible in warmups or around the horn. Lets get him healthy.

[Patzky]

3 hours ago, Blyleven2011 said:

Ditto to all the posted opinions  , it a tough decision  ...

And we have Kyle at 2nd today

 

[Patzky]

23 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Where did you see the Matthews thing?

Maybe we can Make it so Ober misses KC

[1985Fan]

29 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Where did you see the Matthews thing?

Saw it on CBS Sports baseball schedule for next Tuesday. No announcement from Twins or official move yet. I wonder where CBS got the info….

[Shaitan]

If Lee was injured at MLB, then he belongs on the MLB IL, not in the minors. The union will make sure of that.

As for Farmer, as if this horse wasn't dead enough... But he was also playing injured in June. It's possible that he performs closer to his career #s.

I'm not worked up over it either way. Correa is likely just a few days behind him, so whatever happens in temporary. Just like all roster moves.

[Mike Sixel]

5 minutes ago, Shaitan said:

If Lee was injured at MLB, then he belongs on the MLB IL, not in the minors. The union will make sure of that.

As for Farmer, as if this horse wasn't dead enough... But he was also playing injured in June. It's possible that he performs closer to his career #s.

I'm not worked up over it either way. Correa is likely just a few days behind him, so whatever happens in temporary. Just like all roster moves.

Oh, they'll send Martin down when CC comes up. Bank on it. Farmer is in MN to stay unless he's hurt.

[DJL44]

51 minutes ago, Shaitan said:

As for Farmer, as if this horse wasn't dead enough... But he was also playing injured in June. It's possible that he performs closer to his career #s.

According to Kris Atteberry he's had a chronic injury since the end of last season. That means the Twins tendered a contract to an injured player and let him perform poorly for months.

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, DJL44 said:

According to Kris Atteberry he's had a chronic injury since the end of last season. That means the Twins tendered a contract to an injured player and let him perform poorly for months.

What was the problem last year? But, yikes, how can you pay an injured guy that much money on a tight budget?

[lecroy24fan]

5 hours ago, karcherd said:

Everybody commenting on September callups, remember you can only go to 28 players, so only two additional players can be added.  And I believe one has to be a pitcher.  So September is not going to solve any supposed roster crunch. 

Does not have to be a pitcher as one. The rest of the season is a maximum of 13 pitchers on the roster and in September it is 14. But it can be under those numbers.

[karcherd]

9 minutes ago, lecroy24fan said:

Does not have to be a pitcher as one. The rest of the season is a maximum of 13 pitchers on the roster and in September it is 14. But it can be under those numbers.

Thank you for the clarification.  I am sure the front office would want an extra pitcher up especially with the injuries now.

[bean5302]

Should Brooks Lee remain on at the MLB level is the only question which really needs to be asked. The answer is no.
Julien was demoted after 190 PA with a  .205/.305/.367 .672 OPS, wRC+ 94 line.
Lee currently has 110 PA with a .253/.309/.333 .642 OPS, wRC+ 81 line

1-50% vs. 51-100% of PA prior to Julien's demotion
Julien = .222/.323/.531 OPS .854 wRC+ 138 vs. .193/.297/.216 OPS .513 wRC+ 56
Lee = .265/.302/.408 OPS .710 wRC+ 99 vs. .240/.316/.260 OPS .576 wRC+ 65

There are a lot of ways to analyze and compare Brooks Lee to other players, but the bottom line is he's not playing very well at all and hasn't been for a while.

After his first 6 games, Lee has been .187/.262/.240 OPS .503 wRC+ 43. Exit Velo has been 84.7mph.  Barrel rate 3.2%. Hard hit 19.4%. He's struggling vs almost every type of pitch with negative values against every single pitch type except splitters since then.

[lecroy24fan]

Difference is Julien proved himself last year and took 2, 3, maybe even 4 steps backward this season. I don't think he's even on the radar at this point unless half the IF gets hurt.

 

Lee should get a little more run when he gets back, unless the Twins are at full health. Then send him to AAA. Yes he's been rough at the plate for a bit, but his defense has been solid at worse. When rosters expand in September he can either be the 27th/28th man or continue playing everyday at AAA until they're eliminated from the playoff hunt. 

 

One more thing I'll add is I think it is probable he is starting at 2B tio start 2025.

[Shaitan]

7 hours ago, DJL44 said:

According to Kris Atteberry he's had a chronic injury since the end of last season. That means the Twins tendered a contract to an injured player and let him perform poorly for months.

It explains his performance in '24 so far.

But I hope Atteberry's word choice is wrong. Because chronic means it won't go away.

This stuff sounds bad when it's told anecdotally like this, but the truth is that few players are 100% and it's such a fine line between "too injured" (Kiriloff) and "aches and pains." Sometimes this FO puts a player on IL instantly, sometimes not. I'm not going to read too much into it, other than hoping he's better now.

[Shaitan]

7 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

What was the problem last year? But, yikes, how can you pay an injured guy that much money on a tight budget?

Emphasis added. That's the big question here. "A chronic injury" is pretty vague.

[DJL44]

3 minutes ago, Shaitan said:

Emphasis added. That's the big question here. "A chronic injury" is pretty vague.

Having trouble lifting his arm above his head was one thing mentioned.

[Rosterman]

When Correa comes back, he goes to the minors. Sadly, Austin Martin will also go abck to the minors while we keep Margot and Farmer...because they are being paid big bucks and are vets.

[arby58]

21 hours ago, Rufus said:

It's only a couple of weeks until the Sept. call ups.  Martin is needed in the outfield, especially with Buxton hurting.   Sending Lee down for a couple of weeks might help him refine his stroke.  It has done so for others.  If Farmer does massively fail when reactivated he can still be DFAed the and Lee recalled.   

September 1 expansion is to 28 players, so only two more, and no more than 14 pitchers. My guess is the Twins will add another pitcher, so that only leaves 1 slot for a position player come September 1st.

[arby58]

7 hours ago, Rosterman said:

When Correa comes back, he goes to the minors. Sadly, Austin Martin will also go abck to the minors while we keep Margot and Farmer...because they are being paid big bucks and are vets.

At this point in the season, it's not a 'big bucks' issue (if it ever was). Margot's OPS versus left handed starting pitching is .847, and that is why he is batting lead-off in those situations. He has some value (although not nearly as much against right handers), and if part of a platoon, he's effective. If the left-handed outfielders (Kepler in particular) were performing as well against right handed pitching, the Twins would be just fine offensively. Kepler's OPS versus right handed starting pitching is .687. Unlike his career splits, he is doing better this year against left handed starting pitching. You can't blame the Twins for not seeing that in their pre-season crystal ball. 

[Shaitan]

13 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Having trouble lifting his arm above his head was one thing mentioned.

I'm starting to think we'll see more changes to the training staff in November-December.