How Much More Time Does Carlos Santana Have?

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

In fairness, Solano wasn't signed to a MLB deal and could have a similar fate to Santana if / when he's called up.

[chpettit19]

54 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Pro tip: before posting in this thread, check the following article to make sure you weren't "for it before you were against it."

 

I only had 1 post in that 6 page thread. That may be the most negative thing I've ever done on this site. His signing wasn't even worth me arguing with strangers on the internet. That's where this offseason took us. Me not even caring enough to throw stats around and argue. So sad.

[Mike Sixel]

10 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

I checked, my take holds up - signing Santana prevented them from signing someone better. Brandon Belt - who outhit every Twin except Royce Lewis in 2023 - is sitting at home waiting for someone to give him a job. Jose Miranda is showing that he's a better option as a RH platoon bat at 1B. Even if we assume a bounce back for Santana from terrible to mediocre. this is a simple move to make. Bench him until they can work out a contract with Belt and then release him.

Could be worse, see the Astros and Jose Abreu.

There must be a reason belt isn't signed

[dex8425]

53 minutes ago, thelanges5 said:

Just like Gallo last year 👎🏻

Gallo at least carried the lineup most of April. Santana has been completely forgettable.

[Kenny Powers]

I personally think it's time to move on from Santana.  But the problem lies in who do you replace him with?  We just don't have a ton of guys earning more ABs in the system right now.  Most likely as guys start coming back from injury - Santana will be gone (barring an unforeseen turnaround in his hitting).

[USAFChief]

35 minutes ago, Twins_Fan_in_NJ said:

I thought Santana was going to be good for a 20 HRs, a discerning eye at the plate and solid defense at 1B. He didn't just fall off a cliff. He feel into the Grand Canyon. In hindsight, re-signing Solano at half the price and using the leftovers for someone like Lorenzen would've been the move. But, alas. 

Solano wasn't what this team needed either.

[Rod Carews Birthday]

1 hour ago, mickster said:

When Correa comes back, I would expect Margo to be DFA's and then when Royce returns Sanata will go.   Keeping Martin, Larnach and Miranda.    Another injury scuttles this though..   Additionally I think that if Kepler gets hot he will be unloaded for a back end of the rotation arm.

Good thought, but that back end of the rotation arm would need to be pretty far back end!  He is here to tease and tantalize us with more maybes again.  And sadly they don’t have anybody to replace Kepler at the moment.  

[jkcarew]

1 hour ago, stringer bell said:

Santana has not been a part-time player. He's been a major league regular since 2011, exceeding 500 plate appearances every year except the COVID year (when he played every game).

And? Players change roles as they get older, and performance ebbs. All the time. He also used to make $21M a year…the Twins got him for $5M…so, it’s not like the money he signed for precludes that role or would be a ‘surprise’. It’s pretty obvious that there weren’t many…if any…other clubs out there “promising” him a full time role.

[Byrdman]

Well, the Twins need to do something to get a fire lit for this team.  Fire the hitting coach and his awful philosophy. The Santana signing was a terrible signing and made me old man groan when it was announced.  I would of rolled with Miranda and AK and picked up more pitching but what do i know.  

[Rod Carews Birthday]

I would like to think Santana’s leash isn’t very long, but right now there isn’t anyone forcing him off the 26 man roster.  Maybe when Correa and eventually Royce Lewis come back he could be gone (and that depends on nobody else getting hurt!) but it’s probably still only a maybe.  

[Riverbrian]

I remain willing to give him a chance. If he can produce like he did last year... we will be OK. 

My overall concern is unchanged... and it's the question posed in the title of this article. How much time will he be granted... if he can't produce like he did last year. My fear is that he will be rostered for the entire year even if he struggles the entire year. So let's hope it doesn't come to that because he performs like he did last year.  

To me the larger question is this: Are we better off with Polanco and Martin/Whoever on the opening day roster over Santana and Margot. 

I'll take Polanco.  

 

[stringer bell]

9 minutes ago, jkcarew said:

And? Players change roles as they get older, and performance ebbs. All the time. It’s not like the money he signed for precludes that role…and it’s pretty obvious that there weren’t many…if any…other clubs out there “promising” him a full time role.

It's a data point, I guess. Santana has been traded several times and signed one-year free agent contracts, but has always been a full-time player. He was coming off his best season in several years. I don't know if any promises about playing time were made (I would hope not), but all Santana has ever done is show up and play.

[jkcarew]

2 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

It's a data point, I guess. Santana has been traded several times and signed one-year free agent contracts, but has always been a full-time player. He was coming off his best season in several years. I don't know if any promises about playing time were made (I would hope not), but all Santana has ever done is show up and play.

I would say, that a guy who made $21M/yr…five years in the past…signs for $5M/yr in 2024…he probably expects a diminished role, as would be a reasonable expectation of the fans of that team.

[Mike Sixel]

8 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

I remain willing to give him a chance. If he can produce like he did last year... we will be OK. 

My overall concern is unchanged... and it's the question posed in the title of this article. How much time will he granted... if he can't produce like he did last year. My fear is that he will be rostered for the entire year even if he struggles the entire year. So let's hope it doesn't come to that because he performs like he did last year.  

To me the larger question is this: Are we better off with Polanco and Martin/Whoever on the opening day roster over Santana and Margot. 

I'll take Polanco.  

 

Polanco is gone. He's not an option. 

[Riverbrian]

2 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Polanco is gone. He's not an option. 

Thanks for the information. 

When did that happen? Was Polanco traded or something? 

It's really hard for me to keep up. 

Thank You

[Mike Sixel]

14 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Thanks for the information. 

When did that happen? Was Polanco traded or something? 

It's really hard for me to keep up. 

Thank You

I'm not relitigating things in the past. The question is, what now? Feel free if you want to mention polanco. 

[Danchat]

1 hour ago, Vanimal46 said:

This is a classic Twins FA signing we’ve seen so many times over the years. Late 30s/early 40s with their last good season being 2+ years before joining Minnesota. They almost never work out, and they end up spending way too much time on the MLB roster. 

While I agree with the archetype, Santana's 2023 at the plate was considerably better than 2020-2022 so he doesn't fit the "it's been 2+ years before having a good season"... of course that doesn't justify paying up a 38 year old hitter in a year where the payroll is condensed.

It does absolutely fit the "clearly past his prime" archetype, and Santana ain't Cruz.

[nicksaviking]

26 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

I remain willing to give him a chance. If he can produce like he did last year... we will be OK. 

My overall concern is unchanged... and it's the question posed in the title of this article. How much time will he be granted... if he can't produce like he did last year. My fear is that he will be rostered for the entire year even if he struggles the entire year. So let's hope it doesn't come to that because he performs like he did last year.  

To me the larger question is this: Are we better off with Polanco and Martin/Whoever on the opening day roster over Santana and Margot. 

I'll take Polanco.  

 

First, yes, second, if those are the only two choices, someone isn't doing their job. Santana shouldn't have been an option if there were zero first basemen left on the free agent market.

Honestly, I'm not sweating this season as the team was never going to amount to a contender, so I'm at the point of hoping Joe Pohald reaps what he sows. If you don't eat your meat, how can you have any pudding. You won't give me a championship caliber team? I hope you pay for it in attendance and viewership. Learn your lesson and do better next year.

[nicksaviking]

3 minutes ago, Danchat said:

While I agree with the archetype, Santana's 2023 at the plate was considerably better than 2020-2022 so he doesn't fit the "it's been 2+ years before having a good season"... of course that doesn't justify paying up a 38 year old hitter in a year where the payroll is condensed.

It does absolutely fit the "clearly past his prime" archetype, and Santana ain't Cruz.

Very few people believed in 28-year-old Cody Bellinger's bounce back season; nobody should have believed in 38-year-old Carlos Santana's bounce back season. I can't find a player who was bad for three seasons in their mid 30s and suddenly reestablished their glory for more than one season in their late 30s. One season? Yeah, happens from time to time, two seasons? Quite possibly never in the history of the game.

[mickster]

54 minutes ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

Good thought, but that back end of the rotation arm would need to be pretty far back end!  He is here to tease and tantalize us with more maybes again.  And sadly they don’t have anybody to replace Kepler at the moment.  

It would be a 4 or 5 spot - but he is a FA at season end.    With the youth arriving, I think Wallner would be his replacement if he starts making more contact.   We need to sell as high as we can on Max as he won't be brought back

[Riverbrian]

4 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

First, yes, second, if those are the only two choices, someone isn't doing their job. Santana shouldn't have been an option if there were zero first basemen left on the free agent market.

Honestly, I'm not sweating this season as the team was never going to amount to a contender, so I'm at the point of hoping Joe Pohald reaps what he sows. If you don't eat your meat, how can you have any pudding. You won't give me a championship caliber team? I hope you pay for it in attendance and viewership. Learn your lesson and do better next year.

So Santana is just another brick in the wall for you. 

You got your classic rock mixed up. 

You could tell Pink Floyd Pohlad that he needs to change his "Evil Ways... before you stop loving him". 

 

 

 

 

[DJL44]

1 minute ago, mickster said:

We need to sell as high as we can on Max as he won't be brought back

I'm 100% in favor of this. Max goes for the best prospects available at the deadline.

[nicksaviking]

1 minute ago, DJL44 said:

I'm 100% in favor of this. Max goes for the best prospects available at the deadline.

Even if Kepler returned to his 2021-22 self, the Twins would probably have to eat most of his salary to even get a no-name prospect back. And he's a long ways away from his previously low point of 21-22.

[DJL44]

5 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Even if Kepler returned to his 2021-22 self, the Twins would probably have to eat most of his salary to even get a no-name prospect back. And he's a long ways away from his previously low point of 21-22.

He still needs to go, giving the playing time to Larnach, Wallner and Kirilloff will be more important in August and September.

[Mike Sixel]

26 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

First, yes, second, if those are the only two choices, someone isn't doing their job. Santana shouldn't have been an option if there were zero first basemen left on the free agent market.

Honestly, I'm not sweating this season as the team was never going to amount to a contender, so I'm at the point of hoping Joe Pohald reaps what he sows. If you don't eat your meat, how can you have any pudding. You won't give me a championship caliber team? I hope you pay for it in attendance and viewership. Learn your lesson and do better next year.

I'm afraid that's not the lesson he'll learn..... But I share your sentiment. It's another reason to go young this year, to weed out guys and get others experience. 

[bean5302]

I expect Santana has months. Literally, months of leash time with this front office. Gallo was arguably the worst player in baseball after May last year. The Twins kept calling his number right up until they left him off the playoff roster.

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, bean5302 said:

I expect Santana has months. Literally, months of leash time with this front office. Gallo was arguably the worst player in baseball after May last year. The Twins kept calling his number right up until they left him off the playoff roster.

Rocco barely played him the last two months, but he took a roster spot. 

[chpettit19]

1 hour ago, jkcarew said:

I would say, that a guy who made $21M/yr…five years in the past…signs for $5M/yr in 2024…he probably expects a diminished role, as would be a reasonable expectation of the fans of that team.

5 years ago is skipping a lot of time to make this point. In 2020 he got 7 mil. In 2021 he got 7.25 mil. In 2022 he got 10.5. In 2023 he got 6.6 mil. He was a fulltime player in all of those seasons. Looking at his pay from 5 years ago and saying he got a significant pay cut and tying that to a significant decrease in role while ignoring the fact that he took only a 1.5 mil pay cut from just last season when he was a fulltime player for 2 teams is awfully skewed data. He hasn't been making big money for quite some time but he's still been a fulltime player.

[Riverbrian]

51 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I'm not relitigating things in the past. The question is, what now? Feel free if you want to mention polanco. 

You and I know already know the answer to the what now. 

He will remain a Minnesota Twin until at least the trade deadline. He will not only remain in uniform... he will play on a fairly regular basis. 

If the Twins are out of contention in July... IF... If he has a somewhat decent year someone in contention might provide a low level prospect for him. If he doesn't have a decent year... nobody will want him on the roster of a contending team and he will stay.  

If we are in contention... he is probably having a decent enough year and he will not be traded at the deadline.  

The only way the Twins release him is if gets hurt and his replacement knocks the cover off the ball while the cover is still on his ball.

If he doesn't get hurt... his replacement will not arrive to knock the cover off the ball and therefore he stays and whatever he produces... will be what he produces. 

I wish him well... I'm not going to make a definitive statement based on a slow start. But... my worry of not moving on if he continues to struggle remains and nothing the Twins have done in the past suggest I shouldn't be worried about that.   

[Mike Sixel]

3 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

You and I know already know the answer to the what now. 

He will remain a Minnesota Twin until at least the trade deadline. He will not only remain in uniform... he will play on a fairly regular basis. 

If the Twins are out of contention in July... IF... If he has a somewhat decent year someone in contention might provide a low level prospect for him. If he doesn't have a decent year... nobody will want him on the roster of a contending team and he will stay.  

If we are in contention... he is probably having a decent enough year and he will not be traded at the deadline.  

The only way the Twins release him is if gets hurt and his replacement knocks the cover off the ball while the cover is still on his ball.

If he doesn't get hurt... his replacement will not arrive to knock the cover off the ball and therefore he stays and whatever he produces... will be what he produces. 

I wish him well... I'm not going to make a definitive statement based on a slow start. But... my worry of not moving on if he continues to struggle remains and nothing the Twins have done in the past suggest I shouldn't be worried about that.   

Agree with all this