Tigers 6, Twins 1: Varland Rocked, Offense Remains Dormant in Loss

[OvertheHill]

44 minutes ago, RpR said:

In Spring Training his BA against Lefties was .000 in 12 at bat with 4 Ks; unless the Twins have decided the season is over, if he can't do it there it would be stupid to think he could learn it here.

The results would probably screw up his train of though and ruin what he does have going.

So what you’re saying is that very small ST sample is projectable, and it would result in something materially worse than the near zero that we’re going to get with Santana or Margot taking those AB’s over the course of the season? Don’t you think that we’re going to need to see if AK can get his big boy pants on and be passable against lefties, or are we conceding that he’s only ever going to be a platoon guy? I feel like his career dies a little every time he gets yanked for a pinch hitter. 

[Jocko87]

50 minutes ago, jkcarew said:

Didn’t see it.

Does Jack Jack get hit incredibly hard over and over? And over? Until someone mercifully takes him out of the fight?

Yes, but if you watch the scene once he harnesses his newfound powers his dad had to save the racoon.

Not saying your scenerio isn't possible but either way it will take a couple of months to sort out. We aren't close to a merciful ending yet. Hero arc still available.

[Althebum82]

While no one expected Kyle Farmer and Willi Castro to carry this team, they were certainly both key contributors last season each with their own moments in the sun.  Right now, their offensive accomplishments more closely match that of Kyle Gibson and Willie Banks during their time with this franchise. 

 

[RpR]

15 minutes ago, OvertheHill said:

So what you’re saying is that very small ST sample is projectable, and it would result in something materially worse than the near zero that we’re going to get with Santana or Margot taking those AB’s over the course of the season? Don’t you think that we’re going to need to see if AK can get his big boy pants on and be passable against lefties, or are we conceding that he’s only ever going to be a platoon guy? I feel like his career dies a little every time he gets yanked for a pinch hitter. 

That is what AAA is for,  not the Majors.

From 2023:

Spring Training showed he is not better against Lefties.

[Beast]

This is special.  We are witnessing a generationally incompetent combination of ownership and management begin [another] death spiral in front of our eyes.

In an attempt to save $10-20 million on a potentially multibillion dollar company, they may have set off a chain of events that will cost them much more over the next handful of years (both realized and in terms of franchise value).

Between the sport declining in popularity, the overall economic conditions, the PR problems of Minneapolis in general (agree or not, it’s a thing), the T-Wolves skyrocketing popularity (and franchise value), the Vikings smoke wagon rolling on the excitement of the draft and a new franchise QB, and their unwatchable product, there’s potential for some puckering here.

I’m no market savant, but I’d certainly be starting to ask about the direction they’re taking if I were an investor.

The board meetings must be fun right now.

[UK Twin]

While things look really ugly right now, I can see light at the end of the tunnel.

Firstly, we have 4 games against the White Sox coming right up. 3 wins required here, 4 would be ideal. 

Secondly, Lewis has already resumed baseball activities so is ahead of schedule, even if he is still out for a while. And Correa should be back soon. Then we have Duran about to start a rehab assignment. The injury list will start shrinking very soon. 

Thirdly, the only SP I have real concerns about is Varland. And I think it's time to give SWR a go in his spot. Ober looks to have shrugged his horrendous opening start.

We just need the hitters not named Kirilloff or Jeffers to start producing. Martin's done a decent job TBF but there a number of veteran hitters who need to step up and deliver. Santana has been woeful. And I'm patiently waiting for Buxton to hit one out. Good opportunity for hitters to find some form against the White Sox.

[Fezig]

10 hours ago, jkcarew said:

You’re speaking in general, right? There’s certainly nothing Rocco could have done to change today’s outcome.

And even at that, I wouldn’t suggest any ONE person got the club into this spot, nor will it be ONE to get them out.

In general is correct. The team is playing at the level of the dugout leadership. 

[bighat]

Worst offense in baseball and it's not close. Impossible to watch. I'm checked out, maybe I'll start watching again if they get close to .500. I like sports teams that are fun and/or interesting.  This team is neither. 

[Doctor Wu]

13 hours ago, D.C Twins said:

If it does, it is going to be hard to 'pass' the White Sox for the #1 draft pick as they seem committed setting the MLB season loss record this year. 

But ... there is always Oakland!

[Riverbrian]

11 hours ago, Jocko87 said:

It's kinda like when Jack Jack fights the racoon in the Incredibles.

Yep... it's there.

The flames, green laser eyes, he has the stuff. Hasn't figured out how to harness it yet. 

Yesterday it was like Darrin (pick your favorite) from Bewitched telling him don't wiggle your nose. 

He seemed to be throwing more off-speed stuff than normal and missing with it. 

 

[Riverbrian]

4 hours ago, UK Twin said:

While things look really ugly right now, I can see light at the end of the tunnel.

Firstly, we have 4 games against the White Sox coming right up. 3 wins required here, 4 would be ideal. 

Secondly, Lewis has already resumed baseball activities so is ahead of schedule, even if he is still out for a while. And Correa should be back soon. Then we have Duran about to start a rehab assignment. The injury list will start shrinking very soon. 

Thirdly, the only SP I have real concerns about is Varland. And I think it's time to give SWR a go in his spot. Ober looks to have shrugged his horrendous opening start.

We just need the hitters not named Kirilloff or Jeffers to start producing. Martin's done a decent job TBF but there a number of veteran hitters who need to step up and deliver. Santana has been woeful. And I'm patiently waiting for Buxton to hit one out. Good opportunity for hitters to find some form against the White Sox.

I gave you a thumps up because I appreciate the light at the end of the tunnel optimism. 

I'll just temper it a bit. 

Don't count on the White Sox to fix what ails us. 

Our offense is producing so little that every team in the league is constantly within striking distance. 

There are teams that are producing 2 runs to our 1.

It's bad. 

 

[Peter]

Totally thought twins would take series against Detroit-safe to say varland is done as starting pitcher. Bring up SWR!!! Also need to take 3 against white Sox if not all 4 anything less is unacceptable. Still have hope twins can get back to .500 once fully healthy. Don’t give up on them yet!!! Twins need our support!!!

[NotAboutWinning]

57 minutes ago, Doctor Wu said:

But ... there is always Oakland!

Oakland currently has a better record than the Twins... Ouch ☹️

[Major League Ready]

10 hours ago, Beast said:

This is special.  We are witnessing a generationally incompetent combination of ownership and management begin [another] death spiral in front of our eyes.

In an attempt to save $10-20 million on a potentially multibillion dollar company, they may have set off a chain of events that will cost them much more over the next handful of years (both realized and in terms of franchise value).

Between the sport declining in popularity, the overall economic conditions, the PR problems of Minneapolis in general (agree or not, it’s a thing), the T-Wolves skyrocketing popularity (and franchise value), the Vikings smoke wagon rolling on the excitement of the draft and a new franchise QB, and their unwatchable product, there’s potential for some puckering here.

I’m no market savant, but I’d certainly be starting to ask about the direction they’re taking if I were an investor.

The board meetings must be fun right now.

For starters, the sport is doing just fine with record revenue last year.  The bigger markets are making a killing.  It's getting tougher for the teams with similar revenue.  However, the Twins are 4th in win percentage when compared to the bottom 17 teams in terms of revenue since Falvey took over.  The only three that have done better are among the lowest spending teams in MLB.  

WIN % Since 2017
1	Tampa	0.573
2	Brewers	0.555
3	Cleveland	0.551
4	TWINS	0.521
5	Mariners	0.514
6	Blue Jays	0.504
7	Oakland	0.485
8	Dbacks	0.480
9	Padres	0.479
10	Rockies	0.461
11	White Sox	0.456
12	Reds	0.453
13	Marlins	0.434
14	Pirates	0.430
15	Orioles	0.424
16	Tigers	0.406
17	Royals	0.405

 

[David Maro]

Varland is a batting practice pitcher at best.He is on the mound as a thrower not a pitcher.He seems to think the faster he releases his pitches the better.The team is so bad at this time they can't afford to just give games away.It is time to send him to St Paul and get SWR his opportunity.And people seem to forget Paddock has yet to show that he is a SP for this team.The next 2 weeks are the season for this team,they are already back 8 games in the division.

[Woof Bronzer]

3 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

For starters, the sport is doing just fine with record revenue last year.  The bigger markets are making a killing.  It's getting tougher for the teams with similar revenue.  However, the Twins are 4th in win percentage when compared to the bottom 17 teams in terms of revenue since Falvey took over.  The only three that have done better are among the lowest spending teams in MLB.  

WIN % Since 2017
				1	Tampa		0.573
2	Brewers		0.555
3	Cleveland		0.551
4	TWINS		0.521
5	Mariners		0.514
6	Blue Jays		0.504
7	Oakland		0.485
8	Dbacks		0.480
9	Padres		0.479
10	Rockies		0.461
11	White Sox		0.456
12	Reds		0.453
13	Marlins		0.434
14	Pirates		0.430
15	Orioles		0.424
16	Tigers		0.406
17	Royals		0.405

Ah yes, who can forget all our "4th best regular season winning percentage (excluding half the league)" banners! 

In a town and a team famous for its low bars, this is the lowest I think I've ever heard.  We have the 4th best regular season winning percentage if you leave out half the league.  That might be the saddest sentence I've ever typed.  

 

[DJL44]

10 hours ago, Beast said:

This is special.  We are witnessing a generationally incompetent combination of ownership and management begin [another] death spiral in front of our eyes.

In an attempt to save $10-20 million on a potentially multibillion dollar company, they may have set off a chain of events that will cost them much more over the next handful of years (both realized and in terms of franchise value).

Between the sport declining in popularity, the overall economic conditions, the PR problems of Minneapolis in general (agree or not, it’s a thing), the T-Wolves skyrocketing popularity (and franchise value), the Vikings smoke wagon rolling on the excitement of the draft and a new franchise QB, and their unwatchable product, there’s potential for some puckering here.

I’m no market savant, but I’d certainly be starting to ask about the direction they’re taking if I were an investor.

The board meetings must be fun right now.

It's probably a good thing that they negotiated a TV deal with a channel nobody has access to. This is not the team to roll out to a broad audience.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

13 hours ago, jkcarew said:

I wouldn’t suggest any ONE person got the club into this spot, nor will it be ONE to get them out.

Hmmm, who made the decisions to obtain Margot ($4,000,000), Sanatana ($5,250,000), pay Farmer $6,250,000 and trade for that 5th starter DeSclafani ($4,000,000), who was already hurt and who went down at spring training? That adds up to $19,500,000, which could have been spent better. However, as they say, an armchair quarterback is always right. :) 

[Major League Ready]

1 minute ago, Woof Bronzer said:

Ah yes, who can forget all our "4th best regular season winning percentage (excluding half the league)" banners! 

In a town and a team famous for its low bars, this is the lowest I think I've ever heard.  We have the 4th best regular season winning percentage if you leave out half the league.  That might be the saddest sentence I've ever typed.  

 

Your company gives one group of 15 employees $1M each for a project and they give another group of your peers $2M for the same project.  Would you think it was fair if they fired the bottom 15 people based on results without considering budget?  Of course not.  Money matters and expecting the same results for half the money is not rational.

BTW .... They rank 11th in win percentage among all teams.  So, to insist an above average outcome is "generational incompetence is an irrational rant. 

[JD-TWINS]

16 hours ago, Bob Twins Fan Since 61 said:

They are missing major hitters in Correa, Lewis, and lesser extend Kepler in their line-up.  The remaining hitters clearly are not picking any of the slack.  Varland looks completely over-whelmed today.  I'm probably stating the obvious but cutting the pay roll by 30 million definitely impacted talent level.  Which might have help mecate the impact of the injuries.   This is starting to get ugly.  I am kind questioning all this platooning too. Our pinch-hitting statistics are horrendous.  Maybe try going with a more set line-up is worth a try.

Pinch hitting success % is a problem? We only have 3-4 guys that can be expected to hit at all and a couple more on the fringe of hope.

Kirilloff - Larnach - Martin - Jeffers have a chance (2 of which weren’t on Opening Day Roster)……..Buxton - Julien are on the fringe ……..the rest of the other 7 guys are interchangeable and producing nothing! Any small advantage the Team can squeak out “potentially” with a correct side platoon or a pinch hitter, they gotta try it to make anything positive happen.

He’s not pinch hitting for Rod Carew. Even Kirilloff, as the leading hitter right now, is very mediocre v. LH pitching - gotta create opportunities for hits & runs.

Did anyone watch Camargo on Saturday? He looks like he may be a year and a half away from getting any serious time in the Show. With Lee/Lewis/Correa/Kepler all out & Wallner having disappeared, they have very few reasonable options.

Farmer/Castro/Santana/Margot are ALL major disappointments!!!! ……..When is Castro going to TRY a bunt??

Not really sure Varland has the mental make-up to be a successful starter? Honestly, I don’t think so…………I think he’s built to be effective in short bursts, regardless of the Team’s need for him to be a starter. Hopefully, they can find some way for him to contribute.

[gunnarthor]

11 hours ago, Beast said:

This is special.  We are witnessing a generationally incompetent combination of ownership and management begin [another] death spiral in front of our eyes.

In an attempt to save $10-20 million on a potentially multibillion dollar company, they may have set off a chain of events that will cost them much more over the next handful of years (both realized and in terms of franchise value).

Between the sport declining in popularity, the overall economic conditions, the PR problems of Minneapolis in general (agree or not, it’s a thing), the T-Wolves skyrocketing popularity (and franchise value), the Vikings smoke wagon rolling on the excitement of the draft and a new franchise QB, and their unwatchable product, there’s potential for some puckering here.

I’m no market savant, but I’d certainly be starting to ask about the direction they’re taking if I were an investor.

The board meetings must be fun right now.

I don't think things are quite as bad overall as you suggest but I'm sure people in charge are aware of those concerns, to some degree.  

My personal feeling is that ownership doesn't realize how much fans hate the Pohlad family after all these years but that's another thread. 

[laloesch]

16 hours ago, D.C Twins said:

Injured hitters will be back over the next month or two..... there are no such reinforcements coming for SP. 

We are one SP injury away (Lopez, Ryan or Ober) from this entire season bottoming out. 

If it does, it is going to be hard to 'pass' the White Sox for the #1 draft pick as they seem committed setting the MLB season loss record this year. 

Yeah the Sox are bad, Twins are a close second right now.  Offense is THAT bad, brutally bad.  What is it 7 or 8 players in the lineup hitting below the Mendoza line.  Absolutely atrocious.    

[John Belinski]

16 hours ago, Brazilian Twins Fan said:

Is it too early to start shopping some players at the trade deadline?

It doesn't appear that the Twins have many players that other teams would want except for a couple of starting pitchers. Twins need leadership or this season is over.

[Whitey333]

Twins play the double AA White Sox posing as a major league team 7 of their next 10 games.  They are pitiful as their 3-18 record shows.  Twins really need to sweep all those 7 games.  Not likely but anything less than a 5-2 would be a major concern.  Maybe they can get in a groove and carry it over when they then play tougher teams.  Go Twins.

[bean5302]

I don't think I saw anybody mention this, but Varland's 47% strike vs. 53% ball rate isn't going to win any games. 

[laloesch]

2 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

Pinch hitting success % is a problem? We only have 3-4 guys that can be expected to hit at all and a couple more on the fringe of hope.

Kirilloff - Larnach - Martin - Jeffers have a chance (2 of which weren’t on Opening Day Roster)……..Buxton - Julien are on the fringe ……..the rest of the other 7 guys are interchangeable and producing nothing! Any small advantage the Team can squeak out “potentially” with a correct side platoon or a pinch hitter, they gotta try it to make anything positive happen.

He’s not pinch hitting for Rod Carew. Even Kirilloff, as the leading hitter right now, is very mediocre v. LH pitching - gotta create opportunities for hits & runs.

Did anyone watch Camargo on Saturday? He looks like he may be a year and a half away from getting any serious time in the Show. With Lee/Lewis/Correa/Kepler all out & Wallner having disappeared, they have very few reasonable options.

Farmer/Castro/Santana/Margot are ALL major disappointments!!!! ……..When is Castro going to TRY a bunt??

Not really sure Varland has the mental make-up to be a successful starter? Honestly, I don’t think so…………I think he’s built to be effective in short bursts, regardless of the Team’s need for him to be a starter. Hopefully, they can find some way for him to contribute.

 Couldn't have said it better myself.  You have a group of fans here that insists on constantly blaming ownership for 100% of everything because they are billionaires, blah blah blah. The ACTUAL truth is that a lot of this is not ownership fault per say but VERY, VERY, POOR TO BAD player performance with a lot of the guys already here from last year.  And some of it is Falvey's fault with the bad or questionable acquisitions (Santana, Margot, Polanco for Anthony DeSclafani, etc.).  They didn't have to sign Santana, they didn't have to make the Polanco trade, etc.  They could have dumped Farmer for a cash savings.  A lot of this situation falls on Falvey's shoulders.

I would also argue the big overlook (maybe intentional) is Rocco.  Rocco and his staff appear to have utterly completely failed to get these guys ready in spring training as they never looked prepared from the start.  They were brutally bad in spring training and they are brutally bad now.  I mean seriously, we have 8-9 players on the roster hitting south of .200 and most of them barely .100.  That's complete lack of preparation, not being ready, etc.  That's ROCCO's fault and the other coaches. 

Not having Lewis hurts this team a lot, but Bux who was supposed to be the savior this year and finally healthy has played like complete crap so far, Julien has been HORRIBLE, and Vazquez even worse.  Then you have the hideous outputs of Kepler, Farmer, Wallner, Margot, Santana, and the list goes on.  At what point do you just start dumping these dudes on the street with pink slips?