Should the Twins Pursue Slugger Jorge Soler to Beef Up Lineup?

[RpR]

49 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

I was on the fence with Soler but you guys have me convinced.  He is probably the best fit left out there.  The Twins are at 114M right now so he would put them at $130 which is within the range we have heard.   Don't think Duvall is a good fit because he does not hit LHP any better than RHP.  Merrifield makes no sense.  We don't need to say money to fill multiple roles or add a BP piece.  Let's get one guy who can make an impact.  We have a lot of BP depth at this point.  

Twins have had recent years with poor defense; they were lousy.

If you want to return to that then , fine, time to trade for Rooker, Cave, Celestino .

They will be cheap and the Twins can pick up a Top Rank pitcher , of course he has to not mind a Chinese-Fire-Drill for an outfield.

[DJL44]

39 minutes ago, miracleb said:

The dude turned down 15M per year..........

No, he turned down 1 year $13M. Two years $26M would be better.

[DJL44]

5 minutes ago, RpR said:

Twins have had recent years with poor defense; they were lousy.

Right now the depth chart at Fangraphs has Willi Castro starting at DH. There's room for a bat.

[Nashvilletwin]

4 minutes ago, RpR said:

Twins have had recent years with poor defense; they were lousy.

If you want to return to that then , fine, time to trade for Rooker, Cave, Celestino .

They will be cheap and the Twins can pick up a Top Rank pitcher , of course he has to not mind a Chinese-Fire-Drill for an outfield.

We obviously are not going to have a + fielder at every position in every game during every inning. Such an expectation is unrealistic, particularly when weighing offensive needs.

As it relates to our current outfield of Buxton, Kepler, Wallner and Castro, we are probably substantially above average from a defensive standpoint (Wallner is underrated in this regard and improving).  Moreover, as contemplated, Soler would primarily fill the DH slot; thereby minimising his defensive liabilities.  Sure, he will play some games in the field (primarily most likely against lefties) and when he does, we will not be at our strongest defensively. But our other fielders are more than solid.

Yes, Soler in the field is not ideal; however, when combined with his advantages at the plate, it surely is not disqualifying. 

[tony&rodney]

We all are waiting to be surprised apparently. Soler for 3/$36M or 2/$26M seems like a pile of dough when the Twins just had to unload their 3-hole bat to save some money. But, hey, bring on the surprises. As long as we are at it, trade for Burnes, Gilbert, Luzardo, etc. It all seems surreal somehow and at a price of near $125 million too. We wait for miracles to descend from Falvey's office. It's all good.

[Major League Ready]

41 minutes ago, RpR said:

Twins have had recent years with poor defense; they were lousy.

If you want to return to that then , fine, time to trade for Rooker, Cave, Celestino .

They will be cheap and the Twins can pick up a Top Rank pitcher , of course he has to not mind a Chinese-Fire-Drill for an outfield.

He would primarily be a DH and start some against LHP.  

[Nashvilletwin]

13 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

We all are waiting to be surprised apparently. Soler for 3/$36M or 2/$26M seems like a pile of dough when the Twins just had to unload their 3-hole bat to save some money. But, hey, bring on the surprises. As long as we are at it, trade for Burnes, Gilbert, Luzardo, etc. It all seems surreal somehow and at a price of near $125 million too. We wait for miracles to descend from Falvey's office. It's all good.

Is there a bit of sarcasm in your post?

In terms of roster construction within what apparently is a tight budget window, Soler (power RH DH and as needed COF) + Topa (needed high leverage relief option) + DeSclafani (cheap 5th/6th starter to go alongside Varland and who will be needed) + Gonzalez (top 100 RH COF filling a sizable hole in our prospect pipeline) + Bowen (wild card, but with definite recognisable promise, future SP or RP) > Polanco (solid and lovable switching hitting, oft injured DH and redundant fill-in infielder). 

If Soler is the additional piece that is added as a result of the extra cash from the Polanco trade, the Twins roster would be stronger not only for 2024 but beyond as well.

[SaberNerd]

Agree with a lot of other that Soler would be good if we can get him on a 2 yr deal.  3 yr deal gives too much chance of it turning into a nightmare contract.

 

No interest in Duvall, as he really isn't much better again LHP than RHP (career wRC+ of 100 vs 97).  Would much rather go with Pham due to hitting LHP better.

[tony&rodney]

3 minutes ago, Nashvilletwin said:

Is there a bit of sarcasm in your post?

In terms of roster construction within what apparently is a tight budget window, Soler (power RH DH and as needed COF) + Topa (needed high leverage relief option) + DeSclafani (cheap 5th/6th starter to go alongside Varland and who will be needed) + Gonzalez (top 100 RH COF filling a sizable hole in our prospect pipeline) + Bowen (wild card, but with definite recognisable promise, future SP or RP) > Polanco (solid and lovable switching hitting, oft injured DH and redundant fill-in infielder). 

If Soler is the additional piece that is added as a result of the extra cash from the Polanco trade, the Twins roster would be stronger not only for 2024 but beyond as well.

The season will play out. What are the odds that the Twins sign an expensive free agent? I want it to happen as much as the next guy, but I don't see Soler signing with the Twins. Wouldn't Hoskins or even Turner have been better choices?  Passing on Hoskins to sign Soler? Why?

[Guest]

Lots of good discussion on this thread. Good to see the community really hash it out.

[tcttejtf]

The Twins do have a minor league option for DH, and his name is Yunior Severino. They might want to give him a shot, and at the league minimum salary. He tied for most home runs in the minors last year with 35, his batting average & OBP are decent (.272 & .352), although he strikes out a lot (173 strikeouts and 51 walks in 467 at bats). He is average at best at first, second, and third but is a switch hitter.

Severino will probably start the season at AAA, but if he plays like last year it won't be long before he is in the show.

[DocBauer]

I'm intrigued. A few bullet points. 

1] I love, appreciate, and want as much good defense as I can get out of all of my players. I also want and appreciate positional flexibility. That being said, I'll take the better offensive player every time if it's even close.

2] There's been some debate about how much TOTAL $ is coming back to the Twins in the Polanco deal. But suffice it to say, current payroll sits between $115-118M. If we are to believe educated estimates of $125-140M as acceptable 2024 payroll, the Twins have POTENTIALLY $22-25M to spend. POTENTIALLY.

Now, as to Soler, he's good. He's been inconsistent in his career, and I just have a hard time trusting a rebound season right before becoming a FA. But $15M per is NOT a large amount in today's game. I might be on board for 2yrs, but I don't like 3yrs. Too much risk for me, and the Twins, IMO. 

Career quad slash lines actually favor Soler over Duvall. And he's younger. I pay attention to defensive metrics, but I find them to be arbitrary and never 100%. I like that Duvall can play at least an OK CF. I kinda dismiss Duvall at 1B since he hasn't played it in years, never played it a ton, but I guess he could be expected to do so again in a limited basis. And I don't care if Duvall has almost neutral splits really. I kind of like it as he might be a part time CF option in CF. I'm looking at Duvall as being a regular, but not an every day player, and providing depth. And he still might be a better RH bat against LH pitching than Wallner or Kepler, so what's wrong if he's got neutral splits?

Do the Twins want to have someone who is a primary DH unless they are special like Cruz? No. They want that spot open for half days off and to rotate. That isn't just Buxton. That's half days off for anyone and everyone. And it gets more complicated when Lee is ready and you might DH Julien as well.

But guys get hurt, there is almost always SOMEONE on the IL, even for something small, so your 13 position player roster is always in flux to some degree.

There are checks and balances to the entire roster that give Soler and Duvall edges in this arguement. More defensive flexibility, a 1yr deal, neutral splits, lower cost to MAYBE add a 1B option/bench option to secure that spot better vs even better offense, but higher $ for more years and at least a little less defensive flexibility.

Soler might make the most sense if it's 2yr at $14-15 per. Maybe a player opt out after year 1? If it takes a 3rd year, I think I and the Twins are probably out.

[Jocko87]

4 hours ago, Hunter McCall said:

I would argue that Whit Merrifield is not a solid hitter. He's actually pretty bad...

Secondly, I think people put too much stock into the "locker room presence" thing. Plus, who's to say Jorge Soler isn't a good locker room mentor? He does have a World Series ring.

Merrifield runs and fields well, but it's hard to get fired up about this at the plate. https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/whit-merrifield-593160?stats=statcast-r-hitting-mlb

And listening to Merrifield on the players week MLB Radio he has a high opinion of his worth, he was an all star last year, after all.  He's still a good player but we already have him in Farmer, Castro, Martin et Al.  He's going to be too expensive to fit this roster.  Solid player though.

Not only does Soler have a World Series ring, he has a ton of postseason experience and has absolutely raked in those chances, 1.021 OPS in 87 PA, 1.214 OPS in World Series games.  Apparently he has a slow heartbeat.  He's bounced around but been a key contributor for three different teams in the postseason, does he bounce around because no one wants to keep him or is he a catalyst for the success?

I like a two year deal with a team option.  I'd like to think there was 16m available. 

[RpR]

Duvall is cheaper and simply a much better player.

[Shaitan]

I think Soler makes a lot of sense.

But never backload a contract. All you're doing is pushing your current problems to the future.

[Old fox]

Two bigger questions; (1) how long will Buxton be a serviceable cf ? (2) many years from 2024 to when Jenkins, or Rodriguez will be installed as cf? Therefore, will it 1, 2 or 3 years? Answer to these questions will determine which player the Twins need to sign. Solar may have problems, while, Duvall’s age is a big problem. 
Bellinger may not fit the 2024 budget.   Maybe MAT needs to be resigned.

[Parfigliano]

24 minutes ago, Old fox said:

Two bigger questions; (1) how long will Buxton be a serviceable cf ? (2) many years from 2024 to when Jenkins, or Rodriguez will be installed as cf? Therefore, will it 1, 2 or 3 years? Answer to these questions will determine which player the Twins need to sign. Solar may have problems, while, Duvall’s age is a big problem. 
Bellinger may not fit the 2024 budget.   Maybe MAT needs to be resigned.

Biggest question:  (1) is Buxton a serviceable CF now?  

[JD-TWINS]

8 hours ago, pierre75275 said:

Couple of things. Kepler isn't going to be an option to play center. Soler can't play center or first base.  The Twins currently have other options for center ( Castro and Gordon) and first base ( possibly Julien, Farmer, and Vazquez and Miranda) all of which come with question marks.

I would prefer Adam Duvall, who also mashes lefties, could be had on a one yr deal, would be cheaper, and can play all 3 outfield positions plus first base.

I have no issue with Soler, but I would fear he would take away at bats from Wallner and I think, based on what the front office has said, Duvall would be a better fit.

Duvall is a better fit…….less cost, maybe $10M & just 1 year or with some flexibility with a buyout for the 2nd year. He hit 21 HR in 92 games in ‘23. He’s a veteran with playoff experience. He can play CF/LF/DH as needed. Solid player, when healthy. He could be combined with Martin as a AAA back-up.

Buxton will principally be a DH so defensive depth is necessary.

Soler can’t really play defense……a liability.

[JD-TWINS]

18 minutes ago, Parfigliano said:

Biggest question:  (1) is Buxton a serviceable CF now?  

Predicting 30-40 games in CF, as if I know. Balance of 120 total (80) will be at DH.

Duvall can catch the ball & had 21 HR in 92 games last season. Can use Martin’s options to fill in if Duvall is hurt for couple weeks at a time.

[sftwinsfan]

I'd say 1 year deal preferably. The guy has on and off had some really rough years and I think 3 years would be a potential disaster. Especially coming into his age 32 season. He's better than most of the names discussed though. One was Kike Hernandez, seriously? The lineup could be especially week against LH pitching (OPS below .500 for Wallner, Kirilloff and Julien) and with a starting rotation that is filled with question marks, they might need to score a lot of runs. Really hard to like this offseason so far, they lost Sonny Gray and Kenta Maeda and subtracted a guy that would have been hitting near the top or middle of their lineup for a middle reliever and a bargain bin starter (I get they got prospects back, but this is what they did for the 2024 team). It would be hard to argue Gray, Maeda and Polanco are not far > than Topa and DeSclafani. Soler would help some, but still isn't making up that deficit. Maybe they've got another trick up their sleeve, but kind of sounds like that trick will be someone like Soler, Duvall or Hernandez and selling a $30M or so payroll drop. 

[RaoulDuke]

I would give Soler 30 mil for 2 years and negotiate from there.  He is the best fit left to maximize the offense. 

Martinez on a 1 year deal intrigues me, but DH only is not a great fit.

Duvall/ Taylor seems to be more the pool they are fishing in.  I would take Duvall first but welcome MAT back in the same price range. 

.

 

[SteveLV]

I would have a chat with Lopez about Soler in the clubhouse before making a move for him.  There could be a reason he has not found a home given his bat performance.

[Major League Ready]

12 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

The season will play out. What are the odds that the Twins sign an expensive free agent? I want it to happen as much as the next guy, but I don't see Soler signing with the Twins. Wouldn't Hoskins or even Turner have been better choices?  Passing on Hoskins to sign Soler? Why?

The reason could be that they have become confident in signing a TV deal or even get a deal done.  Beyond that Hoskins plays 1B and we have Kirilloff with both Miranda and Severino as possible back-ups.  We could also cover 1B with Julien if Kirilloff goes down and if Miranda or Severio has not earned a shot.  Soler can start in place of one of our LH corner OFers.  He is poor defensively but the offensive improvement is great enough to over shadow his defensive limitations.  Our only option to cover the need for a RH OFer is Martin.  Soler probably fits a little better.

[Doctor Wu]

18 hours ago, Hunter McCall said:

Only knock is come playoff time they could really use a second horse in the stable to pair with Pablo Lopez. That could be acquired at the deadline though

Hey, maybe that is the front office's strategy at this point. Who knows? Yes, we have a good rotation as things stand now, but unless one of the guys like Paddack or Ryan is pitching like a Cy Young candidate by July, we are going to need that extra arm. 

[Doctor Wu]

Guys like Soler, Duval, and even Merrifield would make nice additions to the team, but I'm also skeptical that the front office will spend the money on free agents this year. Looks like it could be another late Feb. or March signing for someone like Solano again. 

[Hunter McCall]

16 hours ago, spanman2 said:

While Soler appears to be a great fit, the Twins still have to find a way to make it work. According to our best info, the Twins have about $11 million available in the budget that they’re willing to spend, as they are expected to lower the payroll from previous years. As mentioned, Soler could cost around $15 million per season, though it might be too late in the offseason for him to get any more than that or to find that third or fourth year he's been seeking. The Twins will either have to shed more payroll or get creative with the potential contract to get a deal done.

BS on the payroll...with the success we had last year in the postseason that hadn't been since 2004 this is absurd!  Keep the payroll in the 150 mill range win the division again/advance and you make it all back no problem...there will be a tv deal of some sort in '24.  This is why some fans get so frustrated with ownership.  They seem to be animate about how 'this is a business'...well invest in your business to get results...results will yield more revenue!  No one has the expectation of 200 mill payroll but there is and should be of 150 or slightly higher if need be.  WIN TWINS!

I agree that it's disappointing that the team will shed payroll, but I'm just laying out what we know. The Twins are rumored to want to stay around that $127M area at this point. I agree they should keep it high, it just doesn't sound like they will.

[Hunter McCall]

16 hours ago, RpR said:

Twins have had recent years with poor defense; they were lousy.

If you want to return to that then , fine, time to trade for Rooker, Cave, Celestino .

They will be cheap and the Twins can pick up a Top Rank pitcher , of course he has to not mind a Chinese-Fire-Drill for an outfield.

But Rooker, Cave, and Celestino also couldn't hit... They have good defensive outfielders and Soler wouldn't even be a full-time outfielder. They're paying for a DH who can play the field when needed.

[Hunter McCall]

15 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

The season will play out. What are the odds that the Twins sign an expensive free agent? I want it to happen as much as the next guy, but I don't see Soler signing with the Twins. Wouldn't Hoskins or even Turner have been better choices?  Passing on Hoskins to sign Soler? Why?

Because Soler's better, plays a little outfield, and didn't miss the entire last season with a torn ACL

[Hunter McCall]

14 hours ago, tcttejtf said:

The Twins do have a minor league option for DH, and his name is Yunior Severino. They might want to give him a shot, and at the league minimum salary. He tied for most home runs in the minors last year with 35, his batting average & OBP are decent (.272 & .352), although he strikes out a lot (173 strikeouts and 51 walks in 467 at bats). He is average at best at first, second, and third but is a switch hitter.

Severino will probably start the season at AAA, but if he plays like last year it won't be long before he is in the show.

I'm among the biggest Severino fans out there, but in my opinion you can't go into this season him to perform as your everyday DH. That just wouldn't be very wise roster construction. He should earn his at-bats through a bench platoon role or filling in for an injury and maybe work his way into eventually being an everyday type guy.

[Hunter McCall]

14 hours ago, Shaitan said:

I think Soler makes a lot of sense.

But never backload a contract. All you're doing is pushing your current problems to the future.

The reason for that suggestion is because of the TV situation circumstances. Assuming they get everything resolved in the next year or so they should have more flexibility to expand the payroll again by the time Soler's contract is done.