Assessing the Twins' Trade of Jorge Polanco

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I don't assume Buxton gets most of his ABs at DH. If he can't play CF most of the time they need to put him on the IL. Is Kirilloff healthy and going to play a full season? Lewis going to play the whole season? Even if Buxton is a DH primarily is he going to play the full year? I don't get this idea that there's just no ABs for Polanco. He's one of their 4 or 5 best hitters, there's ABs for him. Donovan Solano stepped to the plate 450 times for the Twins last year. There's ABs for one of your best hitters. It's crazy to me that people think there's just no room for him.

If you don't think buxton, lewis, and AK are playing much, there is no reason to build for the present.....unless you think they'll find a 3B, 1B, CF and very good SP somehow with this budget.

I agree there were plenty of ABs for Polanco, though.

[chpettit19]

45 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

If you don't think buxton, lewis, and AK are playing much, there is no reason to build for the present.....unless you think they'll find a 3B, 1B, CF and very good SP somehow with this budget.

I agree there were plenty of ABs for Polanco, though.

Having Polanco mitigated a lot of the risk in those 3 guys not being able to play. I think all of their major league careers to this point suggest we should have some pretty sizeable caution when it comes to them playing. I think Lewis is a little different as the double ACL thing is more crazy than long-term concern to me, but if you're counting on those other 2 for 140+ games you're making a massive bet. It's why I don't think this team is as set offensively as others believe they are. I'd build my team assuming I'm getting 80 games each out of Buxton and Kirilloff and any more than that is a good problem to have.

[Schmoeman5]

1 hour ago, terrydactyls said:

I responded to what you said.  Your comment was not about what I said so I shouldn't be referenced.  But since you never wrong about anything, I will let you trash me once more without responding.

Awesome. I agree 1000%

 

 

[Major League Ready]

4 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

Which is totally fine. But Jorge Polanco was going to hit 2 hole on this team. I know we're all excited about Lee, but taking the 2 hole hitter out of a playoff roster because we hope Brooks Lee has "all the tools" isn't something I'm excited about, I'm sorry.

How many games would Polanco have started if Julien and Lewis are healthy?   Farmer is a considerably better option on both sides of the ball against LHP so if the days off for Julien are against LHP we gain by giving farmer those starts.  Polanco is only the two-hole hitter of Julien or Lewis are injured. 

We also have Castro who had an 801 OPS vs RHP while Polanco was slightly better at .823.  Of course, Castro adds better defense and base running.   It's a reasonable argument to say the twins are better with Farmer than Polanco.  Add a good RP and SP depth and it's reasonable to say this roster construction will yield better results, especially if they add another RH bat or SP as part of the overall plan.

[DJL44]

2 hours ago, terrydactyls said:

Will Polanco be healthy in 2024?

Will Disclafani have a decent year (or fall off a cliff).

Will Topa be a one-year wonder?     ....,.etc. etc.

The Mariners have one what-if (Polanco's health). The Twins have 4 of them. The Twins hedged their risk pretty well. It's unlikely the worst-case scenario unfolds for all four players (though it does happen). $8M cash can't win games but it can't slump either.

[chpettit19]

12 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

How many games would Polanco have started if Julien and Lewis are healthy?   Farmer is a considerably better option on both sides of the ball against LHP so if the days off for Julien are against LHP we gain by giving farmer those starts.  Polanco is only the two-hole hitter of Julien or Lewis are injured.  We also have Castro who had an 801 OPS vs RHP while Polanco was slightly better ar .823.  Of course, Castro adds better defense and base running.  It's a reasonable argument to say the twins are better with Farmer than Polanco.  Add a good RP and SP depth and it's reasonable to say this roster construction will yield better results, especially if they add another RH bat or SP as part of the overall plan.

Polanco could play 1B for Kirilloff against lefties. He can DH. Why are we assuming a fully healthy roster? Donovan Solano had 450 plate appearances for the Twins last year. Julien and Lewis were both healthy in the playoffs last year and Polanco was hitting 2 hole then. Not sure why you think that'd change now. If you believe Castro is a better player than Jorge Polanco, cool. We don't agree. You're describing a perfect scenario where all the pieces fit just as they plan and there's never a need for a full time replacement starter. How likely is that to happen? What are the odds that there's never a time that the 2024 Twins need a full time starter at an IF spot that isn't named Lewis, Correa, Julien, or Kirilloff? What if Wallner struggles in his sophomore year or Kepler gets hurt and Larnach is terrible so they want to put Kirilloff in a cOF spot? What about if Castro or Farmer go down? You're planning for opening day, I'm planning for 162 games. Solano was 3rd on the team in PAs last year. Was that the plan going into opening day? This idea that Polanco would go from hitting 2 hole in the playoffs to being some bench bat they could never find a time to use because of Farmer and Castro feels like a stretch.

Yes, I've said many, many, many times in all these threads that I expect more moves to be made and it could/would actually improve this team. But it's also quite reasonable to say the guy you had hitting 2 hole in the playoffs last year being replaced by a reliever and a washed up SP makes the team worse today than it was at start of day yesterday.

[wabene]

@chpettit19said, "Question is what they do with DeSclafani if they bring in Clevinger or Ryu. Since he's extremely cheap now you can probably flip him for a flier prospect so that'd be an interesting situation. "

Sign me up for that situation! I don't see it, but maybe because Gonzalez gives us another chip. If they pull a frontline starter out of their hat and IKF Tony Disco, me likey very much!! 

[Heiny]

8 hours ago, pierre75275 said:

 

Now if you want to say the 2024 team is worse than 2023 bc of the loss of Kenta, Gray, Pagan, Taylor, and Solano, I wouldn't argue that, but this trade moves the needle in the right direction.

You forgot Gallo.  Tee Hee Hee.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

57 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

You think Pagan is a good get for Polanco? That's not selling me on Topa.

I don't assume Buxton gets most of his ABs at DH. If he can't play CF most of the time they need to put him on the IL. Is Kirilloff healthy and going to play a full season? Lewis going to play the whole season? Even if Buxton is a DH primarily is he going to play the full year? I don't get this idea that there's just no ABs for Polanco. He's one of their 4 or 5 best hitters, there's ABs for him. Donovan Solano stepped to the plate 450 times for the Twins last year. There's ABs for one of your best hitters. It's crazy to me that people think there's just no room for him.

Yes we can throw Polanco in at 3rd and watch his atrocious defense for 20 games.  We can put Polanco or Julien at 1st.  Otherwise they are primarily DH bats.   Solano found a lot of his at bats at 1st base (85 games),  where Kiriloff and Gallo both struggled.   

If Topa was the only thing we got in return in the trade you may have an argument but then you are forgetting about 2 other decent parts and a flier as a pitching prospect.  I think Desclafani is actually a decent piece.  I think you could flip him for a minor prospect and keep all the cash.  That would be interesting LOL.  My guess he is a decent #4 and #5 for us next year.  He has a chance to be a #2, but I think Paddack has the highest ceiling of any pitcher we have.  Ryan and Ober could both continue to tweak and improve.   I do think we took a step back currently on our starters for next year,  but its not a massive step back.  

The reliever situation could be massively improved.  If Declafani and the starter hold their own,  then that means Varland is a reliever.   If Varland and Topa both show what they did in the bullpen last year, then we have the potential at a shutdown bullpen that we have not had in a very long time.  

Then the cash comes into play and we can see what we do with that.  

Lastly you have Gonzalez.  Whether he is flipped or we let him play and see how he does.  He is a very interesting young prospect.  I still think the pitching prospect is a flier.   

[chpettit19]

4 minutes ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

Yes we can throw Polanco in at 3rd and watch his atrocious defense for 20 games.  We can put Polanco or Julien at 1st.  Otherwise they are primarily DH bats.   Solano found a lot of his at bats at 1st base (85 games),  where Kiriloff and Gallo both struggled.   

If Topa was the only thing we got in return in the trade you may have an argument but then you are forgetting about 2 other decent parts and a flier as a pitching prospect.  I think Desclafani is actually a decent piece.  I think you could flip him for a minor prospect and keep all the cash.  That would be interesting LOL.  My guess he is a decent #4 and #5 for us next year.  He has a chance to be a #2, but I think Paddack has the highest ceiling of any pitcher we have.  Ryan and Ober could both continue to tweak and improve.   I do think we took a step back currently on our starters for next year,  but its not a massive step back.  

The reliever situation could be massively improved.  If Declafani and the starter hold their own,  then that means Varland is a reliever.   If Varland and Topa both show what they did in the bullpen last year, then we have the potential at a shutdown bullpen that we have not had in a very long time.  

Then the cash comes into play and we can see what we do with that.  

Lastly you have Gonzalez.  Whether he is flipped or we let him play and see how he does.  He is a very interesting young prospect.  I still think the pitching prospect is a flier.   

I've said many, many times on these threads that I don't think the Twins got too little value for Polanco. My argument has never been that they should've gotten more value for just Polanco. My argument is that they made the 2024 team worse last night, and I'm not interested in taking an ALDS team and continually watching pieces subtracted from it while the best addition is a 32 year old rookie reliever. 

I've also said my expectation is that they make more moves and start actually improving the team. When that happens I will recalculate my opinions on this deal and the offseason as a whole. But I'm not going to praise them for making the team worse yesterday because they might make it better in the future. My preference would've been that they were the ones attaching prospects and money to Polanco to get a better, controllable arm. Maybe it wasn't possible, but maybe they just weren't willing. None of us know. My complaint today is that the team is worse than it was yesterday. Until that changes it will continue to be my complaint because the team is significantly worse than it was the day their season ended. They've taken an ALDS team and done nothing but subtract from it outside of 1 reliever (and I do expect Topa to be good, so I'm glad we have him in general). Until they start actually adding talent to this team I'm not going to praise them. But I have no problem with others doing so. We just don't agree. And there's nothing wrong with that.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

3 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I've said many, many times on these threads that I don't think the Twins got too little value for Polanco. My argument has never been that they should've gotten more value for just Polanco. My argument is that they made the 2024 team worse last night, and I'm not interested in taking an ALDS team and continually watching pieces subtracted from it while the best addition is a 32 year old rookie reliever. 

I've also said my expectation is that they make more moves and start actually improving the team. When that happens I will recalculate my opinions on this deal and the offseason as a whole. But I'm not going to praise them for making the team worse yesterday because they might make it better in the future. My preference would've been that they were the ones attaching prospects and money to Polanco to get a better, controllable arm. Maybe it wasn't possible, but maybe they just weren't willing. None of us know. My complaint today is that the team is worse than it was yesterday. Until that changes it will continue to be my complaint because the team is significantly worse than it was the day their season ended. They've taken an ALDS team and done nothing but subtract from it outside of 1 reliever (and I do expect Topa to be good, so I'm glad we have him in general). Until they start actually adding talent to this team I'm not going to praise them. But I have no problem with others doing so. We just don't agree. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Yes in a vacuum on paper,  the Twins were made worse last night.  I would take Polanco over Topa and Desclafani.   However as stated what is the chance Topa and Declafani outperform Polanco in WAR next year 25%, 30%, 40%.   

This gave the twins more ammo, and more money to make moves.  As a singular trade for the MLB team yes your post has merits.  In the big picture there is a lot more going on.  With your thesis the Twins should have never traded Rogers?  I am glad we have Paddack this year.  

[Heiny]

5 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

If you believe Kyle Farmer, Willi Castro, and Brooks Lee are good enough to hit 2 hole in the playoffs more power to ya, I don't. Julien isn't replacing Polanco in any way shape or form. They were both already in the starting lineup. Topa can be lights out and still not be anywhere near valuable enough to make up for any real amount of loss of the 2 hole hitter in the lineup, that's just the nature of relief pitching. DeSclafani hasn't been good for years, has a questionable elbow, and is worse than the guy he's pushing out of the rotation (Varland).

"Used accordingly?" We'll see about that, I guess. Again, Julien isn't replacing Polanco. I don't know why people keep saying that. If opening day had been 1/28 Julien would've lead off and Polanco would've been hitting right behind him (assuming a righty starter). Julien having a higher WAR than Polanco doesn't matter when they're both in the starting lineup.

We'll just have to agree to disagree that replacing your 2 hole hitter with a "depth piece" starter you don't expect to even last the season and a reliever makes this team better.

So tell us how you really feel.  Do you think this was a good trade or not.  Now, don't hold back.  And what do you think about the 2 hole?  Just playing with you man.  I've read all of the 229 comments in the initial post of the trade and I think I figured out where you stand.

[Major League Ready]

53 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Polanco could play 1B for Kirilloff against lefties. He can DH. Why are we assuming a fully healthy roster? Donovan Solano had 450 plate appearances for the Twins last year. Julien and Lewis were both healthy in the playoffs last year and Polanco was hitting 2 hole then. Not sure why you think that'd change now. If you believe Castro is a better player than Jorge Polanco, cool. We don't agree. You're describing a perfect scenario where all the pieces fit just as they plan and there's never a need for a full time replacement starter. How likely is that to happen? What are the odds that there's never a time that the 2024 Twins need a full time starter at an IF spot that isn't named Lewis, Correa, Julien, or Kirilloff? What if Wallner struggles in his sophomore year or Kepler gets hurt and Larnach is terrible so they want to put Kirilloff in a cOF spot? What about if Castro or Farmer go down? You're planning for opening day, I'm planning for 162 games. Solano was 3rd on the team in PAs last year. Was that the plan going into opening day? This idea that Polanco would go from hitting 2 hole in the playoffs to being some bench bat they could never find a time to use because of Farmer and Castro feels like a stretch.

Yes, I've said many, many, many times in all these threads that I expect more moves to be made and it could/would actually improve this team. But it's also quite reasonable to say the guy you had hitting 2 hole in the playoffs last year being replaced by a reliever and a washed up SP makes the team worse today than it was at start of day yesterday.

You never answered my question.  How many starts does Polanco get if Lewis and Julien are healthy, given Farmer is the better option against LHP? 

Injury depth should be considered but is depth a bigger problem in SP or 2B?

[tony&rodney]

So maybe the big addition will be a return of Solano for $4 million and then the Twins have completed their offseason.

Ted, we don't know how the season will play out but suggesting DeSclafani can be better than SWR much less Festa or Varland is really a stretch. 

Trades are done for simple reasons. Make the team better in the future because the team is not really ready now, salary dumps, or acquiring players that make your team better now.. Seems pretty clear actually.

[chpettit19]

3 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

You never answered my question.  How many starts does Polanco get if Lewis and Julien are healthy, given Farmer is the better option against LHP?  

150 if he's healthy.

[Riverbrian]

5 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

150 if he's healthy.

I was going to go with 149... I think 150 is a little aggressive.  

 

[chpettit19]

18 minutes ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

Yes in a vacuum on paper,  the Twins were made worse last night.  I would take Polanco over Topa and Desclafani.   However as stated what is the chance Topa and Declafani outperform Polanco in WAR next year 25%, 30%, 40%.   

This gave the twins more ammo, and more money to make moves.  As a singular trade for the MLB team yes your post has merits.  In the big picture there is a lot more going on.  With your thesis the Twins should have never traded Rogers?  I am glad we have Paddack this year.  

And if/when they make those moves I'll recalculate. And I do hope, and believe, there's more going on. I don't think it's "a lot more," but I think there's more moves coming. I don't expect some massive move, but I do expect moves. But I'm not going to give them credit for moves that haven't been made yet. If their moves are to sign Odo to a minor league deal and bring back Donovan Solano I'm not going to praise them. If they spin Gonzalez+ into a frontline starter I'll give them their praise. More money and ammo aren't useful if you don't actually use them to improve the team. So until they do that I'm not going to praise them for doing it.

The Rogers trade didn't come after an ALDS appearance so it doesn't fit my stance. And he's a reliever, not a top of the order bat. That was a different team with different needs and thus a different strategy was needed. I'm glad we have Paddack, too. But my stance isn't just some blanket approach to every team in every season. It's for this team for this season.

[chpettit19]

2 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

I was going to go with 149... I think 150 is a little aggressive.  

 

I was banking on an extra adrenaline surge late in the year to get him that extra game, but I'm also known for being fanatical so I can get a little carried away sometimes.

[sun]

I don't believe that trading Polo results in degrading the team or the line up because the Twins could have refused to pick up Polanco's option & not received anything for him at all. I was shccked when the Twins picked up his option because of the high price tag & he missed so many games.

IMO the only reason why they resigned him was to put him on the trading block & to get something for him. Because something is better than nothing plus paying the buy out, which shows how everything the Twins received is a positive & not a negative. The Twins are blessed with a glut of infielders, both vets & young talent. It's time to take off the rose colored glasses & admit that Polanco was on his way out.

Everyone else is receiving pay raises & there's more extensions to come with less revenue. Polanco was never going to be able to play with the Twins again or hit in their #2 hole. It's a no brainer because it was all over the news that Kepler & Polanco were being put on the trading block. I'm surprised that the Twins received as much as they did. mostly because cash was involved in a Mariner's salary dump. The fact is that the trade made the Twins a better team automatically because getting something is better than nothing & for not spending the money to buy out Polanco's contract.  Mission accomplished.

Some folks want to complain about the pitchers ages but look at Verlander & his surgery.. Who wouldn't trade Polanco for Verlander? Give me a break about the age of players when one guy is 34 & the other is 32. That excuse is getting old, pun intended! 😁

[nicksaviking]

1 hour ago, tony&rodney said:

So maybe the big addition will be a return of Solano for $4 million and then the Twins have completed their offseason.

Ted, we don't know how the season will play out but suggesting DeSclafani can be better than SWR much less Festa or Varland is really a stretch. 

Trades are done for simple reasons. Make the team better in the future because the team is not really ready now, salary dumps, or acquiring players that make your team better now.. Seems pretty clear actually.

I don't want any of these kinds of players.

I really enjoyed Polanco, but offensively, the unlisted benefit from moving him is the roster flexibility. Yes, Polanco is more likely to be better than Lee or Miranda or Severino or Martin or Prato or Camargo. But he's unlikely to be better than ALL of them. The team basically just has two nebulous offensive spots on the roster, Gordon or Larnach likely gets one, leave the other one open for trial and error with the other optionable players (or better yet, move Gordon and have two such spots). The team will more likely than not find a better player or players among that group than Polanco or any other free agent they'd bring in.

[Major League Ready]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

150 if he's healthy.

I am not sure if you are serious.  They would have never traded him if this was remotely true.  Lewis plays 140+ games if he is healthy.  Julien starts against every RHP if he is healthy and Farmer is the better replacement against LHP.  The opportunity for him to start was minimal because we lose nothing if Julien and Lewis are healthy.   That's why they traded him.  Several national writers said the same thing long before they traded him so are they wrong as well as the FO?

[chpettit19]

10 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

I am not sure if you are serious.  They would have never traded him if this was remotely true.  Lewis plays 140+ games if he is healthy.  Julien starts against every RHP if he is healthy and Farmer is the better replacement against LHP.  The opportunity for him to start was minimal because we lose nothing if Julien and Lewis are healthy.   That's why they traded him.  Several national writers said the same thing long before they traded him so are they wrong as well as the FO?

I'm 100% serious. They would've DHed him. Did they trade Arraez because they didn't think he'd get playing time here last year? Jorge Polanco would've been an everyday player for this Twins team if he hadn't been traded. That doesn't make trading him the wrong thing to do, but he would've played 3B, 2B, 1B, and DH for 150 games if he was healthy. Show me where the FO has ever said they're only trading Polanco because they don't have a spot for him to play. And what has the FO done recently to suggest that their plan of attack is to prepare for the season as if all their guys are going to be healthy? I'd argue very strongly that you're the one not following the FO's MO here. Depth and planning for 162 where injuries are a certainty is far more their style than "well shoot, 3B and 2B are covered so no possible way we can play Polanco ever" is.

[rwilfong86]

Hate to see Polo go but they traded him at the height of his value and with a log jam of middle infielder prospects the move makes sense. Hope to see Brooks Lee with the MLB team sooner than later.

[Major League Ready]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

I'm 100% serious. They would've DHed him. Did they trade Arraez because they didn't think he'd get playing time here last year? Jorge Polanco would've been an everyday player for this Twins team if he hadn't been traded. That doesn't make trading him the wrong thing to do, but he would've played 3B, 2B, 1B, and DH for 150 games if he was healthy. Show me where the FO has ever said they're only trading Polanco because they don't have a spot for him to play. And what has the FO done recently to suggest that their plan of attack is to prepare for the season as if all their guys are going to be healthy? I'd argue very strongly that you're the one not following the FO's MO here. Depth and planning for 162 where injuries are a certainty is far more their style than "well shoot, 3B and 2B are covered so no possible way we can play Polanco ever" is.

They can sign JD or Belt or Soler and get a better DH.  They would also be playing the inferior player any game he starts over Lewis or Julien vs RHP or Farmer against LHP and they probably give up nothing with Castro vs RHP given his superior defense and base running.  So, electing to play him anytime Lewis / Julien are healthy is poor management.  Making room for Lee also enters into the equation but the equation favors trading him even if Lee was not in the picture.

The net of it is that Polanco's salary could pay for a DH, we get a good RP with 3 years of control and a decent SP for $4M plus a top 100 prospect and another fairly decent pitching prospect.  This type of roster management is by far the most effective way for a team in the bottom half of revenue to sustain success and history supports this assertion.

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, Major League Ready said:

They can sign JD or Belt or Soler and get a better DH.  They would also be playing the inferior player any game he starts over Lewis or Julien vs RHP or Farmer against LHP and they probably give up nothing with Castro vs RHP given his superior defense and base running.  So, electing to play him anytime Lewis / Julien are healthy is poor management.

The net of it is that Polanco's salary could pay for a DH, we get a good RP with 3 years of control and a decent SP for $4M plus a top 100 prospect and another fairly decent pitching prospect.  Absolute no brainer.

So you were real mad all postseason that they were just ruining their chances of winning by playing Polo everyday and hitting him between Julien and Lewis, right? Imagine what they could've gotten for Castro if they got such a great haul for the clearly inferior Polanco! I don't think they want a DH only. Maybe they think JD has another great year in him, but I think they prefer cycling guys through and having someone who can play multiple positions. But we'll see what they do.

I'm glad you're happy with the trade. I'm glad you think the 5 million they saved can buy a DH. I'm thrilled you're sold on a 32 year old rookie reliever and are looking forward to being able to control his age 36 season. I'm glad you think DeSclafani is "decent." Gonzalez is a top 100 prospect on 1 list, but I'm glad you're excited for him. I'm glad you're pumped for a "fairly decent" pitching prospect who's 23 in A ball. You're not alone. Plenty of other people happy with it as well. I'm not happy they made their team worse yesterday, but I'm hopeful they have more moves to make so that the lone positive addition to this team isn't Justin Topa. To each their own.

[Major League Ready]

36 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

So you were real mad all postseason that they were just ruining their chances of winning by playing Polo everyday and hitting him between Julien and Lewis, right? Imagine what they could've gotten for Castro if they got such a great haul for the clearly inferior Polanco! I don't think they want a DH only. Maybe they think JD has another great year in him, but I think they prefer cycling guys through and having someone who can play multiple positions. But we'll see what they do.

I'm glad you're happy with the trade. I'm glad you think the 5 million they saved can buy a DH. I'm thrilled you're sold on a 32 year old rookie reliever and are looking forward to being able to control his age 36 season. I'm glad you think DeSclafani is "decent." Gonzalez is a top 100 prospect on 1 list, but I'm glad you're excited for him. I'm glad you're pumped for a "fairly decent" pitching prospect who's 23 in A ball. You're not alone. Plenty of other people happy with it as well. I'm not happy they made their team worse yesterday, but I'm hopeful they have more moves to make so that the lone positive addition to this team isn't Justin Topa. To each their own.

Clearly, you have it figured out.  The FO is incompetent.  The people at ESP who gave the twins a much better grade than the mariners are also clueless.  I will take solace in knowing my opinion is shared by ESPN and the front office, all of the writers who were of the opinion that trading Polanco was the obvious move for the Twins. 

Fangraphs has now chimed in as well.  Do you want to soften your position?

[wabene]

Man this has been quite the jolt of content since this news broke last night. It's been hard to keep up, lol. Anyway I'm glad they finally did something and who knows, they might lose Tony Disco, grab a better pitcher using EROD or Gabby and even land a right handed outfielder! I would be happy then.... and surprised, lol. 

[chpettit19]

52 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

Clearly, you have it figured out.  The FO is incompetent.  The people at ESP who gave the twins a much better grade than the mariners are also clueless.  I will take solace in knowing my opinion is shared by ESPN and the front office, all of the writers who were of the opinion that trading Polanco was the obvious move for the Twins. 

Fangraphs has now chimed in as well.  Do you want to soften your position?

No, I don't, but thanks for the offer. Never called the FO incompetent. Bunch of national people liked the Gallo signing last year, did that make that a great move automatically? Twins got great grades for the Mahle trade, clearly their best move, right? Jorge Lopez was a stroke of genius according to many in the national news! Couldn't have gone better, right? 

Listen, I've said over and over and over that I thought the value back for Polanco was the right amount. I haven't once said they should've gotten more. I've said many, many times that, in a vacuum, they did well in this trade. So I agree with ESPN that the Twins should get a good grade for value. But the FO thinking this was the best move shouldn't mean anything to anyone on here. If it did what would be the point of any discussion about any move they make? "Well the FO thinks its the right thing so we can't question it" is great for community forums. Really drives content for this site, I'm sure. I'm glad you're able to agree with the FO and that makes you feel good. I'll just continue to be fanatical and wait for them to do something I feel actually helps the 2024 Twins win more games. Not sure why you care so much about my stance when you think it's uninformed and fanatical. Just be happy your stance is so clearly superior and move on.

Fangraphs take on the prospects: "The most likely outcome is that neither will ever be a major league regular." Not exactly rave reviews coming out of there. "Harold Ramirez role player" was their prediction on Gonzalez. You want to soften your position on him?

Fangraphs on the Twins needing Polanco in 2024: "But there’s a pretty clear problem with that: a lot of things have to go right for Polanco to be rendered unnecessary." Yeah, I can see why you think all the national guys are just in love with this deal. Couldn't be a stronger stance on how little Polanco is needed in MN, right? It's almost like they think the Twins got good value for Polanco, but he's most certainly likely to be needed for a contending team in MN in 2024. Which is what I've been saying for the last 22 hrs or whatever it's been, right? Man, I feel so smart now that a national guy shares my opinion.

[tony&rodney]

Fine that many TD readers are finally happy to see Polanco gone and that the Twins saved some money. Fine if you believe the Twins are better in the future because of this trade. There isn't any reason to play the shrill for the front office. 

Apparently all of the discussions and talk that focused on the Twins adding players better than what they currently have or more specifically adding a #2 starting pitcher has been long since forgotten. Last season Solano had a pretty decent season and he just may be our biggest addition of this offseason. Look over the list of the top 150 starting pitchers as ranked by Eno Sarris on The Athletic. The Twins have six (6) on the list, including Simeon Woods Richardson at #149. Guess who is not on that list?

[wabene]

26 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

There isn't any reason to play the shrill for the front office. 

When I'm baying for the front office, I prefer a lower octave.