Twins Should Hang Onto Jorge Polanco, at Least for Now

[chpettit19]

23 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

You will have to elaborate on how this is relevant because I see absolutely zero relevance to the question of if the money would be better allocated toward pitching.  We are working with a significantly different budget.  Kirilloff's availability was very much in question last year and 2B is our deepest position this year.  Also, this being a trade instead of a free agent signing, we would be getting what should be a significant return if he has the value many here suggest.  How is what they paid Gallo relevant?

Is Kirilloff's availability not in question this year? He's never played 100 games in a major league season and has now ended 3 straight seasons on the IL followed by offseason surgery. Doesn't sound like his availability question should be any different now. Same with Lewis. He's not exactly a shining example of reliability.

If we didn't have Polanco on this team I'd absolutely allocate 10.5 mil to a guy who'd hit in the top 4 or 5 in the order. Would you not? I'd still allocate about 15-17 for Hoskins right now even with Polanco on the team. There's a very real argument to be made that the lineup has every bit the need for added talent at the top that the rotation has. 

I don't think taking their 2 hole hitter out of the lineup should be taken lightly. That's a big bat to be losing with multiple other injury risks, and regression concerns, on the roster.

[Major League Ready]

30 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Is Kirilloff's availability not in question this year? He's never played 100 games in a major league season and has now ended 3 straight seasons on the IL followed by offseason surgery. Doesn't sound like his availability question should be any different now. Same with Lewis. He's not exactly a shining example of reliability.

If we didn't have Polanco on this team I'd absolutely allocate 10.5 mil to a guy who'd hit in the top 4 or 5 in the order. Would you not? I'd still allocate about 15-17 for Hoskins right now even with Polanco on the team. There's a very real argument to be made that the lineup has every bit the need for added talent at the top that the rotation has. 

I don't think taking their 2 hole hitter out of the lineup should be taken lightly. That's a big bat to be losing with multiple other injury risks, and regression concerns, on the roster.

Yes, Kirilloff still has question marks but the context of the discussion was why they spent $11M on Gallo last year.  The fact there is still a need does not diminish the need they had last year.

I would reallocate the dollars to Hoskins because we don't have the payroll capacity for both and I think Hoskins is a better fit because we don't have depth at 1B and Kirilloff can play the OF if they are both healthy.  Of course, there is also a return associated with Polanco.  None of this is original thinking on my part.  There have been multiple articles from national writers expressing the same sentiment.

[Fatbat]

2 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

You will have to elaborate on how this is relevant because I see absolutely zero relevance to the question of if the money would be better allocated toward pitching.  We are working with a significantly different budget.  Kirilloff's availability was very much in question last year and 2B is our deepest position this year.  Also, this being a trade instead of a free agent signing, we would be getting what should be a significant return if he has the value many here suggest.  How is what they paid Gallo relevant?

Its relevant because the organization signs FA’s to fill holes in the roster. Polo’s salary is basically the same as what they wasted on Gallo last year so it’s comparable value. We next each player to earn their paycheck. Polo is going to have a much better chance of actually earning his pay in ‘24 than what Gallo did in ‘23.  Can the team be better paying someone else polo’s salary? I doubt it. Thats how its a relevant comparison.

[HerbieFan]

Want a contrarion ideal?  Play Polanco at 2B until Lee is ready and trade Julien for a contollable #2 starter

[DocBauer]

I've said before and will say again, I don't think there's room for BOTH of Polanco and Farmer on the roster simply due to the unknown economics of 2024. And I'm just NOT going to get in to a debate those economics. The biggest reason being "it is what it is", which is one of the most frustrating and obnoxious expressions I've ever heard. But it doesn't make it untrue. But besides the economic impact, there simply may not be room on the roster for both.

I want to be VERY CLEAR that I am not only a fan of Polanco...been following him since he was signed as a young defense first SS with a questionable bat...but a believer in his bat at still only 30yo. And despite whatver defensive metric you want to throw at me, I've been watching the guy since he made his ML debut. He's fine defenensively. Solid, not great, makes the occasional great play. I believe the Twins offense is better with him on the roster instead of being moved. That DOESN'T mean I don't believe in Julien, who showed a great deal of defensive improvement as the season went along. And there's room for both between 2B/1B/DH and yes, even a little 3B from Polanco. IIRC correctly, the previous ankle problems that Polanco had seem fixed at this point. I don't recall his "in season" injury in 2023, but as I recall, it was minor. 

I don't WANT to trade Polanco. I want him to be a Twin! But just being honest, it's his value as a very good hitter, with power, solid contact, solid defense, and a great teammate with a contract that is under slot that makes him a potentially valuable trade option to acquire a rotation arm.

If the baseball gods/fairies said to me: "Byron, you have to include one of Polanco, Julien, or Lee in a deal to get a quality starter", I'm going to error on the side of youth and keep the kids. That doesn't mean Polanco...still reasonably young at 30yo...isn't a very good ballplayer or a loss to the Twins.

I have ZERO CLUE what the FO is going to do. But we talk a lot about Seattle and Miami as destinations for a potential trade partner. Despite the recent moves Seattle has made, they really haven't addressed their INF, unless I've missed something. And Miami, despite having Arraez, has room for Polanco as well, with a small shuffle and shared time at 2B/1B/DH with Arraez and Bell. It is my HOPE that something along the lines of Polanco, Larnach...who I honestly believe has value...and the likes of Camargo, Severino, and Rosario, along with some other young talent as enticing options can bring in a solid arm to add to the Twins rotation. In MY HOPE scenario, the Twins keep their top 3 prospects intact, POSSIBLY top 5 to keep Festa and Raya...possibly include their "Gray" draft choice in the deal...and the other party gets Polanco, the LH bat/power of Larnach...still enticing and powerful even as a platoon bat...and a couple other top 20 prospects that are close to ML ready, and cheap.

Might happen. Might not. But it's what I'm hoping for. Honestly, as much as I love and respect Arraez, I never saw a 1 for 1 this time last year for Lopez, much less a couple A prospects thrown in. IMO, the whole "trade value" website is nothing more than fantasy playing. 

Anyone who wants to denigrate Polanco's ability and value is misguided. If he was a FA this season, he would amongst the best options available and might command $15M per, especially considering the poor nature of options. He probably can't bring someone back that we need/want by himself, but he's a real quality part of the equation himself. 

Let me pause for a moment as I think it's pertinent. Arraez is a little over 3yrs younger than Polanco. He's super 2, I believe, and will start to get expensive soon, but is still a little "cheaper" than Polanco's under slot 2yrs of control. GRANTED. BUT, their past 3yr OPS and OPS+ has Arraez at .796/.122 and Polanco at .788/.118.

So what does this ultimately mean? It means the Marlins got a great player for a great starting pitcher in a relatively even return, even though they through in additional A level prospects. It means Polanco is, by himself, a little older and nearly equal in production, but not a singular player to acquire a similar rotation arm. Hence the need to a Larnach, Camargo, Severino, Rosario, etc. 

Want to debate contracts? Miami and Seattle have young pitching depth and want to keep as many as they can. But Miami tends to run a fairly inexpensive team and Seattle might want to cut some costs as well with their taking over their TV deal. Polanco is not expensive or long term for either team. But he's damn good for either team. And the Twins have enough depth of talent to offer them some solid pieces for now, the near now, and the future. And both teams have enough arm depth to add to their offense without sacrifing depth. These two teams still make the most sense to me, for BOTH parties.

I'd LOVE to have Polanco at 2B/DH/1B and sharing time with Julien and have the best INF they could put together, especially considering AK's injury was a mild shoulder issue and NOT his wrist. And can you imagine the wonderful conundrum the Twins would have if Miranda came back healthy and strong?

Any MAYBE the Twins ONLY add to to depth and the peripherals to get ready for 2024. They might just add depth and trust in what they have...which is DAMN GOOD...to win the ALC and just not want to move any top prospects for an even better 2025 and beyond. I don't see that, I'm just saying.

Polanco won't be moved for nothing. He's DAMN GOOD for the Twins, or anyone else. But I can see a couple trade routes where he makes the most sense.

[Fat Calvin]

Good article!  Made me reconsider.

[JesusisLord7]

I would trade Polanco for a high upside 17 year old and just get that payroll off the books. We do not need him. Turnaround and use the money saved toward pitching. There is no reason to bury a kid like Brooks Lee or Ed Julien for a player who is inferior to both of them. I personally would move Julien to 1st base and bring up Lee. Kiriloff can go to the outfield or use him as an asset. 

[HrbieFan]

Big Polanco fan, so I'm for keeping him as long as we can. If we are failing to compete come mid July, he will bring a handsome package 

[GNess]

The question of payroll is relevant, but it seems to me that the primary motivation for a potential Polanco trade would be the SP the Twins might get in return. (Polanco likely just one of the pieces the Twins would have to give up for a playoff caliber SP.)

The Twins would be dealing somewhat from a surplus of quality options at 2B - Julien, Farmer, Lee...

Polanco has some trade value for teams looking for a good bat at 2B.

[Major League Ready]

3 hours ago, Fatbat said:

Its relevant because the organization signs FA’s to fill holes in the roster. Polo’s salary is basically the same as what they wasted on Gallo last year so it’s comparable value. We next each player to earn their paycheck. Polo is going to have a much better chance of actually earning his pay in ‘24 than what Gallo did in ‘23.  Can the team be better paying someone else polo’s salary? I doubt it. Thats how its a relevant comparison.

I would agree Polanco has a better chance of "earning his paycheck".  I just don't see that as a relevant measure.  Using a terrible signing or trade as a comparison proves nothing.  Should we never trade a player because Mahle produced absolutely nothing?  I think you are using hyperbole to argue against and idea you don't like.  Also, the national writers don't agree.  They have pointed to Polanco as the most logical player for the Twins to trade.   Would the Ray's trade him?  Their history suggests they would and this tactic has been the reason very effective for a number of modest revenue teams.   

[JD-TWINS]

12 hours ago, mnfireman said:

Using 400 PA's to get Julien "Top 10" in the league for OBP, Solano also makes "Top 10"

From Aug 1 to the end of the season (SSS), "what have you done for me lately";

Julien - .223/.376/.369  (.745 OPS) 6 HR 19 RBI 39/63 K/BB ratio

Polanco - .265/.366/.471  (.837 OPS) 9 HR 29 RBI 28/56 K/BB ratio

Julien had the stronger overall Postseason, but that is also a SSS. 

As for defense, Polanco had the better Defensive Runs Saved, Julien showed better OAA and RAA numbers, but neither one of the graded out well on defense.

The Twins took a reactive approach towards Polanco's injuries last off-season, allowing him to rehab and rest instead of surgery, and bad ankles and knees don't bode very well for a MLB infielder because of the quick, lateral movements required. But he looked healthy and played well when the team needed him down the stretch. 

If you don't think Polanco deserves a spot on this team, I think you are very wrong. I also think Polanco brings back a good return in a trade, but I think Julien brings back a better return. If either of them is traded, I think it should be this off-season while both still have good value.

A guy can’t be unable to play for essentially half the season & then have his stats over the last 2 months drive a decision going forward without recognizing he missed half the season!

The year before he missed 10 weeks.

Lewis - CC - Julien - Kirilloff - Farmer - Miranda or RH bat alternative for 1B……..that’s the Opening Day infield……. 2 catchers………. Wallner - Castro - Kepler - Buxton - (Martin-Larnach-Gordon-FA) those are the 5 OF spots. Don’t see room for Polanco IMO.

Who goes?

[RpR]

2 hours ago, JesusisLord7 said:

I would trade Polanco for a high upside 17 year old and just get that payroll off the books. We do not need him. Turnaround and use the money saved toward pitching. There is no reason to bury a kid like Brooks Lee or Ed Julien for a player who is inferior to both of them. I personally would move Julien to 1st base and bring up Lee. Kiriloff can go to the outfield or use him as an asset. 

Julien is inferior to Polanco, you got that wrong.

Lee could be the next Rooker or Hicks , wow.

Oh heck, Kirilloff can replace Vazquez.

[1985Fan]

The TV revenue problem is not limited to just the Twins. I’ve recently read about TV revenue problems in Seattle and St. Louis. Every team except NY, Boston, and LA are cutting or holding the line on payroll. Given the reality of the current economics, it’s going to be difficult to get back value for Polanco, given his salary, age and injury concerns. I think he has more value to the Twins offensively challenged roster. He’s a veteran hitter with power from both sides. 
 

[tony&rodney]

1 hour ago, JD-TWINS said:

A guy can’t be unable to play for essentially half the season & then have his stats over the last 2 months drive a decision going forward without recognizing he missed half the season!

The year before he missed 10 weeks.

Lewis - CC - Julien - Kirilloff - Farmer - Miranda or RH bat alternative for 1B……..that’s the Opening Day infield……. 2 catchers………. Wallner - Castro - Kepler - Buxton - (Martin-Larnach-Gordon-FA) those are the 5 OF spots. Don’t see room for Polanco IMO.

Who goes?

Vazquez, Jeffers, Kirilloff, Polanco, Julien, Lewis, Correa, Farmer, Wallner, Buxton, Castro, and two of Martin, Gordon, Miranda, Larnach, Prato, Helman. I will pick Martin. You can pick the other one.

If we need to move players who have missed a ton of playing time, it is looking bad for Lewis. Nah, don't think so. Do you.

[Doctor Wu]

21 hours ago, Karbo said:

Putting salary aside for a minute, I would rather have Polo.

Polanco can certainly put up better numbers, but the health issues really are a concern. How durable will he be in the near future? Farmer is more versatile, or so it seems to me, and is also less injury prone. I am still in awe of his ability to come back so quickly after that horrific HBP last year. Frankly, I'd like to keep both players, but it appears that Polo might have more trade value, plus you have to factor in his expiring contract. But ... if we don't get something worthwhile, there is no sense in just trading him for the sake of shedding his salary. 

[Riverbrian]

18 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Out of desperation and he was really bad.

Why didn't they play Farmer instead? Was it possible that they determined the team was better with Polanco in the lineup. 

Why didn't they play Julien at 3B instead. Julien stayed at 2B and Polanco moved to 3B. Why didn't they move Julien to 3B and keep Polanco at 2B? 

Desperation? Who could have predicted an injury causing desperation? 

[JD-TWINS]

20 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

I won't quote defensive stats. The sample sizes are misleading.  

The Twins won 101 games with Polanco as the full time SS in 2019. I understand that they moved him to 2B in order to find a better defensive SS but the Twins won 101 games with Polanco at SS. 

He can play SS... there is a difference between not as good and can't. 

He didn’t play SS all of ‘23.

My point is, Jorge has been a very good player BUT the Team doesn’t know what to expect from him, regarding health, going forward.

You & 2-3 others here have refuted my comments about wanting to move him to free up salary & because of his decline over the past 2 years. Describing his career 3, 4. & 5 years ago, to me, is not a good argument. Siting a 1.15 OPS+ over past two years is a valid point but if he’s only available 55% of the time, he’s a hindrance similar to Buxton. 

Lewis - CC - Julien - Kirilloff starting infield with Farmer & Miranda (or similar) as 1B back-up……….2 catchers ……..Wallner - Castro/Buxton - Kepler as regular OF & DH.

One more roster spot………seems to need to be an outfielder to me - right?

Trade Julien - Polanco stays………otherwise I don’t see the fit. Saying he needs to stay without laying out in one’s mind who gets bumped from the 26 man is fantasy. It’s easy to say “he’s good, we need him”.

IF he’s willing & competent he would be perfect as the alternative to Kirilloff at 1B…….he’d be available to drop in at 3B & 2B & DH……….that would be great but he needs to fill that 1B roster spot.

[JD-TWINS]

6 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

Vazquez, Jeffers, Kirilloff, Polanco, Julien, Lewis, Correa, Farmer, Wallner, Buxton, Castro, and two of Martin, Gordon, Miranda, Larnach, Prato, Helman. I will pick Martin. You can pick the other one.

If we need to move players who have missed a ton of playing time, it is looking bad for Lewis. Nah, don't think so. Do you.

Where did Kepler go???….,,who is Kirilloff’s back-up at 1B? You pick.

Will try again…….

2 catchers - Vazquez & Jeffers

6 IF - Lewis - CC - Julien - Kirilloff - Farmer & back-up 1B…….Polanco could be a possibility as RH bat along Kirilloff but a real stretch

5 OF - lumping Buxton as probable DH in this group……..Wallner - Buxton/Castro - Kepler & a back-up OF…..whoever.

[tony&rodney]

3 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

Where did Kepler go???….,,who is Kirilloff’s back-up at 1B? You pick.

Will try again…….

2 catchers - Vazquez & Jeffers

6 IF - Lewis - CC - Julien - Kirilloff - Farmer & back-up 1B…….Polanco could be a possibility as RH bat along Kirilloff but a real stretch

5 OF - lumping Buxton as probable DH in this group……..Wallner - Buxton/Castro - Kepler & a back-up OF…..whoever.

Hahahaha ..... oops. I di it first as a lineup (batting order) but deleted that and was too quick with the list. 

Let me try again.

Vazquez, Jeffers

Kirilloff, Julien, Lewis, Correa, Polanco, Farmer

Wallner, Buxton, Kepler, Castro, and ....... I'm very sorry to do this but I decided you don't get a pick ..... Martin.

[JD-TWINS]

3 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

Hahahaha ..... oops. I di it first as a lineup (batting order) but deleted that and was too quick with the list. 

Let me try again.

Vazquez, Jeffers

Kirilloff, Julien, Lewis, Correa, Polanco, Farmer

Wallner, Buxton, Kepler, Castro, and ....... I'm very sorry to do this but I decided you don't get a pick ..... Martin.

Martin is a great alternative as last OF - my question about FIT is who is the alternative to Kirilloff at 1B with your group…….particularly, facing a LH pitcher?

[JD-TWINS]

21 hours ago, mnfireman said:

Using 400 PA's to get Julien "Top 10" in the league for OBP, Solano also makes "Top 10"

From Aug 1 to the end of the season (SSS), "what have you done for me lately";

Julien - .223/.376/.369  (.745 OPS) 6 HR 19 RBI 39/63 K/BB ratio

Polanco - .265/.366/.471  (.837 OPS) 9 HR 29 RBI 28/56 K/BB ratio

Julien had the stronger overall Postseason, but that is also a SSS. 

As for defense, Polanco had the better Defensive Runs Saved, Julien showed better OAA and RAA numbers, but neither one of the graded out well on defense.

The Twins took a reactive approach towards Polanco's injuries last off-season, allowing him to rehab and rest instead of surgery, and bad ankles and knees don't bode very well for a MLB infielder because of the quick, lateral movements required. But he looked healthy and played well when the team needed him down the stretch. 

If you don't think Polanco deserves a spot on this team, I think you are very wrong. I also think Polanco brings back a good return in a trade, but I think Julien brings back a better return. If either of them is traded, I think it should be this off-season while both still have good value.

List a 13 man roster of position players w/o ignoring a need at 1B along side of Kirilloff. Who is squeezed out?…..,,I still don’t think, w/o a trade of Julien, Polanco fits.

Can’t just want guys on the team - roster is maxed at 13 spots.

[JD-TWINS]

12 hours ago, DocBauer said:

I've said before and will say again, I don't think there's room for BOTH of Polanco and Farmer on the roster simply due to the unknown economics of 2024. And I'm just NOT going to get in to a debate those economics. The biggest reason being "it is what it is", which is one of the most frustrating and obnoxious expressions I've ever heard. But it doesn't make it untrue. But besides the economic impact, there simply may not be room on the roster for both.

I want to be VERY CLEAR that I am not only a fan of Polanco...been following him since he was signed as a young defense first SS with a questionable bat...but a believer in his bat at still only 30yo. And despite whatver defensive metric you want to throw at me, I've been watching the guy since he made his ML debut. He's fine defenensively. Solid, not great, makes the occasional great play. I believe the Twins offense is better with him on the roster instead of being moved. That DOESN'T mean I don't believe in Julien, who showed a great deal of defensive improvement as the season went along. And there's room for both between 2B/1B/DH and yes, even a little 3B from Polanco. IIRC correctly, the previous ankle problems that Polanco had seem fixed at this point. I don't recall his "in season" injury in 2023, but as I recall, it was minor. 

I don't WANT to trade Polanco. I want him to be a Twin! But just being honest, it's his value as a very good hitter, with power, solid contact, solid defense, and a great teammate with a contract that is under slot that makes him a potentially valuable trade option to acquire a rotation arm.

If the baseball gods/fairies said to me: "Byron, you have to include one of Polanco, Julien, or Lee in a deal to get a quality starter", I'm going to error on the side of youth and keep the kids. That doesn't mean Polanco...still reasonably young at 30yo...isn't a very good ballplayer or a loss to the Twins.

I have ZERO CLUE what the FO is going to do. But we talk a lot about Seattle and Miami as destinations for a potential trade partner. Despite the recent moves Seattle has made, they really haven't addressed their INF, unless I've missed something. And Miami, despite having Arraez, has room for Polanco as well, with a small shuffle and shared time at 2B/1B/DH with Arraez and Bell. It is my HOPE that something along the lines of Polanco, Larnach...who I honestly believe has value...and the likes of Camargo, Severino, and Rosario, along with some other young talent as enticing options can bring in a solid arm to add to the Twins rotation. In MY HOPE scenario, the Twins keep their top 3 prospects intact, POSSIBLY top 5 to keep Festa and Raya...possibly include their "Gray" draft choice in the deal...and the other party gets Polanco, the LH bat/power of Larnach...still enticing and powerful even as a platoon bat...and a couple other top 20 prospects that are close to ML ready, and cheap.

Might happen. Might not. But it's what I'm hoping for. Honestly, as much as I love and respect Arraez, I never saw a 1 for 1 this time last year for Lopez, much less a couple A prospects thrown in. IMO, the whole "trade value" website is nothing more than fantasy playing. 

Anyone who wants to denigrate Polanco's ability and value is misguided. If he was a FA this season, he would amongst the best options available and might command $15M per, especially considering the poor nature of options. He probably can't bring someone back that we need/want by himself, but he's a real quality part of the equation himself. 

Let me pause for a moment as I think it's pertinent. Arraez is a little over 3yrs younger than Polanco. He's super 2, I believe, and will start to get expensive soon, but is still a little "cheaper" than Polanco's under slot 2yrs of control. GRANTED. BUT, their past 3yr OPS and OPS+ has Arraez at .796/.122 and Polanco at .788/.118.

So what does this ultimately mean? It means the Marlins got a great player for a great starting pitcher in a relatively even return, even though they through in additional A level prospects. It means Polanco is, by himself, a little older and nearly equal in production, but not a singular player to acquire a similar rotation arm. Hence the need to a Larnach, Camargo, Severino, Rosario, etc. 

Want to debate contracts? Miami and Seattle have young pitching depth and want to keep as many as they can. But Miami tends to run a fairly inexpensive team and Seattle might want to cut some costs as well with their taking over their TV deal. Polanco is not expensive or long term for either team. But he's damn good for either team. And the Twins have enough depth of talent to offer them some solid pieces for now, the near now, and the future. And both teams have enough arm depth to add to their offense without sacrifing depth. These two teams still make the most sense to me, for BOTH parties.

I'd LOVE to have Polanco at 2B/DH/1B and sharing time with Julien and have the best INF they could put together, especially considering AK's injury was a mild shoulder issue and NOT his wrist. And can you imagine the wonderful conundrum the Twins would have if Miranda came back healthy and strong?

Any MAYBE the Twins ONLY add to to depth and the peripherals to get ready for 2024. They might just add depth and trust in what they have...which is DAMN GOOD...to win the ALC and just not want to move any top prospects for an even better 2025 and beyond. I don't see that, I'm just saying.

Polanco won't be moved for nothing. He's DAMN GOOD for the Twins, or anyone else. But I can see a couple trade routes where he makes the most sense.

Siting Arraez v. Polanco stats are interesting…….the difference & my recurring point in this debate about Polanco’s value is that Arraez played 90% of games & Polanco played 55% of games over the past 2 seasons.

Stats don’t translate from the IL. That’s my arguement - period. Can’t afford another Buxtonlike guy on the roster.

[DJL44]

9 hours ago, 1985Fan said:

The TV revenue problem is not limited to just the Twins. I’ve recently read about TV revenue problems in Seattle and St. Louis. Every team except NY, Boston, and LA are cutting or holding the line on payroll. Given the reality of the current economics, it’s going to be difficult to get back value for Polanco, given his salary, age and injury concerns. I think he has more value to the Twins offensively challenged roster. He’s a veteran hitter with power from both sides. 
 

St. Louis just increased their payroll to $175M

[DJL44]

2 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Why didn't they play Farmer instead? Was it possible that they determined the team was better with Polanco in the lineup. 

Why didn't they play Julien at 3B instead. Julien stayed at 2B and Polanco moved to 3B. Why didn't they move Julien to 3B and keep Polanco at 2B? 

Desperation? Who could have predicted an injury causing desperation? 

They wanted as much offense in the lineup as possible. They didn't play Julien at 3B because he would also have been bad there and Polanco has at least had reps on the left side of the infield. The gameplan was to bat Polanco and Julien at the top of the order, get the lead and then put in Farmer as a defensive replacement (moving Polanco back to 2B). Kudos to Polanco for filling in on short notice in the playoffs but using him at 3B is a terrible plan for 2024.

Personally, I would have put Willi Castro at 3B in that series and played Polanco or Julien at 1B to replace the injured and ineffective Kirilloff.

[Riverbrian]

31 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

He didn’t play SS all of ‘23.

My point is, Jorge has been a very good player BUT the Team doesn’t know what to expect from him, regarding health, going forward.

You & 2-3 others here have refuted my comments about wanting to move him to free up salary & because of his decline over the past 2 years. Describing his career 3, 4. & 5 years ago, to me, is not a good argument. Siting a 1.15 OPS+ over past two years is a valid point but if he’s only available 55% of the time, he’s a hindrance similar to Buxton. 

Lewis - CC - Julien - Kirilloff starting infield with Farmer & Miranda (or similar) as 1B back-up……….2 catchers ……..Wallner - Castro/Buxton - Kepler as regular OF & DH.

One more roster spot………seems to need to be an outfielder to me - right?

Trade Julien - Polanco stays………otherwise I don’t see the fit. Saying he needs to stay without laying out in one’s mind who gets bumped from the 26 man is fantasy. It’s easy to say “he’s good, we need him”.

IF he’s willing & competent he would be perfect as the alternative to Kirilloff at 1B…….he’d be available to drop in at 3B & 2B & DH……….that would be great but he needs to fill that 1B roster spot.

When sub-points are made to support a position those sub-points can send the discussion off the rails so let's clean this up a bit.  

My overall point in regards to this discussion is that we can't afford to let him go (Talent)... but I also understand that we may not be able to afford to keep him (Budget).  

On the Sub-Points being raised to support positions:

1. The Log Jam: If you are looking at Julien and saying no room for Polanco and therefore think it makes sense to move him (or Julien) because of some sort of perceived log jam in the infield. History should have shown you differently by now and this can't really be argued. History has taught us that injuries are going to occur. We don't know where and we don't know who so you need talent behind talent or in front of talent. When you say that Polanco has only been available 55% of the time... it may be accurate but you are making my point by saying it. The entire roster is at risk for injury so load up the 26 man and prepare for it. Lewis and Kirilloff are in the same boat. Julien is an injury risk. They are all injury risks. Staff your team with talent and Polanco can hit the ball. We have depth... we need hitters who can hit the ball. This team is better with Polanco and Julien in the same lineup. Prepare for injuries and pray for health. If Rocco has too many good players because we were blessed with unprecedented health... that would be wonderful but it won't happen and it especially won't happen if you just chuck one of your best, most consistent hitters.     

2. Defense: I acknowledge that some players are better than others defensively, I acknowledge that it is better to have a strong armed dude playing 3B or SS further from 1B and I acknowledge that it better to have quicker defenders up the middle because they have more ground to cover. However... what I STRONGLY disagree with is that the wheels completely fall off if a lesser defensive player plays. If you can play on the dirt... you can play on the dirt. When I bring up Polanco at SS in 2019... it isn't to suggest that HE SHOULD play SS in 2024. I bring it up to point out that he wasn't the best defensive SS in 2019 and we still won games. The Wheels didn't come off. I bring it up to point out that the overall team was better getting Polanco's bat into the lineup with Sano, Schoop and Cron. Team context suggested he was the best SS option over Schoop, Gonzalez and Adrianaza. The overall team was better. Hitting was a major consideration. I bring it up to minimize the extreme thinking that Polanco can only play one position, that he can't play 3B. Arm Strength? Yeah... you'd love to have a cannon over at 3B especially when you have to range to your right but you'd also love to have a cannon at 2B when you have to range to your right, especially when you have to range longer distance and the ball spends more time on the ground meaning that the runner is further down the line when the ball is fielded. The ball also gets to the 3B quicker and when it does... it doesn't require a stronger arm because the ball is in your glove before the batter gets out of the box. A manager looks at his available players and places them where it makes sense. 

3. Offensive Decline: Polanco is one of our best hitters and consistently one of our best hitters. It is more likely that the younger hitters decline and the fact that players do indeed decline year over year is just another reason why we need Polanco.    

Now... where the discussion becomes subjective is: Where do we allocate our strained resources. Many here feel that we need a starting pitcher over an offensive player.

I understand why others feel a starting pitcher is our #1 need but I feel that we need a talented offensive player over a talented starting pitcher and I feel that way even with Polanco on the roster. If we trade Polanco for pitching... then I'm going to feel that we need to at least two talented offensive players because Polanco will need to be replaced. 

Why do I feel that way... because I feel that our pitching is guaranteed to decline next year. Even if we add Gerrit Cole to the rotation I still think our pitching is still going to decline because last year the pitching was fairly healthy and very good to the point that repeating it will be near impossible. I think we need to up the offense to compensate for the decline on the mound that is sure to come no matter who we add. 

[Riverbrian]

31 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

They wanted as much offense in the lineup as possible. They didn't play Julien at 3B because he would also have been bad there and Polanco has at least had reps on the left side of the infield. The gameplan was to bat Polanco and Julien at the top of the order, get the lead and then put in Farmer as a defensive replacement (moving Polanco back to 2B). Kudos to Polanco for filling in on short notice in the playoffs but using him at 3B is a terrible plan for 2024.

Personally, I would have put Willi Castro at 3B in that series and played Polanco or Julien at 1B to replace the injured and ineffective Kirilloff.

They still need as much offense as possible in the lineup. 

I expect Royce Lewis to man the majority of 3B.

Polanco playing 3B when he can't is not a terrible plan. 

[chpettit19]

15 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

Yes, Kirilloff still has question marks but the context of the discussion was why they spent $11M on Gallo last year.  The fact there is still a need does not diminish the need they had last year.

I would reallocate the dollars to Hoskins because we don't have the payroll capacity for both and I think Hoskins is a better fit because we don't have depth at 1B and Kirilloff can play the OF if they are both healthy.  Of course, there is also a return associated with Polanco.  None of this is original thinking on my part.  There have been multiple articles from national writers expressing the same sentiment.

The comment I responded to included Gallo so I probably should've quoted your initial comment, too. I was responding to your original question of "would you pay someone like Polanco 10M this year if he wasn't already on the roster" and tied it in with your comment on Kirilloff's availability. The Gallo stuff wasn't really on my radar, I should've been more clear.

[tony&rodney]

39 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

Siting Arraez v. Polanco stats are interesting…….the difference & my recurring point in this debate about Polanco’s value is that Arraez played 90% of games & Polanco played 55% of games over the past 2 seasons.

Stats don’t translate from the IL. That’s my arguement - period. Can’t afford another Buxtonlike guy on the roster.

462PA vs 840PA. These are the number of regular season plate appearances by two Twins who were in the lineup during the playoffs during the last two years. Injuries happen and eventually baseball careers end. There doesn't need to be a rush to judgment on Polanco's health. The other guy, Royce Lewis is getting MVP chants and the Twins and fans are super excited to see what he can do this season. He last had a healthy run in 2019. Kirilloff is as good a bet as Lewis on health and Polanco is a better bet than both of those guys based on their careers. Focus on which players are the most likely to provide production this coming year. Polanco is at full health right now and should be a good bet. Let's hope all of the Twins have a healthy year.

The Twins have at bats to go around and this is easy to see when you total the plate appearances of Gallo and Solano. Unless Polanco is a part of a larger trade that brings in a pitcher like Luzardo, Gilbert, or Kirby the Twins need his experience and skills. 

[chpettit19]

10 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

A guy can’t be unable to play for essentially half the season & then have his stats over the last 2 months drive a decision going forward without recognizing he missed half the season!

The year before he missed 10 weeks.

Lewis - CC - Julien - Kirilloff - Farmer - Miranda or RH bat alternative for 1B……..that’s the Opening Day infield……. 2 catchers………. Wallner - Castro - Kepler - Buxton - (Martin-Larnach-Gordon-FA) those are the 5 OF spots. Don’t see room for Polanco IMO.

Who goes?

Lewis, Kirilloff, Miranda, Buxton, Martin, and Gordon if "missed half the season" is a large part of the criteria...

Do you honestly believe Polanco is the least valuable player out of those 15 players you named? Martin can hang in AAA until he actual has a healthy and dominant season. Gordon is nowhere near the player Polanco is. Polanco is a better player than Farmer. Polanco is better than Castro. He's better than Larnach. And Miranda. Even assuming he hits the IL multiple times.

And as for your "who pairs with Kirilloff at 1B question," Polanco does. And Farmer does. Julien can move there if Kirilloff gets hurt. Kepler's played there before if you really want to get into it. If Kirilloff is hurt they call someone up. If Kirilloff isn't hurt why can't they just let the guy they think is their best pure hitter face lefties, thus not needing a pairing with him at all? "We need a short side of a platoon bat for 1B" is not a convincing argument at all when it comes to dumping your 2 hole hitter, sorry.

[tony&rodney]

1 hour ago, JD-TWINS said:

Martin is a great alternative as last OF - my question about FIT is who is the alternative to Kirilloff at 1B with your group…….particularly, facing a LH pitcher?

Farmer and  Polanco can both play first base.