The coming infield jam-up...

[stringer bell]

1 hour ago, Schmoeman5 said:

Yeah. Stevenson is the savior the Twins have and just don't realize  because they're so incompetent. He's a guaranteed HOF player languishing in AAA.

Remember Tim Beckham last year? He put up an over 1.000 OPS at St. Paul and couldn't hit his weight with the Twins. Pretty hard to trust AAA numbers as predictors for major league success.

[Mike Sixel]

27 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

Remember Tim Beckham last year? He put up an over 1.000 OPS at St. Paul and couldn't hit his weight with the Twins. Pretty hard to trust AAA numbers as predictors for major league success.

I think you missed your sarcasm check....

[RpR]

2 hours ago, Schmoeman5 said:

Yeah. Stevenson is the savior the Twins have and just don't realize  because they're so incompetent. He's a guaranteed HOF player languishing in AAA.

If you say so.

[TwinkieFan4life]

I would rotate Julien and Polanco between DH, 2nd base and 1st Base.  I would split Kirillof's time between outfield and first.  Royce and Correa are locked in at 3rd and short.

Next year I have Miranda at AAA proving health and playing first base and corner outfield.  He is no good at third anyway.

If a good trade offer is made for Polo take it.  If not, don't give him away.  Kirillof, Royce, and Correa are not exactly iron men.

Lee ends the year at AAA and starts next year there.  If he forces his way up and everyone is healthy, what a great problem to have!  

DH needs to be used to get guys who hit well in the lineup.  Whoever that may be.

[JD-TWINS]

23 hours ago, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

None of this takes into account that we have Austin Martin and Gordon coming in at some point.  Now, maybe they move Martin to the OF and prepare him for CF next year.  I see Gordon squeezed out of the infield at this point.

Gordon was our LH hitting CF going into this year…….played infield because Polanco was slow in mending.

IMO, Castro should get a shot at a full-time spot in CF in ‘24. He needs some time/reps but his speed & arm are intriguing. He makes things happen on the bases. Switch hitter - with limitations.

Certainly should be our 4th OF going into ‘24 with the ability to play 3 infield spots as well.

Gordon may get a chance in Spring Training after some fall ball or winter ball to help sharpen timing after missing so much time. He’s an OF 90% of the time here on out.

Gordon may be interesting for some other team as part of a trade? Decent upside.

[KirbyDome89]

2 hours ago, Nine of twelve said:

This is not a demand by Lewis or his agent. It's just an expression of preference. The team still decides who plays where no matter what they say, and in Lewis' case I don't foresee him squawking about where he plays. But I agree with others that the infield is where Lewis is best suited, for the benefit of both him and the team.

Actually the team would be better off with Lewis in CF, unless you think the issues with Buxton don't exist moving forward. No more MAT types locked into the lineup every day, 3B stays open for Lee (or Miranda if he gets it together) and you've got one of your best athletes at a premium defensive position. 

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

The long term plan I think will be the following - Lee at 3rd, Correa SS, Lewis 2nd, Kiriloff 1st -  Julien DH and backup at 2nd and 1st,  With Lewis proclivity for injuries is very nice insurance.  Should be an excellent defensive infield and plenty of pop.  Outfield is where we currently appear to be lacking.  

Steer is having a decent year but not all star or ect currently with an 817 OPS,  I still think Lee becomes the better 3rd baseman.  You still have Miranda as cheap insurance to see if he can figure it back out again.  Lee is outperforming Steer at all levels and a year younger as well.  He also has a chance to enter the MLB in in age 23 season.  Arraez is also beginning is typical late summer fall swoon.   Although the swoon started a bit later and starting from a higher point.  

I really like the future infield the outfield is a major question mark.  Can 1 one of Wallner, Larnach make it.  Otherwise you are hoping Martin can re discover his contact.  He is walking again, 3 walks last night.  I am not sure Buxton will end up in the long term plans unless can play outfield again.  I am actually comfortable with our C position.  We are solid for a couple years and we have Williams knocking on the door as a back up C/DH player.  

[Mike Sixel]

30 minutes ago, TwinkieFan4life said:

I would rotate Julien and Polanco between DH, 2nd base and 1st Base.  I would split Kirillof's time between outfield and first.  Royce and Correa are locked in at 3rd and short.

Next year I have Miranda at AAA proving health and playing first base and corner outfield.  He is no good at third anyway.

If a good trade offer is made for Polo take it.  If not, don't give him away.  Kirillof, Royce, and Correa are not exactly iron men.

Lee ends the year at AAA and starts next year there.  If he forces his way up and everyone is healthy, what a great problem to have!  

DH needs to be used to get guys who hit well in the lineup.  Whoever that may be.

How does he "force his way up" if Lewis, CC, Polanco, and Julien are on the roster? 

Also, they Twins haven't IL'd Buxton yet....why do so many people in this thread think they suddenly will?

[ashbury]

16 hours ago, MMMordabito said:

Polanco doesn't have a thousand-yard stare, though. Nor a look of shock/terror.  Just focused.  He looks as though he will catch even the slightest clue if it's to his favor.

[Major League Ready]

23 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

How does he "force his way up" if Lewis, CC, Polanco, and Julien are on the roster? 

Also, they Twins haven't IL'd Buxton yet....why do so many people in this thread think they suddenly will?

I think people are just tired of Buxton being an automatic out and want relief.  Plus, it would make us a lot better with Julien in the DH spot assuming Polanco is normal Polanco.  Then, get Royce back and all the sudden this should be a decent offense.

[Mike Sixel]

3 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

I think people are just tired of Buxton being an automatic out and want relief.  Plus, it would make us a lot better with Julien in the DH spot assuming Polanco is normal Polanco.  Then, get Royce back and all the sudden this should be a decent offense.

Of course it would....but the FO does not seem to agree. I'm no believer that Royce will ever be healthy....Hope to be wrong.

[TwinkieFan4life]

52 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

How does he "force his way up" if Lewis, CC, Polanco, and Julien are on the roster? 

Also, they Twins haven't IL'd Buxton yet....why do so many people in this thread think they suddenly will?

The same way Joe Mauer did.  Play really well.  Its more likely that one (or numerous) players are hurt anyway.

[Schmoeman5]

1 hour ago, ashbury said:

Polanco doesn't have a thousand-yard stare, though. Nor a look of shock/terror.  Just focused.  He looks as though he will catch even the slightest clue if it's to his favor.

That wasnt Polanco was it? I thought that was the Sith guy Darth something or other

[ashbury]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

How does he "force his way up" if Lewis, CC, Polanco, and Julien are on the roster? 

Also, they Twins haven't IL'd Buxton yet....why do so many people in this thread think they suddenly will?

 

50 minutes ago, TwinkieFan4life said:

The same way Joe Mauer did.  Play really well.  Its more likely that one (or numerous) players are hurt anyway.

The Twins traded away incumbent starter Pierzynski before Mauer played his first major league game on Opening Day 2004.  Mauer played in A+ and AA in 2003.  The standard being proposed now is that minor league numbers are all well and good but you have to prove it first in AAA and then in the Show. 

He was handed the job.*

Because the scouts knew what they were seeing was real.

Mauer is a terrible example to give.

 

* And promptly got injured, but that's beside the point here.  For once.

[Mike Sixel]

7 minutes ago, ashbury said:

 

The Twins traded away incumbent starter Pierzynski before Mauer played his first major league game on Opening Day 2004.  Mauer played in A+ and AA in 2003.  The standard being proposed now is that minor league numbers are all well and good but you have to prove it first in AAA and then in the Show. 

He was handed the job.*

Because the scouts knew what they were seeing was real.

Mauer is a terrible example to give.

 

* And promptly got injured, but that's beside the point here.  For once.

It's nearly impossible to give an example of a AAA player not being given a chance by injury or trade or start of year. 

[Schmoeman5]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

How does he "force his way up" if Lewis, CC, Polanco, and Julien are on the roster? 

Also, they Twins haven't IL'd Buxton yet....why do so many people in this thread think they suddenly will?

I'm not sure. But it's pretty clear that Julien will stay upon Polancos return. Wallner will go back to st. Paul and then when Lewis comes back. I think that's where the thought is Buxton to the IL. I think that's an option but I'm more inclined to believe the decision will be something involving Gallo. 

[TwinkieFan4life]

37 minutes ago, ashbury said:

 

The Twins traded away incumbent starter Pierzynski before Mauer played his first major league game on Opening Day 2004.  Mauer played in A+ and AA in 2003.  The standard being proposed now is that minor league numbers are all well and good but you have to prove it first in AAA and then in the Show. 

He was handed the job.*

Because the scouts knew what they were seeing was real.

Mauer is a terrible example to give.

 

* And promptly got injured, but that's beside the point here.  For once.

True, I guess Morneau would be a better example.  

[RpR]

4 hours ago, stringer bell said:

Remember Tim Beckham last year? He put up an over 1.000 OPS at St. Paul and couldn't hit his weight with the Twins. Pretty hard to trust AAA numbers as predictors for major league success.

I agree, I said bring him up for a try, not get rid of any player because of him; so many here want to sell, DFA veterans so their favorite rookie will stop being  -- "blocked" --  from their absolute rightful spot on the Twins,, LOL, fantasy dreaming.

[Riverbrian]

4 hours ago, stringer bell said:

Remember Tim Beckham last year? He put up an over 1.000 OPS at St. Paul and couldn't hit his weight with the Twins. Pretty hard to trust AAA numbers as predictors for major league success.

Absolutely... 1.000 OPS in St. Paul is not a predictor for major league success. 

Nor is 25 AB's over the course of 23 Days in the Majors an indication of major league failure. 

1.000 OPS in St. Paul is an indication of success at St. Paul and therefore hopefully a candidate for opportunity in the majors. 

In the case of Tim Beckham... 25 AB's over 23 days is a questionable example. 

In the case of Andrew Stevenson... I have no idea if Andrew or Chris Williams can jump up a level and perform. I'm just reasonable certain that there is nothing that they can do in St. Paul to get a major league opportunity. 

And I am absolutely certain that we have players on the 26 man roster who have gotten chance after chance after chance after chance after chance and failed. 

Personally... I'm not afraid of a Tim Beckham or Andrew Stevenson coming up and failing... they can simply be exposed to others team who want them when they are removed from the roster. 

What I'm afraid of is the guy who is failing and failing and not sent down. 

1.000 OPS in St. Paul doesn't guarantee anything at the major league level.

Outright dismissing 1.000 OPS at St. Paul because it doesn't guarantee anything absolutely guarantees that it will mean absolutely nothing at the major league level though. 

[ashbury]

4 hours ago, stringer bell said:

Remember Tim Beckham last year? He put up an over 1.000 OPS at St. Paul and couldn't hit his weight with the Twins. Pretty hard to trust AAA numbers as predictors for major league success.

Tim was actually one of the easier "regression candidates" to spot in advance, with small sample size of 143 PA and a monstrous .522 BABIP.  And then his .125 BABIP in the majors was as ludicrously low as his AAA figure had been high. 

It's hard to imagine a 1.062 OPS meaning a guy was cooked at the plate, but it was right there.

You can trust AAA numbers if you look at enough of them. 

[stringer bell]

5 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Absolutely... 1.000 OPS in St. Paul is not a predictor for major league success. 

Nor is 25 AB's over the course of 23 Days in the Majors an indication of major league failure. 

1.000 OPS in St. Paul is an indication of success at St. Paul and therefore hopefully a candidate for opportunity in the majors. 

In the case of Tim Beckham... 25 AB's over 23 days is a questionable example. 

In the case of Andrew Stevenson... I have no idea if Andrew or Chris Williams can jump up a level and perform. I'm just reasonable certain that there is nothing that they can do in St. Paul to get a major league opportunity. 

And I am absolutely certain that we have players on the 26 man roster who have gotten chance after chance after chance after chance after chance and failed. 

Personally... I'm not afraid of a Tim Beckham or Andrew Stevenson coming up and failing... they can simply be exposed to others team who want them when they are removed from the roster. 

What I'm afraid of is the guy who is failing and failing and not sent down. 

1.000 OPS in St. Paul doesn't guarantee anything at the major league level.

Outright dismissing 1.000 OPS at St. Paul because it doesn't guarantee anything absolutely guarantees that it will mean absolutely nothing at the major league level though. 

Exactly right Brian. I would add that the AAA staff’s job might include being able to see if Triple A success is likely to be sustained in the majors. 

[Riverbrian]

7 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

Exactly right Brian. I would add that the AAA staff’s job might include being able to see if Triple A success is likely to be sustained in the majors. 

Absolutely and as much as I tend to criticize... I will stand here and recognize in full assumption that they are better at such things than I am. It is after all what they do for a living. 

However... They are frequently wrong. These are the same guys who watched Nick Anderson day after day and missed. 

I want the evaluators to be aware of this and act accordingly by letting the players decide through opportunity and what they do with that opportunity.

It all starts by not giving the opportunity over and over again to the players who fail over and over again.  

[lecroy24fan]

Polanco is going to get reps at 3B in St. Paul

[Dman]

It feels like we talked about this issue last year and the Twins ended up trading Arraez with Polanco already there and Jullian hoping to step in which he has in a big way.  Kirilloff at 1st was another reason they felt they could move Arraez for the right fit and Pablo Lopez turned out to be it.

I don't think there has to be much of a log jam just yet but there is one coming. The Twins love to draft and develop 2nd basemen and they have three more in AA in Lee, Severino and Schobel.  Schobel statistically looks pretty much like a Lee clone with walks and K rate and while a level lower Schobel led his league in HR's until his promotion so he has power.  Ben Ross also could be joining them though his K rate is a bit high and average a bit low but he is a league leader in HR's as well.  If Miller ever hits he is yet another infielder they would need to find a spot for and that doesn't even include Helman and Prato or Gordon or Miranda for that matter. They have time as none of those guys need to be promoted right now but it won't be long.

It sure feel like Polanco and Gordon might be the odd men out and Lee looks like he will be ready whenever the Twins decide to call him up.  They need right handed bats in the outfield and while I know they didn't want Royce out there this year I have to believe they are going to need him play out there to find room with all the infielders coming up.

Will have to wait and see what FO decides to do but I don't think they really have to worry about it a ton until next year.

[lecroy24fan]

I don't think Gordon will have a spot once everyone is healthy.

[stringer bell]

Pleasantly surprised that the Twins are considering Polanco at third. Not that I think he would be a GG contender there, but it fills a need for the short term when there are only 63 games left, probably about 55 when Jorge is activated. 

[freshinthehouse]

If I had my druthers it would be:

1b - Kiriloff

2b - Polanco

ss- Correa

3b - Lewis

With Julien getting plenty of ABs at 2nd, 1st, and DH.  Farmer fills in on SS.

I'd like to see the Twins move Polanco this off-season if they can get decent value for him.

[Squirrel]

On 7/20/2023 at 11:54 AM, FlyingFinn said:

Sometimes we just think we have a logjam and then suddenly we end up with no logs. We traded Steer as Miranda was having a great rookie year plus Lewis was coming back. Suddenly Miranda can't hit for power (shoulder?) and Lewis is on the IL and Steer is tearing up the league. 

For this year, I want Julien in the lineup 6 days out of 7, even against LH's (don't teach our young guys that they can only hit RH's). 2B or DH are the only two spots right now that Julien can play. He would need some work at 1B to play there and will not be at 3B or LF. 

For 2024, I just don't see Polanco on the Twins. Even if we move Lewis to CF, we still have Lee (or a Miranda comeback) at 3B, Correa at SS, Julien/Lee/Martin at 2B, with Castro and Farmer backing up everything (or playing until Lee is ready). All of this is based upon a certain someone still playing every day at DH.

Martin could end up in the OF, too, so next year could be Marin, Lewis, Larnach, and Buxton and Wallner in the mix out there, too

[Squirrel]

On 7/20/2023 at 12:07 PM, Possumlad said:

Great thoughts. 

If I remember correctly, Lewis & his agent have made it very clear that they don't want him in the OF. Assuming I'm remembering that correctly, I'd respect that preference. I don't see a reason to move him off 3B. 

I dug up that comment recently, and it’s posted somewhere. It was somewhat ambivalent and I read that as for this year, letting him work back strong in familiar territory. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Twins ask him to work out in the OF over the off-season to really learn the position, particularly CF

[strumdatjag]

Can Polanco play 1B?

if yes then:

C. Jeffers and Valdez

1B.  Polanco

2B. Julien 

SS.  Correa

3B.  Lewis 

RF.  Kepler 

CF.  (Buxton, Taylor, Castro ????)

LF   Kiriloff 

DH and bench:  Buxton, Solano, Gallo (and those not playing CF)  

12 pitchers  

If Polanco cannot play first base, then put him on the bench and use him at 2B, 3B and SS.