Roster Crunch? Who stays, who goes?

[Mike Sixel]

14 minutes ago, Azalea Park Bob said:

Are we a better team with Farmer (when healthy) and Julien on the active roster instead of Castro and Gordon? If so, is there a realistic way to make this happen? Any issues with our defense under this scenario? Also, what happens when Kirilloff is ready to come up? 

 

Julien isn't sitting around waiting to play like those two are. They just aren't going to call him up to not play. Those two are bench players. 

[Nine of twelve]

1 hour ago, Riverbrian said:

April 27, 2023 - OPS Numbers (Close to everyday players):

Correa - .608

Miranda - .628

Kepler - .647

Taylor - .705

Larnach - .746

For a reference point, the league-wide OPS is somewhere around .720.

[stringer bell]

2 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

  

I do not understand any talk of stashing Kirilloff in the minors.

You bring him up to see if he can join Gallo and Polanco as players who actually deserve to play every day by actually producing at a level that justifies it.  

 

Kirilloff has played on back-to-back days twice during his rehab. He took last night off, but is playing today and is 1-3 with a HBP. I think there may be questions whether he can handle playing every day or nearly every day, but his rehab ends on Sunday. If the wrist is well enough for him to be playing 5 days a week, the performance of the other corner outfielders/first basemen other than Gallo shouldn't stand in his way. 

[Riverbrian]

8 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

Kirilloff has played on back-to-back days twice during his rehab. He took last night off, but is playing today and is 1-3 with a HBP. I think there may be questions whether he can handle playing every day or nearly every day, but his rehab ends on Sunday. If the wrist is well enough for him to be playing 5 days a week, the performance of the other corner outfielders/first basemen other than Gallo shouldn't stand in his way. 

I agree with you. If he can play in St. Paul. He can also play in Minneapolis or Red Wing. If he's healthy... he's healthy. He isn't having any timing issues in AAA apparently. 

He doesn't need to be able to prove that he can play every day to get called up because he won't need to play every day when you have Taylor, Larnach, Gallo, Kepler, Solano and Gordon along side him on the roster and the flexibility that they demonstrate.  

What he needs to do... is simply show that he can help our offense be better than it has been. We need it today and we will need someone better for all the tomorrow's to come. If he shows he can help us be better, give him as much playing time that he can handle. We sat Polanco yesterday, Correa will get his days off, Buxton gets his days off. Kirilloff can take some days off. He won't rust.       

He shouldn't be stashed for depth because the offense shouldn't be in stash mode based on performance so far. The starting pitching can be in stash mode... they are crushing it.

The offense should be in open competition, let's find someone who will help mode.    

[Craig Arko]

Were I a betting man I’d lay down on Kiriloff returning around 9th May when the next homestand begins against the Padres.

[tony&rodney]

Kirilloff had a nice line drive base hit today and a hard out to left field but looked unwilling to take a walk in the 9th inning and waved at a pitch way outside. He wants to hit but needs to make the pitchers stay in the strike zone. AK has a sweet swing. I hope the Twins identify when he is ready. I think he will hit.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

Julien isn't sitting around waiting to play like those two are. They just aren't going to call him up to not play. Those two are bench players. 

With Polanco active and playing well, this team improves quite a bit with Farmer on the bench and one of Castro/Gordon. Right now it looks like Castro would be the preferred option.

agreed, Julien isn’t getting recalled to ride the pine

[Craig Arko]

Tangential to the current discussions but Cole Sands’ 15 days down is up on Saturday 29th April, so he could be recalled any time beginning then. This will bear more on the Headrick replacement than anything else.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

2 hours ago, Nine of twelve said:

For a reference point, the league-wide OPS is somewhere around .720.

Larnach’s wRC+ is 115. He started hot, cooled off in the middle, and heated up again this past week. He went real cold for a while

[Squirrel]

And Winder is up ... I assume in a long relief role ... 

 

 

[stringer bell]

I have to say that Brent Headrick opened some eyes with his appearances in long relief. I presume he will be in the St. Paul rotation and he might be a candidate sometime this year to get starts with the Twins. 

As far as Winder's role, he's pitched multiple innings and would probably be asked to throw multiple innings, but really be a "long man". Sands is available to be recalled this weekend and they could add him and subtract either Moran or Pagan, if they want a real long man. 

 

[SwainZag]

Alex is going to make the FO make a decision soon

 

 

[DJL44]

On 4/27/2023 at 12:08 PM, stringer bell said:

If the wrist is well enough for him to be playing 5 days a week

Will Kirilloff play 5 days a week for the Twins? They have plenty of other options at the positions Alex plays. He could easily play 3-4 days a week without figuring in the injury.

[stringer bell]

Assuming Farmer for Castro on or about May 9th, here are my position player injury replacement scenarios for the month of May: Kepler, Larnach or Gallo—Kirilloff. Buxton—Kirilloff. Taylor—most likely Kirilloff, perhaps Garlick. Vazquez or Jeffers—Tony Wolters (40-man move required). Gordon—perhaps Castro most likely Kirilloff. Farmer—Castro. Solano—perhaps Kirilloff, most likely Castro. Miranda, Correa—Castro. Polanco—Julien. 
 

I assume both Lewis and Celestino will start their rehab assignments on or about 5/10, making them eligible to be recalled in the last couple days of May. Lewis might have a similar situation to Kirilloff, if there is no easy path to playing time when his rehab ends, he could be optioned. Celestino almost certainly gets optioned to St. Paul

[Riverbrian]

9 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

Assuming Farmer for Castro on or about May 9th, here are my position player injury replacement scenarios for the month of May: Kepler, Larnach or Gallo—Kirilloff. Buxton—Kirilloff. Taylor—most likely Kirilloff, perhaps Garlick. Vazquez or Jeffers—Tony Wolters (40-man move required). Gordon—perhaps Castro most likely Kirilloff. Farmer—Castro. Solano—perhaps Kirilloff, most likely Castro. Miranda, Correa—Castro. Polanco—Julien. 
 

I assume both Lewis and Celestino will start their rehab assignments on or about 5/10, making them eligible to be recalled in the last couple days of May. Lewis might have a similar situation to Kirilloff, if there is no easy path to playing time when his rehab ends, he could be optioned. Celestino almost certainly gets optioned to St. Paul

The Twins have the flexibility to make Kirilloff the call up for any position player that goes on the DL... Besides Catcher of course. 

If it's Correa or Miranda going on the DL... Call up Kirilloff. Gordon can slide into a Farmer or Solano role while Farmer or Solano can slide into a Correa or Miranda or Polanco role.  

[chpettit19]

10 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

Assuming Farmer for Castro on or about May 9th, here are my position player injury replacement scenarios for the month of May: Kepler, Larnach or Gallo—Kirilloff. Buxton—Kirilloff. Taylor—most likely Kirilloff, perhaps Garlick. Vazquez or Jeffers—Tony Wolters (40-man move required). Gordon—perhaps Castro most likely Kirilloff. Farmer—Castro. Solano—perhaps Kirilloff, most likely Castro. Miranda, Correa—Castro. Polanco—Julien. 
 

I assume both Lewis and Celestino will start their rehab assignments on or about 5/10, making them eligible to be recalled in the last couple days of May. Lewis might have a similar situation to Kirilloff, if there is no easy path to playing time when his rehab ends, he could be optioned. Celestino almost certainly gets optioned to St. Paul

Agree with all but Taylor. I think they'd actually bring Castro back if Taylor went down. Assuming it's at a point where they're still not playing Buxton in CF. I don't think they have any interest in playing Gordon vs lefties, or a bad defender in CF, so Castro would be the call to play CF vs lefties. If Buxton is back playing CF I'd agree with your most likely Kirilloff, perhaps Garlick stance.

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, Riverbrian said:

The Twins have the flexibility to make Kirilloff the call up for any position player that goes on the DL... Besides Catcher of course. 

If it's Correa or Miranda going on the DL... Call up Kirilloff. Gordon can slide into a Farmer or Solano role while Farmer or Solano can slide into a Correa or Miranda or Polanco role.  

I don't think they trust Gordon on the left side of the infield, and I don't know if they'd want Kirilloff up to sit on the bench. Miranda or Correa going down wouldn't open a spot in the lineup for Kirilloff so I wouldn't be surprised by a Castro call to backup Farmer and whichever other left side of the infield is still there.

[Riverbrian]

4 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

I don't think they trust Gordon on the left side of the infield, and I don't know if they'd want Kirilloff up to sit on the bench. Miranda or Correa going down wouldn't open a spot in the lineup for Kirilloff so I wouldn't be surprised by a Castro call to backup Farmer and whichever other left side of the infield is still there.

 I know my opinions can be outside of the box that most opinions are stored but In my opinion of course...  He does not have to sit on the bench. Nobody has to sit excessively on the bench.  

Granted... it becomes a lot easier for Rocco if Buxton could play a little CF instead of clogging up the DH spot but even with Buxton in the DH nearly every day. Kirilloff, Gallo, Larnach, Kepler and Taylor are 5 guys who take up 4 positions that can absorb Kirilloff playing time. That's one guy sitting every 5th game to keep everyone decently active and that is if all things are equal. If they are not equal... like Gallo is playing well above average baseball. You can adjust the playing time ratio in Gallo's favor accordingly. If Kirilloff starts knocking the ball around the park, you can adjust that playing time ratio accordingly in Kirilloff's favor and what you end up with is the player or players who are not playing that well... playing less. 

Right now... with the exception of Gallo... none of those players are playing at the level of "We can't sit them one day".

I know that Kepler has heated up in the last 11 games to raise that batting average from the .091 it was on April 16th but Kepler isn't Mike Trout yet. The team doesn't fall apart with him taking a day on the bench every 5th game. Kepler or Gallo can play CF  for a day so Taylor can sit every 5th game or so. Nobody ever has to excessively sit if they deserve to be out there.

Kepler, Taylor, Larnach are doing alright but they are not performing at Eureka levels to stop looking.      

On the subject of Gordon... If they don't trust Gordon on the left side of the infield then his value is further diminished. Castro is now more valuable than Gordon in that scenario.

They are comfortable with Gordon at 2B, LF and CF. Castro plays all of those positions. So what value does Gordon have? On top of that, Gordon is sitting vs. right handers, Castro is at least playing vs left handers. 

Castro is a short side platoon and pinch runner. That type of guy barely has value.

If Castro is more valuable than Gordon is. They need to move on from Gordon... He is not worth worrying about anymore. Run him through waivers. If Castro is more valuable than Gordon is... Gordon would be an extreme waste of a 26 man roster spot.

Wasting a 26 man spot is a part of the reason keeping Kirilloff off the 26 man roster. I can't ever justify wasting a roster spot because we don't have 9 lock down the lineup card and throw away the key guys. No team has that. 

Keep looking for better. Never stop. 

BTW... I think Gordon should get more opportunity. I wouldn't toss him out just yet but you can't be afraid to play him at 3B on occasion. And everything gets a lot easier to manage if they would just let Buxton play some CF.      

[Jocko87]

2 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

I don't think they trust Gordon on the left side of the infield, and I don't know if they'd want Kirilloff up to sit on the bench. Miranda or Correa going down wouldn't open a spot in the lineup for Kirilloff so I wouldn't be surprised by a Castro call to backup Farmer and whichever other left side of the infield is still there.

I don’t trust Gordon on the right side of the infield. 

[chpettit19]

24 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

 I know my opinions can be outside of the box that most opinions are stored but In my opinion of course...  He does not have to sit on the bench. Nobody has to sit on the excessively on the bench.  

Granted... it becomes a lot easier for Rocco if Buxton could play a little CF instead of clogging up the DH spot but even with Buxton in the DH nearly every day. Kirilloff, Gallo, Larnach, Kepler and Taylor are 5 guys who take up 4 positions that can absorb Kirilloff playing time. That's one guy sitting every 5th game to keep everyone decently active and that is if all things are equal. If they are not equal... like Gallo is playing well above average baseball. You can adjust the playing time ratio in Gallo's favor accordingly. If Kirilloff starts knocking the ball around the park, you can adjust that playing time ratio accordingly in Kirilloff's favor and what you end up with is the player or players who are not playing that well... playing less. 

Right now... with the exception of Gallo... none of those players are playing at the level of "We can't sit them one day".

I know that Kepler has heated up in the last 11 games to raise that batting average from the .091 it was on April 16th but Kepler isn't Mike Trout yet. The team doesn't fall apart with him taking a day on the bench every 5th game. Kepler or Gallo can play CF  for a day so Taylor can sit every 5th game or so. Nobody ever has to excessively sit if they deserve to be out there.

Kepler, Taylor, Larnach are doing alright but they are not performing at Eureka levels to stop looking.      

On the subject of Gordon... If they don't trust Gordon on the left side of the infield then his value is further diminished. Castro is now more valuable than Gordon in that scenario.

They are comfortable with Gordon at 2B, LF and CF. Castro plays all of those positions. So what value does Gordon have? On top of that, Gordon is sitting vs. right handers, Castro is at least playing vs left handers. 

Castro is a short side platoon and pinch runner. That type of guy barely has value.

If Castro is more valuable than Gordon is. They need to move on from Gordon... He is not worth worrying about anymore. Run him through waivers. If Castro is more valuable than Gordon is... Gordon would be an extreme waste of a 26 man roster spot.

Wasting a 26 man spot is a part of the reason keeping Kirilloff off the 26 man roster. I can't ever justify wasting a roster spot because we don't have 9 lock down the lineup card and throw away the key guys. No team has that. 

Keep looking for better. Never stop. 

BTW... I think Gordon should get more opportunity. I wouldn't toss him out just yet but you can't be afraid to play him at 3B on occasion. And everything gets a lot easier to manage if they would just let Buxton play some CF.      

First, I don't think any of that is crazy. But I think it's more complicated than simply "5 guys for 4 spots."

I don't want Kepler or Gallo anywhere near CF (well I suppose LF and RF are near CF). They're not CFers. And Gordon isn't a 3B, so I don't want him there even if it's "on occasion."

Castro is currently the backup at 3B and SS. He'll go down for Farmer who will take the backup 3B and SS role he was supposed to have to start the season.

But, as of right now, I think Gallo, Kepler, and Larnach are all playing at a level that dictates they have the playing time adjusted in their favor. That's really the "problem." You may disagree, and that's all good. I don't think any of them currently deserve to sit 20% of the time. That's a 130 game starter over a full season. I think they're all playing well enough to deserve more than that.

I'm not suggesting they stop "looking for better." I'm suggesting that there's not enough ABs at the major league level for how I feel the players currently on the roster are playing, mixed with the combination of positions they should be playing. To me it's 4 guys for 3 spots (if you call up Kirilloff, and aren't playing Buxton in CF), and now you're rotating them all out 25% of the time if it's evenly split. And I don't think any of them should be rotated out that frequently, and if even 2 of them are rotated out less frequently than that you're looking at 1 or 2 of them basically becoming bench pieces. And I don't think that's the best use of resources.

Castro being on the bench for pinch running, and as a defensive backup, isn't a "wasted 26 man spot" to me. You're never going to have 13 position players that deserve everyday playing time, and a utility player like Castro is useful. I don't know that he's anymore or less useful than Gordon. Because Gordon can't play the left side of the infield. Gordon's problem is he's not as good defensively as Taylor, and Taylor is hitting well enough that Gordon's bat doesn't make up for his glove in CF. And every other position he can handle (2B and LF) is covered by a better left handed (or switch) bat.

To summarize: Larnach, Gallo, and Kepler all deserve to be more than a 130 game starter (if you go by your 5 for 4 spots), and definitely deserve to be more than 120 game starters (if you go with my 4 for 3 spots) right now. That may change, or one may get injured, but 20-25% is too much to sit any of them, and if you do less than that with any of them then at least 1 of them is sitting more than 25% of the time and you're looking a 100-110 game starter and none of those guys deserve that right now. And Gordon needs to out hit Polanco or Taylor by a lot, or Larnach at all, to get playing time. I'm just not as comfortable as you seem to be playing guys in positions they aren't good enough to play.

[chpettit19]

40 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

I don’t trust Gordon on the right side of the infield. 

I'd take him over Solano at 2B vs a righty, but we have Polanco back so there's no real spot for him there.

[Riverbrian]

26 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

First, I don't think any of that is crazy. But I think it's more complicated than simply "5 guys for 4 spots."

I don't want Kepler or Gallo anywhere near CF (well I suppose LF and RF are near CF). They're not CFers. And Gordon isn't a 3B, so I don't want him there even if it's "on occasion."

Castro is currently the backup at 3B and SS. He'll go down for Farmer who will take the backup 3B and SS role he was supposed to have to start the season.

But, as of right now, I think Gallo, Kepler, and Larnach are all playing at a level that dictates they have the playing time adjusted in their favor. That's really the "problem." You may disagree, and that's all good. I don't think any of them currently deserve to sit 20% of the time. That's a 130 game starter over a full season. I think they're all playing well enough to deserve more than that.

I'm not suggesting they stop "looking for better." I'm suggesting that there's not enough ABs at the major league level for how I feel the players currently on the roster are playing, mixed with the combination of positions they should be playing. To me it's 4 guys for 3 spots (if you call up Kirilloff, and aren't playing Buxton in CF), and now you're rotating them all out 25% of the time if it's evenly split. And I don't think any of them should be rotated out that frequently, and if even 2 of them are rotated out less frequently than that you're looking at 1 or 2 of them basically becoming bench pieces. And I don't think that's the best use of resources.

Castro being on the bench for pinch running, and as a defensive backup, isn't a "wasted 26 man spot" to me. You're never going to have 13 position players that deserve everyday playing time, and a utility player like Castro is useful. I don't know that he's anymore or less useful than Gordon. Because Gordon can't play the left side of the infield. Gordon's problem is he's not as good defensively as Taylor, and Taylor is hitting well enough that Gordon's bat doesn't make up for his glove in CF. And every other position he can handle (2B and LF) is covered by a better left handed (or switch) bat.

To summarize: Larnach, Gallo, and Kepler all deserve to be more than a 130 game starter (if you go by your 5 for 4 spots), and definitely deserve to be more than 120 game starters (if you go with my 4 for 3 spots) right now. That may change, or one may get injured, but 20-25% is too much to sit any of them, and if you do less than that with any of them then at least 1 of them is sitting more than 25% of the time and you're looking a 100-110 game starter and none of those guys deserve that right now. And Gordon needs to out hit Polanco or Taylor by a lot, or Larnach at all, to get playing time. I'm just not as comfortable as you seem to be playing guys in positions they aren't good enough to play.

You are right... it is certainly much more complicated than 5 guys for 4 positions. As always... your opinions are well thought out but you do have concerns or qualifications that are not mine. 😉

1. Miranda isn't good enough defensively at 3B to be concerned with whatever discrepancy's you feel Gordon has defensively at the position. Gordon was a SS, Moved to 2b and then to the OF. That's a ball player... He can play 3B... I'll bet on it. 

2. Kepler has played CF for us in the past. He's fine. It's an unnecessary restriction to say you want him nowhere near that position. 

3. Gallo deserves all the playing time he can handle at this point. Gallo has been incredible in a Twins uniform thus far. Love watching him play every game. I hope he just keeps going and going.

Larnach and Kepler. They have been average at best. You don't lock in on average. I won't argue that Larnach and Kepler deserve playing time... but they don't deserve the playing time that Gallo is earning right now. They can yield here and there. 

Perhaps the big difference between your thoughts and mine is this. I do believe that you can find 13 players who deserve every day playing time but you will never get there if Kepler and Larnach are performing good enough to stop you from trying to get there or if you think the defensive drop off between Miranda and Gordon or Taylor and Kepler can't be over come. 😉

[chpettit19]

2 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

You are right... it is certainly much more complicated than 5 guys for 4 positions. As always... your opinions are well thought out but you do have concerns or qualifications that are not mine. 😉

1. Miranda isn't good enough defensively at 3B to be concerned with whatever discrepancy's you feel Gordon has defensively at the position. Gordon was a SS, Moved to 2b and then to the OF. That's a ball player... He can play 3B... I'll bet on it. 

2. Kepler has played CF for us in the past. He's fine. It's an unnecessary restriction to say you want him nowhere near that position. 

3. Gallo deserves all the playing time he can handle at this point. Gallo has been incredible in a Twins uniform thus far. Love watching him play every game. I hope he just keeps going and going.

Larnach and Kepler. They have been average at best. You don't lock in on average. I won't argue that Larnach and Kepler deserve playing time... but they don't deserve the playing time that Gallo is earning right now. They can yield here and there. 

Perhaps the big difference between your thoughts and mine is this. I do believe that you can find 13 players who deserve every day playing time but you will never get there if Kepler and Larnach are performing good enough to stop you from trying to get there or if you think the defensive drop off between Miranda and Gordon or Taylor and Kepler can't be over come. 😉

That's the beauty of TD, and sports in general, right? My concerns or qualifications don't match yours and then we debate things that don't really matter, and life is grand! ☺️

1. The Gordon breakdown is interesting. He's a ball player, I'll give you that. But couldn't one read his moving down the defensive spectrum as an indication that he really isn't a very good defender? Especially in the IF since he's been relegated to the OF. If he had to play there for a game it wouldn't be the end of the world, but would we rank him any better than 4th on the depth chart right now? I'd put, as overall players I'd want starting at 3B, the depth chart as Miranda, Farmer, Castro, Gordon. But I'm not a big believer in his bat, and I know some people are so could understand some differences in the Castro vs Gordon ranking. 

2. Yes, Kepler has played CF for the Twins in the past, and by all reports it's been like pulling teeth. He doesn't like it. I understand some fans are of the belief that a player's preferences shouldn't be taken into account, and they should play where they're told, but I'm not one of those fans. These are humans, and if he dislikes it as much as it sounds like he does he shouldn't play there. Not to mention comparing his RF defensive metrics to his CF metrics. He's not a good CFer. Same with Gallo. He's played there, but neither of them are guys you want there unless it's an emergency. But in Kepler's case you're putting a bad fielder in CF who also doesn't want to be there. Doesn't sound like a winning formula.

3. Agreed on Gallo. But I'd add Kepler to that, too. Right now. Today. Kepler has been one of their best hitters since he returned from the IL. I wouldn't bet on him keeping that up, but I wouldn't yield any of his time when he's hot. Larnach is the one who's mostly been average of late so I could see him yielding some time. But, since I think it's 4 guys for 3 spots, there's not enough yielding to be done from Larnach alone to make sense calling up Kirilloff. And I love Kirilloff. I think he's a star. Him and Lewis are the future of this team as far as I'm concerned. But splitting LF starts between Larnach and Kirilloff doesn't sound like the right plan to me. 

Is it possible to find 13 everyday players? Sure, but there's a lot of stuff to unpack there, too. Like the humanity side of things again. Professional players have egos. Telling an everyday guy he has to sit 20-25% of the time doesn't always work out that well. And there's also the definition of "everyday player." Yours and mine may be different. That seems to be the case right now since I feel Kepler and Larnach are currently playing at a level that deserves everyday run. You don't. But, again, that's the beauty of sports!

[Riverbrian]

48 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

That's the beauty of TD, and sports in general, right? My concerns or qualifications don't match yours and then we debate things that don't really matter, and life is grand! ☺️

1. The Gordon breakdown is interesting. He's a ball player, I'll give you that. But couldn't one read his moving down the defensive spectrum as an indication that he really isn't a very good defender? Especially in the IF since he's been relegated to the OF. If he had to play there for a game it wouldn't be the end of the world, but would we rank him any better than 4th on the depth chart right now? I'd put, as overall players I'd want starting at 3B, the depth chart as Miranda, Farmer, Castro, Gordon. But I'm not a big believer in his bat, and I know some people are so could understand some differences in the Castro vs Gordon ranking. 

2. Yes, Kepler has played CF for the Twins in the past, and by all reports it's been like pulling teeth. He doesn't like it. I understand some fans are of the belief that a player's preferences shouldn't be taken into account, and they should play where they're told, but I'm not one of those fans. These are humans, and if he dislikes it as much as it sounds like he does he shouldn't play there. Not to mention comparing his RF defensive metrics to his CF metrics. He's not a good CFer. Same with Gallo. He's played there, but neither of them are guys you want there unless it's an emergency. But in Kepler's case you're putting a bad fielder in CF who also doesn't want to be there. Doesn't sound like a winning formula.

3. Agreed on Gallo. But I'd add Kepler to that, too. Right now. Today. Kepler has been one of their best hitters since he returned from the IL. I wouldn't bet on him keeping that up, but I wouldn't yield any of his time when he's hot. Larnach is the one who's mostly been average of late so I could see him yielding some time. But, since I think it's 4 guys for 3 spots, there's not enough yielding to be done from Larnach alone to make sense calling up Kirilloff. And I love Kirilloff. I think he's a star. Him and Lewis are the future of this team as far as I'm concerned. But splitting LF starts between Larnach and Kirilloff doesn't sound like the right plan to me. 

Is it possible to find 13 everyday players? Sure, but there's a lot of stuff to unpack there, too. Like the humanity side of things again. Professional players have egos. Telling an everyday guy he has to sit 20-25% of the time doesn't always work out that well. And there's also the definition of "everyday player." Yours and mine may be different. That seems to be the case right now since I feel Kepler and Larnach are currently playing at a level that deserves everyday run. You don't. But, again, that's the beauty of sports!

1. Or you could read Gordon moving down the defensive spectrum as the presence of Correa and Polanco, throw in Arraez last year. 2B got a little crowded but as soon as Polanco was hurt and Arraez was playing 1B. It was Gordon at 2B to finish out the year. It was Gordon who started at 2B while Polanco was out this year.

I believe his move to the OF was exactly how you get a ball player into the game when a position is a little crowded. I wouldn't hold it against him. 

2. This is potentially the last year of Kepler in a Twins uniform. You can't discount the possibility of the Twins declining that 10 million dollar club option and you also can't discount the possibility of Kepler signing a minor league contract somewhere afterwards. He needs a big year. I'm not personally aware of his dislike for playing CF but he is in no position to not like something. He's should be fighting for his major league life. He needs to like wherever he can help the team and therefore help himself in the process. 

3. Kepler is in a nice streak... I hope he continues. He had a nice streak last year... he didn't continue. Kepler is still wait and see with me. He had two back to back bad years. Kepler and Pagan are in the same boat with me. I'm not proposing that he be benched at that moment. Unless... he refuses to play CF when asked. 😀 

4. Wait... you didn't use a 4 for your final paragraph. 

Here are a couple of links.  Here is a 23-6 team that has 9 (maybe 10) of 11 players performing at a level deserving of every day playing time and two catchers for 13. 

https://www.mlb.com/rays/stats/ops?playerPool=ALL

Take a look at the playing time distribution. Take a look at the names. Apart from Franco and Arozarena... none of them showed up on the Florida beaches with every day playing time expectation. 

https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-resource/depth-charts/rays    

I also love that the current starting rotation consists of 3 but that is just a side note.  

Will the Rays be there in the end? It's a long season... there are twists and turns to come... it remains to be seen. However, I believe with all my heart... This is how you find 26 guys who can play. The Rays would never take the numbers Max Kepler provides and keep Josh Lowe in Durham... or Luke Raley or Manual Margot. 

It is absolutely possible to find 13 guys who deserve to play and it should be the goal of every team to do so. It's hard to do but it can be done but it can't be done if Kepler is an every day designation. 

     

 

 

 

[Riverbrian]

3 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

That's the beauty of TD

BTW... The Beauty of TD is: Posters like - Glunn, MLR, Jorgenswest, Stringer Bell, Ashbury, Mike Sixel, Swainzag, 9 of 12, Arko, Doc Bauer, the Rally goat, Wabene, Wsnydes, Dr. Gast, Rosterman, Tony Rodney, Squirrel, JD in Capital Letters, Vanimal, LA Law dude, Chief, Nicksapurpleguy and you of course.

I've missed a bunch of others but these are some of the posters who I know have game even if I disagree. 

  

 

[chpettit19]

35 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

1. Or you could read Gordon moving down the defensive spectrum as the presence of Correa and Polanco, throw in Arraez last year. 2B got a little crowded but as soon as Polanco was hurt and Arraez was playing 1B. It was Gordon at 2B to finish out the year. It was Gordon who started at 2B while Polanco was out this year.

I believe his move to the OF was exactly how you get a ball player into the game when a position is a little crowded. I wouldn't hold it against him. 

2. This is potentially the last year of Kepler in a Twins uniform. You can't discount the possibility of the Twins declining that 10 million dollar club option and you also can't discount the possibility of Kepler signing a minor league contract somewhere afterwards. He needs a big year. I'm not personally aware of his dislike for playing CF but he is in no position to not like something. He's should be fighting for his major league life. He needs to like wherever he can help the team and therefore help himself in the process. 

3. Kepler is in a nice streak... I hope he continues. He had a nice streak last year... he didn't continue. Kepler is still wait and see with me. He had two back to back bad years. Kepler and Pagan are in the same boat with me. I'm not proposing that he be benched at that moment. Unless... he refuses to play CF when asked. 😀 

4. Wait... you didn't use a 4 for your final paragraph. 

Here are a couple of links.  Here is a 23-6 team that has 9 (maybe 10) of 11 players performing at a level deserving of every day playing time and two catchers for 13. 

https://www.mlb.com/rays/stats/ops?playerPool=ALL

Take a look at the playing time distribution. Take a look at the names. Apart from Franco and Arozarena... none of them showed up on the Florida beaches with every day playing time expectation. 

https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-resource/depth-charts/rays    

I also love that the current starting rotation consists of 3 but that is just a side note.  

Will the Rays be there in the end? It's a long season... there are twists and turns to come... it remains to be seen. However, I believe with all my heart... This is how you find 26 guys who can play. The Rays would never take the numbers Max Kepler provides and keep Josh Lowe in Durham... or Luke Raley or Manual Margot. 

It is absolutely possible to find 13 guys who deserve to play and it should be the goal of every team to do so. It's hard to do but it can be done but it can't be done if Kepler is an every day designation. 

     

 

 

 

1. When Gordon debuted the 75 year old Andrelton Simmons was playing SS for the Twins. They didn't trust Gordon to play over a completely washed up SS who had no future with the team. Sure, they trust him to play 2B, but not the left side of the infield which is where this conversation started.

2. I'd put my money on this being Kepler's last year with the Twins. There are all kinds of reports about him not liking CF, and the Twins not liking to put him there. They go back years. But this seems like one of those times where we just view things differently. If the goal is to win baseball games you have to take into consideration what your players are comfortable doing. He's not comfortable in CF. He's not good in CF. Why would you put that player in CF? He's either good enough to hold down the RF job or he's really not worth having around. Which leads to #3...

3. I'd put my money on this being Kepler's last year with the Twins. But that doesn't mean I'd sit him while he's playing well in April and May. That's why I said right now he deserves everyday playing time. If Kepler starts struggling my stance on his playing time would change. But right now he deserves playing time.

4. Not sure what the point is with the Rays. I've never said anything about not finding 13 guys who can play. The goal is to find more than 13 guys, actually, because you want depth. There's a difference between "13 guys who deserve to play" and "13 everyday guys." The Rays are actually a great example of the difference since they platoon guys so much.

Diaz, Franco, and Arozarena are everyday guys for them. The rest are platoon guys. Brandon Lowe has started every game but 1 against a righty. He's sat every game but 1 against a lefty. Josh Lowe has started 0 games against lefties, and sat 5 times vs righties. Bethancourt and Mejia split the catcher duties much like Vazquez and Jeffers here. 

The difference between the Twins and the Rays when it comes to this is that they have a bunch of up the middle guys while the Twins don't. That's what ties this all together. The Rays have 3 guys they plug in somewhere in the top 4 of their lineup basically everyday. So do the Twins (Buxton, Correa, Polanco). The Rays then have their lefty bats that hit mostly against righties, and rarely against lefties. Just like the Twins. The difference is the Rays have multiple guys who can truly play CF. The Twins don't. CF is the holdup for the Twins right now (in my opinion). If Buxton was playing there, or 1 of their top 4 lefties were good enough to play it, Kirilloff would be on the Twins today.

But none of that is the same as having 13 "everyday guys." The Twins have just as many guys who can play as the Rays. Neither team has anywhere near 13 "everyday guys." And the Rays pieces fit together better because so many of their guys can play up the middle. The Twins, as we've basically all been saying for years, have too many corner guys, and not enough up the middle guys.

[Riverbrian]

14 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

1. When Gordon debuted the 75 year old Andrelton Simmons was playing SS for the Twins. They didn't trust Gordon to play over a completely washed up SS who had no future with the team. Sure, they trust him to play 2B, but not the left side of the infield which is where this conversation started.

2. I'd put my money on this being Kepler's last year with the Twins. There are all kinds of reports about him not liking CF, and the Twins not liking to put him there. They go back years. But this seems like one of those times where we just view things differently. If the goal is to win baseball games you have to take into consideration what your players are comfortable doing. He's not comfortable in CF. He's not good in CF. Why would you put that player in CF? He's either good enough to hold down the RF job or he's really not worth having around. Which leads to #3...

3. I'd put my money on this being Kepler's last year with the Twins. But that doesn't mean I'd sit him while he's playing well in April and May. That's why I said right now he deserves everyday playing time. If Kepler starts struggling my stance on his playing time would change. But right now he deserves playing time.

4. Not sure what the point is with the Rays. I've never said anything about not finding 13 guys who can play. The goal is to find more than 13 guys, actually, because you want depth. There's a difference between "13 guys who deserve to play" and "13 everyday guys." The Rays are actually a great example of the difference since they platoon guys so much.

Diaz, Franco, and Arozarena are everyday guys for them. The rest are platoon guys. Brandon Lowe has started every game but 1 against a righty. He's sat every game but 1 against a lefty. Josh Lowe has started 0 games against lefties, and sat 5 times vs righties. Bethancourt and Mejia split the catcher duties much like Vazquez and Jeffers here. 

The difference between the Twins and the Rays when it comes to this is that they have a bunch of up the middle guys while the Twins don't. That's what ties this all together. The Rays have 3 guys they plug in somewhere in the top 4 of their lineup basically everyday. So do the Twins (Buxton, Correa, Polanco). The Rays then have their lefty bats that hit mostly against righties, and rarely against lefties. Just like the Twins. The difference is the Rays have multiple guys who can truly play CF. The Twins don't. CF is the holdup for the Twins right now (in my opinion). If Buxton was playing there, or 1 of their top 4 lefties were good enough to play it, Kirilloff would be on the Twins today.

But none of that is the same as having 13 "everyday guys." The Twins have just as many guys who can play as the Rays. Neither team has anywhere near 13 "everyday guys." And the Rays pieces fit together better because so many of their guys can play up the middle. The Twins, as we've basically all been saying for years, have too many corner guys, and not enough up the middle guys.

1. Would you go into the 2021 off season with Nick Gordon as your SS? I wouldn't have... At that point he was a light hitting minor league player with one option remaining and zero MLB AB's. That would be incredibly reckless because we were all speculating if Gordon was even worth a roster spot. Besides Simmons pushing Gordon down the defensive spectrum would be understandable in consideration of Simmons impeccable defensive reputation. 

2. Max Kepler making role demands for his comfort is like Billy Squier with a contract rider that stipulates that the Shooting Star Casino ship in living palm trees for his January Thursday night performance in Mahnomen. 

3. OK

4. First... Check the Roster resource last 6 lineup playing time distribution again. All 6 games were against right handers. Yes they platoon but there are no platoon splits on it.

The Rays have 10 players out of 11 who are performing like Max Kepler is since April 16 and you say he deserves every day playing time... right now based on that. It is possible to have 13 players who deserve to play every day. 

 

[Puckett34]

16 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

BTW... The Beauty of TD is: Posters like - Glunn, MLR, Jorgenswest, Stringer Bell, Ashbury, Mike Sixel, Swainzag, 9 of 12, Arko, Doc Bauer, the Rally goat, Wabene, Wsnydes, Dr. Gast, Rosterman, Tony Rodney, Squirrel, JD in Capital Letters, Vanimal, LA Law dude, Chief, Nicksapurpleguy and you of course.

I've missed a bunch of others but these are some of the posters who I know have game even if I disagree. 

  

 

lol

[Major League Ready]

This is all more complicated short-term (May) than it is long-term (July).  There are two or three transitions that are the most key.  Kirilloff proves healthy and displaces Solano.  Lewis proves ready and replaces Taylor or Gordon.  The third is finding room for Julien.  Julien's inclusion will be a product of other transitions and/or injury so we could come up with multiple ways he becomes a regular part of the active roster.

If we think in terms of combinations of players improving the roster construction, the combination of Lewis/Julien or Lewis/Martin could replace Taylor and Gordon.
 

[Jocko87]

32 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

This is all more complicated short-term (May) than it is long-term (July).  There are two or three transitions that are the most key.  Kirilloff proves healthy and displaces Solano.  Lewis proves ready and replaces Taylor or Gordon.  The third is finding room for Julien.  Julien's inclusion will be a product of other transitions and/or injury so we could come up with multiple ways he becomes a regular part of the active roster.

If we think in terms of combinations of players improving the roster construction, the combination of Lewis/Julien or Lewis/Martin could replace Taylor and Gordon.
 

Taylor isn’t going anywhere.