POLL: Fire Baldelli?

[cHawk]

The Twins have won 7 of 9. I’m not trying to be a debbie-downer, but I’m still not convinced this season can be saved (I would love to be proven wrong).

Do you think Baldelli needs to go after this season? Please share your thoughts down below!

 

[Mike Sixel]

No. Not after the last three years. 

[Nine of twelve]

Whether he should be fired after this season is over can't be determined now because his performance for the rest of this season needs to be considered. For that reason I'm not going to post a vote on the poll. Based on his performance from the time he was hired until today my answer is no, but that answer is not as emphatic now as it was three months ago.

[RonCoomersOPS]

Letting Baldelli go because of one disappointing year after two very good years is how you eventually end up stuck with bottom-of-the-barrel managers like Gardenhire and Molitor. No thanks. He's not without fault, to be sure, but I'd rather ride it out with Baldelli and see how he rebounds from this mostly disappointing year.

[TNtwins85]

As much as I’ve questioned his moves I think you give him next year if we’re retooling for ‘22. He needs an experienced bench coach next to him and we need a new hitting coach. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

I'm not at all happy with this performance this season but after two good seasons, I think he gets another year to see if he rebounds.

But get the man an experienced bench coach already, please.

[notoriousgod71]

It really doesn't matter if Rocco is the manager or not. I strongly dislike him but I wonder how much of the dumb stuff he does is at Falvine's directive.

Gone are the day's of the manager putting his mark on a team. We now take our marching orders from formulas.

[In My La Z boy]

Extremely hard to listen to his press conferences. I prefer bold, blunt and matter of fact. All I hear are long winded, meandering word salad mish mash comments of nothingness. 

I do miss the Denny Green press conferences. At least I felt better after a loss.

[wsnydes]

Nope.  If you're going to blame him for this season, you've got to give him credit for the last two.  

[Vanimal46]

2 hours ago, notoriousgod71 said:

It really doesn't matter if Rocco is the manager or not. I strongly dislike him but I wonder how much of the dumb stuff he does is at Falvine's directive.

Gone are the day's of the manager putting his mark on a team. We now take our marching orders from formulas.

Of course the manager and FO need to be aligned on their strategy. If it’s not Rocco, they’ll hire someone else who aligns with them. 
 

What examples do you have of managers putting their mark on a team? 

[In My La Z boy]

22 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Of course the manager and FO need to be aligned on their strategy. If it’s not Rocco, they’ll hire someone else who aligns with them. 
 

What examples do you have of managers putting their mark on a team? 

Agree with this. I'd answer Francona if there is one good example. He made the difference when he landed in Cleveland after the run with the Sox. 

[beckmt]

He is too nice and needs to go.  We need a manager who can kick some butt, and holds players accountable.  He does neither.  

[notoriousgod71]

3 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

Of course the manager and FO need to be aligned on their strategy. If it’s not Rocco, they’ll hire someone else who aligns with them. 
 

What examples do you have of managers putting their mark on a team? 

Probably only LaRussa  currently. Everyone else is the exact same.

I'm lamenting there are no managers like that anymore.

[notoriousgod71]

1 hour ago, beckmt said:

He is too nice and needs to go.  We need a manager who can kick some butt, and holds players accountable.  He does neither.  

Wonder if Dougie wants to come back.

[Dodecahedron]

One has to consider that perhaps the previous two years had little to do with Baldelli.

Molitor had fewer faults than Baldelli, and everyone agreed he had to go.

I agree that the bizarre decisions and lack of attention to detail was not apparent until this year.  This doesn't mean it wasn't there before. 

There is very little for the manager to do when the team is breaking home run records.  Baldelli did not have to manage much until the playoffs started, and we all know how that went.

[Dodecahedron]

17 hours ago, wsnydes said:

Nope.  If you're going to blame him for this season, you've got to give him credit for the last two.  

Why?  Isn't it possible that a record-setting home run smashing team was masking the problems with the manager?

[wsnydes]

12 minutes ago, Dodecahedron said:

Why?  Isn't it possible that a record-setting home run smashing team was masking the problems with the manager?

Isn't it possible that endless injuries and a hodgepodge pitching staff are making life for the manager more difficult?  Why does Baldelli not get credit for an offensive juggernaut that he managed but then gets blamed for things that are outside of his control?

I'm not really a fan of Baldelli, but the inconsistency of giving a manager all of the blame and none of the credit is tiresome.

[MMMordabito]

I just don't like him and no longer care what he has to say. If he gets another year, so be it. I hope he fails.

[Seth Stohs]

Right man for this team. I continue to be impressed with him and his demeanor and his cool/calm... I think it's a fair poll, but i think it should be clear that the answer should be No.  Dude knows the game. He knows the analytics side. He knows the player's side. He can relate. He's going with the rookies at this point. He's going with what he's got in the bullpen and rotation. He's taking care of arms. Zero question in my mind that he's a terrific manager, even if I don't agree with 100% of in-gam decisions. 

[Dodecahedron]

1 hour ago, wsnydes said:

Isn't it possible that endless injuries and a hodgepodge pitching staff are making life for the manager more difficult?  Why does Baldelli not get credit for an offensive juggernaut that he managed but then gets blamed for things that are outside of his control?

I'm not really a fan of Baldelli, but the inconsistency of giving a manager all of the blame and none of the credit is tiresome.

I think the opposite view from yours is equally consistent.  

Record home run hitting offense masking a manager's flaws.  Take away the home runs or put him in the playoffs, his flaws show.  Consistent.

What you may be perceiving is that because his flaws were masked, only now are they becoming evident to people.  You are seeing a change in opinion, not inconsistency.

[wsnydes]

28 minutes ago, Dodecahedron said:

I think the opposite view from yours is equally consistent.  

Record home run hitting offense masking a manager's flaws.  Take away the home runs or put him in the playoffs, his flaws show.  Consistent.

What you may be perceiving is that because his flaws were masked, only now are they becoming evident to people.  You are seeing a change in opinion, not inconsistency.

I didn't say that there weren't warts in 2019.  The difference here is that I'm also giving him credit for the offense, not just ripping him for the flaws.  I had my quarrels then too.  That hasn't changed at all, actually.  In fact, I still have the same issues with his managing now as I did then.  Those have always been there for me.  I even agree that the home runs covered up the issues, because they did.  However, it is inconsistent to not give him some credit for the good but then rip him for the other things.  

There's a nuance here that I think is getting missed.  Perhaps I'm not explaining clearly.  You're touching on it, but I don't interpret your overall comments as having that opinion.  There's a difference between changing an opinion and cherry picking the bad and ignoring the good.  What I'm referring to is those in the latter category.  I agree, changing of opinion is not inconsistency.  Ignoring the positives to embrace the negatives is though.  I think we're both in agreement in saying that he's always been a questionable manager, I'm simply giving him credit for the offensive output.  He had his hand in that and should get some credit for it.  That doesn't mean that he didn't have flaws or that he was even a good manager.  Just that he should get some credit for it.  I don't think you're ignoring the positives, you're illustrating that the flaws have always been there, which I agree with.

[AceWrigley]

You don't have to manage homeruns.

[wsnydes]

27 minutes ago, AceWrigley said:

You don't have to manage homeruns.

No, but the prep that you and your staff do before a game can help produce them.

[AceWrigley]

17 minutes ago, wsnydes said:

No, but the prep that you and your staff do before a game can help produce them.

Which might point more to the losses of bench coach Derek Shelton and hitting coach James Rowson.

[TheBoofIsLoose]

2 hours ago, wsnydes said:

I'm not really a fan of Baldelli, but the inconsistency of giving a manager all of the blame and none of the credit is tiresome.

It's making it harder to actually have a discussion about Baldelli too with people throwing in hot takes without any real evidence behind them as some alleged smoking gun. I think his faults have been more apparent this year and he should be open to criticism, as should the entire team. I'm not a die hard Baldelli fan, but I feel like I come across as one because people on here resort to saying inane things like, "he's a computer" or "only manages with a spreadsheet that's why he lost the clubhouse." Those aren't complaints based in reality and you can't argue with fiction.

2 hours ago, Dodecahedron said:

Molitor had fewer faults than Baldelli, and everyone agreed he had to go.

Case in point, a hot take with no evidence.

[wsnydes]

1 minute ago, AceWrigley said:

Which might point more to the losses of bench coach Derek Shelton and hitting coach James Rowson.

Agreed.  There are more factors there, for sure.

[wsnydes]

2 minutes ago, TheBoofIsLoose said:

It's making it harder to actually have a discussion about Baldelli too with people throwing in hot takes without any real evidence behind them as some alleged smoking gun. I think his faults have been more apparent this year and he should be open to criticism, as should the entire team. I'm not a die hard Baldelli fan, but I feel like I come across as one because people on here resort to saying inane things like, "he's a computer" or "only manages with a spreadsheet that's why he lost the clubhouse." Those aren't complaints based in reality and you can't argue with fiction.

I know what you mean.  I feel like I'm defending the guy here, but I'm definitely not trying to!  

His faults have certainly been more obvious this year.  Winning cures a lot of things and they clearly aren't winning right now.  And it's fair to criticize him for many things, though there are obvious areas that aren't his fault (bullpen composition).  As I mentioned in another post, I've got the same issues now that I had in 2019.  That's all fair.  But he's got to get some credit for guiding the team to two division titles.  That's where I think some are inconsistent.

[Dodecahedron]

Looks like I finally made it, my personal opinions have been elevated to "hot takes."  Cool!

[4twinsJA]

My answer is no. Would change to yes if he would lose player's confidence. The rest of the year is a loss and Twins hopefully will be able to trade some of their veterans, so will be difficult to judge from W/L. Injuries and poor free agent signings not RB's fault. I would think RB is learning more about being a manager this year than he did in 2019 when everything seemed to fall into place.

[jjswol]

You don't have an unexpected bad season like 2021 without someone paying the price and Falvey and Levine are safe for the time being. There has to be a "blood-letting" and Rocco is the logical suspect. The FO won't be fired, the players can't be fired so who do you have left?