Mauer/Sano: Double Standard on Strength/Conditioning?

[DrNeau]

According to the Star Tribune, Miguel Sano's workouts this off-season are being viewed by the Twins' front office, in an effort to more closely track progress. I think this is a good thing, and I am pleased to see that Falvey is holding Sano accountable during the off-season. That being said, I am curious as to why Joe Mauer was never held to such a standard. It is well-documented (below) that for Joe Mauer, 5 off-seasons were interrupted. 3 off-seasons had no significant weight training and were replaced with stretching. Mauer claimed several years were affected by blurred vision, and the team didn't even know about it during that whole duration. Additionally, Mauer made a comment that he had not lifted weights with his legs for his entire first 10 years in the majors. 

 

Does the team want to be more involved and have a better handle on its players' strength & conditioning? If so, that is great. I just wonder why it has taken until December of 2018 to make the effort. What gives?

 

Joe Mauer Documentation:

 

2/18/09: Mauer waits until 12/22/09 to have a kidney surgery, which reportedly "ruined his off-season conditioning". "Mauer has not swung a bat since the end of last season." "After some initial relief, the symptoms returned and prevented him from running at all this spring."

 

4/14/11: Mauer goes on DL for 60 days because of "bilateral leg weakness", which had been "lingering" since the off-season. Mauer rehabs to extended spring training. 

 

8/28/11: Mauer calls season a "grind". Article stated he wanted to commit to better conditioning. Stated his '09-'10 off-season was negatively affected by a heel injury, and he is looking forward to a regular off-season. Stated his '10-'11 off-season was abbreviated because of a knee surgery in December. 

 

3/7/14: Makes statement that he got “all” of his leg workouts in the past by catching bullpens. The “past”, at the time of this quote, amounted to 10 years and 29 days since his first MLB game. 

 

1/21/14: Joe Mauer states he had not yet swung a bat all off-season. Concussion reportedly impacted off-season training. 

 

2/3/15: Mauer began bypassing the team's strength and conditioning program, and instead spent off-season stretching with his stretching trainer, who updated the Twins' strength and conditioning coach on progress. 

 

2/12/16: Mauer states that he sometimes feels concussion-like symptoms which impact off-season workouts. States his vision has been affected for multiple years, due to a concussion.

 

2/17/16: After multiple down years, Mauer brings a camera crew into his Mauer Chevrolet gym and squats a whopping 55-pounds with his fat stretching trainer watching. The whole article focused on how Mauer was "finally" healthy, and how he could finally prepare for the season how he would like to. 

[Platoon]

11/?/18 Joe Mauer announces retirement.

[DrNeau]

12/?/18: Suddenly there is accountability for off-season strength & conditioning.

[theBOMisthebomb]

Mauer was in shape. Sano wasn't/isn't. Times are changing. The Twins are moving forward and are no longer a small time organization. The Twins are using technology better and technology has improved. There are many reasons beyond a double standard. I am not going to say that Joe didn't get a pass on some things because of who he is. Heck, you could say Sano has been given a free pass on lack of conditioning and other things. Sano painted himself into this corner when it comes to conditioning. The Twins are being reasonable.

[Vanimal46]

10/2/2018 Minnesota Twins fire long time strength and conditioning coach.

 

http://m.startribune.com/twins-fire-strength-and-conditioning-coach-perry-castellano/494969061/

 

End thread.

[notoriousgod71]

The picture of Mauer lifting weights was one of the funniest things I've ever seen.

[gunnarthor]

There are many obvious reasons and all of them are partly true. We all know them.

[Thrylos]

There is a great interview of Falvey on the subject (among other things) at the 1500 ESPN.

 

I don't see it as double standard at all.  All MLB and MiLB players have the right to do what they want to do during the off-season.  Sano decided to continue his conditioning program that started at Fort Myers last season and the Twins are giving him the tools he needs to be successful.   I am pretty sure that if other players have asked for similar tools, they would be available to them.

 

It is not about standards.  It is about initiative, determination and availability of tools.  Or not.  

[Number3]

I have no idea what kind of weight training Sano is doing but, in my humble opinion, it should not be the heavy weight, bulk up type but should be low weight, high rep followed by cardio and emphasis on diet.

 

As far as Mauer is concerned, playing ability and stats not with standing, it was obvious that Mauer wrote his own script with the Twins and was basically untouchable. Now that Harold Baines is in the Hall, Mauer will probably be close behind which proves that MLB is running out of real Hall candidates.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

I agree that the players should have contractual requirements for their off season conditioning and for diet also. They are being paid too much money not to be required to do all possible to maximize the owners' investment. We should also require that during the off season they live at the Ft. Myers' training complex in dorms and eat only at a training table and have lights out at 10 pm, since a good night's sleep is important. Weekend conjugal visits could be allowed, but only for married players, and only if they met their strength goals for the prior week. And no champagne victory parties (champagne is bad for the eyes). 

[USAFChief]

 

I agree that the players should have contractual requirements for their off season conditioning and for diet also. They are being paid too much money not to be required to do all possible to maximize the owners' investment. We should also require that during the off season they live at the Ft. Myers' training complex in dorms and eat only at a training table and have lights out at 10 pm, since a good night's sleep is important. Weekend conjugal visits could be allowed, but only for married players, and only if they met their strength goals for the prior week. And no champagne victory parties (champagne is bad for the eyes). 

Not a problem for our Twins.

[Shaitan]

This timeline would be more useful if it didn't include concussion-related recovery. A brain injury will have a different protocol than one of conditioning.

 

That said, no, I see no double standard. Different injuries require different treatments and follow-through. Quality medical treatment will treat everyone differently based on their own history and concerns. Plus, treatments and employer responses are constantly changing, so comparing past to present is irrelevant. 

 

(Mauer also returned form bilateral leg weakness and won an MLB award. Sano was demoted to A-ball after his leg injury.)

[bird]

 

Not a problem for our Twins.

 

 

Hilarious. If they unscrewed a bottle (hey, it's the cheap Pohlads, no corks) every time a player earned a sombrero, we'd have the first sightless team in baseball.

[Major League Ready]

They required nothing of Mauer so the standard has changed. It's clearly is a double standard if Sano is the only player the team requires to follow an off-season plan. However, the teams follows reasonable practices in identify the players in need and acts accordingly, it's a change in policy/practice which is a very good idea. The Miami Heat developed stringent conditioning practices for their entire roster.

[Thrylos]

 

Hilarious. If they unscrewed a bottle (hey, it's the cheap Pohlads, no corks) every time a player earned a sombrero, we'd have the first sightless team in baseball.

 

Even Andre (not the Giant) comes with corks...

[Thrylos]

 

They required nothing of Mauer so the standard has changed. It's clearly is a double standard if Sano is the only player the team requires to follow an off-season plan. However, the teams follows reasonable practices in identify the players in need and acts accordingly, it's a change in policy/practice which is a very good idea. The Miami Heat developed stringent conditioning practices for their entire roster.

 

Did you see the word requires (or mandates or the like) anywhere?   

You won't.  It is against the CBA.

 

It is something that Sano and the team agreed on.  Sano took the initiative for the plan.

[SomeGuy]

Gotta point out that most of the Mauer stuff was under an entirely different regime.  Its not fair to say this front office has a double standard when they weren't behind the wheel for Mauer.  Also I believe more goes into this than we are aware.  I believe most players and not just Sano have offseason plans implemented by the front office and they check up on them.  I don't think this is a new thing.  More so on the younger developing players. 

 

Also I don't believe we can complain that much about how Sano should have done more last offseason.  Falvey was quoted as saying the injury/surgery left him "completely immobilized" pretty much right up to spring training.  He wasn't working out because he fouled a pitch off his leg and had to have surgery not because he was lazy.  Glad he is working on strength and conditioning but if a thinner guy seriously injures his leg and struggles the next season people just say "leg injuries are tough."  His weight was not ideal but I don't know how much can be attributed to that.

 

 

[RatherBeGolfing]

 

The picture of Mauer lifting weights was one of the funniest things I've ever seen.

 

http://i1.wp.com/www.twincities.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Mauer-workout-001A.jpg?fit=1860%2C1046px

[Platoon]

I had sort of thought that when Mauer retired and no longer took the fans hard earned money in a dishonest manner by representing himself as a player who had MLB ability that some of the angst would disappear. Silly me!

[Squirrel]

 

Even Andre (not the Giant) comes with corks...

Well, cork in a broad definition as they are made of plastic and not actual, uh, cork.

[bird]

 

Well, cork in a broad definition as they are made of plastic and not actual, uh, cork.

 

 

Not relevant to the serious issues of injustice posited here, but Falvey's favorite champagne coincidentally is Andre. Because sustainable.

[USAFChief]

 

Not relevant to the serious issues of injustice posited here, but Falvey's favorite champagne coincidentally is Andre. Because sustainable.

Convenient, as I understand it's Jim Pohlad's favorite as well. Because, well...you know.

 

I wonder if that was a question on the job interview.

[KirbyDome89]

I don't think the two are really comparable. 

 

If Mauer wasn't physically injured he was producing at a high level. He won the MVP following the kidney issue. I'm not sure what qualifies as "significant weight training," but there are certainly other ways to strengthen your body without doing traditional free weight exercises. Lower body injuries aren't uncommon for catchers, and if Mauer felt like the flexibility, agility, and strength he needed were better achieved using non traditional workouts, I'm not sure why his judgement is suddenly suspect. He was one of the best players in baseball for a good stretch of time utilizing that routine. Concussions robbed him of what most likely would've been at least a few more seasons of similar production. 

 

Sano received a similar pass last offseason (rightfully so) when he was dealing with his shin injury. I've been as soft on him as anybody when it comes to conditioning and the perception of him in the media, but even I have a hard time imagining that he's being singled out, or that he was prepared in the same way his teammates were. It's already been mentioned but Sano himself has admitted that he needed to improve. I think where people go with the lack of preparation on Sano's part, and the accusations/assumptions that follow, border on ridiculous at times, but that's an entirely different topic, and one unrelated to Mauer.  

[TheLeviathan]

Seems to me Perkins was the more evident case to juxtapose with Sano....

[ewen21]

Let's not kid ourselves here.  There is a double standard for Mauer and everyone else.  As far as the conditioning goes, he really dropped the ball in that area.  He came into camp out of shape in 2011 because he decided "rest" the perscription for that off season.  Joe never did utilize all the time he had during the off season to build strength and that is something he ought to regret.  It is so damn easy for a professional athlete to work out during the off season.  In the case of Joe he badly needed build to build strength.  For a guy his size to not be able to hit 15 to 20 home runs in a season is actually shameful.

 

This isn't to say he needed to bulk up.  He needed to MUSCLE UP.  Hunter worked his ass off during the off season and Joe was the exact opposite.  Yes to the double standard from me.  Sano was fat and out of shape and Mauer was frail for his size and took no initiative to improve it.  

 

 

[Platoon]

Well, cork in a broad definition as they are made of plastic and not actual, uh, cork.

Now that corks me!

[rv78]

If it isn't in your contract there's not much that can be done. You want to come to spring training weighing 400 lbs then so be it, but there are always consequences going forward. I think Sano started to realize that when he got sent down to "A" ball Fort Myers last year. As for Mauer, he was a good catcher that could hit to the opposite field. Beyond that, he was average at best. He wasn't ever held accountable for anything that he could have improved upon and had the free pass because he was the hometown boy. 

[ewen21]

It is what it was. No one in the organization was going to tell Joe he needed to change his program and focus more on building strength during the off season. He should have hit 20 dingers a year by accident with his size, talent and eye for the strike zone. He could have done it would losing OBP or AVG. it boggled my mind how he didn't seem to have a happy zone. Knowing pitch sequences, having a great eye and great reflexes....and yet....

 

And what he did in 2011 was straight up neglect. He came into camp looking frail. It was a red flag for me and I commented on it immediately. They let him skate on it and that really messed up accountability.

[D. Hocking]

There was also the little thing like a knee surgery a month or so before spring training in 2011.   He did not just rest the off season to just recover from normal wear and tear but from a damaged knee.  It is too bad he did not have surgery sooner, but who knows that might have been the team's decision.   They also exacerbated things by trying to push him for opening day when he clearly was not ready.  I think there is a reason why Joe got outside medical and training opinions after how the 2011 knee injury was handled.

 

I remember reading this Gardy interview last summer and wondering why they were not more open about just stating that the knee was messed up (although some of that might fall on Mauer - this is one time where if he had blown his lid in frustration publicly it would have been some beneficial PR).   One of my friends knew some family members and the impression she had at the time was the knee was pretty messed up.  

 

“Fans have the right do whatever they want,” Gardenhire said. “We’ve all been blasted by fans and the media and everybody else. But Joe has always done his job. He’s always caught, and hit. He got the concussion and people complained about that. He had the knee injury (in 2011) and people complained about that.  But it was a knee injury. Whatever they decided to call it, he blew his knee out, and he was trying to play through it. He was playing every day, and how long can you do that catching? He’s a big guy. It’s not easy to do.

 

 

 

https://www.minnpost.com/sports/2018/09/for-someone-who-says-he-hasnt-made-up-his-mind-about-retiring-joe-mauer-certainly-seems-like-hes-savoring-his-last-days-as-a-twin/

 

 

Maybe in his mid or late 20's he could have done more in the off season (and maybe not).  I think the last number of years he has worked on conditioning all year long.   It might not have been what people here wanted, but I think he put time and thought into it (and look at how he worked to improve his 1B defense).    From hearing teammates talk about him, I have gotten the impression that during the season he set an example by his routines before and after games.

 

It is certainly possible that he had gotten special treatment, and that he could have made different training decisions, but I don't think his work ethic was ever an issue.

 

I just hope there are enough good things going on in the 2019 season that we will not need to continually debate Mauer.

 

[akmanak]

I just dont think comparing Sano who is an overweight blob to Joe Mauer who can actually produce on the field and off the field.

 

Couldnt you throw in everyone who has been injured? Buxton, Castro, Morneau, ect. Many have always said our conditioning program has been terrible.