Article: Twins Add Three Players To 40 Man Roster

[Seth Stohs]

 

I think, most of all, this demonstrates the folly of depending on your minor league system to supply your relief needs.

I can't remember how many times I've read the Twins didn't need to sign bullpen help, because doing so would block so and so.
The Twins farm system was just overloaded with all these top end arms.

They've gotten virtually nothing from that.

 

I'm not going to question the strategy, but injuries happen and the Twins have been bitten by injuries to Chargois, Reed, Burdi, Melotakis. Hildenberger is the one who has stayed healthy for the most part to this point. 

 

But I do think that these decisions are very much telling that this offseason the Twins will be adding a couple of spendy relievers. I mean, there are a ton of those 3 year, $21-24 million types available this offseason. 

[Seth Stohs]

 

Are we sure Burdi can just be stashed on someone's 60-day DL most of the season? That seems like a major loophole in the system if there is next to zero cost to the team other than paying out a meager rookie salary. Seems like something is missing here.

 

He can be on the 60 Day DL, but there are a certain number of days that he has to be on the active roster. If he is on the DL longer than that, the rules would bump to the next season. 

[tvagle]

Here's what's available in Rule 5 Draft (from mlbpipeline.com Team's Top 30)
[table]

Arizona Diamondbacks
12. Brad Keller, RHP
19. Victor Reyes, OF
26. Jose Almonte, RHP
Atlanta Braves
13. Travis Demeritte, 2B/3B
15. Dustin Peterson, OF
Baltimore Orioles
19. Randolph Gassaway, OF
29. John Means, LHP
Boston Red Sox
24. Jake Cosart, RHP
25. Kyle Martin, RHP
28. Hildemaro Requena, RHP
30. Jhonathan Diaz, LHP
Chicago Cubs
9. Trevor Clifton, RHP
16. Chesny Young, 2B/SS/OF
22. Charcer Burks, OF
26. Erling Moreno, RHP
29. Jose Paulino, LHP
Chicago White Sox
21. Jordan Guerrero, LHP
29. Luis Martinez, RHP
Cincinnati Reds
20, Gavin LaValley, 1B
26. Nick Longhi, 1B/OF
28. Michael Beltre, OF
Colorado Rockies
15. Dom Nunez, C
21. James Farris, RHP
24. Harrison Musgrave, LHP
Detroit Tigers
21. Jose Azocar, OF
26. Adam Ravenelle, RHP
Houston Astros
16. Jason Martin, OF
Kansas City Royals
14. Ryan O'Hearn, 1B
19. Marten Gasparini, OF
Los Angeles Angels
27. Osmer Morales, RHP
30. Damien Magnifico, RHP
Miami Marlins
10. Jeff Brigham, RHP
23. Ricardo Cespedes, OF
24. Isael Soto, OF
26. John Norwood, OF
27. Austin Dean, OF
Minnesota Twins
9. Kohl Stewart, RHP
10. Lewin Diaz, 1B
23. Jake Reed, RHP
28. Nick Burdi, RHP
New York Mets
12. Wuilmer Becerra, OF
15. Jhoan Urena, 3B
17. Luis Carpio, SS
20. Ali Sanchez, C
Oakland A's
26. Casey Meisner, RHP
Philadelphia Phillies
16. Jose Gomez, INF
23. Carlos Tocci, OF
Pittsburgh Pirates
19. Yeudy Garcia, RHP
26. Tyler Eppler, RHP
30. Adrian Valerio, SS
San Francisco Giants
20. Sam Coonrod, RHP
21. Jordan Johnson, RHP
24. Kelvin Beltre, 2B
Seattle Mariners
12. Luis Liberato, OF
13. Anthony Jimenez, OF
14. Greifer Andrade, OF
22. Ian Miller, OF
28. Chuck Taylor, OF
Tampa Bay Rays
25. Nick Cuiffo, C
Texas Rangers
28. Michael De Leon, SS
Toronto Blue Jays
8. Max Pentecost, C/1B
19. Jordan Romano, RHP
23. Francisco Rios, RHP
24. Patrick Murphy, RHP
30. Angel Perdomo, LHP
Washington Nationals
18. Drew Ward, 3B
23. Taylor Gushue, C
26. Osvaldo Abreu, SS/2B
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[/table] Edited November 21, 2017 by tvagle

[tvagle]

Here's a better look at available players from Roster Resource

[beckmt]

Would be surprised if we lost either Stewart or Diaz.  Would agree with Seth, that it seems the Twins will be signing some relievers this offseason, otherwise some of this makes no sense.  Twins have gone from rebuild to contenders and these moves seem to reflect that change. 

Now if the Twins do not sign some relievers the pitchforks will be out on the website.

[AZTwin]

Here's a better look at available players from Roster Resource

Yeah judging from that list I got to think the Twins lose Diaz and Stewart. I’d like the twins try and grab Max Pentacost of the Blue Jays

[The Wise One]

 

Let's see:

Rogers, Moya, Melotakis, McIver  and I am not counting the likes of Enns or Thorpe or even Mejia and Gonsalves who could pitch from the pen in a pinch.

In your opinion. On major league results Rodgers and Moya. On the others it is a big ole guess. 

[The Wise One]

 

Agree on both of these. Thorpe was a lock of locks. He might be the best pitching prospect in the system.

No one is rostering a 1b/dh that hasn't made it past low a.

I'm a little intrigued by Stewart and Burdi, but Reed/Melo/Bard weren't a priority since they couldn't make the roster last season.

There is always a first. San Diego has a habit of trying.  They made it through last year  Oakland could look at what the Padres did with their 3 rule 5 and consider if they are going to be bad for a year, try to find any talent. Same with the Reds.  They could try to teach a big infielder to be a rf. It has been tried somewhere before

[gman]

So is the rule 5-er who doesn't get picked a minor league free agent? Can he then sign with anyone he wants?

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

So is the rule 5-er who doesn't get picked a minor league free agent? Can he then sign with anyone he wants?

 

I believe you need to have accumulated 5 or 6 years (I think it's 6) of minor league service time to be a minor league FA.

[Thrylos]

 

 

The Twins farm system was just overloaded with all these top end arms.

They've gotten virtually nothing from that.

 

The sad story about this is that both the guy who drafted them and the guy who was running the system that failed to develop them, were given promotions in the organization...

 

No accountability.

[rdehring]

We can now see that there is a new sherriff in town.  And its going to be interesting...I like it!

 

Unlike the past, they cleared 40-man roster space early and didn't refill it with prospects.  Rather, they kept four spots for four players they expect to add over the next month(s).  We can all speculate who they will add, but not even the Twins Execs know who they will be able to sign...although I expect they have a good idea on a couple.  Expect all four spots will go to pitchers, although one could be a bat or catcher.

 

This method of managing the 40-man also tells me that they like the guys they kept on their roster, all of them.  That includes Sleegers, Boshier, and others.

 

Gonsalves, Littell and Thorpe all have a high ceiling.  All those left off have some warts...Stewart's lack of results for much of 5 years plus the knee, Diaz is too far away, Burdi's injuries, etc.

 

They will likely clear a spot on the 40-man at the end of spring training when they move May and/or Hughes to the 60-day DL.  Having had TJ surgery at the beginning of last season, there is no way May is going to be anywhere other than XSP on April 1st.  Personally, I see him spending the first 6 weeks of the year in XSP, then go on a rehab to be ready to rejoin the Twins in June.  Could be as a starter, but more likely as a reliever...which wouldn't prohibit him from going back to the rotation in 2019.  Moving either to the 60-day will open a spot for any player they want to add who was signed to a minor league contract to the 25-man roster.  

 

Do any of the guys left off the 40-man get selected?  We will find out in a few weeks.  The important thing to remember is that only 20 some guys get picked every year.  So the likelihood of losing more than one (or maybe two) of the eight we are all talking about is minimal.

[drjim]

The sad story about this is that both the guy who drafted them and the guy who was running the system that failed to develop them, were given promotions in the organization...

 

No accountability.

"Promotions". They are no longer in charge of those aspects of talent acquisition and development. That's some accountability, no?

[Squirrel]

Moderator Note: Please keep to topic and don’t side step to another tangent. If you wish to discuss scouting and ‘failed’ prospects and related decisions from past administrations, please start another thread. In this thread let’s please keep to the rule 5 draft and the resulting 40-man additions.

[Twins33]

So is the rule 5-er who doesn't get picked a minor league free agent? Can he then sign with anyone he wants?

Nothing changes. The player is still in the Twins org and not on the 40 man.

[gunnarthor]

I think Stewart is a lock to be drafted by some team. He's still young, throws mid 90s and it's easier to hide a pitcher in the pen all year. Why wouldn't a rebuilding team like the Padres or Phillies try that and at least see what he's got in ST? Plus those teams probably still have detailed write ups from his draft year so they'll be intrigued to see if they can 'fix' him. 

 

Interesting, it looks like other top 15 picks from the 2013 draft that weren't protected including Mark Appel (DFA'd), Phil Bickford, Trey Ball and DJ Peterson. I'm not sure what happened with Ball. I thought he'd be ok.

[jorgenswest]

Yeah judging from that list I got to think the Twins lose Diaz and Stewart. I’d like the twins try and grab Max Pentacost of the Blue Jays

Do you like Pentecost over Garver? In the long run he could be much better.

 

However, I think he has TJ prior to being drafted and three shoulder surgeries since. As a result he has caught 20 games since 2014. Being selected and stashed will be another year of lost development. He really deserves a chance to play a few full seasons in the minors to develop his catching and have a real shot at a major league career.

[Vanimal46]

 

Nothing changes. The player is still in the Twins org and not on the 40 man.

 

Which would be ideal for players like Diaz, Stewart, Reed, etc. They could still make the 40 man roster if they prove themselves down the road. Or last the entire 2018 season off the 40 man and not waste an option year. 

[ashbury]

I'd keep Slegers... And, well, he's got three options left

A nitpick that doesn't have bearing on how to use him in 2018, but he must have had one of his options used when they brought him up to the majors in mid-August and then sent him back to Rochester, no?

[ashbury]

So is the rule 5-er who doesn't get picked a minor league free agent? Can he then sign with anyone he wants?

For most of the names being discussed, no. Separate rules determine free-agency for the guys originally signed by a franchise.

 

http://www.milb.com/milb/info/faq.jsp?mc=business#24

 

"All Minor League Uniform Player Contracts between either a Major or a Minor League Club and a player who has not previously signed a contract with a Major or a Minor League Club shall be for a term of seven Minor League playing seasons."

 

It takes a long time to work off your indentured servant status.

 

[jorgenswest]

A nitpick that doesn't have bearing on how to use him in 2018, but he must have had one of his options used when they brought him up to the majors in mid-August and then sent him back to Rochester, no?

Was his first appearance as the 26th man in a double header? Does it matter? He was optioned August 18 and recalled September 4. Does that matter?

[Seth Stohs]

 

A nitpick that doesn't have bearing on how to use him in 2018, but he must have had one of his options used when they brought him up to the majors in mid-August and then sent him back to Rochester, no?

 

Yeah, I believe you are right... Forgot about that... Still, he's got 2 options remaining...

 

Either way, I'm not just letting go of a 6-10 starting pitcher with good durability, tremendous control, a fastball 91-94 and good secondary pitches. No one is saying he'll be a star, but there's definitely enough there, and he's 25, to keep around at least until there is a reason not to.

[jorgenswest]

Yeah, I believe you are right... Forgot about that... Still, he's got 2 options remaining...

 

Either way, I'm not just letting go of a 6-10 starting pitcher with good durability, tremendous control, a fastball 91-94 and good secondary pitches. No one is saying he'll be a star, but there's definitely enough there, and he's 25, to keep around at least until there is a reason not to.

Is there a 20 day rule about options? He would have been recalled in September just short of 20 days. Edited November 21, 2017 by jorgenswest

[Elliot]

Each year the Twins (and every other team) add between 30 and 40 young players thru the draft and undrafted international signings.  The harsh reality is that there will be between 5 and 10 left in the system 4 or 5 years later; with fewer yet ever seeing the majors.  If there is one solid major leaguer found per year you are lucky.  A star every few years is all you can really expect.  The 2012 draft was outstanding in that it produced 4 solid major league players (Buxton, Berrios, Duffey, and Rogers); 2 who have definite star potential. In addition 4 more are still hanging around (Bard, Melotakis, Chargois, and Baxendale) 2 of which are part of this rule 5 discussion.

 

There is basically no one left from the 2011 draft; and 7 or 8 from 2013 and similar number for '14; none of whom have established themselves as even marginal major leaguers at this point (other than Hildenberger in 14).  Along with the two from '12, these individuals make up the current rule 5 discussion.  We love to talk about these names, debate their value, and blame Terry Ryan, Bill Smith, or the new guys; but the reality is that the nature of the beast is that none of these names who were left off the 40 man will even be remembered 2 or 3 years from now.  The good ones make it in 4 or 5 years.  (Disclaimer - international 16 year old signings like Diaz are wild cards).  A new crop will have emerged and the real prospects will be those chosen in the 2014 to 2017 drafts.  The chances are slim of any of the hanger ons who reach rule 5 discussion becoming solid major leaguers, much less stars.  There are always exceptions, but barring injury, high schools seniors make it in 4 or 5 years (age 22 - 24) and college draftees should show up in 3 to 4 (age 24 to 26).  The names to focus on are not Bard, Burdi, Melotakis, and Diaz; but Kiriloff, Lewis, Gordon, Jay, Moran, Badoo,...

[by jiminy]

Bard and Reed were names I've looked forward to seeing in the majors a long time -- high draft picks with mid-90s fastballs. I guess this means they didn't pan out. Not protecting them means you either don't think they're good enough to get selected, or you don't care if they do. Fortunately less famous names like Busenitz and Curtiss came through instead. But I still had  hopes for a deep bullpen populated by Bard, Reed, Burdi, Melotakis, Chargois and Jay, based purely on what I've read. Not second-guessing Falvine; they're not going by words on a page like I am. Just disappointed those guys didn't work out.

[Shaitan]

Int'l money is the new Duensing.

[Old Twins Cap]

 

No one is saying they would be taken by contending teams,

 

But, that's the point, right.  If contending teams don't want those guys, why do Twins? 

 

We are contenders, aren't we?

 

At some point, our yardstick has got to be winning a playoff series, and the ones who don't measure up have to be shipped out, for their good as well as the Twins.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I cannot see Slegers and Boshers when we could lose some of these players.  I guess the new stats must be like reading tea leaves and they see something that I do not. 

 

I do like Gonsalves, Thorpe and Littell, but some of these other players looked too good to dangle in rule V for me.

I think it has everything to do with proximity to the MLB team and virtually nothing to do with future ceiling.

 

You keep the likes of Slegers and Boshers around because your commitment to them is low. If something better comes along, you let them go and pick up a better player.

 

In short, there's nothing to be lost by keeping them around for awhile longer but if you're committing to someone like Rosario, you're planning to let him occupy 40-man roster space for a couple of seasons before he even pitches a game in Minnesota.

 

As for guys like Burdi, I suspect the organization either has no faith in their ability to pitch and/or stay healthy or they're rolling the dice, expecting teams to pass on an oft-injured arm (or to pick him up and then return him to the Twins later in 2018). Either result allows the Twins to kick the can down the road on the player for another season and add them to the 40-man when he looks ready to pitch in Minnesota.

[snap4birds]

 

 

We are contenders, aren't we?

 

This was something I was curious about after the end of the 2017 season.  Would Falvine proceed as if they were 'sticking to the process' of building a long-term success (meaning they would hoard prospects) at the expense of improvement for 2018?  Or would they pursue trades for immediate help, pursue free agents, etc?  

It appears they are going for immediate help (stories about pursuing top free agent SP, leaving spots open on the 40 man).  This tells me they feel the org has the talent and depth needed to compete for the World Series in 2018 (with an addition or 2).

 

The 'false positive 2015 season' is what me wonder about this.  The Twins were in it until the end, but it felt like a fluke.  2017 started out feeling a little like 2015 (negative run differential for a winning record around the trade deadline?). Plus I see a lot of stories/references to "The Process" in sports nowadays.  I hear about it more in NBA stories-the 76ers, Darryl Morey, etc.  So I wasn't exactly sure how these new management guys would proceed.  So I think it's encouraging to see the hints we've seen so far this offseason.  Now comes the hard part of closing on some deals....

 

[kab21]

I am not terribly concerned about any of the guys left off and am intrigued that the FO left 4 open spots for them to work with.

I think Burdi will probably be selected by another org and stashed on the DL. Reed, Bard or even Stewart might as well since they could be stashed as the long man in the bullpen. But that doesn't mean the Twins were wrong to leave them off the 40 man. If they sneak through then the Twins have more flexibility with the roster next season.

 

I also think the Twins chose the correct route to gamble with Diaz. I find it hard to believe that a team could keep him rostered all year with 12-13 man pitching staffs. 

 

Slegers staying on the 40 man is fine and I like Seth's argument but he isn't as necessary with Gonsalves, Romero, Littel (maybe AA) and Jorge all likely in AAA. But don't just toss away a solid arm until there is a true roster crunch.