Should/Will Twins re-sign Torii Hunter?

[PseudoSABR]

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I guess I'd need to wonder how much a player's years of professional growth and hard work, along with years of coaching and mentorship from players at all levels, had an effect and try and weigh it against a few months of mentorship from one guy. All mentorship matters, no doubt. Saying Hunter's % is enough to keep putting him on a 25 man contract is the issue some of us take. 

Sure, but even his putrid second half .663 OPS doesn't necessarily demonstrate that he's isn't worth at least bench role on that 25 man roster.

[USAFChief]

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I guess I'd need to wonder how much a player's years of professional growth and hard work, along with years of coaching and mentorship from players at all levels, had an effect and try and weigh it against a few months of mentorship from one guy. All mentorship matters, no doubt. Saying Hunter's % is enough to keep putting him on a 25 man contract is the issue some of us take. 

And I agree it's time to move on.  Gradually now in 2015, which is one reason Buxton not being here irks me, and permanently in 2016.  

[nicksaviking]

 

Just curious, does Twins Daily group think really dismiss organizational values such as leadership and loyalty completely out of hand?  Of course, there's a point where such values have diminishing returns, but are we so obviously beyond that threshold with Hunter?  (I feel the need to note that baseball players are  not statistical output machines, they are people who require something more than fuel to maximize their abilities).

 

I would guess it's just like finding a rich spouse.  Those attributes are great to have, but the actual talent (or in the case of the spouse, a good personality? body? sense of humor? killer slider?) is what is most valued.

 

Not that Torii doesn't have talent.

 

Or a nice body.

[Buford_T_Justice]

Does he deserve a new contract? Let's see how the youngsters handle the rest of the season and see if any of them get traded. There could be a lot of moving parts this winter.

 

Will he get a new contract? Probably, yes, if he wants to play another year here. IMHO, I really don't see him going to another team to play out his age 41 season.

 

If he doesn't perform, we can "Nolasco" him off to the side with some sort of arm injury so he can still do the dance parties after wins.

 

[Mike Sixel]

Of course leadership and culture matter......but I think that plenty of evidence exists that what matters most is the talent of a player, leadership and culture are secondary to talent.

 

Also.....the fact that the following are options, with upside, that cost less and might be here more than 1 year.......

 

Buxton

Hicks

Rosario

Arcia

Sano/Plouffe

Kepler

any random late FA that can be the 4th OF off the bench

 

None of those are declining 40 year olds.

[jimbo92107]

No point even speculating on resigning Hunter until after Buxton is back in the lineup, and after the Twins promote Kepler. If they play the way they are touted, then there won't be much need for Hunter to come back, except as a coach.

[Brock Beauchamp]

4 months ago all of those same options were available and the prevailing opinion among the faithful on these types of threads was that our OF situation was as dire as any position on any team in the bigs. Now the guys you mention all look like viable options. Is it possible that the presence of Hunter has had something to do with the growth of Hicks and the emergence of Rosario? Not only possible but likely. If there is any chance that statement is true then I want him doing the same thing for Buxton next year that he did for the other two this year. Not at $10 million per but I'd certainly pay him half that. I mean why not-it ain't my money. Of course the other alternative is to continue to keep Shane Robinson around as a dual threat guy in case we need him in the bullpen again.

It's possible Hunter had an impact. I wasn't entirely against the Hunter signing because the Twins needed a warm body with a moderately high floor going into the season.

 

They no longer need that warm body. Their young players have made the necessary adjustments.

[Kwak]

I sure hope NOT!  The purpose of signing him was:  sell tickets due to a familiar name, provide someone that resembles a ML OFer because the Twins were 1+ years away from having three of them, serve as a "mentor" (shoulder to cry on)--whatever for young players (especially non-white players), and a link to the "good times"  when the Twins were relevant.  That link is unnecessary, the "mentoring" function has "happened"--it's old-hat now, The Twins have the necessary complement of OFers--they have no need for an "over-the-hill" players trying to relive "the glory days".  that salary that Hunter would draw--use it to on the bullpen and on another Catcher.

[TheLeviathan]

The glut of young OFs is the number one reason to move on.   We don't have enough at-bats for the kids we need to be playing if we're going to get where we want to go.

 

If we're looking for a veteran backup, I'd hope it would be one capable of being more versatile than Hunter is at this stage of his career.  By all means add him to the coaching staff and keep him in the organization.

[Monkeypaws]

Brock has nailed this thread down tighter than a drum.

 

I would like to see the Twins keep Hunter around in some fashion: all credit to him to remain a viable MLB player at 40. Seriously, I'd take him over Mauer next year, but that won't happen.

[howeda7]

+1.

Torii has supplied slightly more value than I thought he would (when I was staunchly against this move in the off season).    However, like I said before, my youngest son likes Torii.  My mom and sister both LOVE Torii (although neither know what OB% is).

 

For those reasons stated there, and his undying love of veterans (who were his guys), I am guessing that TR signs Torii (70% chance that he does). 

 

I of course will light my hair on fire when this happens.

 

[Thrylos]

They should re-sign Hunter, as much as they should re-sign Robinson and Boyer.

[Winston Smith]

No, No and No, but Terry likely will. IMO it's time for some of these great prospects either sh** or get off the pot!

[dougkoebernick]

This doesn't answer your questions but can you imagine what the team would have been like without his first half hitting and leadership. What if he warms back up in the next six weeks? And what would have been the answer to these questions in June?

[jimmer]

 

This doesn't answer your questions but can you imagine what the team would have been like without his first half hitting and leadership. What if he warms back up in the next six weeks? And what would have been the answer to these questions in June?

His first half hitting was .275/.312/.444.  OPS+ of 112.  Average wRC+ for a RF (and only 7% over league average for all position players). Along with below average defense. WAR of 1.1.

 

So,  I'm gonna guess we would have right around the same as we we ended up in the first half, give or take a win or two.  Now, how much has he hurt us since?

[ashbury]

His first half hitting was .275/.312/.444.  OPS+ of 112.  Average wRC+ for a RF.  I'm gonna guess right around the same, give or take a win or two.

That "average" right fielder does it over the course of an entire season, of course.

[jimmer]

 

That "average" right fielder does it over the course of an entire season, of course.

I I must be tired, because I don't know what you mean here.  I compared him to other RF in the first half.

[ashbury]

I I must be tired, because I don't know what you mean here.  I compared him to other RF in the first half.

OK. I didn't independently fact-check, and got burned.

[dxpavelka]

 

Yeah, except that isn't anywhere near the only alternative.

 

And the idea about Hunter being the key ingredient to Rosario and Hicks doing well this year, that's speculation at the very best.  Maybe they Rays pulled out 30 more wins in 2008 (in comparison to 2007) because they dropped the word Devil from their name?

 

Another thing about giving Hunter all the credit, it takes away credit to like the 30 million other people who have had a hand in their development, along with taking credit away from the players themselves.

Not taking anything away from the players themselves for their development OR giving Hunter ALL the credit.  All I'm pointing out is that Hicks DIDN'T develop when Hunter wasn't here and that Hunter MAY have had an impact and MAY be able to have a similar impact with Buxton going forward.  30 MILLION other people???????  I didnt' realize that 1 out of every 10 people in this country were involved in Twins player development.  Holy s&$@

 

[dxpavelka]

 

It's possible Hunter had an impact. I wasn't entirely against the Hunter signing because the Twins needed a warm body with a moderately high floor going into the season.

They no longer need that warm body. Their young players have made the necessary adjustments.

That "warm body" has driven in 1 more run than our alleged all-star second baseman in 75 fewer plate appearances. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

That "warm body" has driven in 1 more run than our alleged all-star second baseman in 75 fewer plate appearances. 

You think it's appropriate to compare RBI's with a leadoff hitter?  Might as well say Torii is on pace to shatter Rickey Henderson's career high of 74 RBI...

[Minniman]

At $10.5 million, couldn't the Twins have signed a better player as a better mentor? Why Hunter?

 

Torii Hunter left the Twins on his own accord. I have no feelings of loyalty to or from him. Hunter had a decent offensive season in Detroit, but the Twins overpaid for his services, and they will again if he re-signs.

 

The outfielder I would have liked the Twins to go after was Nelson Cruz. Of the outfield free agents, he had the second most pop behind Victor Martinez, and Seattle got Cruz for a 4 year $57 million contract ($14.25 million per season) rather than the 4 yr $68 million ($17 million per season) that Martinez received to stay in Detroit. Both players have had up and down histories, but four year contracts are a pretty good length for 34/35 year old veterans.

[savvyspy]

 

They shouldn't and likely won't, but they will need a veteran OF of some type.

Why is this exactly?? Hicks, Rosario, and Buxton are significant upgrades defensively to any "veteran" outfielder this team has had in the better part of a decade.

[stringer bell]

Unless it is agreed on in advance that Torii won't be an everyday player, it just doesn't make sense to keep him around next year. Unless there is a trade, there will be five outfield options for the three positions--Arcia, Buxton, Hicks, Kepler, and Rosario. The oldest of these guys is Hicks and he's 25. There could be some DH time, but the Twins already have Sano/Plouffe/Mauer for the infield corners and DH. I imagine Kepler could benefit from playing some AAA and perhaps Buxton, too, but by midseason or earlier, all of those guy should be getting big league at-bats.

 

Hunter has been of some value on the field this year and he probably helped the club in the clubhouse. I just don't see signing Hunter for another year, taking away at-bats from the future.

[Shane Wahl]

There isn't a conceivable situation that would make sense for re-signing Hunter.

 

End of story.

[kab21]

Watching this board explode when Hunter is resigned this winter will be massively entertaining.  GET READY!  Popcorn and booze will be on standby all winter.

 

Signing Hunter this year did make sense and it has paid off extremely well.  The Twins had nobody at any of the 3 OF position (and not really DH) that could be counted on.  Hunter has done quite well compared to some of the crap that the Twins have repeatedly run out there over the years.  I also would not dismiss his benefit on the younger players.

 

Next year there isn't a lot of baseball sense to him back.  I would actually like Hunter back in a 60-80 game backup role but the problem is that he will be a starter if he is back.  That is the BIG problem. 

 

There is also no reason that Buxton has to be in MN right now.  He has missed a lot of time (this year and last).  I hope he is up in Sept (can't see why not) though.

 

Ozzie Arcia has completely fallen apart since the AS break.  He has 10 hits in 22 games and almost 30 K's.  I have no idea what happened to him but he is probably finished in MN.  He will get a chance to make the team next year though.  There is no guarantee that he can do anything next year.  It is probably unlikely that he does anything.

 

My ideal situation next year would be to have a truly open competition in the OF next year between Hicks, Rosario, Kepler and Buxton (Arcia also but...) for the 3 starting spots with one of them going to AAA (depth is good).  Hunter can be the 4th OF'er.  I really have no problem with this other than it won't happen like this.

 

 

[stringer bell]

I think it is kind of likely that kab's scenario will play out. Arcia (out of options) will "win" versus Kepler, who would need to spend April in the minors in order to be under team control for an additional year. There's really no need to bring back Hunter, though.

[dxpavelka]

 

You think it's appropriate to compare RBI's with a leadoff hitter?  Might as well say Torii is on pace to shatter Rickey Henderson's career high of 74 RBI...

Actually it is considering that Torii has spent a considerable part of the year batting 2nd behind a guy who seldom gets on without homering.

 

[stringer bell]

Torii needs to pick it up or this will be his worst offensive season as a full-time player.

[spinowner]

Should? No. Will? I hope not.