Article: Tommy Milone: Making A Statement

[nokomismod]

I'm a Milone believer and if it wasn't for the Nolasco contract I would like to see him replace Ricky. Option 1 and let May continue to progress in Triple A.

[clutterheart]

Its a bummer that the future of this club is hampered by bad contracts like Nolasco.   Sending May down because you "can't" do anything with Nolasco would stink.

[Steve Lein]

If you want to keep winning now and put the "best roster" together in an effort to do so as you say you want to, you CAN'T use the "we're paying this guy money" argument.

 

Milone deserves to be in the majors, but nobody in the rotation really deserves to be sent down either, I don't think.

 

So you look to the bullpen, and what I see is either send down Thompson, or cut bait with offseason non-tender candidate, Brian Duensing.

 

Then it's up to whoever is smarter than me to determine if it's Milone, Nolasco, Pelfrey, or May who gets put in the 'pen.

[brvama]

This is likely the same discussion the FO is having right now, but with all the inside information. I'm sure they evaluate, at least weekly, players performance and how they can improve the Twins and the player.

 

That said, IMO, #2 is the best for now, with a short leash on May. There is nothing wrong with sending him back to work on any weaknesses under less pressure situation. Its done all the time and certainly should help his long term development, if there iare areas to improve. Likely all this will sort out in the wash of time.

[Seth Stohs]

I've read this "AAAA Pitcher" comment here and on Twitter last night and today, and frankly, I just don't get it. 

 

To me, AAAA player means that the guy dominates in AAA and does pretty much nothing in the big leagues. Tommy Milone has had quite a bit of success in the big leagues.

 

No, nobody should expect him to come back up and post a sub-3.00 ERA or strike out a batter an inning, but there should be no question that he is a big league pitcher. He's proven that.

[bird]

Franky, I don't give a rat's rear end what they do with Milone, Pelfrey, or any of the mid-to-back rotation and mop-up relief types. I'm happy they have a surplus of options, but we're treading water until or unless a couple guys with mid-to-front rotation and high-leverage talent emerge. And right now, the viable candidates to fill those roles are laboring in Chattanooga.

 

Mr. Ryan, make the phone calls please. Tell your fellow GM's you have an over-supply of pitching and need to cull the herd. But sit tight unless some GM gets desperate or temporarily stupid and offers a nice overpay for ANY of these players. But don't get snookered into taking a Sam Fuld type for Milone, OK?

[diehardtwinsfan]

Send Pelfrey to the pen. That's what I would do.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Also, it should be noted that Durham (Milone's opponent last night) is second worst in the IL in batter K's.  Milone struck out Corey Brown alone 4 times, and he's a LHB with a career ~30% K rate in AAA.  (Another pair came against JP Arencibia.)

 

His previous two opponents are both in the bottom half of the league by total batter K's too.

[jmlease1]

Pelfrey is the one I want pushed out of the rotation if anyone gets pushed. His success is the least likely to be sustained and he's also not going to be part of the team's future. (If he's re-signed next season or god forbid given an extension this season, I'm rage-quitting the Twins. That would be a fireable offense for Terry Ryan.) The only thing that makes me hesitate even a little about that is whether it would reduce the team's ability to flip him for, well, anything when Ervin Santana comes back, but I could live with it.

 

Gibson and May are both contenders to be in the rotation for the next several years, so we need to see who they are in sustained time at MLB. Gibson needs to add in a few more Ks and bring down the walks to sustain his success, but a) both things are viable for him, and he's got a track record and the grounders to do it.

 

May has nothing left to prove in AAA but we need to see if he can learn to be more efficient in his early innings finishing off batters and finding ways to get through that 5th & 6th inning to really be a guy they can count on. but he's shown promise this year and is keeping the walks reasonable.

 

Milone is a nice guy and could be useful as the #5 starter this year. It's great having him as depth this season, and forcing guys to compete for spots and not have people there on scholarship. But I don't see him being a long-term part of this rotation, and I don't think he should push May out of the rotation.

[Mike Sixel]

Keep him in AAA until you decide one of the other number 4/5 guys isn't there.....and move that guy to the bullpen.

 

But I agree with the watcher of birds........I'm not sure it matters if it is Milone, Pelfrey, or Nolasco (it might matter if it is May, since he is 25) as your number 4/5 guy.

 

The bullpen does need help, of all the options, moving him to the bullpen where he can pick up 2-3 MPH.....and DFAing Deunsing makes sense to me, if you think they are winners this year.

[Jham]

 

This is likely to go south as soon as he returns to the majors. Sorry. Pelfrey to the bullpen is better, yes, but I wouldn't get too carried away about a few dominant starts in AAA for Milone.

 

Nevertheless, Milone pitching the same number of starts as May or Pelfrey over the course of the season probably leads to 2-5 more wins if he's at his career average.  Perhaps more in a career year, or if May or Pelfrey completely tank.  

Granted, I've never liked Pelfrey.  I do not know if he actually takes more time to warm up, but I do know that he is in the last year of his contract.  If he ever wants to make major league baseball money again, he better pitch wherever we place him, and he better perform.  I would move Pelfrey to the pen and designate Aaron Thompson who's really struggled of late.  I mean, Pelfrey's about one more bad appearance away from a stint on the DL anyway.
 

[spinowner]

 

 But don't get snookered into taking a Sam Fuld type for Milone, OK?

Ha! I don't think the snookerer will become the snookeree.

[jokin]

 

Honestly, Milone's current AAA performance is more or less what you should expect from a healthy 28 year old with almost 100 MLB starts and who excelled in this same league four years ago (1.0 BB/9, 9.4 K/9, 2.28 FIP).

 

I guess it is encouraging to know that he's healthy, but I don't we can expect him to be significantly improved upon his return to MLB, or suddenly more able to fill a bullpen role.

 

Uhh, I get downplaying this to a great extent- it's safe to say we don't have a revitalized wunderkind knocking on the door, but there aren't many pitchers at any level who could give "more" than the 23 straight scoreless innings, with all the Ks and good control.  What he's accomplished since his demotion is a good example for everyone put into this situation- he's let his performances do his talking about wanting to get back where he belongs.  Let's give the guy the props he deserves, even on the smaller stage.

[bakreutzfeldt5409]

I just found this site a week ago and it has been a breath of fresh air!! Everyone on here is very knowledgeable regarding everything Minnesota Twins and there is very little back and forth arguments about irrelevant topics. Go Twins!! 

[twinsnorth49]

May needs to work through his issues with the big club, just like Gibson did. He's shown stretches of being very good but as someone else mentioned needs to learn to be a little more economical and how to work through the 3rd time through the order. I don't get how working on that in AAA is going to be helpful, swap one guy dominating in AAA for another guy who is just going to do the same? Then what? 

 

Send Pelf to the pen, I've had enough of him in this rotation. Milone can take his spot until Santana is ready and they can go from there. Not sure I advocate trading him yet, he does provide the depth this team has lacked for years now.

[Jham]

 

Franky, I don't give a rat's rear end what they do with Milone, Pelfrey, or any of the mid-to-back rotation and mop-up relief types. I'm happy they have a surplus of options, but we're treading water until or unless a couple guys with mid-to-front rotation and high-leverage talent emerge. And right now, the viable candidates to fill those roles are laboring in Chattanooga.

 

Mr. Ryan, make the phone calls please. Tell your fellow GM's you have an over-supply of pitching and need to cull the herd. But sit tight unless some GM gets desperate or temporarily stupid and offers a nice overpay for ANY of these players. But don't get snookered into taking a Sam Fuld type for Milone, OK?

 

Gaining an extra five wins from the bottom of the rotation means just as much as getting an extra five from the front, unless you're talking playoffs.  Getting more production from the back is certainly a lot cheaper, but it also requires making the right choices among a number of similar options.  Which is why this is important to get right.

 

Regarding those who assume Milone will not be part of the long-term future, Soft-tossing lefties can be very effective and often pitch into their 40's.  I compared Milone to Buehrle in another thread awhile back.  Very similar beginnings to their careers although Buehrle debuted much younger.  If Milone blossoms into a Buehrle or Kenny Rogers, wouldn't we be wise to consider keeping him?  Put another way, if you had to bet actual money on who would be better over the next 5 years: Milone or May, who gets the nod?  

[spinowner]

 

Regarding those who assume Milone will not be part of the long-term future, Soft-tossing lefties can be very effective and often pitch into their 40's.  I compared Milone to Buehrle in another thread awhile back.  Very similar beginnings to their careers although Buehrle debuted much younger.  If Milone blossoms into a Buehrle or Kenny Rogers, wouldn't we be wise to consider keeping him?  Put another way, if you had to bet actual money on who would be better over the next 5 years: Milone or May, who gets the nod?  

This point is well-taken. Who knows? Maybe he's the next Jamie Moyer and he'll be part of the rotation for the next 20 years. Put Berrios and Meyer ahead of him and teams will be so befuddled that it will take 7 innings before they get their bearings.

Edited May 19, 2015 by spinowner

[Shane Wahl]

I would hope that they don't send May back to AAA. That is by far the dumbest possible solution.

[Shane Wahl]

MLB FIP for Milone:

 

2012--3.93

2013--4.30

2014--4.69

2015 early--6.33

 

Whole hell of a lot of the wrong direction there.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I've read this "AAAA Pitcher" comment here and on Twitter last night and today, and frankly, I just don't get it. 

 

To me, AAAA player means that the guy dominates in AAA and does pretty much nothing in the big leagues. Tommy Milone has had quite a bit of success in the big leagues.

 

No, nobody should expect him to come back up and post a sub-3.00 ERA or strike out a batter an inning, but there should be no question that he is a big league pitcher. He's proven that.

 

For me a AAAA player is one that demonstrably dominates AAA but can never capture anything approaching the same level of success in the majors.  Not a non-factor or a do nothing, but a roleplayer rather than a starter. 

 

I don't see Tommy Milone being able to hold down even a back-end rotation job with his stuff.  A transition to the bullpen might be a far better use of his skill set. 

[Jham]

 

For me a AAAA player is one that demonstrably dominates AAA but can never capture anything approaching the same level of success in the majors.  Not a non-factor or a do nothing, but a roleplayer rather than a starter. 

 

I don't see Tommy Milone being able to hold down even a back-end rotation job with his stuff.  A transition to the bullpen might be a far better use of his skill set. 

 

But how do you explain his relative success at the MLB level?  

[Mike Sixel]

 

But how do you explain his relative success at the MLB level?  

 

Luck.

[jokin]

 

For me a AAAA player is one that demonstrably dominates AAA but can never capture anything approaching the same level of success in the majors.  Not a non-factor or a do nothing, but a roleplayer rather than a starter. 

 

I don't see Tommy Milone being able to hold down even a back-end rotation job with his stuff.  A transition to the bullpen might be a far better use of his skill set. 

 

Yep, and add in a low K, heavy flyball guy who might find exaggerated success in O.co, AT&T or Petco  (his HR/FB rate is 50% higher with the Twins than previously).

[Vanimal46]

 

But how do you explain his relative success at the MLB level?  

 

Being a fly ball pitcher on a team (A's) with the biggest outfield & foul ball territory in baseball.

[USAFChief]

Spot on. Geez Chief, you're already on your game, at what? 5:28 AM?

you know what they say..."Early to bed, early to rise, makes a man..."...well darn, I'm oh-for-three. Again.

[laloesch]

 

Franky, I don't give a rat's rear end what they do with Milone, Pelfrey, or any of the mid-to-back rotation and mop-up relief types. I'm happy they have a surplus of options, but we're treading water until or unless a couple guys with mid-to-front rotation and high-leverage talent emerge. And right now, the viable candidates to fill those roles are laboring in Chattanooga.

 

Mr. Ryan, make the phone calls please. Tell your fellow GM's you have an over-supply of pitching and need to cull the herd. But sit tight unless some GM gets desperate or temporarily stupid and offers a nice overpay for ANY of these players. But don't get snookered into taking a Sam Fuld type for Milone, OK?

 

"Tell your fellow GM's you have an over-supply of pitching and need to cull the herd."

 

Haha.  That's about right and it's about to get a whole lot more crowded when Santana returns.  If the Twins sit on their hands and do nothing SOMEONE has to go to the pen or AAA in addition to Milone in order to make room for Ervin.  

 

At this point it's a wild guess but my vote is Pelfrey.  The guy is downright wild at times, but has been decent this year.  Time to sell and RUN!  We won't get this opportunity again, sell while you still have a chance at getting something for him.  

 

Hang onto Milone as insurance in case one of the before mentioned guys falters or Santana needs extended spring training time to shake off the rust.  Then the Twins can decide what to do with him at that point as well.     

 

 

[Boom Boom]

It's good that he's pitching well, and I do believe Milone is currently one of the best five starters on the 25-man, but...

 

What is it they say about Meyer? All the stuff in the world will put up impressive numbers at AAA, but major league hitters will feast on him because he doesn't have control. I think the inverse might be true for Milone. He's got the control to dominate at AAA, but he doesn't have the stuff to parlay that domination to the majors.

 

I remember Kevin Slowey had eye-popping AAA numbers as well...

[spinowner]

 

Hang onto Milone as insurance in case one of the before mentioned guys falters or Santana needs extended spring training time to shake off the rust.  Then the Twins can decide what to do with him at that point as well.     

A minor point, but it's my understanding Santana is allowed to pitch in the minors (without pay) during his suspension, which would allow him to be game-ready the day he is elegible to return. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Platoon]

Spot on.   Geez Chief, you're already on your game, at what?  5:28 AM?

Us old guys get up early, and ready to go!

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I remember Kevin Slowey had eye-popping AAA numbers as well...

Milone himself had fairly eye-popping numbers in AAA four years ago.  If he can parlay that into 100 ERA+ seasons again like he had in Oakland, he probably should be in our top 5.