What to do with Arcia?

[Linus]

First of all, I'm very pleased with the way the Twins handled his injury situation.  No screwing around - you are on the DL.  Ossie maintained that it would only be a few days and here we are, many days later and he still hasn't swung a bat yet.

 

As each week passes, my skepticism grows.  He hasn't improved much since his original call up either at the plate or in the field.  His baseball IQ doesn't seem high which may be related to his relative lack of progress.  Of course, we all love the power potential but, at this point, that's about it.  Obviously the potential is there but he needs a lot of work and, right now, I think Rosario gives the Twins more production all the way around. 

 

When he comes off the DL, I really hope the Twins send him out for the maximum rehab stint in Rochester with the message that he will be earning his way back to the big leagues.  He has proven to hit AAA pitching before, but the rest of his game could easily use some AAA work.

 

I'm fearful that he is on a path to becoming a DH who teases with his power potential but never figures it out or figures it out after the Twins move on from him (David Ortiz, anyone).

 

What would you do when Arcia comes off the DL?

[twinsnorth49]

If they send him down he'll do the same thing as last time, mash the crap out of the pitching and OPS in the 1100-1200 range, prompting another call up inside a couple of weeks. He's never going to be a major league outfielder and he's not going to learn plate discipline at AAA, he doesn't need it there. Stick him at DH and hope he starts to figure it out at some point, he's still ridiculously young. That means sending Vargas down.

 

The bigger issue remains having three players who all profile as full time DH's. A good problem to have provided they're all hitting, not such a good one if they aren't.

[spinowner]

He's still a young man by baseball standards (just turned 24) so no way do I give up on him. Maybe some more time in AAA, I don't know. What I do know is that I envision a 3-4-5 batting order of Sano, Vargas and Arcia and think that there could be 120 home runs a year there. In fact, with those three it makes me wonder, what is the longest total distance of back-to-back home runs in MLB history? Sano and Vargas both have the ability to clear the third deck in left at Target Field and Arcia and Vargas both have the ability to hit the B ramp in right.

[Brock Beauchamp]

At some point, one or two of Vargas, Arcia, and Pinto are going to have to be traded. I hope they all succeed and the Twins can get some value in return for them.

[Linus]

 

If they send him down he'll do the same thing as last time, mash the crap out of the pitching and OPS in the 1100-1200 range, prompting another call up inside a couple of weeks. He's never going to be a major league outfielder and he's not going to learn plate discipline at AAA, he doesn't need it there. Stick him at DH and hope he starts to figure it out at some point, he's still ridiculously young. That means sending Vargas down.

The bigger issue remains having three players who all profile as full time DH's. A good problem to have provided they're all hitting, not such a good one if they aren't.

I think we are so stat based that hitting becomes the only criteria in player evaluation.  Yes, he's hit AAA pitching before........and nothing else.  Of course, I don't know anything about his off field work habits or attitude but I just wonder if a wake up call is in order, for his own long term good.

[Willihammer]

 

At some point, one or two of Vargas, Arcia, and Pinto are going to have to be traded. I hope they all succeed and the Twins can get some value in return for them.

Agree but I hope the Twins wait until the replacements are banging down the door of AAA. None of Rosario, Sano, buxton, or ABW3 has done that. And besides, Vargas and Arcia are still kind of in no man's land where they could breakout and their value would explode. Right now I don't think either would be worth much.

 

And besides that, Mauer is about on schedule to come up lame with a back / knee / concussion injury that will DL him for 8 weeks and make the whole thing moot for a while.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Oh, definitely. The earliest I see a trade is this offseason, probably later. It all depends on individual performances.

[uberfan]

Unfortunately you can only have one DH in the lineup at a time.I noticed on MLB network over the weekend when they talked about the Twins recent success and mentioned we've got a couple of really great prospects who aren't even up yet one guy immediately said he saw Sano as a trade chip. I have to agree they may need to trade one of these guys (Arcia, Vargas Sano). It's sad to me that none of these great hitters, or potential great hitters, profile as complete players. None of them can field well. Frustrating.

[PogueBear]

WHAT IS THIS THREAD?! It's ridiculous.

 

Oswaldo Arcia hit 20 bombs in 103 games last season AS A 23 YEAR OLD!! If given a full season's ~600 plate appearances, he could have hit ~29 HRs AS A 23 YEAR OLD!!!!

 

Were it not for super prospects Miguel Sano and Byron Buxton siphoning the vast majority of the Twins' prospects' media attention, everyTwins fan would know Oswaldo Arcia's name... He is a really GOOD talent and needs to be given some patience as he develops.

 

He also has some SWAG, which is a good thing. (see Torii Hunter)

[DaveW]

IF and its a BIG IF, 3 of Buxton, Rosario, Hicks and Arcia prove they deserve every day at bats in the lineup, then the solution should be simple: Trade Hunter.

 

 

[Blackjack]

 

IF and its a BIG IF, 3 of Buxton, Rosario, Hicks and Arcia prove they deserve every day at bats in the lineup, then the solution should be simple: Trade Hunter.

 

I'm just afraid that they'll sign Hunter to another year!!!

[drivlikejehu]

 

WHAT IS THIS THREAD?! It's ridiculous.

Oswaldo Arcia hit 20 bombs in 103 games last season AS A 23 YEAR OLD!! If given a full season's ~600 plate appearances, he could have hit ~29 HRs AS A 23 YEAR OLD!!!!

Were it not for super prospects Miguel Sano and Byron Buxton siphoning the vast majority of the Twins' prospects' media attention, everyTwins fan would know Oswaldo Arcia's name... He is a really GOOD talent and needs to be given some patience as he develops.

He also has some SWAG, which is a good thing. (see Torii Hunter)

 

I agree, demoting Arcia at this point is a beyond absurd notion. It's so ludicrous that I'm not even worried the Twins will do it.

[Mike Sixel]

Put him in RF, and continue to have him in the majors. This should be about getting him to where he needs to be this year, or gathering evidence that this is what he appears to be......

[beckmt]

Too early, this will work itself out over the next few weeks.  earliest trades would be done is this winter.

[spinowner]

 

Put him in RF....

Most baseball people say that on a major league team your player with the poorest defensive skills (other than the DH) belongs in left. Even though left field is larger than right in Target Field Hunter and Hicks both have better arms. A year from now I hope to have Buxton in center, Hicks in right and Arcia in left with Rosario as the fourth OF and backup 2B.

[Steve Lein]

 

At some point, one or two of Vargas, Arcia, and Pinto are going to have to be traded. I hope they all succeed and the Twins can get some value in return for them.

 

Yup. I've advocated this idea since Arcia made it to the majors. I saw plenty of him in the minor leagues, and he never passed the outfielder eye-test. Love the power potential and I think there's good potential for a decent batting average in there too, but there's too many DH's, and you'll eventually need to maximize that roster surplus with a trade or you're doing the team, and those players, a disservice.

 

Plus, Arcia just can't stay healthy.

 

 

[Linus]

 

WHAT IS THIS THREAD?! It's ridiculous.

Oswaldo Arcia hit 20 bombs in 103 games last season AS A 23 YEAR OLD!! If given a full season's ~600 plate appearances, he could have hit ~29 HRs AS A 23 YEAR OLD!!!!

Were it not for super prospects Miguel Sano and Byron Buxton siphoning the vast majority of the Twins' prospects' media attention, everyTwins fan would know Oswaldo Arcia's name... He is a really GOOD talent and needs to be given some patience as he develops.

He also has some SWAG, which is a good thing. (see Torii Hunter)

Yep, and 250 strikeouts and 18 errors in the outfield.  Like I said, we all like the power now what about the rest of it?

[twinsnorth49]

 

I think we are so stat based that hitting becomes the only criteria in player evaluation.  Yes, he's hit AAA pitching before........and nothing else.  Of course, I don't know anything about his off field work habits or attitude but I just wonder if a wake up call is in order, for his own long term good.

I think sending him down to rake AAA pitching again makes him even lazier, what's to be gained? I don't believe there is anything left for Arcia down there that is going to help his game in the big leagues, imo it happens with the Twins or it just doesn't but it's far too early to pull up stakes.

[USAFChief]

He'll go back to LF and Rosario will go back to AAA. This isn't complicated.

[Mike Sixel]

Alex Gordon disagrees that your worst OF should be in LF........baseball people believe a lot of stuff that might not be true......

[gunnarthor]

Arcia will be fine.  He needs reps but he's a great bat to have and he'll hit enough to overcome his defensive liabilities.  Eventually, he might become a fulltime DH but for now he's the starting LFer.  He might need a week of rehab in AAA but after that, he'll be starting again and Rosario will back in AAA.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Rosario back to AAA. But, I think you call up Hicks to play him, and Robinson has been great with the glove (I think) so he needs to be out there too.

 

My scenario would be Arcia and Hunter platooning in RF with Hunter DH-ing vs righties on the other days.

[Jham]

 

I'm just afraid that they'll sign Hunter to another year!!!

 

Can we get past these blanket statements.  Hunter is one of our best players, and very well could be again next year, a year we're expected to compete, unless you want to push the timetable back yet again.  No one is or should be off limits on a team that has lost 90 games in 4 straight years.  

There is a distinct possibility that extending Hunter (or any other FA for that matter) and trading Rosario or Hicks or Arcia or whoever will provide more value than trading Hunter and holding on to our youths, some of which are bound to fizzle out and return nothing.  Think moving Denard Span to make room for Aaron Hicks vs. moving Hicks while he had value and holding on to Span.  It's all about returning value in the short and long term.

 

[puckstopper1]

 

Too early, this will work itself out over the next few weeks.  earliest trades would be done is this winter.

 

Agreed.  However it is fun to speculate, :-).  

 

Sano is probably not ready yet as evidence to his start in AA, and at this point I would not want to rush him. The Twins need to keep giving Vargas, Arcia and maybe now Hicks as many big league at bats over the next several weeks as they can.  At this point it probably makes sense to send Rosario back down to allow this to happen.  He is just an injury away from more big league time this season.  

[PogueBear]

 

Yep, and 250 strikeouts and 18 errors in the outfield.  Like I said, we all like the power now what about the rest of it?

 

Unfortunately flawless, 5-tool prospects do not grow on trees.   Yes, Arcia strikes out a lot.  Power hitters typically do.  Yes, he commits some gaffes in the field.  That's why he's in the "corner..."  (Get it?  Bad joke.)

 

"Yes, he's hit AAA pitching before........and nothing else."

 

That is obnoxiously false.  Arcia had an MLB OPS+ of 100 or better in both 2013 and 2014.   He is already an above average MLB hitter.  

 

Why do we focus on offensive statistics so much for position players?  Because producing runs is 90% of their job.  The vast majority of the team's goal of preventing runs falls to the pitcher.   A left fielder averages a mere 1.8 putouts (6.67%) per game. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

WHAT IS THIS THREAD?! It's ridiculous.

Oswaldo Arcia hit 20 bombs in 103 games last season AS A 23 YEAR OLD!! If given a full season's ~600 plate appearances, he could have hit ~29 HRs AS A 23 YEAR OLD!!!!

And Dayan Viciedo hit 25 HR (on a 28 HR per 600 PA pace) at the same age in 2012.  Neither were even league-average ballplayers overall.

 

I wouldn't demote Arcia yet either, but I'd strongly consider it if Hicks does well and I am ready to call up Buxton.  And that could happen by the time Arcia is fully healthy again.

[laloesch]

 

He's still a young man by baseball standards (just turned 24) so no way do I give up on him. Maybe some more time in AAA, I don't know. What I do know is that I envision a 3-4-5 batting order of Sano, Vargas and Arcia and think that there could be 120 home runs a year there. In fact, with those three it makes me wonder, what is the longest total distance of back-to-back home runs in MLB history? Sano and Vargas both have the ability to clear the third deck in left at Target Field and Arcia and Vargas both have the ability to hit the B ramp in right.

 

"120 home runs a year" for those three?  So 40 each? Wow....that is shooting high high.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Arcia had an MLB OPS+ of 100 or better in both 2013 and 2014.   He is already an above average MLB hitter.  

He did post those OPS+ figures, but accompanied by some of the worst peripherals in all of MLB.  I don't know that anyone has had sustained success even at that modest level with K rates above 30% and BB rates under 8%.

[GMinTraining]

Buxton is Promising But Don't Forget About ...................

 

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/video/8904436-byron-buxtons-promising-but-dont-forget-adam-brett-walker/

 

Just watched replay of yesterdays Lookouts game on MiLBTV.     Did anybody see Walker beat out a 2 hopper to the 3rd baseman yesterday or score from first base on a double down the line?    He is much faster than I ever thought. 

 

That might be the answer to your question for 2016.

[Danchat]

Giving up on Arcia would be like giving up on David Ortiz or Carlos Gomez. Give him more time and he will mature and start hitting more consistently. He's not going to be a good defender, but his bat is going to be borderline elite eventually. Let's not trade him and have another team unearth his true potential.