What to do with Arcia?

[terencemann]

 

I'm pretty sure Rosario will be going down to AAA when Arcia comes back. He needs more time to play CF in AAA and Hicks isn't there to block him anymore.

The situation in CF is just pretty awful anyway you look at it. If Hunter continues to hit and Arcia comes around, at least they're getting something on the offensive side of the baseball from the outfield.

[dxpavelka]

Help me out here.  In his big league career he's hit one home run every 24 at bats.  Dozier has hit one every 36 at bats.  HIs career BA is basically the same as Dozier. His career OPS is 20 points higher than Dozier.  His BA this season is 20 points higher than Dozier.  And we gave Dozier a 4 year extension, are promoting him as an All-Star and wondering what to do with Arcia?  How about we just let him hit the damn baseball?

[Linus]

 

Help me out here.  In his big league career he's hit one home run every 24 at bats.  Dozier has hit one every 36 at bats.  HIs career BA is basically the same as Dozier. His career OPS is 20 points higher than Dozier.  His BA this season is 20 points higher than Dozier.  And we gave Dozier a 4 year extension, are promoting him as an All-Star and wondering what to do with Arcia?  How about we just let him hit the damn baseball?

But this is where the comparison ends.  Dozier is a very good fielder, excellent runner and displays a high baseball IQ along with some leadership.  The whole point of the thread when I started it was that Arcia is extremely one dimensional and showing no indication that he understands that or is willing to do what it takes to become a well rounded ballplayer.

[jimmer]

 

But this is where the comparison ends.  Dozier is a very good fielder, excellent runner and displays a high baseball IQ along with some leadership.  The whole point of the thread when I started it was that Arcia is extremely one dimensional and showing no indication that he understands that or is willing to do what it takes to become a well rounded ballplayer.

comparing offensive performances of middle IFs to corner OFs is kind of odd.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Help me out here.  In his big league career he's hit one home run every 24 at bats.  Dozier has hit one every 36 at bats.  HIs career BA is basically the same as Dozier. His career OPS is 20 points higher than Dozier.  His BA this season is 20 points higher than Dozier.  And we gave Dozier a 4 year extension, are promoting him as an All-Star and wondering what to do with Arcia?  How about we just let him hit the damn baseball?

If Arcia was a good defensive 2B, with plus base running value, this thread would not exist.  Heck, if he was even an average defensive OF, this thread may not exist.

 

And even then, Dozier didn't get his contract or accolades due to his 2012 performance (which is included in your career stat comparisons).  His OPS has been notably higher than Arcia's since May 2013.  And he's been healthier.

[whydidnt]

I agree that comparing offensive output of 2B and Corner OF's isn't the  way to judge overall talent, but consider this -- when Dozier was Arcia's current age he hadn't even reached the majors yet. I think it's easy to look at Arcia's body of work and get frustrated since he's now in his 3rd season, but he was brought up very young. At his age, you have to give him time to learn on the job. Arica's output through age 24 is infinite compared to Dozier's. 

 

[jimmer]

 

I agree that comparing offensive output of 2B and Corner OF's isn't the  way to judge overall talent, but consider this -- when Dozier was Arcia's current age he hadn't even reached the majors yet. I think it's easy to look at Arcia's body of work and get frustrated since he's now in his 3rd season, but he was brought up very young. At his age, you have to give him time to learn on the job. Arica's output through age 24 is infinite compared to Dozier's. 

Dozier went to college.

[whydidnt]

I should have added to my post-- I don't think the Twins recent hot streak is indicative of how they will finish this year. I still don't think they are going to finish with more than 75 wins. That slant's my view of what to do with Arcia - they need to let him play and hopefully get better. 

 

I had the pleasure of witnessing Rosario's 1st pitch HR in person, (And it was fantastic!!) but since then he has looked pretty over matched. I think he needs to be sent down for seasoning once Arcia is ready to return.

[whydidnt]

 

Dozier went to college.

I know, but that doesn't really change their debut ages. Guys who debut at age 25 are much less likely to become star players than guys that debut at 22. I'm not complaining about Dozier and like him, I just think that it's good to keep Arcia's age in perspective before trashing his results. 

[jimmer]

 

I know, but that doesn't really change their debut ages. Guys who debut at age 25 are much less likely to become star players than guys that debut at 22. I'm not complaining about Dozier and like him, I just think that it's good to keep Arcia's age in perspective before trashing his results. 

Dozier going to college EXPLAINS their debut age differences.

 

Arcia signed in 2007 and made his debut in 2013.  Dozier signed two years later (in 2009) and debuted in 2012 (one year earlier).  When you sign someone that young, they are very likely to come up quicker than most guys who went to college even if the college guys are somewhat fast tracked.

 

But yeah, patience with Arcia's bat is a good idea.  His defense though, that's an issue that isn't likely going away.

[whydidnt]

 

Dozier going to college EXPLAINS their debut age differences.

 

Arcia signed in 2007 and made his debut in 2013.  Dozier signed two years later (in 2009) and debuted in 2012 (one year earlier).  When you sign someone that young, they are very likely to come up quicker than most guys who went to college even if the college guys are somewhat fast tracked.

 

But yeah, patience with Arcia's bat is a good idea.  His defense though, that's an issue that isn't likely going away.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you, but the reasons for the later debut are not really relevant to the discussion on the players long term potential. There is a reason Dozier went to college and debuted in the majors at  an older age. Doesn't make him a bad player today, just means his upside is likely to be limited (if you compare to players with a similar background). 

[dxpavelka]

 

But this is where the comparison ends.  Dozier is a very good fielder, excellent runner and displays a high baseball IQ along with some leadership.  The whole point of the thread when I started it was that Arcia is extremely one dimensional and showing no indication that he understands that or is willing to do what it takes to become a well rounded ballplaye

Your last sentence is where coaching is supposed to come into play. 

[spinowner]

 

Dozier going to college EXPLAINS their debut age differences.

 

You make the majors when you're ready. Going to college may slow one's development a little but even those who hit the minors straight out of high school rarely debut at age 21 as Arcia did. There's no way to know for sure but I doubt that going to college made a big difference in Dozier's debut age.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Help me out here. In his big league career he's hit one home run every 24 at bats. Dozier has hit one every 36 at bats. HIs career BA is basically the same as Dozier. His career OPS is 20 points higher than Dozier. His BA this season is 20 points higher than Dozier. And we gave Dozier a 4 year extension, are promoting him as an All-Star and wondering what to do with Arcia? How about we just let him hit the damn baseball?

I notice you didn't bring up OBP, defense, or baserunning. I like Arcia but he has some massive flaws in his game that limit his overall growth as a baseball player.

[dxpavelka]

 

I notice you didn't bring up OBP, defense, or baserunning. I like Arcia but he has some massive flaws in his game that limit his overall growth as a baseball player.

Again.  Coaching.

[Linus]

He is getting plenty of coaching.  What a ballplayer does with his career is on him.  When ballplayers and fans start blaming the coaching, that's when you start wondering about their accountability.

[HitInAPinch]

 

He is getting plenty of coaching.  What a ballplayer does with his career is on him.  When ballplayers and fans start blaming the coaching, that's when you start wondering about their accountability.

Have you looked at Arcia's stats this year?  I was pretty stunned:

 

.276 BA, a paltry 2 HR's.  Seems like he's being coached up, but he's misunderstanding the message?

But it is still a little early in the season and, like I've always say, baseball player from south of the border tend to heat up when the weather get hotter.  

[Linus]

 

Have you looked at Arcia's stats this year?  I was pretty stunned:

 

.276 BA, a paltry 2 HR's.  Seems like he's being coached up, but he's misunderstanding the message?

But it is still a little early in the season and, like I've always say, baseball player from south of the border tend to heat up when the weather get hotter.

More likely, the book is out on him.  Which is, you don't have to give him anything to hit because he will get himself out trying to hit the ball 500 feet.  Its all about making adjustments, which he hasn't shown an ability (or willingness) to do in any aspect of his game.

 

I hope he has an amazing career with the Twins but something is going to have to change for that to happen.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Again.  Coaching.

Above average defense, some of the best baserunning in the game, and the ability to draw a walk - all strengths of Brian Dozier - are not a product of coaching. Coaching can help those things somewhat, sure. How much? Probably not a lot.

 

If it was that easy, every MLB player would play great defense, get on base over 35% of the time, and always know when to take the extra base.

[Monkeypaws]

I wish I had a nickel for every guy that hit better than he fielded, especially corner outfielders....

[Jham]

 

More likely, the book is out on him.  Which is, you don't have to give him anything to hit because he will get himself out trying to hit the ball 500 feet.  Its all about making adjustments, which he hasn't shown an ability (or willingness) to do in any aspect of his game.

 

I hope he has an amazing career with the Twins but something is going to have to change for that to happen.

I disagree somewhat on his ability/willingness to adjust or receive coaching.  Just before his injury, I saw him adjusting his two-strike approach.  I saw him working the ball up the middle and to left.  I saw him showing as much enthusiasm getting a single to left as he did cranking a double. I saw him showing visible frustration with himself simply for flinching at a pitch up in the zone (the pitch Bruno has been working with him to take).  The guy tries.  He works.  He cares.  He wants to win.  He'll probably never be a gold glove outfielder. He is athletic enough to be above average.  His routes and fundamentals need some work.  I actually expect him to get there, although I'm not as convinced as I once was.  I still love Ossie's upside, his fire, and his potential leadership.