The Positive of Reducing Payroll

I can really see Martin come up & contribute and Lee could follow later but the others not so sure.

Hopefully Martin's elbow heals sufficiently by Spring Training that he is put in centerfield full time. The Twins have about 6 guys they can play at second, but nobody definitely for center, at least big league ready.

Hoping guys that were injured most of last year or just mostly bad turn it around on the mound. Could save about 10-12 mil on the relief pitcher market that way. Obviously more than 1 pitcher. I would like to see Funderburk and Alcala stay on the major league roster all year pitching well. One of Balazovic, Richardson, Winder, Hendrick or Henriquez as a real bullpen option would help alot. Maybe Moran will learn to throw strikes.

Larnach could probably help the Twins more than someone they could get in a trade for him. May not sound logical, but many times he just seems to be on the cusp of making it.

This lemonade tastes a bit off. 

Trying to fill the holes in the roster with prospects is a recipe for disaster. Just look how many rookies have come up for teams and once the league took time to figure out how to get them out they were back in AAA before you knew it to never be seen again.

I don't have a problem with trying a rookie or 2 but expecting them to fill the roles and stay competitive is not realistic. If the Twins "need" to cut payroll they just need to get lucky with a couple of dumpster signings and hope they can stay competitive until the rookies have more experience.

It's nice trying to put a positive spin on a crappy situation.  We are a mid-market team currently spending like a mid-market team.  Dropping payroll so we can spend like a lower market team will not improve us.  

Instead of signing to supplement out roster we are talking trades and prospects.  It only takes a few trades to deplete what we once thought was a strong farm system.  It may work for a year or two, but I don't see it ending with a long run of success.  

Here's hoping we don't have another good year followed by 4 down years replenishment our farm system.

21 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

Can’t imagine anyone trading for Vazquez at $10M per year unless they have a frontline injury. He’s 4th best defensive catcher in league so we probably want to hang on to him.

Very true. I can't imagine that he much trade value, considering his age and salary. 

Moving Polanco and Vasquez would save $20MM - both players, albeit accomplished, are essentially backups going forward.  Take the savings and reinvest as much as possible into pitching, preferably for a starter as close as we can get to Gray’s performance. Don’t forget, we are already saving $11MM by getting rid of Gallo - so they drop to $140MM is already there essentially. Let the kids play.  

31 minutes ago, darin617 said:

Trying to fill the holes in the roster with prospects is a recipe for disaster. Just look how many rookies have come up for teams and once the league took time to figure out how to get them out they were back in AAA before you knew it to never be seen again.

I don't have a problem with trying a rookie or 2 but expecting them to fill the roles and stay competitive is not realistic. If the Twins "need" to cut payroll they just need to get lucky with a couple of dumpster signings and hope they can stay competitive until the rookies have more experience.

Trying to fill the holes in the roster with retread vets is a recipe for disaster.  Just look how many retreads have signed with teams, and once it was clear they were done, they were outrighted never to be seen again.

I don’t have a problem with trying a retread or 2, but expecting them to fill the roles and stay competitive is not realistic.  If the Twins “need” to cut payroll they just need to get lucky with a couple of rookies and hope they can stay competitive.

In all seriousness, is your argument really that the Twins should sign the 2024 equivalent of Joey Gallo, Dylan Bundy, Chris Archer, and Joe Smith, and hope it works out better this time?

It must be thanksgiving time - we are grateful that we are cutting payroll so that Austin Martin who has a three year slash line of 256/388/361 can be the CF solution.   

No more whiny Sonny Gray - maybe we can bring up David Festa early and he will become a shining star.

I am sorry, I know it is hard to write lots of copy in November, but I am not buying the positives to cutting payroll. 

Yea the whole notion is kind of silly. If you want to play young players then play them. You don’t need a payroll cut to justify it. 

As per the OP, NOT advocating cost cutting is a good thing, BUT, who might benefit as a result?

Yes to both Martin and Severino, but I think Martin in closer to being ready. Martin began to hit and perform at the end of 2022 and had a real breakthrough in the AFL. Just under 4 months of playing time in 2023 is not what Martin needed, but he did great. Low K rate, high BB rate, a little more power than previously shown, has me feeling confident he can/will hit at the ML level, though how good early is to be seen. Severino is sort of the opposite. He's always going to K a lot, but he also takes enough BB to have a .350 OB% so far. And he makes enough bat to ball contact, with his power, to actually HIT, which is something Sabato can't do, for instance. Both only 24yo.

Camargo I have a good feeling about. Probably never hit better than .240 ish, and and OB in the .290-.310 area, but good defense and good power. Also, I believe, only 24yo.

But Miranda, despite not being a rookie, is still  a young player looking for opportunity and it will probably present itself.

I'm still on the Helman bandwagon.  He's a 7 position player with speed and power, a RH version of Castro. He's a late developer who checks off every box but one: opportunity. 

Kerisey is a little older,  LH version of Martin. I'm betting he's not ready until he gets a couple more months in at AAA, but he's interesting as a 4th OF, quasi platoon piece.

If Farmer is gone, does that open up a spot for Prato to join in competition for a role along with Helman? Again, can hit, get OB, run some, has some pop, and can play everywhere.

BTW, how come nobody mentioned Lee? Top prospect or not, a lower payroll means sooner opportunity. 

I realize Vazquez had an off year offensively but do we really want to trade him away and take the risk of having Camargo be our main catcher should something happen to Jeffers? I don't think that's a trade that is even remotely being considered. Biggest cost cutting candidate has got to be Polanco due to the depth at 2B in the organization. I'm all for giving Martin a chance in CF. One of the last places they need to be spending more money at is CF. Buxton's $15M is enough. If he can't play CF then roll with the best cheapest option and that would be Martin or some other rookie. 

Nick Gordon in CF

While  I understand the premise of the article and agree with some of the points, there are no positives to reducing payroll. There could be opportunities for some players but those come at the expense of flexibility in adding proven players. I hope payroll lands closer to $140 than $125 so Falvey can be at least a little creative.

I appreciate the positive point of view but there is nothing positive about reducing payroll.  All of these options exist without reducing payroll.  It's not as if they could not utilize these options and also find a way to improve the team while remaining at the same level of payroll.

16 hours ago, Oldgoat_MN said:

Not a lot of folks chiming in on the positives of cutting payroll. 

No more Joey Gallo type signings is one big positive. 

Reducing payroll because you have too is never a great thing, but we are not in a position where we need to sell off contracts like Padres may be at.  However, if we are forced to play some of the young guys it could pan out, because in general they tend to be as effective as many vet FA end up being. One reason the players started to get annoyed when they were not getting paid because teams saw the production of a 24 year old rookie was about as good as a 33 year old vet in most cases. 

9 hours ago, ashbury said:

Flip side is that none of the outside talent brought in exactly set the world on fire in 2023. 

Maybe the lesson, with Joey Gallo exhibit A as evidence, is that the FO ought not to be trusted to spend one penny on anyone not already on the roster.  

I agree 100%. The problem with free agents is that the team is reluctant to let them go when they don't work out. Good thing about our young players is they have options so we can move them up and down pretty much at will. 

If we move Kepler and Polanco I want to see Larnach get an extended stay replacing Kepler, but in left field and Wallner in right and Severino taking Polanco's place. He can pinch hit, and back up first and second. Martin as part of the outfield rotation. 

With Lee coming up later there is no need to sign any position player this year. Just focus on adding a starter and some relief help. 

29 minutes ago, saviking said:

I agree 100%. The problem with free agents is that the team is reluctant to let them go when they don't work out. Good thing about our young players is they have options so we can move them up and down pretty much at will. 

If we move Kepler and Polanco I want to see Larnach get an extended stay replacing Kepler, but in left field and Wallner in right and Severino taking Polanco's place. He can pinch hit, and back up first and second. Martin as part of the outfield rotation. 

With Lee coming up later there is no need to sign any position player this year. Just focus on adding a starter and some relief help. 

And if Larnach plays like he has the last three year? Or Wallner is more August then September and Martin and Severino have really bad rookie starts? Then what? who are the replacements behind them?

One of the great things about the 23 season (Compared the prior seasons) was this FO realized how important having depth was. Completely disregarding that and going back to fingers crossed the young guys are the solution with literally no depth behind them is a fools game.

2 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

I appreciate the positive point of view but there is nothing positive about reducing payroll.  All of these options exist without reducing payroll.  It's not as if they could not utilize these options and also find a way to improve the team while remaining at the same level of payroll.

100% this!

31 minutes ago, saviking said:

I agree 100%. The problem with free agents is that the team is reluctant to let them go when they don't work out. Good thing about our young players is they have options so we can move them up and down pretty much at will. 

This. While it's never good to be reducing payroll, and I'm disappointed in ownership for this, we do have depth in the top of the minor leagues.

But from a position player standpoint, all the self-imposed payroll restrictions really do is prevent them from improving substantially at a position like 1B or signing a higher quality backup CF. For the most part we weren't likely going to be in on position players for this team because of the emergence of several young players that need and should play: Julien, Lewis, and Wallner. It doesn't make sense to add a veteran and send any of them back down to AAA: none have anything left to prove there, and all three showed more than enough for the team to be comfortable with them as starting players.

Where the payroll reduction hurts is for pitching. While we are in substantially better shape than we were for the rotation 2 years ago, there's a real concern that we're going to be a bit thin on starters for next season. I like Varland, but if he's in the rotation on day 1 then we don't have a lot of depth if/when any of the starters gets dinged up. Paddack did great late in coming back and looks better than he did before the injury, but he might need some time off during the season as he adjusts to pitching every 5th day again. Ryan missed some time in 2023 with the kind of injury that can hit any player. Ober was the healthiest he's ever been and they still slipped him down to AAA for a couple of weeks to try to manage his workload. You just never know with this stuff.

I feel good about the Twins from a position player side of things overall, and like the young talent they have on the MLB roster and pushing their way up from AAA. But the self-imposed payroll restrictions are going to hurt the rotation and potential for this club.