Ryan Kreidler's Arrival Should Lead to James Outman's Exit

[DJL44]

27 minutes ago, Nick Nelson said:

What stats are we talking about that would be meaningful in the sample of MLB time he's played. Do you have defensive stats from the minors? 

Kreidler made several outstanding plays in center in spring training. People throughout the org have remarked about his defensive ability. I don't think they're infallible but I also trust my eyes and ears. And yeah, the ability to roster him as versatile defense-first depth with options is what makes him preferable to someone like Outman. No one's making him out to be a viable MLB starter.

Should we trust defensive evaluations from the organization that thinks Brooks Lee is an everyday SS and Josh Bell is a first baseman?

[rv78]

4 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Are you referring to the ball in the dirt that almost every first baseman in the league except Bell could scoop?

So Bell should have gotten the error then? An errant throw is an error, regardless of who is trying to catch it. What you are implying would be the same as giving every hitter a hit even if the fielder can't scoop up the ball. 

[DJL44]

5 minutes ago, rv78 said:

So Bell should have gotten the error then? An errant throw is an error, regardless of who is trying to catch it. What you are implying would be the same as giving every hitter a hit even if the fielder can't scoop up the ball. 

I don’t care about the accounting tally. Bell should have caught that ball. Fielders are taught to throw low. A ball that bounces once is easier to field than one that goes over the first baseman’s head.

[USAFChief]

4 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Are you referring to the ball in the dirt that almost every first baseman in the league except Bell could scoop?

Blaming Bell for the poor throw is...something. 

 

[rv78]

3 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

I don’t care about the accounting tally. Bell should have caught that ball. Fielders are taught to throw low. A ball that bounces once is easier to field than one that goes over the first baseman’s head.

You are backing up your story by saying fielders are taught to throw low? Where I come from they are taught to throw at the chest. Anything above, below or off to either side of that, is off target. Balls in the dirt are just as much off target as throws over the head. (Unless the throw was intentionally throw off the turf for a 1 hop bounce to 1B.)

[USAFChief]

That we're debating Outman vs Kreidler, even for the 13th spot, says quite a bit about the roster. 

[DJL44]

22 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Blaming Bell for the poor throw is...something. 

The ball hit him in the glove. I am blaming him for booting a ball that hit his glove.

[GopherMike]

5 hours ago, Fatbat said:

Redundancy in AAAA players is frustrating for fans when the next young superstar is close to arriving. Absolutely nothing is gained by keeping outman on the 40 man. The “lets find the next Willy Castro”  experiment didn’t work in the Outman trade. It might work with Kreidler but its a super small sample size. It’s hard to put much stock in it yet.

I think we believe "the next young superster is close to arriving"

I'm not sure that's actually true.

[DJL44]

If Kreidler can hit well enough to be a backup outfielder then why isn’t he playing SS? Use him at the position where his defense will help the team the most.

[PatPfund]

Every team needs a good utility player, but do we really need three (Kreidler, Gray, Clemens)? Is Outman OK, because he hardly plays, or does he hardly play because he's (not really) OK? If you are just playing game-to-game I guess keeping Kreidler around for a bit is fine, but...

Emmanuel Rodriguez is on his final option year, and would immediately be the best defensive OF on the Twins not named Buxton along with an offensive upside better than any OF but Buxton. If not now, when? After he is out of options? If you need to play him everyday, bench/send down Wallner and his MLB leading 33 Ks (in 80 PAs) for a badly needed reset. But, yeah, cut Outman; he never should have gone north with the team.

[rv78]

29 minutes ago, PatPfund said:

Every team needs a good utility player, but do we really need three (Kreidler, Gray, Clemens)? Is Outman OK, because he hardly plays, or does he hardly play because he's (not really) OK? If you are just playing game-to-game I guess keeping Kreidler around for a bit is fine, but...

Emmanuel Rodriguez is on his final option year, and would immediately be the best defensive OF on the Twins not named Buxton along with an offensive upside better than any OF but Buxton. If not now, when? After he is out of options? If you need to play him everyday, bench/send down Wallner and his MLB leading 33 Ks (in 80 PAs) for a badly needed reset. But, yeah, cut Outman; he never should have gone north with the team.

It is completely ironic or, maybe Moronic would be the better term, that the Twins have young players in AAA that they are sure of their glove and unsure of their bat and instead of taking a chance on them to see if their bat will play at the major league level, they use a veteran that has proven his bat DOESN'T play, just for his glove. 

It seems to me that they are treading the same water now without Falvey as they did when Falvey was here. Play the veterans no matter how bad they are, hoping the fans buy into the moves they made, showing that they KNOW what they are doing. In all reality, they are only proving to the fans otherwise by running the same type of worthless veterans out onto the field over and over. Kreidler, Outman, Bell, Clemens and a handful of others brought in by Falvey aren't worth a roster spot if they are really serious about contending.

[Rosterman]

Time to cut. You traded Brock Stewart, who besides being injured will probably be a non-roster tender himself at some point. If he even makes it back in mid-May to a crowded Dodger pitching staff.

[LewFordLives]

This has to be one of the saddest headlines in the history of Twins Daily.

[Bangkok Twins Fan]

22 hours ago, Bodie said:

Where have you gone Bush and Lombardozi (sp?)?  Our nation turns its lonely eyes to you!

Best line of the week! Eat your heart out, Paul Simon!

[nclahammer]

I look at this situation two possible ways after Royce Lewis returns to the Twins next week.  If Outman stays and someone else gets DFAed or sent down, then it's pretty much business as usual for the Minnesota Twins.   If Outman is indeed "out man" and released with Tom Pohlad in charge, then I see this as a refreshing change of pace in using their roster.

[karcherd]

22 minutes ago, nclahammer said:

 If Outman is indeed "out man" and released with Tom Pohlad in charge, then I see this as a refreshing change of pace in using their roster.

I don't want Tom Pholad making roster decisions unless he is being asked to add payroll.  I want him to hire someone competent to run the baseball operations and knows how to construct a roster.  We didn't have this with Falvey and I have my doubts about Zoll but am willing to give him some time to see if he will operate better.

[Major League Ready]

On 4/18/2026 at 3:43 PM, rv78 said:

It is completely ironic or, maybe Moronic would be the better term, that the Twins have young players in AAA that they are sure of their glove and unsure of their bat and instead of taking a chance on them to see if their bat will play at the major league level, they use a veteran that has proven his bat DOESN'T play, just for his glove. 

It seems to me that they are treading the same water now without Falvey as they did when Falvey was here. Play the veterans no matter how bad they are, hoping the fans buy into the moves they made, showing that they KNOW what they are doing. In all reality, they are only proving to the fans otherwise by running the same type of worthless veterans out onto the field over and over. Kreidler, Outman, Bell, Clemens and a handful of others brought in by Falvey aren't worth a roster spot if they are really serious about contending.

What about their off-season would have you believe they are serious about winning?  Dropping the payroll again does not signify a serious attempt to win.  Even one legit high-leverage RP would have made a significant difference.  The personnel decisions were pretty good given the restrictions resulting from their decision to decrease payroll.  RPs are always an iffy investment but had they could have $13.6M on legit late inning guys instead of $3.6M on Rogers and Banda and still ben $15M under last year.   

Why would you lump a guy with an wRC+ of 135 (Bell) in with Outman and Clemens.  The consensus around here seemed to be for Lowe (91 wRC+) Bell is outperforming him significantly so why is Bell still getting flack other than we knew he is not a good defender.

Hind sight be 20/20, they should have trade Lopez and spent the $20M in the BP.  If the team failed, those guys probably would have had value at the trade deadline. 

[Bodie]

1 hour ago, Bangkok Twins Fan said:

Best line of the week! Eat your heart out, Paul Simon!

Just melodicaly rolls off the tongue...

[bean5302]

21 hours ago, Nick Nelson said:

What stats are we talking about that would be meaningful in the sample of MLB time he's played. Do you have defensive stats from the minors? 

Kreidler made several outstanding plays in center in spring training. People throughout the org have remarked about his defensive ability. I don't think they're infallible but I also trust my eyes and ears. And yeah, the ability to roster him as versatile defense-first depth with options is what makes him preferable to someone like Outman. No one's making him out to be a viable MLB starter.

Yes, I reviewed defensive stats from the minors at SS over the past 3 years in the International league. The stats available aren't comprehensive. They're pretty rudimentary. Fielding percentage and RF/9. Kreidler graded out as good. Not exceptional. In 875 innings or so as a SS with Detroit AAA over the past 3 years, Kreidler manages about a .965 fielding percentage and 4.25 RF/9. The fielding percentage is not good, the RF/9 is good, but not great.  

Even professional scouts are terrible when it comes to the eye test when it comes to outfielder speed. Reviewing Kreidler's Baseball Savant page, it shows his sprint speed has dropped from barely 60 grade (28.2 ft/sec) in 2023 which is about the bare minimum for acceptable CF coverage down to 27.4 ft/sec last year. Continuing the trend suggests Kreidler is about league average when it comes to speed. He's not going to be a good CF.

Outman can cover CF. Kreidler cannot. Neither should be on the roster.

[Fatbat]

1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

Yes, I reviewed defensive stats from the minors at SS over the past 3 years in the International league. The stats available aren't comprehensive. They're pretty rudimentary. Fielding percentage and RF/9. Kreidler graded out as good. Not exceptional. In 875 innings or so as a SS with Detroit AAA over the past 3 years, Kreidler manages about a .965 fielding percentage and 4.25 RF/9. The fielding percentage is not good, the RF/9 is good, but not great.  

Even professional scouts are terrible when it comes to the eye test when it comes to outfielder speed. Reviewing Kreidler's Baseball Savant page, it shows his sprint speed has dropped from barely 60 grade (28.2 ft/sec) in 2023 which is about the bare minimum for acceptable CF coverage down to 27.4 ft/sec last year. Continuing the trend suggests Kreidler is about league average when it comes to speed. He's not going to be a good CF.

Outman can cover CF. Kreidler cannot. Neither should be on the roster.

Its just time to bring up some young bloods. Erod is healthy and raking across the river. Why waste him there? Rotate 5 quality OF’s based on matchups, not rostering a guy cause he has 1 tool in his toolbox. Thats just dumb. Just as dumb as not getting Wallner or Larnach a 1B’s glove. 

[JADBP]

Arguing over Outman vs Kreidler vs. Lee vs. Larnach/Wallner/whoever is just a waste of energy.  The argument is when do you bring up the next outfield in AAA?

We all know it is enormously challenging to jump from AAA to MLB and we expect Emma/Jenkins/Gonzo/C-pepper to stumble when they show up.  But I would MUCH RATHER pay to watch our them than watch any of Outman/Kreidler/Lee and most especially Wallner.  

At some point Zoll has to grow up and know that he is now running the show, not Falvey.  He needs to put his big boy pants on and make his own decisions, not repeat the same crap that Falvey did.  He needs to learn that some players just are not gonna succeed in MLB, no matter where they were drafted.  He has to let them go (Outman, Wallner, etc) or send them down for retraining (Lee, maybe Lewis?).  He has to be able to let go.  Every once in a while he will lose a Brent Rooker or Spencer Steer, but that should not stop him from moving on from some players.  If Rooker has a good career elsewhere, so be it.  You tried.  I'm OK giving Lewis and Lee types more time (and maybe some specialized AAA time), but it the Wallner, Outman, Kreidler, group needs to be gone.  They are doing more harm than good to the current and the future team.

[rv78]

On 4/19/2026 at 8:56 AM, Major League Ready said:

What about their off-season would have you believe they are serious about winning?  Dropping the payroll again does not signify a serious attempt to win.  Even one legit high-leverage RP would have made a significant difference.  The personnel decisions were pretty good given the restrictions resulting from their decision to decrease payroll.  RPs are always an iffy investment but had they could have $13.6M on legit late inning guys instead of $3.6M on Rogers and Banda and still ben $15M under last year.   

Why would you lump a guy with an wRC+ of 135 (Bell) in with Outman and Clemens.  The consensus around here seemed to be for Lowe (91 wRC+) Bell is outperforming him significantly so why is Bell still getting flack other than we knew he is not a good defender.

Hind sight be 20/20, they should have trade Lopez and spent the $20M in the BP.  If the team failed, those guys probably would have had value at the trade deadline. 

There is nothing about their off-season has me to believe they are serious about contending. The "Contending" statement came from them, not me. I never took that statement serious at the time nor do I now. It's just BS to try to get fans to buy tickets.

As for signing Bell, what's the point? When you add guys like Kreidler, Outman, Gray, Roden, who didn't make the club out of spring training, counting on Clemens, a career .200 hitter to be a major part of your team, it's all just a joke.

As for 1 high-leverage RP making a difference that's like saying Bell is going to make enough of a difference to get them over the hump. This team hasn't went all-in since 2019, and they've done nothing but go backwards ever since. Adding the fringe players every year like they have since 2019 hasn't worked and never will.

[RpR]

On 4/19/2026 at 11:02 AM, Fatbat said:

Its just time to bring up some young bloods. Erod is healthy and raking across the river. Why waste him there? Rotate 5 quality OF’s based on matchups, not rostering a guy cause he has 1 tool in his toolbox. Thats just dumb. Just as dumb as not getting Wallner or Larnach a 1B’s glove. 

Rodriguez probably will be brought over, to watch Major League pitching increase his K rate to Wallner's or Gallo's level.

If he had Gallo's glove that would be tolerable but he has Wallner's glove.

[Cris E]

On 4/19/2026 at 11:02 AM, Fatbat said:

Its just time to bring up some young bloods. Erod is healthy and raking across the river. Why waste him there? Rotate 5 quality OF’s based on matchups, not rostering a guy cause he has 1 tool in his toolbox. Thats just dumb. Just as dumb as not getting Wallner or Larnach a 1B’s glove. 

You don't bring the kids you care about up until they have a place to play regularly. ERod sitting around for a month waiting to take Outman's 20 AB makes no sense.  If you bring him up it has to be to get 20 AB a week, where he can get in a groove, not be looking over his shoulder and sweating every out, have confidence that the team wants to see his game over time. Outman is Buxton's caddy and the guy waiting for those ABs is going to sit a lot.

ERod and Jenkins and Gonzalez should be playing at least five games a week, so to make a space for those guys you need an injury, a complete washout at the MLB level or a trade. I don't care about the Fedkos of the world, and even Rodan is older and at a point where it's produce or step back, but our 22 year olds need to keep ascending, and to do that they need regular playing time.

The front office has to have to balls to make a call on the guys that aren't earning their keep.  Martin seems to have stepped up when given his chance last year and this spring. Rodan deserves a shot next. Outman has not passed the test. The best thing to do with him is pass him through waivers, where he'll be claimed or not.

[Major League Ready]

3 hours ago, rv78 said:

There is nothing about their off-season has me to believe they are serious about contending. The "Contending" statement came from them, not me. I never took that statement serious at the time nor do I now. It's just BS to try to get fans to buy tickets.

As for signing Bell, what's the point? When you add guys like Kreidler, Outman, Gray, Roden, who didn't make the club out of spring training, counting on Clemens, a career .200 hitter to be a major part of your team, it's all just a joke.

As for 1 high-leverage RP making a difference that's like saying Bell is going to make enough of a difference to get them over the hump. This team hasn't went all-in since 2019, and they've done nothing but go backwards ever since. Adding the fringe players every year like they have since 2019 hasn't worked and never will.

No disagreement here but I was suggesting they could have gotten 2 legit guys for $13.6 which would have been an additional $10M.

[rv78]

9 hours ago, Cris E said:

You don't bring the kids you care about up until they have a place to play regularly. ERod sitting around for a month waiting to take Outman's 20 AB makes no sense.  If you bring him up it has to be to get 20 AB a week, where he can get in a groove, not be looking over his shoulder and sweating every out, have confidence that the team wants to see his game over time. Outman is Buxton's caddy and the guy waiting for those ABs is going to sit a lot.

ERod and Jenkins and Gonzalez should be playing at least five games a week, so to make a space for those guys you need an injury, a complete washout at the MLB level or a trade. I don't care about the Fedkos of the world, and even Rodan is older and at a point where it's produce or step back, but our 22 year olds need to keep ascending, and to do that they need regular playing time.

The front office has to have to balls to make a call on the guys that aren't earning their keep.  Martin seems to have stepped up when given his chance last year and this spring. Rodan deserves a shot next. Outman has not passed the test. The best thing to do with him is pass him through waivers, where he'll be claimed or not.

If Buck and Martin have their 2 outfield spots locked up. Which it appears to be, as of now. That leaves RF or Wallner to be the odd man out. Almost everyone here complains about Wallner being a terrible outfielder. His bat isn't anything great either. What would be the harm in giving ERod the RF spot full-time to see if he is better than Wallner. Wallner could then take Outmans spot on the roster. It's too bad they haven't tried using Wallner at 1B. Unless his glove would be horrendous there, I can't see him being much of a drop off replacing Clemens at 1B with the bat. That is something they should have done in spring training to see if he can play there. As for Outman being Buxtons backup, I wouldn't think Martin or ERod would be a disaster there if they had to play CF once a week. If Buck gets hurt, well this team is totally screwed and it won't make a rats turd of a difference who plays there then. If you are telling me that we don't have anyone in AAA that can give us better at-bats than Outman, then this organization is worse off than we think.

[Fatbat]

On 4/20/2026 at 12:03 AM, JADBP said:

Arguing over Outman vs Kreidler vs. Lee vs. Larnach/Wallner/whoever is just a waste of energy.  The argument is when do you bring up the next outfield in AAA?

We all know it is enormously challenging to jump from AAA to MLB and we expect Emma/Jenkins/Gonzo/C-pepper to stumble when they show up.  But I would MUCH RATHER pay to watch our them than watch any of Outman/Kreidler/Lee and most especially Wallner.  

At some point Zoll has to grow up and know that he is now running the show, not Falvey.  He needs to put his big boy pants on and make his own decisions, not repeat the same crap that Falvey did.  He needs to learn that some players just are not gonna succeed in MLB, no matter where they were drafted.  He has to let them go (Outman, Wallner, etc) or send them down for retraining (Lee, maybe Lewis?).  He has to be able to let go.  Every once in a while he will lose a Brent Rooker or Spencer Steer, but that should not stop him from moving on from some players.  If Rooker has a good career elsewhere, so be it.  You tried.  I'm OK giving Lewis and Lee types more time (and maybe some specialized AAA time), but it the Wallner, Outman, Kreidler, group needs to be gone.  They are doing more harm than good to the current and the future team.

Lewis is in AAA. Rehabbing and smashing HRs. Leaving him there would seem like a waste of his time. 

[Riverbrian]

9 hours ago, Cris E said:

You don't bring the kids you care about up until they have a place to play regularly. ERod sitting around for a month waiting to take Outman's 20 AB makes no sense.  If you bring him up it has to be to get 20 AB a week, where he can get in a groove, not be looking over his shoulder and sweating every out, have confidence that the team wants to see his game over time. Outman is Buxton's caddy and the guy waiting for those ABs is going to sit a lot.

ERod and Jenkins and Gonzalez should be playing at least five games a week, so to make a space for those guys you need an injury, a complete washout at the MLB level or a trade. I don't care about the Fedkos of the world, and even Rodan is older and at a point where it's produce or step back, but our 22 year olds need to keep ascending, and to do that they need regular playing time.

The front office has to have to balls to make a call on the guys that aren't earning their keep.  Martin seems to have stepped up when given his chance last year and this spring. Rodan deserves a shot next. Outman has not passed the test. The best thing to do with him is pass him through waivers, where he'll be claimed or not.

If they swapped Erod for Outman. My question would be.

What players prevent Erod from 5 games a week?

Larnach has had 47 very professional PA's so far this year. He looks great but 90% of Twinsdaily would throw him off a cliff and still would. 

Wallner has had 81 mostly unprofessional AB's thus far. 42% K rate. BTW that's 47% against RH and 36% against LH. 50% of Twinsdaily wanted him tossed in the off season. 

Martins looks great with a .484 OBP but we still don't know if he is a short side platoon. We've just seen an incredible stretch of left handers. Maybe now we will find out. 

If Bell can play 1B... The DH position is available for Larnach and Wallner. That puts Bell, Caratini and Clemens as additional players who can yield playing time so Erod can get his 5 a week. 

The Outman role is a waste. Very few could entertain the thought of Gray pushing Brooks at SS but its April and Gray is replacing Lewis at 3B due to injury. 

This team has one true superstar in Buxton. This team doesn't need late inning defensive replacements. This team doesn't need late game pinch runners This team doesn't need short side platoon specialists. 

This team needs talent. 

 

[Major League Ready]

25 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

If they swapped Erod for Outman. My question would be.

What players prevent Erod from 5 games a week?

Larnach has had 47 very professional PA's so far this year. He looks great but 90% of Twinsdaily would throw him off a cliff and still would. 

Wallner has had 81 mostly unprofessional AB's thus far. 42% K rate. BTW that's 47% against RH and 36% against LH. 50% of Twinsdaily wanted him tossed in the off season. 

Martins looks great with a .484 OBP but we still don't know if he is a short side platoon. We've just seen an incredible stretch of left handers. Maybe now we will find out. 

If Bell can play 1B... The DH position is available for Larnach and Wallner. That puts Bell, Caratini and Clemens as additional players who can yield playing time so Erod can get his 5 a week. 

The Outman role is a waste. Very few could entertain the thought of Gray pushing Brooks at SS but its April and Gray is replacing Lewis at 3B due to injury. 

This team has one true superstar in Buxton. This team doesn't need late inning defensive replacements. This team doesn't need late game pinch runners This team doesn't need short side platoon specialists. 

This team needs talent. 

 

I like where you are going with this.  Erod would not be blocked with Buck / Martin and Erod the starting OF and Larnach the primary DH.  However, Wallner goes to AAA in that scenario and he is behind Roden for coming back.   It would be nice to see some more athleticism on this team.  They can shop Larnach at the deadline if he is still hitting and replace him with one of Jenkins / Roden / Wallner or Gonzalez.

[Riverbrian]

12 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

I like where you are going with this.  Erod would not be blocked with Buck / Martin and Erod the starting OF and Larnach the primary DH.  However, Wallner goes to AAA in that scenario and he is behind Roden for coming back.   It would be nice to see some more athleticism on this team.  They can shop Larnach at the deadline if he is still hitting and replace him with one of Jenkins / Roden / Wallner or Gonzalez.

This is usually the part where I get shouted down. It's a dial not a switch. It doesn't have to be either or. It shouldn't be either or.  

Erod could get 5 games a week. Larnach could get 5 games a week. Wallner could get 5 games a week. Martin can get 5 games a week. Bell could get 5 games a week. Buxton could still play damn close to every day with the occasional DH day or rest day.  

That is 5 players for 4 positions. LF, RF, 1B and DH. Each player sits 1 game out of 4. That will not kill Erod's development. It will allow him to compete with Larnach and Wallner. It will allow him to show that he deserves everyday playing time like Buxton gets or it will allow him to struggle and figure out what he needs to learn for the future. 

It's a dial... not a switch.

How does almost everybody get themselves into the mindset that it's Larnach every day or Larnach being called awful things and tossed completely overboard for no return. Why is there nothing in between playing everyday and not a playing a single day.