Kody Clemens Had the Season Minnesota Twins Wanted Edouard Julien to Have

[rv78]

Clemens may have had the season the Twins wanted Julien to have and that explains why they continue to fail. Accepting mendoza line production from your players will never get you winning baseball. Why is this front office enamored with guys that can barely hit .200 with power? Hasn't Sano, Gallo, Kepler and now Clemens taught them anything? You CAN'T win that way. Power is great, but find your way back to the Bomba Squad of 2019 and it wasn't just home runs that led the Twins to a successful season. They could also hit for average which led to being 2nd in BA and runs scored that year. It appears that Falvey thinks Home Runs alone accounted for that success and forgot or ignores the part that batting average actually gets guys on base that leads to MORE runs.

Only 4 hitters should be guaranteed a spot on the roster next season, Jeffers, Buxton, Keaschall, and Martin. Everyone else should be considered trade bait or DFA material if they are serious about improving the roster.

[chpettit19]

7 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Maybe a few hundred PA to players worse than Julien and most of those were emergency injury replacements from AAA. He's a platoon DH with a 630 OPS. That's not a player worth having on any roster.

The Twins did give over 2000 plate appearances to players worse than career-average performing Kody Clemens. He's a bench player on a bad team, but the Twins are definitely a bad team. They don't have the immediate talent to replace Clemens from within, and they won't spend the money to replace him in free agency. If they cut him, he will find major league playing time elsewhere.

Show me those 2000 plate appearances. The Twins had 6059 total PAs this season. Larnach, Buxton, Lee, Jeffers, Lewis, Wallner, France, Clemens, Correa, Castro, and Bader make up 4676 of those PAs. Take out Lee if you want to argue he's worse than career norm Clemens (I'd argue they're essentially the same, but we can take him out) and you're at 4149 PAs amongst those other guys. So, you're already under 2000 PAs without accounting for Luke Keaschall or Austin Martin who add another 388 to the list and now you're at 1522 PAs. So, the starting point for an argument about PAs going to worse players starts at 1500. And if you think Lee playing SS gives him a boost to being better than career norm Clemens since their bats are essentially the same, you're down to under 1000. 

I will take that bet. If the Twins don't bring him back, Kody Clemens will not be on an opening day roster. He'll be a 30-year-old with limited defensive abilities and a .670 OPS bat. He's a NRI on a minor league deal if the Twins don't bring him back. I fully expect the Twins to bring him back. Like I said, it's not a high bar to make this roster. He won't be the only non-MLB-quality player on it. And that's embarrassing just 2 years after finally winning a playoff series.

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, chpettit19 said:

Show me those 2000 plate appearances. The Twins had 6059 total PAs this season. Larnach, Buxton, Lee, Jeffers, Lewis, Wallner, France, Clemens, Correa, Castro, and Bader make up 4676 of those PAs. Take out Lee if you want to argue he's worse than career norm Clemens (I'd argue they're essentially the same, but we can take him out) and you're at 4149 PAs amongst those other guys. So, you're already under 2000 PAs without accounting for Luke Keaschall or Austin Martin who add another 388 to the list and now you're at 1522 PAs. So, the starting point for an argument about PAs going to worse players starts at 1500. And if you think Lee playing SS gives him a boost to being better than career norm Clemens since their bats are essentially the same, you're down to under 1000. 

I will take that bet. If the Twins don't bring him back, Kody Clemens will not be on an opening day roster. He'll be a 30-year-old with limited defensive abilities and a .670 OPS bat. He's a NRI on a minor league deal if the Twins don't bring him back. I fully expect the Twins to bring him back. Like I said, it's not a high bar to make this roster. He won't be the only non-MLB-quality player on it. And that's embarrassing just 2 years after finally winning a playoff series.

Not to mention Vazquez, who catches.....not that I like him, but there are a few hundred more ABs. 

But quibbling over 200 or 1000 or 2000 isn't important to me. It's that he's not good, has never been good other than 1 month, and he's likely the starting 1B next year. I hope he explodes in a good way....

[LA Vikes Fan]

1 hour ago, Dman said:

My two cents. I don't see the Twins bringing back Julien or Miranda.  They don't have the athletic profile and their bats haven't overcome their defensive deficiencies.  Both are running out of options and the Twins have more versatile players that could replace them.

They just might bring Vasquez back, unless he gets a big offer somewhere else.  The pitchers seem to love him and with a young staff coming up I could see the Twins retaining him if the salary is right.

I think they might keep Fitzgerald on the 40 man.  He didn't play a ton at the MLB level but his stats indicate he held his own.  He was a plus in WAR and WRC+.  He's a cheap backup for Lee while they pay off Correa's Salary.  Unless something else falls in their lap or they decide to spend I think Fitz is the backup for short.

I have Hatch (who I kind of like), Misiewicz and Tonkin all gone in 2026. The Twins have to add a ton of Rule V arms and will need the space.  I don't think any of those arms did anything to prove the Twins can't find similar production on the fringes elsewhere if needed.

I have them Keeping Ohl as he didn't allow a run the last 7 innings pitched.  Not sure if he lasts long term but I think they give him next year to prove he belongs.

I don't know.  Lawyerson pitched well.  I wouldn't have had them adding him, but with how well he did they might have to.

Kiersey will be off the 40 man and I think McCusker too if they need the space.  I can't see them letting go of Outman as cheap Buxton insurance despite the K rate, but maybe that will change their minds?

Their committed to Roden.  He's going to get a ton of chances if he stays healthy.

I think you have all of these right. I would write Laweryson's name on the 26 man in the BP in pen, at least to start the season. Guys with a 1.17 ERA and 0.52 WHIP get a shot, even if the stats are in an incredibly small sample size of 7.2 innings. I expect Roden to get a spot out of ST if he performs there and probably as the starting RF/backup CF with Wallner as the DH and Larnach gone. Roden tore up AAA the last 2 years and now is his shot before Jenkins, Gonzalez, and Emma get theirs. Ohl probably gets a BP spot unless they bring in 3 or more BP guys and/or convert starters. More likely, Ohl is in the bullpen on Opening Day. I also kind of like Hatch. He started off great and then collapsed so I wouldn't be surprised if he was left of the 40 man and gets a MiLB contract with an invite to ST to compete for a BP spot.

[DJL44]

22 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Show me those 2000 plate appearances. The Twins had 6059 total PAs this season. Larnach, Buxton, Lee, Jeffers, Lewis, Wallner, France, Clemens, Correa, Castro, and Bader make up 4676 of those PAs. Take out Lee if you want to argue he's worse than career norm Clemens (I'd argue they're essentially the same, but we can take him out) and you're at 4149 PAs amongst those other guys. So, you're already under 2000 PAs without accounting for Luke Keaschall or Austin Martin who add another 388 to the list and now you're at 1522 PAs. So, the starting point for an argument about PAs going to worse players starts at 1500. And if you think Lee playing SS gives him a boost to being better than career norm Clemens since their bats are essentially the same, you're down to under 1000. 

I will take that bet. If the Twins don't bring him back, Kody Clemens will not be on an opening day roster. He'll be a 30-year-old with limited defensive abilities and a .670 OPS bat. He's a NRI on a minor league deal if the Twins don't bring him back. I fully expect the Twins to bring him back. Like I said, it's not a high bar to make this roster. He won't be the only non-MLB-quality player on it. And that's embarrassing just 2 years after finally winning a playoff series.

Lee 527

Larnach 503 (due to defensive value)

France 387 (the guy who lost his job to Clemens)

Julien 208 

Vazquez 214 (but he's a catcher, if you want to throw him out, fine)

Gasper 110

Outman 104

Keirsey Jr 88

Bride 80

Miranda 36

McCusker 30

That's 2073 PA if I don't include Vazquez. 

[Patzky]

1 hour ago, bunsen82 said:

Stating a player will be on the IL  seems rather silly.   If that were to occur I think the most likey outcome is Lee back to 2nd and Culpepper up.  

Lee was a butcher at second let's not forget.

[chpettit19]

51 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Lee 527

Larnach 503 (due to defensive value)

France 387 (the guy who lost his job to Clemens)

Julien 208 

Vazquez 214 (but he's a catcher, if you want to throw him out, fine)

Gasper 110

Outman 104

Keirsey Jr 88

Bride 80

Miranda 36

McCusker 30

That's 2073 PA if I don't include Vazquez. 

Yeah, we'll have to agree to disagree on Larnach and France. France has outhit Clemens his entire career and got legit PAs for the #1 seed in the AL down the stretch. Larnach has a better chance of getting a non-Twins roster spot this offseason than Clemens. By quite a bit. And Lee at least provides possible future value, so giving him PAs down the stretch of a lost season and to start next year makes infinitely more sense than Kody Clemens getting PAs.

But that's all besides the point. Kody Clemens wouldn't get an MLB deal in free agency. But he's likely to be on the Twins roster next year because their bar for entrance is set so incredibly low. If he's a super 2 and they pay him more than league minimum it's absolutely an overpay and there's no other team in baseball who would pay him that deal. Ty France made a non-guaranteed $1 million this year. He's outperformed Clemens by a mile in their respective careers and Clemens would be going into free agency at the same age as France when he got that deal from the Twins. Kody Clemens is a minor league player who'd get an invite to training camp. He's not an MLB player. But this article is arguing the Twins should've/would've been happy with Julien being Clemens with the bat. Neither of them are MLB players and it's really not even that close. Thats how badly they've destroyed this team.

[bunsen82]

1 hour ago, Patzky said:

Lee was a butcher at second let's not forget.

Yes he hasn’t had a ton of experience there. I am sure he will work on it in the offseason. It’s not a great option but it is an option if as the initial poster claimed Keashall is on the IL all year which seems like a doomsday prophesy. 

[bunsen82]

27 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Yeah, we'll have to agree to disagree on Larnach and France. France has outhit Clemens his entire career and got legit PAs for the #1 seed in the AL down the stretch. Larnach has a better chance of getting a non-Twins roster spot this offseason than Clemens. By quite a bit. And Lee at least provides possible future value, so giving him PAs down the stretch of a lost season and to start next year makes infinitely more sense than Kody Clemens getting PAs.

But that's all besides the point. Kody Clemens wouldn't get an MLB deal in free agency. But he's likely to be on the Twins roster next year because their bar for entrance is set so incredibly low. If he's a super 2 and they pay him more than league minimum it's absolutely an overpay and there's no other team in baseball who would pay him that deal. Ty France made a non-guaranteed $1 million this year. He's outperformed Clemens by a mile in their respective careers and Clemens would be going into free agency at the same age as France when he got that deal from the Twins. Kody Clemens is a minor league player who'd get an invite to training camp. He's not an MLB player. But this article is arguing the Twins should've/would've been happy with Julien being Clemens with the bat. Neither of them are MLB players and it's really not even that close. Thats how badly they've destroyed this team.

Clemens was a 1 WAR player. No team would have him as a starter but I do think several would have him as a bench option hoping they could get more out of him. His position flexibility does give him a leg up. Players with power and good defense tend to get opportunities. 

[chpettit19]

4 minutes ago, bunsen82 said:

Clemens was a 1 WAR player. No team would have him as a starter but I do think several would have him as a bench option hoping they could get more out of him. His position flexibility does give him a leg up. Players with power and good defense tend to get opportunities. 

And after his 1 outlier month of May he wasn't that player. He slugged .400 while hitting .200 with an OBP well below .300. That isn't the kind of power teams want. Especially not from a guy who's "position flexibility" is mostly 1B and the corner outfield. And he's 30, not 25. They'll hope to get more out of him on a minor league deal.

His stats after May are almost identical to his career numbers. That's what teams are going to look at. .200/.260/.400. That isn't even a bench bat at the positions he plays. Unless you're the Twins.

[Jacksson]

ANY Position Player, other than Catcher who can't hit .250 over the course of the season has no business being on a MLB 26 man roster and for that matter a MLB 40 man roster.

[DJL44]

6 minutes ago, Jacksson said:

ANY Position Player, other than Catcher who can't hit .250 over the course of the season has no business being on a MLB 26 man roster and for that matter a MLB 40 man roster.

League batting average is .245. A majority of players can't hit .250. Do you really think that over half the players in MLB have no business being on an MLB roster? That's nonsensical.

[DJL44]

16 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

His stats after May are almost identical to his career numbers. That's what teams are going to look at. .200/.260/.400. That isn't even a bench bat at the positions he plays. Unless you're the Twins.

Or the Guardians, who somehow won the division with an offense even worse than the Twins.

[Mike Sixel]

16 minutes ago, Jacksson said:

ANY Position Player, other than Catcher who can't hit .250 over the course of the season has no business being on a MLB 26 man roster and for that matter a MLB 40 man roster.

You might not want to look at league wide stats..... because you just eliminated the majority of MLB players.

[jkcarew]

Are we turning Julien into Clemens in the field as well?

Because if Julien OPS’s 715, as did Clemens, he’s still a negative-to-zero WAR player. So…if u’r gonna wish, ya gotta wish better…much better than that.

[jorgenswest]

Is it better to look at the Statcast data than a season of slash stats? In Clemens case isn’t the sample small for looking slash stats in making a decision about the roster? I do wonder if there is something there that is worth bringing back.

• He had a positive OAA at 1B and 2B and 0 in LF and RF. 
• He was 4th on the Twins in xwOBA at .345. One of the four is Fitzgerald in a sample much smaller. Buxton and Martin were ahead of him.
• He was second behind Buxton in exit velocity
• Base running was a positive.
• He improved his bat speed by almost 2 mph in 2025 with the same swing length

Starting 1B? Maybe not. The xwOBAs of the other starting 1Bs in the central were .347, .346, .330 and .320. His was .345 with the Twins. Is it possible he will improve given his limited major league at bats? Are his quality of contact numbers are better predictors of the future than his slash stats?

Wouldn’t it be good to have a player on the bench that can play five positions reasonably well, run the bases well enough and a bat that performed near major league average and could be better?

 

[DocBauer]

Cody, no offense, but I really don't even understand the premise here. Why Clemens? I'm assuming because they each saw time at 2B and 1B. 

While different positions, I believe a more accurate comparison is Julien vs Larnach. Why? Both are LH and true FB first and seemingly only hitters. In MILB Julien surpassed Larnach in OB%, but Larnach surpassed him in actual AVG. Larnach made a comment a year or so ago that he hadn't seen much of anything but breaking balls and offspeed stuff since he was in the minors. But he has, more or less, adapted and turned in to a ML average to slightly above average player. Meanwhile, Julien simply hasn't been able to do so. While Julien doesn't have Larnach's pure power, he's clearly shown HR and XB power previously. Both were relatively good, patient hitters in MILB. One has made adjustments, though he's never become the hitter or power plant hoped for, and the other simply hasn't been able to make any adjustments at all.

While different positions, I actually find these two to be a more accurate representation of what the Twins hoped for in Julien, albeit with a little more speed and playing 2B.

That being said, NEITHER Julien or Clemens should be on the 40 man going in to next season. I'm OK with a MILB deal and a possible invite, but that's it. Period. The Twins need to shoot higher, and that's been part of their problem the past couple of seasons.

Some have mentioned Fitzgerald here and there. I don't know that I'd protect him either. But at least he's a viable backup glove at SS with a solid AAA resume, meaning he hopefully won't embarrass himself at the plate. 

Clemens' actual numbers, save his 1st month with the Twins, are just really bad. The ability to play decently at a couple spots, provide the occasional HR, are nice. But the Twins should be looking for better than that!

Everyone is so down on LH Roden. But he's younger than Clemens, and has FAR better MILB numbers and his rookie debut was just that, a rookie debut. IF the Twins don't address 1B in any sort of meaningful way, I'd much rather see Roden and Fedko at 1B rather than a 30yo journeyman with a sub everything quad slash line for his career. At least you'd have a couple 25/26yo with SOME potential and upside.

And who knows, maybe they WILL address 1B. But the point is, they need to be using their imagination to put together a solid team and quit making excuses for a poor player simply due to exit velocity and a good month.

[bunsen82]

6 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

Clemens doesn't deserve a spot on any MLB team either. He isn't a great defender at a premium position or anything. Kody Clemens is not an MLB player. There's a reason the 29-year-old has never stuck on an MLB team until this joke of a Twins team ran him out there for 112 games and doubled his career PAs.

Julien isn't an MLB player, you're right. The point is that Clemens isn't either and giving guys like him nearly 400 PAs is why this team continues to struggle.

Then why did Gallo get so many opportunities with sub Mendoza stats? I still don’t think he is a starter, a bench player absolutely.   

[chpettit19]

8 minutes ago, bunsen82 said:

Then why did Gallo get so many opportunities with sub Mendoza stats? I still don’t think he is a starter, a bench player absolutely.   

Because Gallo put up significantly better numbers than Clemens. His career OBP and SLG were both 50 points higher than Clemens. And his peak was All Star level good where he was putting up multiple 800 to 900+ OPS seasons. Clemens great breakout season barely cracked 700 and he's a career .666 OPS guy. Even after his career completely fell apart Gallo still ended up with a career OPS 60 pts higher than Clemens big breakout year, and over 100 pts higher than Clemens career. He was a significantly better player. That's why he got his last couple shots. Shoot, Gallo's season with the Twins was a disaster and he still ended with nearly a .750 OPS while being over .300 in OBP with a .440 slug. 

[High heat]

Julien and Clemens will be interesting to see if one or both get DFAed. 
 

It would be a terrible going into 2026 with both guys on the roster. 
 

You could sell me on Clemens or Julien as a bench bat but either starting significant games without a much better right handed option. 
 

 

[Permanent Twins Fan]

Edouard Julien has no future with the Twins. He was good for a time in 2023, but has not been good since. Kody Clemens is fine, but if the Twins want to have a playoff caliber team, they need to bring in a backup first basemen. Carlos Santana would be a nice addition to back up Clemens, and provide some occasional pop

[bunsen82]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

Because Gallo put up significantly better numbers than Clemens. His career OBP and SLG were both 50 points higher than Clemens. And his peak was All Star level good where he was putting up multiple 800 to 900+ OPS seasons. Clemens great breakout season barely cracked 700 and he's a career .666 OPS guy. Even after his career completely fell apart Gallo still ended up with a career OPS 60 pts higher than Clemens big breakout year, and over 100 pts higher than Clemens career. He was a significantly better player. That's why he got his last couple shots. Shoot, Gallo's season with the Twins was a disaster and he still ended with nearly a .750 OPS while being over .300 in OBP with a .440 slug. 

Gallo was paid 11 million for a .740 ops and .5 War.  Clemens was paid peanuts for .715 OPS and 1 WAR.  Now this may have been a fluke season because of a hot streak. But his OPS  in 350 at bats was .100 points higher than his first 350 at bats. That does show the potential for improvement. Yes he is older but still in what should be his peak years.  We probably won’t agree I’m surprised you are unwilling to consider him a bench player on some teams.  

[Fatbat]

There are too many KC’s and EJ’s in the twins org. None of them should be given regular playing time but thats what we have when we wont pay for better talent. 

[chpettit19]

8 hours ago, bunsen82 said:

Gallo was paid 11 million for a .740 ops and .5 War.  Clemens was paid peanuts for .715 OPS and 1 WAR.  Now this may have been a fluke season because of a hot streak. But his OPS  in 350 at bats was .100 points higher than his first 350 at bats. That does show the potential for improvement. Yes he is older but still in what should be his peak years.  We probably won’t agree I’m surprised you are unwilling to consider him a bench player on some teams.  

And that's why I described Gallo's season with the Twins as "a disaster." I don't care what Clemens was paid. He's not an MLB player. The fact that he's going into his age 30 season and hasn't hit true arbitration (he'll likely be a super 2) isn't some badge of honor, it's more evidence to my point. He couldn't get to 3 years service time before he was 30. That's the league screaming at you that he's not good enough.

You shouldn't be surprised I'm unwilling to consider him a bench player when he has the stats he has at the age of 30. Having such a small sample size at this point of his career that 1 singular month can have such an outsized impact on his career line is not impressive, it's another indictment. Teams that ignore 5 months of data in favor of 1 month of data struggle. Teams that ignore 13 months of data for 1 month of data end up like the Twins. Kody Clemens has 13 months of data showing who he truly is, ignoring that 1 month carried his stat line this year to still below average instead of way below average is bad player evaluation. Kody Clemens is not a major leaguer and he is example A of how bad things truly are around 1 Twins Way.

[bunsen82]

21 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

And that's why I described Gallo's season with the Twins as "a disaster." I don't care what Clemens was paid. He's not an MLB player. The fact that he's going into his age 30 season and hasn't hit true arbitration (he'll likely be a super 2) isn't some badge of honor, it's more evidence to my point. He couldn't get to 3 years service time before he was 30. That's the league screaming at you that he's not good enough.

You shouldn't be surprised I'm unwilling to consider him a bench player when he has the stats he has at the age of 30. Having such a small sample size at this point of his career that 1 singular month can have such an outsized impact on his career line is not impressive, it's another indictment. Teams that ignore 5 months of data in favor of 1 month of data struggle. Teams that ignore 13 months of data for 1 month of data end up like the Twins. Kody Clemens has 13 months of data showing who he truly is, ignoring that 1 month carried his stat line this year to still below average instead of way below average is bad player evaluation. Kody Clemens is not a major leaguer and he is example A of how bad things truly are around 1 Twins Way.

He had a better MLB season than many other active starters and several bench players on other teams. It isn’t up for debate. Choosing to ignore the best stats of a player because it doesn’t fit your narrative doesn’t help either. All players go on hot streaks. Maybe that month was the best he can do and will never see it again. There have been examples of late bloomers in the past. If he is not on the Twins he will get a contract from another team. It will not be a minor league invite deal. 700+ OPS,  solid defense and positional flexibility will be something at minimum 5 teams would be willing to take a chance on. Had he hit a .700 OPS he would still be with the Phillies. 

[chpettit19]

15 minutes ago, bunsen82 said:

He had a better MLB season than many other active starters and several bench players on other teams. It isn’t up for debate. Choosing to ignore the best stats of a player because it doesn’t fit your narrative doesn’t help either. All players go on hot streaks. Maybe that month was the best he can do and will never see it again. There have been examples of late bloomers in the past. If he is not on the Twins he will get a contract from another team. It will not be a minor league invite deal. 700+ OPS,  solid defense and positional flexibility will be something at minimum 5 teams would be willing to take a chance on. Had he hit a .700 OPS he would still be with the Phillies. 

"Maybe" that month is the best he can do? The rest of his season is nearly identical to his career line. I mean it's almost impossible to get closer. He was -.003 in BA, +.004 in OBP, -.001 in SLG, and +.004 in OPS. That is who he is. He's a .200/.265/.400/.665 hitter. He has 700+ major league PAs showing that. 

This conversation is going nowhere. You can like him. You can hold out hope he's closer to that 70 PA sample size from May. I'll go ahead and take the other 711 PAs that show he's very consistently the exact same .665 OPS hitter. 

And, no, absolutely not. If he'd cratered back down to his career norms for 4 months and 300+ PAs of .660 OPS he would not be with the Phillies anymore. You know how I know? Because that exact thing happened last season and they demoted him. He had a .908 OPS through May last year, .601 from June through September. Ended the season with a .706 OPS. But the Phillies didn't just carry him the whole season because his May stat line was carrying his season long OPS, they demoted him. He had 79 PAs after May because he was bad and they were trying to win and weren't going to waste PAs on a bad player. So, no, he wouldn't still be with the Phillies because teams aren't naive enough to blindly just look at overall OPS and not look into it any further. He didn't have options left this year so they didn't demote him they DFA'd him. Then the Twins got their hands on him and carried him all season despite him cratering back down and now you're arguing that he's actually good and a good team would still carry him despite that very team having refused to carry him just last season when he did the exact same thing because who he is is the .200/.265/.400/.665 hitter his career numbers over 700+ PAs say he is.

[bunsen82]

24 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

"Maybe" that month is the best he can do? The rest of his season is nearly identical to his career line. I mean it's almost impossible to get closer. He was -.003 in BA, +.004 in OBP, -.001 in SLG, and +.004 in OPS. That is who he is. He's a .200/.265/.400/.665 hitter. He has 700+ major league PAs showing that. 

This conversation is going nowhere. You can like him. You can hold out hope he's closer to that 70 PA sample size from May. I'll go ahead and take the other 711 PAs that show he's very consistently the exact same .665 OPS hitter. 

And, no, absolutely not. If he'd cratered back down to his career norms for 4 months and 300+ PAs of .660 OPS he would not be with the Phillies anymore. You know how I know? Because that exact thing happened last season and they demoted him. He had a .908 OPS through May last year, .601 from June through September. Ended the season with a .706 OPS. But the Phillies didn't just carry him the whole season because his May stat line was carrying his season long OPS, they demoted him. He had 79 PAs after May because he was bad and they were trying to win and weren't going to waste PAs on a bad player. So, no, he wouldn't still be with the Phillies because teams aren't naive enough to blindly just look at overall OPS and not look into it any further. He didn't have options left this year so they didn't demote him they DFA'd him. Then the Twins got their hands on him and carried him all season despite him cratering back down and now you're arguing that he's actually good and a good team would still carry him despite that very team having refused to carry him just last season when he did the exact same thing because who he is is the .200/.265/.400/.665 hitter his career numbers over 700+ PAs say he is.

Sept  his slash line was .234/.289/.481 (114 OPS+)    July was .250/.286/.519   May was .279/.362/.623  

Maybe just don't play him in even months LOL.   He was better than just 1 month or 40 at bats.  He did have some bad stretches in August and June with the Twins.   I did understate his OPS with the Twins for the year  .725.  

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, bunsen82 said:

Sept  his slash line was .234/.289/.481     July was .250/.286/.519   May was .279/.362/.623  

Maybe just don't play him in even months LOL.   He was better than just 1 month or 40 at bats.  He did have some bad stretches in August and June with the Twins.  

Like I said, you can like him. You can hold out hope. He has 711 PAs of .200/.265/.400/.665 slash. After May his slash line was nearly identical to his career line. Justify your belief however you want. He is who he is and it's the slash line I continue to provide. When I can take out 1 very clear outlier of a month and get essentially his exact career slash line for the rest of the season it's pretty obvious that month should be ignored. You can believe the 10%, I'll take the 90.

Thanks for the chat, but we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[bunsen82]

3 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Like I said, you can like him. You can hold out hope. He has 711 PAs of .200/.265/.400/.665 slash. After May his slash line was nearly identical to his career line. Justify your belief however you want. He is who he is and it's the slash line I continue to provide. When I can take out 1 very clear outlier of a month and get essentially his exact career slash line for the rest of the season it's pretty obvious that month should be ignored. You can believe the 10%, I'll take the 90.

Thanks for the chat, but we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I am willing to make a bet that he is on a big league roster and gets a contract with an MLB team.   Would prove the point whether he is considered an MLB player or not beyond my or your opinions.   

[chpettit19]

Just now, bunsen82 said:

I am willing to make a bet that he is on a big league roster and gets a contract with an MLB team.   Would prove the point whether he is considered an MLB player or not beyond my or your opinions.   

I fully expect him to be on the Twins opening day roster next year, but that 100% doesn't prove he's an MLB player. The Twins will have multiple players who aren't MLB quality on their opening day roster next year. Just like they did this year. But if he's not, I'm more than willing to bet he makes no opening day roster. I've already said that on this very thread.