Can Brooks Lee and Edouard Julien Coexist on a Functional Minnesota Twins Roster?

[TwinsDr2021]

22 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

His bat shouldn't have anything to do with it if his glove doesn't play there. If Wallner gets squeezed out of RF I wouldn't want him play 2B because his high OPS. If he can get his OPS up to .839 that gives him the opportunity to play 1B at the MLB level, that I've advocated since his MiLB days. That why he needs to be sent to AAA to raise his level at both.

It is nothing like moving Wallner to second. Julien is not great at second but he isn't terrible either. If he can hit like he did in 23, continue to play second base and improve just a little at second base, he is all star material. I am not saying he will or can get back to that, but sending a 26 year (just over a month)  old to the minor leagues and asking him to get better, why bother even having him taking up a 40 man spot.

I will say with the way this FO builds a roster it really doesn't given any young player a chance, which is say ( I also said Julien and Wallner should have been given first basemens gloves a couple of years ago) In reality the Twins have 6 second basemen (Castro, Lewis, Lee, Julien, Gasper, Martin)

[JD-TWINS]

12 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

Spotlight on front office for not capitalizing on trade value when it coincides with multiple players capable of playing the same position (2B - Lee, Castro, Julien, Martin, Gasper, Keaschall, Eeles, etc.). Somebody took the offseason off.

The other viewpoint is that the Twins were interested in a Spring Training competition. JK.

Trading a real chip - IMO, Castro or Keaschall or maybe Lee - these all weaken the club going forward in ‘25. The other guys bring back nothing of value. Not really sure what “plus value” any of the 3 chips bring back? A chip with another arm in the deal may have worked but to gain what? Julien - Martin - Gasper are all long shots to make the club they are with now……who/what do they bring back in trade?

[Trov]

As the roster is currently constructed no they both cannot be on it at the MLB level.  Lee has the ability to play 3rd and possibly some SS at MLB level but with CC and Lewis both in line up they will take those spots, unless Lewis needs to take 2nd and move Lee to 3rd.  Regardless, there is 1 spot of 2nd base.  Now, possibly if France crashes and burns they try Julien at 1st but that would also be if Miranda is on a down swing.  

They could both play on the roster but that is only with injuries or poor 1st base performance really. 

[Guest]

No.

[JD-TWINS]

1 hour ago, Doctor Gast said:

Your title is misleading. Because Julien should be sent down to AAA so he can adjust his hitting & finally learn how to play 1B so he shouldn't be considered at 2B. But the Twins want him to be, so unfortunately he'll continue to play too much 2B. 

 Castro is needed all over the field, Lee is the 1st option at SS & 3B (still needs to prove he can hit at MLB). We need more stability at 2B & Julien is a terrible choice. Martin is hard pressed in the OF & he's not needed there, we have (RH) Buxton & Bader & (BH) Castro against occasional LHPs. IMO having Martin stable at 2B, which is his natural position, would do wonders for Martin & the Twins. To make it clear, Martin has pretty much even splits.

Since you mentioned Keirsey. I'll note he's our only true (LH) CFer that should be used to platoon against available RHP to sub Buxton.

Who’s on the roster?

Martin - Bader - Kiersey - Castro - Gasper - Miranda - etc……. somebody has to go & this assumes Julien isn’t on 26 man. Can’t just list guys that could be helpful.

[Doctor Gast]

1 hour ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

It is nothing like moving Wallner to second. Julien is not great at second but he isn't terrible either. If he can hit like he did in 23, continue to play second base and improve just a little at second base, he is all star material. I am not saying he will or can get back to that, but sending a 26 year (just over a month)  old to the minor leagues and asking him to get better, why bother even having him taking up a 40 man spot.

I will say with the way this FO builds a roster it really doesn't given any young player a chance, which is say ( I also said Julien and Wallner should have been given first basemens gloves a couple of years ago) In reality the Twins have 6 second basemen (Castro, Lewis, Lee, Julien, Gasper, Martin)

Stats are so manipulated to make sluggers look more acceptable defensively. Having Correa & Santana cover for him to make him acceptable at 2B, didn't work out, especially when Correa was down. Post shift ban you can no longer hide poor fielders at 2B, Now having France at 1B, Julien is a liability at 2B.

To answer your question, that is my point. Last offseason I pointed out that if they don't play Julien at 1B & are determined to play him at 2B they need to trade him when his trade value had peaked. Julien still has value but the Twins are too in love with him, much like Cave.

[Jeff K]

14 hours ago, RpR said:

Lee could out in the field bare-handed and be a better fielder than Julien.

Lee has nothing to worry about.

I agree.  julien is such a poor fielder, that he does not belong in the majors.  

[Riverbrian]

Don't know how accurate it is but I saw this the other day.  

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseball/news/twins-willi-castro-lined-up-to-see-bulk-of-2b-reps/

If Castro is indeed the bulk 2B (if we break camp healthy). One of Julien or Lee can't come north out of Ft. Myers. I'd assume Lee because I don't think Lee will get a 26 man roster spot if he isn't the primary or bulk guy at a position and Castro is the 2B primary/bulk dude.  

I shouldn't assume but I assume that Jeffers, Vazquez, France, Castro, Lewis, Correa, Larnach, Buxton and Wallner are locks. And I assume that Miranda and Bader are also locks. 

That leaves two spots. 

If Castro is the bulk guy at 2B. In my mind... that makes Martin almost a lock because he can move around and play other positions and he can short side one of the two left handers that I consider locks. 

The last spot goes to ??? Julien or Gasper??? I don't think it will be Emma or Keirsay and that's what we have on the 40 man.

I can't see any of the NRI's or someone not on the 40 man at this time getting the last spot.  

We have the DH spot to play with... we have plenty of guys who can play in the OF.

Both Julien and Gasper are left handed... the other two 40 man options are both left handed and that produces the interesting question: What does Rocco do with a non-primary or non-bulk guy who hits left handed because hitting left handed the past couple of years... means bulk guy due to 75% of pitchers being right handed. 

I wouldn't rule out the possibility of all three (Lee, Julien and Gasper) not breaking camp and the Twins picking up some currently unknown guy released from another organization. Which of course costs a 40 man spot and someone making room.

Canterino to the 60?... Castellano sent back to the Phillies?  

I may be assuming right now but I'll sit and watch knowing that possibilities still exist and I may be close or way off. 

 

[Doctor Gast]

37 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

Trading a real chip - IMO, Castro or Keaschall or maybe Lee - these all weaken the club going forward in ‘25. The other guys bring back nothing of value. Not really sure what “plus value” any of the 3 chips bring back? A chip with another arm in the deal may have worked but to gain what? Julien - Martin - Gasper are all long shots to make the club they are with now……who/what do they bring back in trade?

To give you a general idea, Baseball Trade Values has Lee at 37.1 surplus value, Keaschal has 24.1, Julien has 16.4, Castro has 10.5, Martin has 3.8, & Gasper has 0. IMO, trading Castro, Martin or Gasper we won't likely get back worthwhile players that we'd gain anything. Julien is not needed, but yet can get you something in trade. I'd be open to trade Keaschal or Lee depending the player we'd get in return. Lee, I'm more reluctant because he's our 1st SS sub. We'd need to find a viable replacement.

[Fatbat]

2 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

Your title is misleading. Because Julien should be sent down to AAA so he can adjust his hitting & finally learn how to play 1B so he shouldn't be considered at 2B. But the Twins want him to be, so unfortunately he'll continue to play too much 2B. 

 Castro is needed all over the field, Lee is the 1st option at SS & 3B (still needs to prove he can hit at MLB). We need more stability at 2B & Julien is a terrible choice. Martin is hard pressed in the OF & he's not needed there, we have (RH) Buxton & Bader & (BH) Castro against occasional LHPs. IMO having Martin stable at 2B, which is his natural position, would do wonders for Martin & the Twins. To make it clear, Martin has pretty much even splits.

Since you mentioned Keirsey. I'll note he's our only true (LH) CFer that should be used to platoon against available RHP to sub Buxton.

I definitely agree that Martin needs to play at one defensive position. 2B would work and hopefully he excels and finds his bat. Otherwise, package him up and send him somewhere to platoon with Julien. 

[JD-TWINS]

4 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

To give you a general idea, Baseball Trade Values has Lee at 37.1 surplus value, Keaschal has 24.1, Julien has 16.4, Castro has 10.5, Martin has 3.8, & Gasper has 0. IMO, trading Castro, Martin or Gasper we won't likely get back worthwhile players that we'd gain anything. Julien is not needed, but yet can get you something in trade. I'd be open to trade Keaschal or Lee depending the player we'd get in return. Lee, I'm more reluctant because he's our 1st SS sub. We'd need to find a viable replacement.

Julien for a warm body does team no good. Nothing about his ‘24 would entice a trade partner for more than an A ball guy with a moderate ceiling, IMO.

Seems if there was a guy to trade, along with an arm to get some real value back, it would have been Castro. Also, $7M or whatever in saved $$.

I’m hoping Keaschall is good enough hitter to be the long term guy at either 2B or 1B……have fingers crossed. While not impressed with Lee at the plate in ‘24, he’s worth giving some time to develop and try to figure it out.

An opportunity for the FO may have been missed with Castro’s value coming off ‘24 but they are scared none of the young guys will hit effectively……need the depth.

[djvang]

15 hours ago, HerbieFan said:

I just don't see any value in Julien that has any thing to do with putting on a glove.  And he seems to have forgotten how to hit.

We were at the game when he threw the game-ending DP ball into left field. The Twins never recovered from that loss. He looks terrified on the field.

[Nashvilletwin]

58 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

Julien for a warm body does team no good

It would do him a heck of a lot of good.

Just do him a solid and trade him to an organization that truly wants to see him succeed.  He’s just going to continue to rot here. 

[Fatbat]

3 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

To give you a general idea, Baseball Trade Values has Lee at 37.1 surplus value, Keaschal has 24.1, Julien has 16.4, Castro has 10.5, Martin has 3.8, & Gasper has 0. IMO, trading Castro, Martin or Gasper we won't likely get back worthwhile players that we'd gain anything. Julien is not needed, but yet can get you something in trade. I'd be open to trade Keaschal or Lee depending the player we'd get in return. Lee, I'm more reluctant because he's our 1st SS sub. We'd need to find a viable replacement.

I can’t see Keaschall in a trade discussion when his value is unrealized. He has the highest ceiling of anyone not named Lewis or Correa. He is the type that you count on to be around for years which is why he is fast tracked thru the system. He not only understands baseball, he is actually good at playing it. 
Other guys can struggle to develop for years and will likely make multiple stops on their MLB journey to bloom.  LK already has MLB talent, They need to take that chance and set him in the spotlight. 

[Rod Carews Birthday]

At some point, one of Lee/Julien (or perhaps both) are going to need to be part time bench players.  We act as though their skills will fall apart with a bench role in MLB but they will develop into all-stars if they go back to St. Paul where they can play full time.  Twins’ bench players play a lot.  Whether you like that is a matter of personal preference, but it’s true — nobody (except the long reliever) sits for weeks at a time.  So, they can both co-exist and based on MAJOR LEAGUE performance, a decision can be made about who will get the second base job.  Remember, neither of them hit MLB pitching last year, but Julien does have the track record of hitting MLB pitching in 2023.  Let’s find out what they can do in 2025 and reward the winner.    

[bean5302]

I'd prefer Brooks Lee to see at least 200 PA in AAA this year. Lee hasn't demonstrated a lot at the plate at the AAA level. He had that 100 PA last year before his call up, but apart from that, his other experience in AAA/MLB has not been good. I'd like to see him get some every day playing time and prove his bat has taken a step forward. He's got plenty of options and time.

Julien is on his last option. He did technically get votes for RoY in 2023 and he produced the highest fWAR of any of Falvey's drafted position players in Twins history.

Here is Eddie "doesn't know how to hit any more" Julien's track record:
4/23 - .222/.276/.444 wRC+ 96
5/23 - .229/.333/.457 wRC+ 116 
6/23 - .296/.381/.407 wRC+ 122
7/23 - .369/.461/.723 wRC+ 222
8/23 - .237/.352/.303 wRC+ 91
9/23 - .210/.396/.432 wRC+ 137
4/24 - .223/.330/.500 wRC+ 136
*5/24 - .181/.272/.194 wRC+ 41
Demoted - Worthless - No good - Can't hit anymore - Trade him for a PTBNL

*5/1-5/15 last year - .243/.364/.270 wRC+ 94
Literally. He had a two week slump at the end of May last year and his career was over around here. The rug was yanked out from under him in favor of golden child, Brooks Lee, and that was pretty much that. Julien was terrible in September last year, but he was solid in August. He's not been terrible in ST this year.

I've never been a huge fan of Julien's, but seeing just how fast people turned on him reminds me of Brent Rooker. They're two totally different players with different skill sets, but it's the same vitriolic scenario where TD atmosphere switches the hype machine to a new target and aggressively writes off a player with plenty of potential after a small sample size of struggles.. The projection models all expect Julien to be above average at the plate. BTV literally has Julien about on par with guys like Luke Keaschall and Zebby Matthews in terms of value.

[LambchoP]

I think it'll be Lee at second base. Julien needs to prove he can hit again at AAA. Either way, both of these guys need to be playing everyday, not a bench job 

[stringer bell]

7 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

I'd prefer Brooks Lee to see at least 200 PA in AAA this year. Lee hasn't demonstrated a lot at the plate at the AAA level. He had that 100 PA last year before his call up, but apart from that, his other experience in AAA/MLB has not been good. I'd like to see him get some every day playing time and prove his bat has taken a step forward. He's got plenty of options and time.

Julien is on his last option. He did technically get votes for RoY in 2023 and he produced the highest fWAR of any of Falvey's drafted position players in Twins history.

Here is Eddie "doesn't know how to hit any more" Julien's track record:
4/23 - .222/.276/.444 wRC+ 96
5/23 - .229/.333/.457 wRC+ 116 
6/23 - .296/.381/.407 wRC+ 122
7/23 - .369/.461/.723 wRC+ 222
8/23 - .237/.352/.303 wRC+ 91
9/23 - .210/.396/.432 wRC+ 137
4/24 - .223/.330/.500 wRC+ 136
*5/24 - .181/.272/.194 wRC+ 41
Demoted - Worthless - No good - Can't hit anymore - Trade him for a PTBNL

*5/1-5/15 last year - .243/.364/.270 wRC+ 94
Literally. He had a two week slump at the end of May last year and his career was over around here. The rug was yanked out from under him in favor of golden child, Brooks Lee, and that was pretty much that. Julien was terrible in September last year, but he was solid in August. He's not been terrible in ST this year.

I've never been a huge fan of Julien's, but seeing just how fast people turned on him reminds me of Brent Rooker. They're two totally different players with different skill sets, but it's the same vitriolic scenario where TD atmosphere switches the hype machine to a new target and aggressively writes off a player with plenty of potential after a small sample size of struggles.. The projection models all expect Julien to be above average at the plate. BTV literally has Julien about on par with guys like Luke Keaschall and Zebby Matthews in terms of value.

I don't think either Lee or Julien earned a pass onto the 2025 Opening Day roster. In another thread someone reported that Willi Castro will be getting the bulk of innings at second base to start the season. If so, what becomes of Julien and Lee? IMHO, if neither is playing second base regularly, it might be best to send them both down to the minors to start the season.

Lee started 2024 injured and then suffered another injury during the season that he tried to play through. It didn't go well. He's looked pretty good this spring, both with the bat and in the field. I think the Twins should start him at second, but if he's not starting, I'm not sure being a bench guy is the right route for him.

Julien had a very good rookie year, despite showing a less than stellar glove. If he hits like 2023, he should get playing time somewhere. We don't know if that is the case. The fielding seems to have gone backward and besides errors, Eddie has never been smooth in the field. He's often hesitant and I don't think his hands and footwork are up to par.

Again, if Castro settles in as the primary second baseman, a case could be made for Lee to be the three position backup infielder, especially since he is a switch hitter. A second option at second base would probably get quite a few starts because of Castro's proven status as a five or six position Swiss Army Knife. Austin Martin could fill a role as an outfielder/infielder with good speed, DaShawn Keirsey Jr. could be fifth outfielder is Willi is almost exclusively used in the infield or the Twins could carry Julien or Gasper as a backup second baseman/first baseman/DH. I like that Gasper is also a switch hitter and it doesn't hurt that he could fill a few innings behind the plate. 

 

[thelanges5]

[stringer bell]

46 minutes ago, Nashvilletwin said:

It would do him a heck of a lot of good.

Just do him a solid and trade him to an organization that truly wants to see him succeed.  He’s just going to continue to rot here. 

I don't think the Twins owe Julien playing time after his 2024 season. The idea that the organization is somehow mistreating him is contradicted by his poor performance last year, and it was poor.

With the likelihood of new ownership, Baldelli is probably managing for his job or his next job this year. Player development might be a slightly lower priority. 

I struggle with the idea that the Twins should be starting the same nine every day, when there is no real consensus who that nine should be. Getting more everyday players would mean less platooning, but maybe the players who are being platooned aren't good enough to play every day. There seems to be disagreement about everyone except Buxton, Correa and Lewis. Currently my count is that there are 16 viable position players for 13 spots and nine starting positions. Who the three are that are going to St. Paul is the subject for debate. Also up for debate is who should be getting in excess of 400 plate appearances. Arguments could be made for just about any of the remaining players, but I'm not sure any should be written in in ink. 

[RpR]

5 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

So why does Julien keeps finding too much time at 2B?

Baldelli effect.

[Fatbat]

I compare how Julien has been dumped on this sight, the same way Miranda was last year. 2 guys with sophomore slumps. Miranda a shoulder and Julien the hand/eyes/braincell coordination. 

Both are fixable and both players have brighter days ahead. as they mature and develop their skills (much like Rooker has) they will become competent MLB role players. 
Lee is a different case because he started his rookie year injured and wore down in late summer.  
No one here seems to understand that we have a great problem, players coming back from underperformance and youth.  The best part is that we have lots of them and they will all get their time in the sunshine.  
LK still has a higher ceiling than all currently rostered 1B & 2B men. Play the kid!

 

[dxpavelka]

As much as we love Castro and his versatility and all of the things he can do is it possible that the presence of a .700 OPS guy all over the diamond stagnates other guys who, with more playing time, might well end up being much better hitters, both than than him and than they themselves appear to be now? 

[dxpavelka]

23 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

I will say with the way this FO builds a roster it really doesn't given any young player a chance,

I was kind of thinking along those lines when I typed the next sentence. As much as we love Castro and his versatility and all of the things he can do is it possible that the presence of a .700 OPS guy all over the diamond stagnates other guys who, with more playing time, might well end up being much better hitters, both than than him and than they themselves appear to be now? 

[Riverbrian]

20 hours ago, stringer bell said:

I don't think the Twins owe Julien playing time after his 2024 season. The idea that the organization is somehow mistreating him is contradicted by his poor performance last year, and it was poor.

With the likelihood of new ownership, Baldelli is probably managing for his job or his next job this year. Player development might be a slightly lower priority. 

I struggle with the idea that the Twins should be starting the same nine every day, when there is no real consensus who that nine should be. Getting more everyday players would mean less platooning, but maybe the players who are being platooned aren't good enough to play every day. There seems to be disagreement about everyone except Buxton, Correa and Lewis. Currently my count is that there are 16 viable position players for 13 spots and nine starting positions. Who the three are that are going to St. Paul is the subject for debate. Also up for debate is who should be getting in excess of 400 plate appearances. Arguments could be made for just about any of the remaining players, but I'm not sure any should be written in in ink. 

No matter how strongly I feel about the questions you discuss in your post. 

You post a fair outline. 

[tony&rodney]

Looks like Brooks Lee is our third baseman and Edouard Julien our second baseman on Opening Day in St. Louis. Sure hope fans are able to still enjoy the game and a beer despite their past feelings.