Can Austin Martin Become a Trusted Center Field Option for the Twins?

[NYCTK]

1 minute ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

yes, yes we are, I mean that is the thought on Keirsey, Hellman, Gasper(remember Nick Gordon), and all the others players older than 25 that have figured out a position yet.

At least with Keirsey it's not hoping he'll figure something out which he's already proven he can't. It's more wishful thinking that the 27 year old's career in the minors was a mirage and the 360 BABIP he had in AAA last year is going to carry his bat to being a reliable major leaguer. 

 

[DJL44]

49 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

Even better than that, you need only look at the 2022 Season in which Berrios had a 5.23 ERA over 170 IP. 

For the low, low price of $10.7M

[gman]

I don't think the Twins ever concentrated on him learning that position. The Twins focus has primarily been on him playing the infield and being a home run hitter. Sometimes you just have to make a decision with a player and let him learn. The Twins have focused on him being a utility player, like they do with too many players. There have been numerous articles on "Twins Daily" about players coming up and not being good defensively. This isn't the first. Unfortunately they also tried to push into being a power hitter. Just help him be the best he can be.

[NYCTK]

Just now, gman said:

The Twins have focused on him being a utility player, like they do with too many players.

Given his skillset and abilities, I think they were right to push him towards that. It's just unfortunate that he's seemingly not good enough in the field to be a utility player at the major league level. 

[PatPfund]

Martin is a symbol of two franchise trends that drive me nuts. 1) 'Hey, let's bring in crappy veterans at the end of their career to block better prospects!' 2) 'Hey' (says Rocco) 'let's move players all over the place sacrificing defense so I can play L/R hitting matchups more often!' A couple years ago, Matt Wallner spent far more time in the minors than he should have, because Joey Gallo was blocking him off the roster. Last year, Martin was flat out better than Margot at almost everything, but getting regular reps, especially regular reps at one position was a lost cause with the need to get Manuel playing time. And now we still have Martin questions. So, yeah, play him a ton of CF, keep him in the OF, and don't sign another crappy roster-blocker. By mid-season we'll know a lot more, and if it doesn't work, OF is one of the cheaper/easier things to fix in-season (hell, the Braves replaced their whole outfield and won the World Series a few years ago).

[Linus]

I think people (including Twins staff) look at him and see what they think he should be not what he actually is.  He has a sub-par arm, gets bad jumps and takes poor routes to the ball.  He has decent speed but poor instincts on the bases.  At the plate he is going to have to hit for a really high average because he has no power and big league pitchers aren’t going to walk the guy.  Can he get better?  Sure and he probably will but he has a long ways to go to sustain a big league career.  One thing I’ve been concerned about in the Falvey regime is player evaluation.  They seem to miss a lot and Martin is another head scratcher.

[tony&rodney]

Martin was a CF/LF in his first year, 3B/if in second, and Of in his third year at Vanderbilt. Toronto and Minnesota moved him to the infield in 2021 and 2022. When he played in 2023 and 2014 Martin was used in both the infield and outfield.

The idea that Austin Martin hasn't had many experiences in the outfield doesn't compute. Perhaps his issues defensively are a lack of confidence from being moved all over virtually every year and now he finds himself needing to prove himself as a utility player when he was once seen as a future MLB regular. 

I can only wish him good luck. Looking at his usage from college until now, I see what appears to be some mismanagement.

[LambchoP]

In CF, no. I'd be fine with Castro first, then Martin as backup OF 's in the corner. For CF, I really only think Buck and Keirsey. At least until Rodriguez is ready. I think this is the year to finally give Keirsey a shot at real playing time. I don't care he hits left handed. He's a great defender and hit really well all year in AAA, he's got nothing left to prove in the minors.

[Rod Carews Birthday]

I’m in the skeptical group as to whether Austin Martin can develop into a good backup CFer.  However, I think that giving him as many reps there as possible in spring training games is an excellent idea.  There is a little window right now, before Rodriguez, et al. are ready to go, and seeing what we have in Austin Martin is a good way to fill it — especially in spring training games.  If he responds well to it, we have a fantastic problem and a piece of trade material.  If he doesn’t, we can effectively move on from him.  

[JD-TWINS]

1 hour ago, thelanges5 said:

SWR makes the Berrios trade a good one. Martin would be icing on the cake. 

The best Stat Line in comparing these guys is Berrios will be 31 & SWR will be 24 this season!! …….if Twins can get another couple starts and 30-40 more innings ……he’s a nice piece of the rotation going forward. Maybe a perpetual #4-#5 guy, but effective.

[JD-TWINS]

8 minutes ago, LambchoP said:

In CF, no. I'd be fine with Castro first, then Martin as backup OF 's in the corner. For CF, I really only think Buck and Keirsey. At least until Rodriguez is ready. I think this is the year to finally give Keirsey a shot at real playing time. I don't care he hits left handed. He's a great defender and hit really well all year in AAA, he's got nothing left to prove in the minors.

IF Castro is still around, he seems to be the 2nd or 3rd option depending upon Kiersey. Martin is behind Castro as a distant option in CF. At some point, instincts come into play, it’s not all just athleticism in CF.

[JD-TWINS]

28 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

Martin was a CF/LF in his first year, 3B/if in second, and Of in his third year at Vanderbilt. Toronto and Minnesota moved him to the infield in 2021 and 2022. When he played in 2023 and 2014 Martin was used in both the infield and outfield.

The idea that Austin Martin hasn't had many experiences in the outfield doesn't compute. Perhaps his issues defensively are a lack of confidence from being moved all over virtually every year and now he finds himself needing to prove himself as a utility player when he was once seen as a future MLB regular. 

I can only wish him good luck. Looking at his usage from college until now, I see what appears to be some mismanagement.

Can’t disagree……..My opinion is that it probably has more to do with not being a standout at any position. Managers were trying to find him “a spot.” He’s “adequate enough” to get playing time but doesn’t shine anywhere on defense and at MLB level, is just barely adequate at the plate.

[JD-TWINS]

1 hour ago, Heiny said:

Let's not forget that Berrios wanted out.  We were going to lose him one way or another so the trade still looks good to me.

They got 28 starts from SWR as a 23 year old…….no doubt, if he stays healthy, that SWR makes the trade just fine from the Twin’s perspective.

[tony&rodney]

10 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

Can’t disagree……..My opinion is that it probably has more to do with not being a standout at any position. Managers were trying to find him “a spot.” He’s “adequate enough” to get playing time but doesn’t shine anywhere on defense and at MLB level, is just barely adequate at the plate.

Yes, I find that interesting because he was the #5 pick in Round 1, but never had one position in college or thereafter. Good athlete, not openly poor defensively but also not really average either at any position. Odd.

[Fire Dan Gladden]

Feels a little bit like a square peg in a round hole situation.  Push hard enough and it will fit, though not well.

CF is one of the most important defensive positions on the field.  Hoping that someone (basically a rookie nonetheless) suddenly gains the correct instincts to play the position doesn't seem right.

[rdehring]

2 hours ago, laloesch said:

One season does not make a trade a good one.  Berrios has been at this a lot longer than SWR.  

True.  But that is what makes the trade, Berrios for SWR, a good one as SWR is much younger and has many more years at affordable salaries.

[rdehring]

2 hours ago, jmlease1 said:

Martin's terrible fielding last season was surprising to me, because all the reports from the minors were that he was a good OF, who could handle CF and might end up being a plus in LF because of his range. And he was bad defensively last season. There's no way around it, and I'm a guy who likes Martin and believes in him. 

The jump from AAA to MLB is a big one and it's where a lot of talented players stumble. This feels like a bit of a make-or-break season for Martin: get on base, play good defense and carve out a role, or get passed by guys coming up through the system (Rodriguez, Keaschall if he doesn't stick on the dirt, and Jenkins are all making their way). Maybe the different parks and sizes and lights messed him up. Maybe he never got comfortable anywhere. Maybe he didn't put in the work. Maybe he's just not that good. Maybe it was a fluke (which does happen with defensive stats, but Martin didn't pass the eye test last season either).

He has the physical tools to do it. But he's not going to get there with sloppy defense and an OPS under .700. With the utter failure of the team to do anything to improve the team so far, he's got a window with Rodriguez coming off surgery and only having a few ABs in AAA, Keaschall coming off TJ and never playing above AA, Jenkins likely to start in AA, Kiersey not impressing at the plate in his cup of coffee, and helman rarely being healthy. But he needs to play much much better defensively, make more contact, and get on base more.

One other point, jm.  Martin is a youngish player, experience wise.  Add to that the fact that the Twins were playing him all over the place, it felt to me he was flat out overwhelmed with the entire first trip to the 'show.'  Could be a totally different player in 2025.  Will he?

[rdehring]

Lots of comments above about "until Rodriguez gets here."  I have never seen him play. Is he a good center fielder?  Really good and ready to play center for the Twins?  Or will we be talking about finding someone to back up Buxton after he arrives?

[Doctor Gast]

2 hours ago, NYCTK said:

I just don't understand this myth that has someone taken grasp here. He'd played 1000+ innings in the OF in his career before reaching the majors, mostly in CF. At what point is someone no longer learning a new position? 

 

At least with the Twins & probably with any team has he ever been considered as a CFer. There's a big difference between being thrown in CF & try to figure things out on your own & being considered a CFer & trained as one & thrown in CF on a MLB level & expected to perform as a seasoned veteran.

[NYCTK]

1 minute ago, Doctor Gast said:

At least with the Twins & probably with any team has he ever been considered as a CFer. There's a big difference between being thrown in CF & try to figure things out on your own & being considered a CFer & trained as one & thrown in CF on a MLB level & expected to perform as a seasoned veteran.

Not really. But probably because it's been obvious since he started playing ball that he didn't have the instincts for the position at the highest level. And while given chance after chance, he made it the show and looked to prove those coaches right.  

 

[Doctor Gast]

Just now, NYCTK said:

Not really. But probably because it's been obvious since he started playing ball that he didn't have the instincts for the position at the highest level. And while given chance after chance, he made it the show and looked to prove those coaches right.  

 

NO, he was considered as an INFer for most of his career & now lately as a utility player. As the article stated he has the tools to become a good CFer that's why they have experimented with him throughout his professional career, placed him there last season over seasoned Margot & finally now focusing on that aspect in spring training. I guess you are one of those who'll look down on Martin no matter what he does. If hit HRs & struck out a lot & not as good athletically, you'd be singing his praises.

[thelanges5]

Maybe we get some new owners and can make some moves at the trade deadline. For now we have to let the kids play. I like Kiersey as the main CF back up, but it is a good idea for Martin to get more reps out there.

[NYCTK]

16 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

If hit HRs & struck out a lot & not as good athletically, you'd be singing his praises.

I see that you've never seen me discuss Wallner :-)

The article asserts that he has the skills to be a good CFer and I, and many others, vehemently disagree. Possessing speed isn't sufficient to be a good CFer, and Austin Martin isn't even that much of a speedster to begin with. 

If he was struggling with reads and reactions after 1000 innings in the OF, you have to have a lot of faith to think an extra 100 innings in Spring Training is going to be enough to finally get it. 

[DJL44]

11 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

NO, he was considered as an INFer for most of his career & now lately as a utility player. 

2 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

Martin was a CF/LF in his first year, 3B/if in second, and Of in his third year at Vanderbilt. Toronto and Minnesota moved him to the infield in 2021 and 2022. When he played in 2023 and 2014 Martin was used in both the infield and outfield.

The idea that Austin Martin hasn't had many experiences in the outfield doesn't compute. Perhaps his issues defensively are a lack of confidence from being moved all over virtually every year and now he finds himself needing to prove himself as a utility player when he was once seen as a future MLB regular. 

It may be as simple as this

Vanderbilt coaches:

"He's fast, let's put him in the outfield"

"He has no instincts, let's try him in the infield"

"He's even worse there, move him back to the outfield where he won't do as much damage"

Toronto coaches:

"He can't read fly balls, better try to develop him as an infielder"

"He sucks on defense, try to trade him before anyone else figures it out"

MN coaches:

"Let's see if he can play SS, he's failed everywhere else" (I've got nothing on this one)

"He's not going to be a good enough hitter to hold down a corner OF spot, he's going to need to know more than one position to be a bench player. Let's develop him as a utility player."

[Riverbrian]

3 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Is this team developing rookies or competing for a pennant? Giving a person reps hoping they turn into a better player is what non-contenders do.

Not developing rookies or signing capable free agents are the things that non-contenders do. 

[TwinsDr2021]

51 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

NO, he was considered as an INFer for most of his career & now lately as a utility player. As the article stated he has the tools to become a good CFer that's why they have experimented with him throughout his professional career, placed him there last season over seasoned Margot & finally now focusing on that aspect in spring training. I guess you are one of those who'll look down on Martin no matter what he does. If hit HRs & struck out a lot & not as good athletically, you'd be singing his praises.

Jackson Merril never had played CF in the minors only had 5 games in the OF, and played 178 at SS in the minors, and this 21 year old went on to play 155 games in center field, led the league in assists and double plays with a positive WAR as a defender. Good players don't need years and years of practicing a position just to be average defensively.

The excuses made for Twins players is getting old, they are good (worthy of a starting job) or not (utility at best) 

To answer the question can Martin be trusted center field option, it is absolutely without a doubt NO! The only question that can be asked, where the answer is yes is: Can Martin be trusted to be one of the last two men on the active roster? It is the same for Keirsey and Hellman and the reason is because NO team thinks they are good enough or they would have taken them when everybody had a chance.

[Linus]

4 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Jackson Merril never had played CF in the minors only had 5 games in the OF, and played 178 at SS in the minors, and this 21 year old went on to play 155 games in center field, led the league in assists and double plays with a positive WAR as a defender. Good players don't need years and years of practicing a position just to be average defensively.

The excuses made for Twins players is getting old, they are good (worthy of a starting job) or not (utility at best) 

To answer the question can Martin be trusted center field option, it is absolutely without a doubt NO! The only question that can be asked, where the answer is yes is: Can Martin be trusted to be one of the last two men on the active roster? It is the same for Keirsey and Hellman and the reason is because NO team thinks they are good enough or they would have taken them when everybody had a chance.

The Twins threw Nick Gordon in CF a couple years ago and he had never played the outfield in his life.  He did better than Martin.  Posters keep referring to his “tools” and “athleticism “.  What am I missing?  He has a poor arm, average ish speed and no power.  Those are his tools.

[HerbieFan]

If I had to guess, I'd say Martin and/or Castro will get those spot starts in CF when Buxton has a day off or is DHing.  If Buck gets hurt....then Keirsey as a regular option might make more sense.  None of the three are difference makers offensively, so going with the best defender might be a good idea.

[TwinsDr2021]

1 hour ago, HerbieFan said:

If I had to guess, I'd say Martin and/or Castro will get those spot starts in CF when Buxton has a day off or is DHing.  If Buck gets hurt....then Keirsey as a regular option might make more sense.  None of the three are difference makers offensively, so going with the best defender might be a good idea.

My guess would be similar, if Buxton needs a day off and it is a right handed pitcher Keirsey starts, if it is a left hand pitcher Martin starts. If/when Buxton gets hurt the job would be give to Castro and Martin and Keirsey roles stay the same. If Castro gets hurt I would expected Erod to be given the job and Martin and Keirsey role stay the same.

[Doctor Gast]

2 hours ago, DJL44 said:

It may be as simple as this

Vanderbilt coaches:

"He's fast, let's put him in the outfield"

"He has no instincts, let's try him in the infield"

"He's even worse there, move him back to the outfield where he won't do as much damage"

Toronto coaches:

"He can't read fly balls, better try to develop him as an infielder"

"He sucks on defense, try to trade him before anyone else figures it out"

MN coaches:

"Let's see if he can play SS, he's failed everywhere else" (I've got nothing on this one)

"He's not going to be a good enough hitter to hold down a corner OF spot, he's going to need to know more than one position to be a bench player. Let's develop him as a utility player."

Just curious, how did you get these official player evaluation on Martin?