Trevor Richards Was a Truly Inexplicable Deadline Pickup for the Twins

[CCHOF5yearstoolate]

5 hours ago, Parfigliano said:

It reeks of desperation.  A do something to be seen as doing something move.

Desperation would be sending out a top prospect for a rental. This move is too low wattage to qualify as "desperate" to me. This move tells me they didn't really give a hoot about the optics of not moving anything at the deadline.

[kroll]

Like I mentioned on June 17th, all the trade talk is fun and interesting (but 99% poppycock).

But in reality they even outdid themselves with this pathetic trade.

Why? What was the point?

 

[USAFChief]

39 minutes ago, CCHOF5yearstoolate said:

Desperation would be sending out a top prospect for a rental. This move is too low wattage to qualify as "desperate" to me. This move tells me they didn't really give a hoot about the optics of not moving anything at the deadline.

This move is sort of the definition of doing something to soften the optics of doing nothing.

Unless you think our front office really thought this was a move that'd truly help the pen. 

Geez I hope not.

So why else?

[Major League Ready]

Heard on MLB radio today that after last night's loss the twins ARE 54-4 when leading after 7 innings.

[Mike Sixel]

23 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

Heard on MLB radio today that after last night's loss the twins ARE 54-4 when leading after 7 innings.

Facts, shmacts. 

Also, that seems hard to believe....but I'm too lazy to check. 

If true, you can't really ask for more than that, well, you can, but it would be silly.

[Riverbrian]

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

They've added significant payroll at the deadline one time under this ownership across three GMs..... Draw your own conclusions....

It's not even about money for me. 

Just bring someone who can help. Someone who can deepen the squad. We still have to get through August and September with health and I'll bet anyone that we won't. 

There were players who moved at the deadline that could have helped us that were not necessarily expensive in terms of payroll. Prospect cost of course but not major financial hits. At least not for this year. 

They were rumored to be in on Kikuchi. A Rental that would have added 4 million to the payroll. So if we believe the rumors... they were able to add 4 million more. We were rumored to be in on Fedde. That's about 3 Million this year and 7 million next year so they were willing to tack on 7 million for next year. 

We didn't even need to spend that much. 

Tanner Scott would have been a great addition. A Rental around 2 million. 

Gregory Soto has been really average for Philadelphia and he has been brutal with the Orioles since the trade deadline but I would have taken a shot on his huge left handed arm. Around 2 Million remaining this season and his final year of arb next year. 

Chafin was a 2 million dollar rental. 

On the right side of the bullpen Erceg is making the minimum with 5 years of control. 

I would have loved to have added Bryan De La Cruz. He's making the minimum with 3 years of control to come. 

Danny Jansen would have cost a couple of million as a rental. Paredes would have cost a couple million with 3 years of control in the following years. Jazz Chisolm would have been less than a million with 2 more arb years. Arozarena would have cost about 3 million this year with two arb years to come. 

I don't know what happened during the course of trade exploration phone calls but to come away basically blank for two years in a row is very strange. Something, Someone for some reason is holding them back. 

 

[Mike Sixel]

3 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

It's not even about money for me. 

Just bring someone who can help. Someone who can deepen the squad. We still have to get through August and September with health and I'll bet anyone that we won't. 

There were players who moved at the deadline that could have helped us that were not necessarily expensive in terms of payroll. Prospect cost of course but not major financial hits. At least not for this year. 

They were rumored to be in on Kikuchi. A Rental that would have added 4 million to the payroll. So if we believe the rumors... they were able to add 4 million more. We were rumored to be in on Fedde. That's about 3 Million this year and 7 million next year so they were willing to tack on 7 million for next year. 

We didn't even need to spend that much. 

Tanner Scott would have been a great addition. A Rental around 2 million. 

Gregory Soto has been really average for Philadelphia and he has been brutal with the Orioles since the trade deadline but I would have taken a shot on his huge left handed arm. Around 2 Million remaining this season and his final year of arb next year. 

Chafin was a 2 million dollar rental. 

On the right side of the bullpen Erceg is making the minimum with 5 years of control. 

I would have loved to have added Bryan De La Cruz. He's making the minimum with 3 years of control to come. 

Danny Jansen would have cost a couple of million as a rental. Paredes would have cost a couple million with 3 years of control in the following years. Jazz Chisolm would have been less than a million with 2 more arb years. Arozarena would have cost about 3 million this year with two arb years to come. 

I don't know what happened during the course of trade exploration phone calls but to come away basically blank for two years in a row is very strange. Something, Someone for some reason is holding them back. 

 

also a good point! I don't get that last two years AT ALL. 

[TheLeviathan]

39 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

It's not even about money for me. 

Just bring someone who can help. Someone who can deepen the squad. We still have to get through August and September with health and I'll bet anyone that we won't. 

There were players who moved at the deadline that could have helped us that were not necessarily expensive in terms of payroll. Prospect cost of course but not major financial hits. At least not for this year. 

They were rumored to be in on Kikuchi. A Rental that would have added 4 million to the payroll. So if we believe the rumors... they were able to add 4 million more. We were rumored to be in on Fedde. That's about 3 Million this year and 7 million next year so they were willing to tack on 7 million for next year. 

We didn't even need to spend that much. 

Tanner Scott would have been a great addition. A Rental around 2 million. 

Gregory Soto has been really average for Philadelphia and he has been brutal with the Orioles since the trade deadline but I would have taken a shot on his huge left handed arm. Around 2 Million remaining this season and his final year of arb next year. 

Chafin was a 2 million dollar rental. 

On the right side of the bullpen Erceg is making the minimum with 5 years of control. 

I would have loved to have added Bryan De La Cruz. He's making the minimum with 3 years of control to come. 

Danny Jansen would have cost a couple of million as a rental. Paredes would have cost a couple million with 3 years of control in the following years. Jazz Chisolm would have been less than a million with 2 more arb years. Arozarena would have cost about 3 million this year with two arb years to come. 

I don't know what happened during the course of trade exploration phone calls but to come away basically blank for two years in a row is very strange. Something, Someone for some reason is holding them back. 

 

Well, what's the simplest explanation?  We KNOW that this FO is willing to be aggressive, we've seen them do it.  So what's changed?

It's pretty obvious to me: the TV situation.  That money dried up and so did any flexibility the FO had.  I'm not sure they had the greenlight to add much of any payroll.  We're seeing the pretty obvious consequences of that - an already thin pitching staff is completely sapped right now and reinforcements don't appear to be coming.

[TheLeviathan]

2 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

Heard on MLB radio today that after last night's loss the twins ARE 54-4 when leading after 7 innings.

Not quite - 53-3 according to Park.

But I'm sure that won't get in the way of complaining.

[Riverbrian]

1 minute ago, TheLeviathan said:

Well, what's the simplest explanation?  We KNOW that this FO is willing to be aggressive, we've seen them do it.  So what's changed?

It's pretty obvious to me: the TV situation.  That money dried up and so did any flexibility the FO had.  I'm not sure they had the greenlight to add much of any payroll.  We're seeing the pretty obvious consequences of that - an already thin pitching staff is completely sapped right now and reinforcements don't appear to be coming.

I've told my kids many times. If you don't understand why something is happening... follow the money. The Answer is usually somewhere in that vicinity. 

I sure don't understand two years of deadline tepidness so I know where I'd start looking for the answer. 

The TV money... Yeah... I can see that... but it doesn't explain last year entirely. Correa along with Vazquez and Gallo was a pretty significant uptick that might have explained last year as well. 

[TheLeviathan]

1 hour ago, Riverbrian said:

I've told my kids many times. If you don't understand why something is happening... follow the money. The Answer is usually somewhere in that vicinity. 

I sure don't understand two years of deadline tepidness so I know where I'd start looking for the answer. 

The TV money... Yeah... I can see that... but it doesn't explain last year entirely. Correa along with Vazquez and Gallo was a pretty significant uptick that might have explained last year as well. 

It explains the trade deadline last year through now though....

[HerbieFan]

They gave up next to nothing, but the guy is no better than Josh Staumont had been.  A head scratcher to be sure.

[Doctor Wu]

21 hours ago, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

It's especially frustrating when we were told that the Twins had one of the strongest bull pens in the AL at the beginning of the season.

Yeah, that optimism/hype didn't last too long, did it? Okay, the injuries have hurt, but we just didn't have much quality depth, and still don't.

[Doctor Wu]

12 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

It's not even about money for me. 

Just bring someone who can help. Someone who can deepen the squad. We still have to get through August and September with health and I'll bet anyone that we won't. 

There were players who moved at the deadline that could have helped us that were not necessarily expensive in terms of payroll. Prospect cost of course but not major financial hits. At least not for this year. 

They were rumored to be in on Kikuchi. A Rental that would have added 4 million to the payroll. So if we believe the rumors... they were able to add 4 million more. We were rumored to be in on Fedde. That's about 3 Million this year and 7 million next year so they were willing to tack on 7 million for next year. 

We didn't even need to spend that much. 

Tanner Scott would have been a great addition. A Rental around 2 million. 

Gregory Soto has been really average for Philadelphia and he has been brutal with the Orioles since the trade deadline but I would have taken a shot on his huge left handed arm. Around 2 Million remaining this season and his final year of arb next year. 

Chafin was a 2 million dollar rental. 

On the right side of the bullpen Erceg is making the minimum with 5 years of control. 

I would have loved to have added Bryan De La Cruz. He's making the minimum with 3 years of control to come. 

Danny Jansen would have cost a couple of million as a rental. Paredes would have cost a couple million with 3 years of control in the following years. Jazz Chisolm would have been less than a million with 2 more arb years. Arozarena would have cost about 3 million this year with two arb years to come. 

I don't know what happened during the course of trade exploration phone calls but to come away basically blank for two years in a row is very strange. Something, Someone for some reason is holding them back. 

 

I think there were several good options, and most of them would not have hurt us financially or forced us to give up a top prospect. But as usual the front office waited too long (hoping for what?) until nearly every potentially helpful pitcher was off the board, and then they make this last minute/hour puzzling trade for Richards. Very discouraging.

[Major League Ready]

11 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

I've told my kids many times. If you don't understand why something is happening... follow the money. The Answer is usually somewhere in that vicinity. 

I sure don't understand two years of deadline tepidness so I know where I'd start looking for the answer. 

The TV money... Yeah... I can see that... but it doesn't explain last year entirely. Correa along with Vazquez and Gallo was a pretty significant uptick that might have explained last year as well. 

The couple million dollars is irrelevant.  Putting a good product on the field more often drives viewership an attendance as well as brand loyalty.  Trading assets that produce for 6 years for assets that produce for a couple months does not promote sustained success.  It's always about money but your interpretation of the value proposition is a microcosm of the financial picture.  Producing a good product more often will have monumentally more impact than spending 2 or $3M dollars in a given year.  

[August J Gloop]

17 hours ago, Nick Nelson said:

The idea that they're trying to "develop" a 31-year-old pitcher and 7-year MLB veteran in two months while in the thick of championship contention is an amazing stretch of logic, but you're entitled to your opinion! 

Like, how does this even make sense to you as you type it? Do you think that MLB players just reach a point in their careers and just stop trying to get better? They're like nope. 7 Years in. I'm who I am. No changes here.

Let's compromise though and replace the word 'develop' with 'refine'. They're trying to refine his approach so that they can get 3-4 weeks of maximal output during key post season innings. Namely the 6th innings in SWR and ZebbyFest starts.  

Richards has averaged 9.8 K/9 for his MLB career. At St Paul this year there are Two guys who appear to be A) Healthy, B) Younger than Richards, C) Not already appeared on the big league roster and D) with more K/9 at AAA than Richards has had in MLB. 

Jordy Blaze and Ryan Jensen. We know why Blaze isn't up. Jensen is walking almost 9 per 9, so nope. 

If you still think it can't be explained, then you are just being willfully ignorant to keep redirecting your anger with the ownership at the front office who are trying to make it work.  

 

[DJL44]

1 minute ago, August J Gloop said:

Let's compromise though and replace the word 'develop' with 'refine'. They're trying to refine his approach so that they can get 3-4 weeks of maximal output during key post season innings.

That sounds a whole lot classier than turd polishing.

[August J Gloop]

3 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

That sounds a whole lot classier than turd polishing.

I mean sure, call a human being a turd just cuz he's not who you would pick up in a trade. 

[LambchoP]

Everyone knew the Twins needed pitching if we were to be a legit playoff contender. Apparently the brass doesn't think we're there yet. Did anyone actually believe the BS they said? "Oh, money wasn't an issue, we could have gotten anyone we wanted, just nothing came together." Really? We were the ONLY team that couldn't find a way too improve lol? Richards was just a last minute PR move so twins fans wouldn't riot and boycott the rest of the season....

Move Varland and Winder back to the pen. Demote or DFA Okert and probably Richards. That'd be a start. Hector Norris can be had for the major league minimum. That could be a low risk move too. At this point why not?

[Riverbrian]

11 minutes ago, Doctor Wu said:

I think there were several good options, and most of them would not have hurt us financially or forced us to give up a top prospect. But as usual the front office waited too long (hoping for what?) until nearly every potentially helpful pitcher was off the board, and then they make this last minute/hour puzzling trade for Richards. Very discouraging.

It's hard for me to criticize the process without knowing it.

All I can do is be disappointed in the result two years in a row without knowing exactly how it didn't work out for what I wanted.      

I can type buyers buy all I want and I'll continue to type it because I believe it but I don't know what teams were asking when it comes to any of the trade discussions that the Twins were having with teams. If teams were insistent on Festa for example and not moving off of Festa in discussions. I'm probably going home empty.

I'm not trading Festa for a rental no matter how many times I type buyers buy. 

I simply don't know... I'm not willing to hang anyone for my disappointment without knowing...  but it's odd that other teams were able to get deals done in the past two years and the Twins came up empty two years in a row. 

Will the lack of action cost us this season. Who knows? We could have traded for Jazz Chisholm, Tarik Skubal and Tanner Scott and still miss the playoffs. We could do nothing like we did and go on a 20 game winning streak. I thought we needed offense at the trade deadline last year. In the playoffs last year... offense was probably what brought us down. Does that make me right? It does not because it doesn't mean that a satisfactory offensive addition would have been the difference in the playoffs.  

The trade deadline is the last outpost to resupply on the Oregon Trail. For that reason, I think it's important to pick up supplies. However, just because you didn't pick up a chamber pot doesn't mean you can't relieve yourself in the woods. And... And... Just because you picked up a chamber pot, doesn't mean it won't fall into the river when the wagon tips over.   

The only thing that I'm reasonably sure of.

It isn't just a matter of waiting for Correa, Buxton and Ryan to get back so we can show that we have the team RIGHT NOW and don't need anyone. Correa, Buxton and Ryan just might come back and be available for our playoff hopes and dreams but I'm willing to bet that someone else or someone else plural will go down (maybe even Correa or Buxton again) and not be available come playoff time and that's why the extra supplies are a good idea.  

Anyway... I'm disappointed that we didn't pick up a chamber pot but I'm still on the wagon heading west. I hope I know what Poison Ivy looks like. 

 

 

[August J Gloop]

2 minutes ago, LambchoP said:

Move Varland and Winder back to the pen. Demote or DFA Okert and probably Richards. That'd be a start. Hector Norris can be had for the major league minimum. That could be a low risk move too. At this point why not?

Winder and Varland will definitely be in the pen.

Hector Neris is a homophobic clubhouse cancer who throws at batters in the middle of close games. To say nothing of the fact that he's been worse this year than Okert and Richards who you want to DFA. I'm gonna say that's why not.

[laloesch]

31 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

It's hard for me to criticize the process without knowing it.

All I can do is be disappointed in the result two years in a row without knowing exactly how it didn't work out for what I wanted.      

I can type buyers buy all I want and I'll continue to type it because I believe it but I don't know what teams were asking when it comes to any of the trade discussions that the Twins were having with teams. If teams were insistent on Festa for example and not moving off of Festa in discussions. I'm probably going home empty.

I'm not trading Festa for a rental no matter how many times I type buyers buy. 

 

If that is whom teams were insisting on asking for (Festa) in a trade I would have walked away as well, unless it was part of a deal for a frontline starter.  Anything less, no.

[Riverbrian]

5 minutes ago, laloesch said:

If that is whom teams were insisting on asking for (Festa) in a trade I would have walked away as well, unless it was part of a deal for a frontline starter.  Anything less, no.

Agreed... We just don't know what was being asked? We don't know how the Marlins felt about what the Padres were offering compared to what the Twins were willing to part with? 

The trade deadline has to be more complicated than simply walking into a Hy-Vee and grabbing a can of Progresso Soup off the shelf. 

[Mike Sixel]

No one was good as Festa was traded. That's a bunk excuse. 

[Mike Sixel]

How has not trading for guys worked under this ownership? One series win in over two decades....

[USAFChief]

51 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

It's hard for me to criticize the process without knowing it.

All I can do is be disappointed in the result two years in a row without knowing exactly how it didn't work out for what I wanted.      

I can type buyers buy all I want and I'll continue to type it because I believe it but I don't know what teams were asking when it comes to any of the trade discussions that the Twins were having with teams. If teams were insistent on Festa for example and not moving off of Festa in discussions. I'm probably going home empty.

I'm not trading Festa for a rental no matter how many times I type buyers buy. 

I simply don't know... I'm not willing to hang anyone for my disappointment without knowing...  but it's odd that other teams were able to get deals done in the past two years and the Twins came up empty two years in a row. 

Will the lack of action cost us this season. Who knows? We could have traded for Jazz Chisholm, Tarik Skubal and Tanner Scott and still miss the playoffs. We could do nothing like we did and go on a 20 game winning streak. I thought we needed offense at the trade deadline last year. In the playoffs last year... offense was probably what brought us down. Does that make me right? It does not because it doesn't mean that a satisfactory offensive addition would have been the difference in the playoffs.  

The trade deadline is the last outpost to resupply on the Oregon Trail. For that reason, I think it's important to pick up supplies. However, just because you didn't pick up a chamber pot doesn't mean you can't relieve yourself in the woods. And... And... Just because you picked up a chamber pot, doesn't mean it won't fall into the river when the wagon tips over.   

The only thing that I'm reasonably sure of.

It isn't just a matter of waiting for Correa, Buxton and Ryan to get back so we can show that we have the team RIGHT NOW and don't need anyone. Correa, Buxton and Ryan just might come back and be available for our playoff hopes and dreams but I'm willing to bet that someone else or someone else plural will go down (maybe even Correa or Buxton again) and not be available come playoff time and that's why the extra supplies are a good idea.  

Anyway... I'm disappointed that we didn't pick up a chamber pot but I'm still on the wagon heading west. I hope I know what Poison Ivy looks like. 

 

 

Except we know that none of the teams that made deadline deals gave up highly rated prospects. I guess you could make the case Houston gave up a pitcher in a similar, but lower universe as Festa.

So I don't think "too expensive in prospects" makes much sense, particularly for relief help.

Arizona got AJ Puk (11 IP, 8 baserunners and 1 run allowed) for 2 guys not even in their OWN  top 10.

 

 

 

[Riverbrian]

6 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Agreed... We just don't know what was being asked? We don't know how the Marlins felt about what the Padres were offering compared to what the Twins were willing to part with? 

The trade deadline has to be more complicated than simply walking into a Hy-Vee and grabbing a can of Progresso Soup off the shelf. 

It's not an excuse. 

It's a made up example out of my head to make a point that I have no idea what was happening on the other end of the phone in an office that none of us have access to. 

I hope you didn't think I brought up Festa claiming that Festa WAS THE ASK!!! 

 

[Craig Arko]

59 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

I hope I know what Poison Ivy looks like. 

 

Uma Thurman.

[August J Gloop]

15 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

No one was good as Festa was traded. That's a bunk excuse. 

The padres gave up their #2,4,5 and 25 prospects for Tanner Scott. Their GM is taking a huge gamble on an impending free agent. I know that doesn't really translate to Twins since none of those guys are even MLB top 100, but still all that for a few innings of a good lefty? Nah. 

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, August J Gloop said:

The padres gave up their #2,4,5 and 25 prospects for Tanner Scott. Their GM is taking a huge gamble on an impending free agent. I know that doesn't really translate to Twins since none of those guys are even MLB top 100, but still all that for a few innings of a good lefty? Nah. 

Zero top 100 prospects were dealt. And, that's one trade. What about all the other trades? Year after year we're told every other team making deals is wrong.... Every. Other. Team. Can't be wrong.