This Second Half Feels Pivotal for the Twins Franchise From a Big-Picture Perspective

[Jocko87]

3 hours ago, bean5302 said:

I think ownership will be ready for him to move on from Falvey rather than the opposite case. Ownership was pretty pointed last year the bar was raised in terms of expectations on the field, and they didn't extend him after the playoffs last year. Falvey is on an expiring contract along with Thad Levine, who couldn't even secure a 2nd round interview with the Red Sox this past offseason.

All in all, Falvey's got a pretty good gig. Mid market payroll, low fanbase expectations, nice facilities, good location. Not sure where he'd move on up to? San Francisco, maybe San Diego? Lots of competition for those roles.

Falvey would have 20+ teams interested in his services. 

The baseball operations are not the problem here.

[USAFChief]

7 hours ago, Jocko87 said:

I'd bet maybe 5% of all fans have a view even remotely close to the Gleeman summation and many of those have it because of him. 

I'll take that bet.

 

[CCHOF5yearstoolate]

4 hours ago, DJL44 said:

That's the problem. To get the games you need to buy a variety of streaming services.

The free options are very easy, for what it's worth. 

[Blyleven2011]

4 hours ago, Whitey333 said:

Great article.  I agree with it.  They have done such a poor public relations job just this past year alone.  The TV debacle has been going on fir at least 4 years.  Every couple of months they tell us it will be fixed.  But here we go again.  Plus they pretty much pushed 40 year anniuncer Dick Bremer out the door and try to tell us he retired.  Whether you like Bremer or not a man that has spent 40 years in the TV booth should be allowed to pretty much go out on his own.  Then cutting payroll telling us there was no money coming from Bally Sports.  Then getting money from Bally and not investing it back into the team.  Closing the upper  bowl of sears the first several games thus making some people pay more to sit in more expensive seats.  The giveaways this year have been a joke.  Many times the freebies are only given to the first 5000 fans.  Sometimes 10000 fans.  How do you explain to your grandsons that even though you were nearly one hour early to get the freebies they were out and they couldn't get one?  It used to be thousands more.  Not to mention over $200 for the game.  It's a good thing the team is playing well or who cares?

It would be nice if the twins would listen to the real fans of the club ...

There is so many ways to draw the hard core fans and even casual fans to attend the games  ...

The real fans are the older generation  , the younger generation  goes to party , watch all the scoreboards  and don't watch the product on the field ...

There are so many ways to promote the twins product  ...

Have a Harmon killebrew day , Oliva  , carew  , kaat , puckett and blyleven day ...

All these players are HOF players and we're well respected , your grandson will ask who was killebrew and your reply should be that the killer was the most prolific homerun hitter in twins history and feared by opposing pitchers during his career  , watch that grandsons eyes light up when he hears this ...

I would go to more games if they had days where we would honor our heros ...

[Jocko87]

1 hour ago, USAFChief said:

I'll take that bet.

 

Bet.  Remember its a big bad world out there outside of Twins Twitterati and Twins Daily.

The fans they need don't give two red craps about what the hardos say.

[RpR]

42 minutes ago, Blyleven2011 said:

There are so many ways to promote the twins product  ...

Apologize for removing WALLY the BEER MAN and bring others to replace him.

[Jocko87]

12 hours ago, Nick Nelson said:

Much is riding on the next two and a half months. The future of the Twins franchise could be greatly influenced by how things play out. No pressure or anything, boys.

But what if the upside is becoming a national darling?  The reframe is that the local market doesn't matter, so sorry Minnesota dweebs.  Apologies, you do matter, you really kinda do, congrats.  The real prize is being a nationally recognized consistent winner.  All the moneys come then.

What if the real goal is something none of you have considered?

Downside is basically what we have now.  Which is pretty dang good, regardless of Gleeman's price to value calculations.  I still wonder if he complains the chef didn't spend enough to make his MSG chicken.  Sports are weird.

[Mark G]

9 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

What a bunch of doom and gloom - and for no reason.

Sure, payroll will fall next year, as it should.  Farmer, Kepler, Santana and Margot will be gone and replaced by Lee, Julien, Wallner and one other (take your pick between Kiriloff, Rodriguez, or someone else). Plenty of money left over for some extensions. Next year’s lineup with those guys, Lewis, Miranda, Castro, Correa, Buxton, Jeffers, Ryan, Lopez, SWR, Ober, one or two of our young starters and Duran, Jax and Alcala leading the pen is a GREAT lineup.
 

This team will not only win, but be more exciting to watch.  Also, the tv deal will get resolved. The combination of those three will drive an increase in attendance.  Also, if we get inflation to moderate, that would give fans a little more disposable income to spend on seeing the Twins.

The gloomy continuous drivel about ownership’s supposed penury is just nauseating. I know for a fact the franchise loses upwards of tens of millions on a cash basis every year (and, yes, the equity value increases might be equal to or exceed those losses, but cash is cash).  The Twins are actually a pretty well run, classy organization,  If you don’t like it, either go make several billion yourself and buy the team, or just quit being a fan.

I for one think the future is bright and the team’s long term plan is shaping up nicely - and the team continues to be competitive as it does.

I can only quote the great philosopher, and all around man of the world........Billy Joel:

"You may be wrong for all I know, but you may be right".  🤔

I think the point of the article was this may be the moment in time we find out.  

[Mark G]

2 hours ago, Jocko87 said:

But what if the upside is becoming a national darling?  The reframe is that the local market doesn't matter, so sorry Minnesota dweebs.  Apologies, you do matter, you really kinda do, congrats.  The real prize is being a nationally recognized consistent winner.  All the moneys come then.

What if the real goal is something none of you have considered?

Downside is basically what we have now.  Which is pretty dang good, regardless of Gleeman's price to value calculations.  I still wonder if he complains the chef didn't spend enough to make his MSG chicken.  Sports are weird.

So was this post.  I love it when you post, you have a good track record, but I am not sure what you are trying to say this time.  Not a criticism, just curious.  🙃

[Major League Ready]

13 hours ago, Original_JB said:

if you have a subscription....

Not exactly sure I understand your point.  Regional sports on cable TV are going away.  It's a dying model.  Streaming services are a lower cost alternative to cable.  

[Major League Ready]

What if they would have kept Polanco and had signed Montgomery and Hoskins.  Those were the three most common wants as I recall.  Would attendance be up?  As fans should we be happy with a better team and a brighter future or should we prefer they spent more money?  

[Karbo]

12 hours ago, DJL44 said:

They're on TV on Sunday!

Where on Sunday? What service?

[Peter]

Future is looking great for twins!!! How can anyone be negative about them!!! FO must know something rest of us don’t know in cutting payroll and still have competitive team that will win division and hopefully another World Series!!! I love this team!!! Just hate the one games/losses and big city national media. Go Twins!!!

[DJL44]

1 hour ago, Karbo said:

Where on Sunday? What service?

https://www.mlb.com/live-stream-games/help-center/subscription-access-mlb-on-the-roku-channel

[Fire Dan Gladden]

Nelson is right.  Gleeman is right.

Don't confuse the success the Twins are having this year with the financial decisions made by ownership.  The Twins are having success this year in spite of ownership, not because of it.  They are beating up on the terrible teams and getting killed by the good teams.  This is not a recipe for long term success.

I have been yelling since last Fall that I don't understand why the Twins fans aren't revolting because of the public decisions being made by ownership.  I guess they are... The Twins are not on television and game attendance is down.  This means less fans are watching, or caring about, the product.  How anybody does not see this as a problem is beyond me.  

[wabene]

12 hours ago, Jocko87 said:

Bet.  Remember its a big bad world out there outside of Twins Twitterati and Twins Daily.

The fans they need don't give two red craps about what the hardos say.

I'm having a hard time deciphering this post. I'm guessing you consider Gleeman a hardo? I would describe him as informed and balanced. He is not afraid to criticize those that he shares hallways with daily. I respect that. If anything sometimes he is a Twins Bobo such as with his great esteem for Festa.

I didn't need Gleeman's opinions to become dumbfounded by Twins management this off-season. Spending aside, the messaging was oddly self-destructive. I am enjoying this team and have followed this franchise through thick and thin. The vast majority are not as devoted and the indisputable attendance numbers suggest the vast majority agree with Gleeman's hard line on management.

[LA Vikes Fan]

17 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

What a bunch of doom and gloom - and for no reason.

Sure, payroll will fall next year, as it should.  Farmer, Kepler, Santana and Margot will be gone and replaced by Lee, Julien, Wallner and one other (take your pick between Kiriloff, Rodriguez, or someone else). Plenty of money left over for some extensions. Next year’s lineup with those guys, Lewis, Miranda, Castro, Correa, Buxton, Jeffers, Ryan, Lopez, SWR, Ober, one or two of our young starters and Duran, Jax and Alcala leading the pen is a GREAT lineup.
 

This team will not only win, but be more exciting to watch.  Also, the tv deal will get resolved. The combination of those three will drive an increase in attendance.  Also, if we get inflation to moderate, that would give fans a little more disposable income to spend on seeing the Twins.

The gloomy continuous drivel about ownership’s supposed penury is just nauseating. I know for a fact the franchise loses upwards of tens of millions on a cash basis every year (and, yes, the equity value increases might be equal to or exceed those losses, but cash is cash).  The Twins are actually a pretty well run, classy organization,  If you don’t like it, either go make several billion yourself and buy the team, or just quit being a fan.

I for one think the future is bright and the team’s long term plan is shaping up nicely - and the team continues to be competitive as it does.

I couldn’t decide whether to like or hate this. You make good points about the team being fun with a good competitive window. I can’t speak to what’s going on in the Twin Cities economically since I live in Southern California but it is a bit of a surprise that attendance is down. It may just be a timing issue. Now that they’re playing better they may draw much better in the second half. 
 

My outside observation is that the issue is probably a combination of the lack of television exposure and poor marketing. TV really drives engagement for casual and younger fans. You see an exciting game on TV and you want to go be part of it. Frankly, that’s not the Twins fault. The Diamond Sports/RSN debacle is a classic case of a a poor management team that could not adapt to a changing market. The trying to hang on in bankruptcy just to squeeze a few bucks is kind of pathetic to watch. It’s being driven bye the big investors and bondholders of a failed enterprise and the Twins are caught in the middle. MLB has been very little help. They’ve got weight, throw it around on behalf of the teams, don’t just sit back and aid investors. Protect your product. As a lawyer it’s hard to watch without getting angry. 

You do have to blame the team for some pretty poor marketing. First, you don’t come off a good season and announce that you’re cutting  payroll. You may wind up doing that but you sure as heck don’t signal it’s coming. Second , do they really limit the giveaways to the first 5000 people? I’ve heard that when I watch the game from MLB TV but it didn’t register. I go to all the different sports here in LA and if there is a giveaway, everybody gets one. It’s not very much money folks. My grandson has a backpack with Lakers pins attached to it. I got those for free, didn’t want them, I gave them to him. Closing off the Upper deck seats - what the hell! If you can’t sell them, give them away to little leagues, kids that get good grades, volunteers, anybody like that. I really do wonder about the Twins marketing department.

[DJL44]

1 hour ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

Second , do they really limit the giveaways to the first 5000 people? 

The Rubik's cube on Sunday is limited to 5000 but everyone's going home with a free night light on Tuesday!

[Road trip]

This may be a case where both sides can be right, depending on how you are interpreting the question.  It's another short term vs long term strategy issue.

Short term, the Twins are plenty competitive this year.  They have assembled a team that is fun to watch, have rising stars, a productive minor league system, and project to make the playoffs, where anything can happen even if they won't be favorites.  They are winning some important battles compared to rival franchises.

Longer term, attendance is poor and dropping, payroll is unlikely to grow next year, the young stars will start to get more expensive soon (I believe Castro, Jeffers, Larnach, Ober, Ryan, Duran, Jax all go to arbitration this winter...I might be wrong on one or two, may have missed one or two), and local tv remains a critical problem to be solved, both for the fan interest and direct revenue it generates.  At best, local tv looks to grade out at about a "C", compared to the massive revenue streams of the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, etc.  These are some long term problems, and winning the war to become a consistent contender is very uncertain.

[bean5302]

19 hours ago, Jocko87 said:

Falvey would have 20+ teams interested in his services. 

The baseball operations are not the problem here.

Yeahhhhhhhhhhh. Keep dreaming. When Falvey's #2 can't even make it past round 1 interviews for the Red Sox, you get a pretty clear picture on how teams feel about the Twins' executive management.

[bean5302]

1 hour ago, DJL44 said:

The Rubik's cube on Sunday is limited to 5000 but everyone's going home with a free night light on Tuesday!

Anybody willing to get to the game 2hrs early has a 25% chance of getting a $2 Rubik's cube!

[Brandon]

Hopefully the Twins can get a dual deal, 1 with cable and 1 with streaming for totals that get them close to where they were and as a result the Twins boost payroll next year to the 150 million range.  That would go a long way to fixing their image I think 🤔 

[Major League Ready]

1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

Yeahhhhhhhhhhh. Keep dreaming. When Falvey's #2 can't even make it past round 1 interviews for the Red Sox, you get a pretty clear picture on how teams feel about the Twins' executive management.

There was an article a couple months ago where teams were polled on how they rate other FOs?  I don't remember exactly where the Twin's rated but 8th is stuck in my mind.  

[Jeff K]

On 7/19/2024 at 4:06 PM, bean5302 said:

I think ownership will be ready for him to move on from Falvey rather than the opposite case. Ownership was pretty pointed last year the bar was raised in terms of expectations on the field, and they didn't extend him after the playoffs last year. Falvey is on an expiring contract along with Thad Levine, who couldn't even secure a 2nd round interview with the Red Sox this past offseason.

All in all, Falvey's got a pretty good gig. Mid market payroll, low fanbase expectations, nice facilities, good location. Not sure where he'd move on up to? San Francisco, maybe San Diego? Lots of competition for those roles.

I think you are quite wrong.  Falvey is winning in a medium sized market and has, overall, made the Twins better than when he got there.  Take a look at the minor leagues and the Twins have reinforcements on the way and legitimate depth.  Falvey is a good get for MANY organizations.

[Major League Ready]

2 hours ago, Road trip said:

This may be a case where both sides can be right, depending on how you are interpreting the question.  It's another short term vs long term strategy issue.

Short term, the Twins are plenty competitive this year.  They have assembled a team that is fun to watch, have rising stars, a productive minor league system, and project to make the playoffs, where anything can happen even if they won't be favorites.  They are winning some important battles compared to rival franchises.

Longer term, attendance is poor and dropping, payroll is unlikely to grow next year, the young stars will start to get more expensive soon (I believe Castro, Jeffers, Larnach, Ober, Ryan, Duran, Jax all go to arbitration this winter...I might be wrong on one or two, may have missed one or two), and local tv remains a critical problem to be solved, both for the fan interest and direct revenue it generates.  At best, local tv looks to grade out at about a "C", compared to the massive revenue streams of the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, etc.  These are some long term problems, and winning the war to become a consistent contender is very uncertain.

The Wolves and Wild TV deal just expired.  This is a great opportunity for them to collaborate on a solution which would serve Minnesota sports fans far better than a baseball only service.  A few people brought up the failed Victory sports model last spring but that was a far different time.  There are a multitude of ways to distribute the product now and fans are more than ready to participate.   It seems plausible that far greater accessibility could lead to equivalent revenue but that remains to be seen.  What will happen starting next year is greater availability and I doubt we see any form of blackouts.

[wabene]

9 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

There was an article a couple months ago where teams were polled on how they rate other FOs?  I don't remember exactly where the Twin's rated but 8th is stuck in my mind.  

Yes and there have been many coaches and developmental staff poached by other teams. This is a new development with this FO and speaks well of them. I don't think it is realistic to think owners who still employ Dave St Peter will dump Falvey. They have been loyal to a fault and you have to acknowledge the overall improvement of this organization under Falvey. The areas where the Twins have, IMO failed, are under the jurisdiction of ownership and Mr St Peter.

[DJL44]

55 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

What will happen starting next year is greater availability and I doubt we see any form of blackouts.

[bean5302]

1 hour ago, Major League Ready said:

There was an article a couple months ago where teams were polled on how they rate other FOs?  I don't remember exactly where the Twin's rated but 8th is stuck in my mind.  

The poll was primarily about culture and atmosphere.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5424700/2024/04/24/mlb-front-office-rankings/?source=pulsenewsletter&campaign=9595872&userId=211750

If the Twins have such a great front office, why can't Levine find a job? He's been interviewing... This homer BS gets old.

[Jocko87]

7 hours ago, wabene said:

I'm having a hard time deciphering this post. I'm guessing you consider Gleeman a hardo? I would describe him as informed and balanced. He is not afraid to criticize those that he shares hallways with daily. I respect that. If anything sometimes he is a Twins Bobo such as with his great esteem for Festa.

I didn't need Gleeman's opinions to become dumbfounded by Twins management this off-season. Spending aside, the messaging was oddly self-destructive. I am enjoying this team and have followed this franchise through thick and thin. The vast majority are not as devoted and the indisputable attendance numbers suggest the vast majority agree with Gleeman's hard line on management.

I don't disagree, he does have significant credibility for the reasons you mention.  He's very balanced on baseball issues.  I'm a dedicated listener and patron.

Unfortunately, he has an enormous blind spot for payroll, finance, business operations and the like. He's not shy about it, he often brags about how dysfunctional he is.  When he discusses these issues, all rationality goes out the windows and he becomes 20 year old AGLipshiz calling in to KFAN.  Yet he still acts with the same certainty as topics he understands. It's a problem. He has a platform and sets narrative now.

As a business man myself, I completely understand why he would get some dirty looks in the hallway.  I don't know how sensitive the Twins are, but if you talk about me like that, presenting facts I know you don't have, we have a problem.

Now that we are halfway through the season, the front office is looking better by the day.  We don't have to like it, but to rate a front office on moves made to "excite" TD is silly. Moves not made are looking pretty good right now. He should probably acknowledge that.

[ashbury]

The Twins' problems in their market go a lot deeper than what may happen in the standings during a particular half-season.  Playing winning baseball is a zero-sum game for the sport overall anyway - only a few teams each year would be financially viable if that were really the key to success.

Fixing the telecast situation would be first and foremost on the list of remedies.  TV should be the centerpiece of how they market their team, and the revenue it brings in is nice but is nearly incidental to the bigger picture if it gets in the way of marketing.

The Pohlads are coming dangerously close to running their franchise into the ditch.  Can't draw 2 million?  Warning lights are flashing.

An August and September of winning baseball certainly would be welcome, though.  The window of contention is Right Now.  That's a bit independent of the long-term franchise health.