This Free Agent Pitcher is the Solution to Twins' Anthony DeSclafani Injury

[DJL44]

3 hours ago, Fatbat said:

If we are going down that road, why not ride a thoroughbred in Monty instead of any broken down SPx. 

I doubt the Twins would put in a bid for Montgomery that is higher than what the Red Sox have already offered.

[sampleSizeOfOne]

I give up.

 

How does a free agent pitcher cure DeSclafani's Injury?

[old nurse]

2 hours ago, Cody Pirkl said:

I think you'll have to show your work on both counts to win me over. The Vazquez/Jeffers split pretty much always had more to do with the handedness of the opposing pitcher and/or how many days one caught in a row. 

Julien was pretty much always sitting as a result of the handedness of the opposing pitcher aside from from being lifted in late and close games for defensive purposes. 

Sonny Gray was the only groundball pitcher in the rotation last year, and Julien and Jeffers played when he pitched plenty. Look no further than the playoffs when the games counted the most and they both started when Sonny pitched.

Whether or not a pitcher is on a prospect list doesn’t mean unchanged anymore. Pablo Lopez and Bailey Ober were not any lists. Neither was Jax. Duran made 96 and Ryan was about that. Dylan Bundy was a top 20. Prospect.  A lot of pitchers have been slower developers.  That doesn’t mean SWR will develop or for that matter won’t develop. 

[Cody Pirkl]

8 minutes ago, old nurse said:

Whether or not a pitcher is on a prospect list doesn’t mean unchanged anymore. Pablo Lopez and Bailey Ober were not any lists. Neither was Jax. Duran made 96 and Ryan was about that. Dylan Bundy was a top 20. Prospect.  A lot of pitchers have been slower developers.  That doesn’t mean SWR will develop or for that matter won’t develop. 

How about their performances that determine whether they're on prospect lists? There's a reason Woods-Richardson was MLB.com's #24th ranked Twins prospect, and why Headrick isn't on the list at all for example. They both had near 5 ERAs in St. Paul last year and their underlying numbers weren't much better. There's a reason Dallas Keuchel was pitching for us last season. They didn't have anyone in Triple-A that looked like they could compete in the MLB. They have to be successful in the minors before they're even considered for the MLB roster.

 

[Major League Ready]

5 hours ago, Karbo said:

I believe that answer is yes, they are ready, at least they better be!

I am not as sure as you.  SWR and Festa did not look close to ready last year.  Canterino is certainly not ready right now but might make a contribution late.  One of these guys might be ready if we get lucky and don't need injury replacements until the middle of June or July.   I just don't believe in Headrick, Winder or Sands and definitely don't believe in Dobnak.  Sands might make a decent RP one day.  I would like to see them sign someone and Lorenzen looks like the best option.  

[JD-TWINS]

11 hours ago, Brett said:

We’re asking a lot of Paddack and Varland to make 30 starts each, based on their respective track records. We’ll need at least 8 starters over the course of the year, not counting the doubleheader specials. Thinking of people we can honestly see making 5-10 starts each…Festa and SWR, sure. Then who? Canterino?

Pretty sure Canterino is now hurt.

Varland 125 innings…….Paddack 125 innings (25 starts each) ……Ober 160 innings………Ryan 170 innings ……..Lopez 190 innings……= 770 innings

SWR …….45 innings & Festa …..,,45 innings.

That’s 860 starter innings…..probably would like to get to 925-950 total. That leaves 530 innings for 10-11 bullpen arms.

This is based on perfect starter health for the most part. Highly unlikely. Also, there’s 60-75 innings for starters that are not attached to anyone - unaccounted for at this point.

Lorenzen could be an answer. Can’t imagine doing more than 1 year for $7-$8M maximum.

Anybody here about Dallas working out & looking for a job? Could be those 5-6 starts in July-August that we’ll need.

[darin617]

Pretty sure Lorenzen is still demanding a 2 year deal. So most likely looking for 17-20M still. His agent is playing chicken with all the pitching hungry teams and waiting for another injury to make some team bite the bullet on a 2 year deal.

How do these pitchers think they will be ready to pitch before early to mid May without any spring training?

[RpR]

12 minutes ago, darin617 said:

Pretty sure Lorenzen is still demanding a 2 year deal. So most likely looking for 17-20M still. His agent is playing chicken with all the pitching hungry teams and waiting for another injury to make some team bite the bullet on a 2 year deal.

How do these pitchers think they will be ready to pitch before early to mid May without any spring training?

https://baseballdudes.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Baseball-Dudes-Off-Season-Throwing-Program.pdf

"To be one of the best at this game takes a lot of hard work and dedication. Every professional pitcher heads into their off season with a plan. Their plan will include a strength and conditioning program and more importantly, a throwing program. A professional pitcher headed into an off season without a plan is a pitcher who will not be 100% prepared when he heads to spring training. By not being fully prepared, they are setting themselves up for failure. The competition at that level is like nothing you will see at the youth level. Every pitcher you see there was the best on their team, best in their state and maybe one of the best in the country. "

[old nurse]

7 hours ago, Cody Pirkl said:

How about their performances that determine whether they're on prospect lists? There's a reason Woods-Richardson was MLB.com's #24th ranked Twins prospect, and why Headrick isn't on the list at all for example. They both had near 5 ERAs in St. Paul last year and their underlying numbers weren't much better. There's a reason Dallas Keuchel was pitching for us last season. They didn't have anyone in Triple-A that looked like they could compete in the MLB. They have to be successful in the minors before they're even considered for the MLB roster.

 

You did not read one of your boss’s infrequent posts?

You did not really see my point, either. Please feel free to find a recent study of pitcher rankings and success 

[Mike Sixel]

9 hours ago, howeda7 said:

The issue is not Varland. It's Paddock. We have no idea how good he will be or how many innings he can realistically throw. You need 8 starters to get through a season and we have about 4.5 at the moment. SWR might be OK. Festa's a reach for 2024 IMO. Then what? Dobnak? They should 100% sign Lorenzen or Clevinger. It's borderline malpractice not to.

How many good pitchers do you think most teams have? I think people are unrealistic of they expect anyone past the sixth starter to be even close to good

[CrusherDoescher]

If the Twins are worried about adding to the payroll they should take a minimum risk on Trevor Bauer. He is ready to sign on a low contract to prove himself. After what he has gone through he knows he has to change. It wouldn’t cost the Twins much at all. They have wasted lots more money and lost players on worse deals. 

[laloesch]

23 hours ago, Cody Pirkl said:

"Prospect" has a pretty broad definition. The only pitcher in Triple-A even close to a top prospect is David Festa who threw 12 innings there last year. If you want to argue he deserves a shot at some point in 2024, I'd agree but I don't think it'd help him if he gets forced up in April or May. 

I don't really understand wanting to trust SWR based on a few spring innings, or Brent Headrick at all. Those two were really bad last year.

I agree.  I don't understand the fascination here with SWR.  He was not good last year in AAA. If anything I'd say his numbers were mediocre at best.  I'd rather get a couple of starts from Festa who I think has wayyyy more upside than SWR, but even his AAA experience is very limited.  More of a mid season callup if the Twins are desperate for starting pitching depth.  Raya is a ways off still.

[laloesch]

22 hours ago, howeda7 said:

The issue is not Varland. It's Paddock. We have no idea how good he will be or how many innings he can realistically throw. You need 8 starters to get through a season and we have about 4.5 at the moment. SWR might be OK. Festa's a reach for 2024 IMO. Then what? Dobnak? They should 100% sign Lorenzen or Clevinger. It's borderline malpractice not to.

I doubt SWR will be ok.  His minor league numbers are not good.  Relying on him as the first backup to the rotation should anyone else go down is a scary prospect if you ask me.  Festa has far more potential but he's only got 12 innings at the AAA level.  Probably more of a midseason callup if they need him.

[howeda7]

15 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

How many good pitchers do you think most teams have? I think people are unrealistic of they expect anyone past the sixth starter to be even close to good

We don't have 6 though. We have 3. Paddock and Varland are unknowns. And the depth behind them is almost non-existent. It's an unusual year and there are multiple decent back-end rotation options just sitting there. Take advantage.

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, howeda7 said:

We don't have 6 though. We have 3. Paddock and Varland are unknowns. And the depth behind them is almost non-existent. It's an unusual year and there are multiple decent back-end rotation options just sitting there. Take advantage.

Twins are counting on Paddock to at least start the season. You might not like that, but they are doing that. At this point, they are also counting on Varland (I mean, even veterans are unknowns, one of them had a HORRIBLE second half and good first half last year, sometimes they get hurt....there is one good SP out there, and they aren't paying for him). I would go with Varland at this point over any SP they can/will afford to sign. 

I think we all agree we'd rather have signed a legit SP or traded for one, but that didn't happen. That's a different discussion than what is out there. I also am fairly sure they aren't adding to the payroll at this point, so if you want to sign a guy, you gotta trade a guy....

[laloesch]

9 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Twins are counting on Paddock to at least start the season. You might not like that, but they are doing that. At this point, they are also counting on Varland (I mean, even veterans are unknowns, one of them had a HORRIBLE second half and good first half last year, sometimes they get hurt....there is one good SP out there, and they aren't paying for him). I would go with Varland at this point over any SP they can/will afford to sign. 

I think we all agree we'd rather have signed a legit SP or traded for one, but that didn't happen. That's a different discussion than what is out there. I also am fairly sure they aren't adding to the payroll at this point, so if you want to sign a guy, you gotta trade a guy....

I would still like to see them make another trade with the Marlins for one of their starters (Braxton Garrett, Edward Cabrera, or maybe Jesus Luzardo), but the cost would have been very high assuming they were willing to deal.

[PDX Twin]

It seems like there is a disconnect between what TD readers want and what the actual Twins want (or are willing to buy):

TD: "We want a complete team with stars and most positions. We want to be champions if everything falls in place and highly competitive in all but the most disastrous scenarios."

Twins FO: "We want a respectable team that is good enough to draw decent crowds and TV ratings and can be highly competitive if everything falls in place."

A cynic might tell the former: "If that's what you want, why don't you start following the Astros or Dodgers?" One of the things I love about following the Twins is that success is not just bought, it's developed through (sometimes) shrewd personnel decisions and (sometimes) effective development of talent. If I just wanted to cheer wins, I'd follow the Dodgers, but I'd have to shower twice a day to wash away the slime I'd feel about that choice.

[darin617]

On 3/19/2024 at 8:58 PM, RpR said:

https://baseballdudes.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Baseball-Dudes-Off-Season-Throwing-Program.pdf

"To be one of the best at this game takes a lot of hard work and dedication. Every professional pitcher heads into their off season with a plan. Their plan will include a strength and conditioning program and more importantly, a throwing program. A professional pitcher headed into an off season without a plan is a pitcher who will not be 100% prepared when he heads to spring training. By not being fully prepared, they are setting themselves up for failure. The competition at that level is like nothing you will see at the youth level. Every pitcher you see there was the best on their team, best in their state and maybe one of the best in the country. "

What's your point? Don't copy and paste something and not have an opinion of your own.

They are keeping in shape and throwing of course. But it's not the same thing as actual spring training. Just look back at what happened when the Twins signed Lance Lynn late in spring training. He was not effective at all and I don't think he was mentally prepared either. 

I would be shocked to see Blake Snell pitch before May 1st. They will want to push him out there since they spent the money of course. Buyer beware signing these guys without spring training and expecting them to be able to step right in.

I wouldn't be opposed to the Twins looking at a guy like Mike Clevinger and bringing him in on a minor league deal with a May 1-15 opt out. He won't be ready and it could benefit both the Twins and himself. 

[RpR]

9 hours ago, darin617 said:

What's your point? Don't copy and paste something and not have an opinion of your own.

They are keeping in shape and throwing of course. But it's not the same thing as actual spring training. Just look back at what happened when the Twins signed Lance Lynn late in spring training. He was not effective at all and I don't think he was mentally prepared either. 

I would be shocked to see Blake Snell pitch before May 1st. They will want to push him out there since they spent the money of course. Buyer beware signing these guys without spring training and expecting them to be able to step right in.

I wouldn't be opposed to the Twins looking at a guy like Mike Clevinger and bringing him in on a minor league deal with a May 1-15 opt out. He won't be ready and it could benefit both the Twins and himself. 

The post is about what pitchers go through and I copied a small part.

It speaks for itself .

Edited March 21, 2024 by Squirrel
Removed the name calling

[Althebum82]

Looks like this question has now been resolved:  Michael Lorenzen agrees to deal with Rangers (report) (mlb.com)

[Fatbat]

3 hours ago, Althebum82 said:

Looks like this question has now been resolved:  Michael Lorenzen agrees to deal with Rangers (report) (mlb.com)

Looks like the Rangers rotation is a bit of a mess. 

[darin617]

On 3/20/2024 at 11:46 PM, RpR said:

The post is about what pitchers go through and I copied a small part.

It speaks for itself .

Exactly, maybe you can form your own opinion. Just a thought..

[RpR]

On 3/22/2024 at 10:42 PM, darin617 said:

Exactly, maybe you can form your own opinion. Just a thought..

This is Twins Daily,

News about Baseball,

Opinions are discretionary, at that I have few opinions on pitching.

 

[Major League Ready]

8 hours ago, darin617 said:

Exactly, maybe you can form your own opinion. Just a thought..

What's wrong with posting information for the sole purpose of others using it to form their own opinion?