Twins Trade Nick Gordon to Marlins for Left-Handed Reliever Steven Okert

[stringer bell]

1 hour ago, Dman said:

True if injured he wouldn't have to use it.  And after checking further I see Alcala has 3 options left so he could be sent down.  Jax, Duran and Topa have options left as well but they are high leverage arms.  So my thinking is wrong after checking.  I am assuming only 8 pen arms Duran, Stewart, Jax, Topa, Thielbar, Okurt seem pretty immovable to me unless injured.  So that is six spots taken then Alcala, Staumont and Fundreburk fight it out over the next two spots and they all have options left so they could be rotated.  Unless I am missing someone that is how I see it. 

Unless of course the Twins get another rotation arm and use Desclafani in long relief.  I just don't see them carrying 14 pitchers with all the platooning they do but I could be wrong there too.  At any rate forget what I said earlier, lol.

Jackson will be on the Opening Day roster, I believe. He can't be optioned and the Twins have the option on a second year. The club can carry no more than 13 pitchers. It appears with all the relievers the club has accumulated, they will stay at 13 pitchers. The New York Mets GM story notwithstanding, I would expect a lot of use of the IL and the St. Paul shuttle.

[DocBauer]

1 hour ago, Dman said:

True if injured he wouldn't have to use it.  And after checking further I see Alcala has 3 options left so he could be sent down.  Jax, Duran and Topa have options left as well but they are high leverage arms.  So my thinking is wrong after checking.  I am assuming only 8 pen arms Duran, Stewart, Jax, Topa, Thielbar, Okurt seem pretty immovable to me unless injured.  So that is six spots taken then Alcala, Staumont and Fundreburk fight it out over the next two spots and they all have options left so they could be rotated.  Unless I am missing someone that is how I see it. 

Unless of course the Twins get another rotation arm and use Desclafani in long relief.  I just don't see them carrying 14 pitchers with all the platooning they do but I could be wrong there too.  At any rate forget what I said earlier, lol.

No apologies needed. I thought I might be right about that. Surprised Alcala still has 3 options. Good for the Twins, potentially bad for him. Just still have a gut feeling the change he showed late in 2021 will play yet again and he'll become someone the Twins depend on. 

[DocBauer]

52 minutes ago, singlesoverwalks said:

I have a theory - and this is just a theory, just a guy on the Internet with a theory - that there's less money out there to pay free agents this year because of the regional sports network bankruptcy reducing some teams' revenue and introducing more long-term risk. But teams still acted like there was the same amount of money at the start of the off-season, giving out all those record contracts, so guys who are still unsigned are really going to get squeezed now.

And you're not wrong. It's actually a sorta league wide issue that doesn't just affect the Twins. But that's all we seem to focus on. 

But Bellinger is a bit of a HOT BUTTON as well as a group of others because they are mostly under the "Boras umbrella". And while he's still projected to go back to the Cubs, they are being defiant about contract demands.

Things will shake out eventually. But there is no collusion going on. Many teams are trying to reign back payroll. My goodness, the Padres lost a deal that would have paid them through 2032 but lost it. The Rangers lost their deal that was supposed to pay them something like $85,Ml. It's not just the Twins. 

This means the Twins can sign a decent, quality RH bat to fill the roster, and almost have their choice, on a 1yr deal for $5-8M. 

As far as the rest of the top FA list still available, I think most will end up signing for less than wanted. I wouldn't be shocked if a couple signed for 1yr, 2yr, with an opt out.

I think that gives the Twins a RH OF bat to deepen the lineup. I'm not sure it adds to the to the rotation unless they sign someone like Rhyu on a cheap deal. It would make sense based on opportunity and the new TV 1yr deal.

Why not?

I'm still expecting nothing more than  RH OF and a milb SP with hope and an out clause. But MAYBE they sign someone like Rhyu on the cheap because Desclafani isn't ready yet?

 

[jkcarew]

9 hours ago, lecroy24fan said:

Actually he would be a perfect fit for corner OF if Buxton plays more than not in CF. He is above average defensively no matter where he plays in the OF.

The problem is we know Buxton won’t ‘play more than not’ in CF. And MAT isn’t necessarily someone you want playing 80+ games and getting 250+ PA against right-handed pitching. He’d be an easy choice if the role really was bench/late-defense and spot starts against LH pitching. But the Twins should be asking themselves who can we accept starting 80+ games in CF. Is MAT a better overall option than Castro and/or Martin in that scenario? Tough call.

And fwiw, other than Bellinger, I’m not sure any of the other FA options are obviously better either. My guess is they go MAT…or stick in house. But have no idea which.

[Doctor Wu]

14 hours ago, stringer bell said:

Good luck Nick Gordon! He proved he was a major league player in 2022 and he'll get a lot more at-bats in Miami and he's a Florida guy (Orlando, not Miami).

I've thought the Twins were overbalanced for with right handers in the bullpen, so getting Okert looks like a good idea. As far as adding a right handed bat, if the Twins don't get a starter and/or legitimate center fielder, they should just go with Martin. 

I wish NIck Gordon good luck too! As you mentioned, he is from Orlando originally (and so was I), so there may be some comfort factor going back to his home state. I still think he can be more than a utility player, so I hope he gets to show his stuff in Miami.  I'm sorry to see him leave the Twins, but as almost everyone else has already noted, barring further injuries to other players, there wasn't much of a spot for him this coming season. No, the trade was not a big surprise, the only real surprise is that we got what looks like a decent MLB player for him, rather than a prospect who would be playing in the minors this year. So yeah, it's looks like a good trade for the Twins, and hopefully another win-win for both teams. 

[Riverbrian]

With Gordon no longer around to be that unchecked extra left handed hitter to make things lumpy.

The roster is all platoon pretty right now. 

I assume that Miranda will now make the roster out of spring training and be that third short side right handed hitter to handcuff to one of those young lefties. 

Julien/Farmer

Wallner/Castro

Kirilloff/Miranda

Bring on 162 games. 

 

 

 

[Dman]

13 hours ago, DJL44 said:

You're missing Jay Jackson.

Thanks! It felt like I was missing someone.  Too many changes for me to keep track of I guess.  That just makes the competition for that last spot even tougher then as only one of Staumont, Alcala and Funderburk can make it.  Gotta like having the extra depth though.  If you are one of the pitchers the Twins just put on waivers you have to hope to get claimed as there are a lot of guys you would have to beat out or have injuries to get your chance.

If Staumont makes the 26 man then the Twins would have brought in 4 new pitchers for the bullpen this year.  I'm not sure I buy that on paper they have the best pen in the AL, but this should be the most quality they have from guy to guy that I can ever remember.

[Dman]

31 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

With Gordon no longer around to be that unchecked extra left handed hitter to make things lumpy.

The roster is all platoon pretty right now. 

I assume that Miranda will now make the roster out of spring training and be that third short side right handed hitter to handcuff to one of those young lefties. 

Julien/Farmer

Wallner/Castro

Kirilloff/Miranda

Bring on 162 games. 

 

 

 

Do't forget Santana for 1st base

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

8 hours ago, DocBauer said:

And you're not wrong. It's actually a sorta league wide issue that doesn't just affect the Twins. But that's all we seem to focus on. 

But Bellinger is a bit of a HOT BUTTON as well as a group of others because they are mostly under the "Boras umbrella". And while he's still projected to go back to the Cubs, they are being defiant about contract demands.

Things will shake out eventually. But there is no collusion going on. Many teams are trying to reign back payroll. My goodness, the Padres lost a deal that would have paid them through 2032 but lost it. The Rangers lost their deal that was supposed to pay them something like $85,Ml. It's not just the Twins. 

This means the Twins can sign a decent, quality RH bat to fill the roster, and almost have their choice, on a 1yr deal for $5-8M. 

As far as the rest of the top FA list still available, I think most will end up signing for less than wanted. I wouldn't be shocked if a couple signed for 1yr, 2yr, with an opt out.

I think that gives the Twins a RH OF bat to deepen the lineup. I'm not sure it adds to the to the rotation unless they sign someone like Rhyu on a cheap deal. It would make sense based on opportunity and the new TV 1yr deal.

Why not?

I'm still expecting nothing more than  RH OF and a milb SP with hope and an out clause. But MAYBE they sign someone like Rhyu on the cheap because Desclafani isn't ready yet?

 

From reading the tea leaves I think they are going to get that right handed bat and 1 more starting pitcher.  With being on the starters market it means Varland starts down.  Weiss would go down and Staumont to the 60 day.   That opens 2 spots,  but then carrying 6 starting pitchers during the season and reducing 1 spot for a reliever.   

The hope is they are dumpster diving in the 1-4 million range and more in the $5-10 million range.  If so and they can get a decent right handed bat,  and a usable starting pitcher,  I really really like the construction of the team.  I am hoping in the Ryu, Clevinger and Lorenzen.  Any of those 3 I would be happy with.  I wouldn't be surprised if its Clevinger.  

[USAFChief]

3 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

With Gordon no longer around to be that unchecked extra left handed hitter to make things lumpy.

The roster is all platoon pretty right now. 

I assume that Miranda will now make the roster out of spring training and be that third short side right handed hitter to handcuff to one of those young lefties. 

Julien/Farmer

Wallner/Castro

Kirilloff/Miranda

Bring on 162 games. 

 

 

 

I'd say, barring injury, Santana took away just about any chance Miranda had of opening the season with the Twins. There's only 13 spots. Farmer, Castro, Santana and Vazquez are locks. Kirilloff, Julien, Correa, Lewis, Jeffers, Wallner, Buxton, Kepler.

One spot left. I don't see that going to Miranda.

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

I'd be mildly surprised if Miranda is on the 26 man roster on opening day. I think more likely he's on IL or doing some kind of extended spring training.

The moves to make, IMHO, are Tommy Pham and Michael Lorenzen. The move aren't necessarily the ones I want but they're the ones I can see the Twins making.

[Riverbrian]

1 minute ago, USAFChief said:

I'd say, barring injury, Santana took away any chance Miranda had of opening the season with the Twins. There's only 13 spots.

Quite Possible

However, unless we add a player. Either FA, Trade or 40 Man Add like Goodrum. 

As of today... Someone gets one of those 13 spots.

The choices off the 40 man are Miranda, Larnach, Martin and Severino for one spot.  

  

[USAFChief]

1 minute ago, Riverbrian said:

Quite Possible

However, unless we add a player. Either FA, Trade or 40 Man Add like Goodrum. 

As of today... Someone gets one of those 13 spots.

The choices off the 40 man are Miranda, Larnach, Martin and Severino for one spot.  

  

I agree...someone definitely gets one of those 13 spots!

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

There's no collusion regarding Bellinger. Teams are just reluctant to give him big money after what he showed in 2020, 2021, and 2022. He was almost unplayable in 2021 and 2022. Was least year an outlier and will revert back to prior years after he gets his payday? It is a reasonable question to ask. 

[roger]

With Gray gone, the Twins #2 spot in the order may not be as good this year.  On the other hand, their record in his starts wasn't what one would expect when looking at his personal numbers.  

What they did do this year is strengthen the depth of their bullpen.  Where last year they had several rotating arms at the end of the pen, this year they have solid options with several years of big league experience.  Got a feeling the bullpen is gonna offset any potential losses from the starting rotation. 

[Heiny]

4 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

With Gordon no longer around to be that unchecked extra left handed hitter to make things lumpy.

The roster is all platoon pretty right now. 

I assume that Miranda will now make the roster out of spring training and be that third short side right handed hitter to handcuff to one of those young lefties. 

Julien/Farmer

Wallner/Castro

Kirilloff/Miranda

Bring on 162 games. 

 

 

 

I'm not so sure it will be Miranda making the opening day roster.  I think it will be between Miranda and Martin, and I think it might be Martin to give Buxton more frequent days off.  I hope what it comes down to is one of them tearing up spring traning and really earning the spot.

[Heiny]

I'm not seeing much on the free agent market left that I think would help much.  I would be ok with standing pat with Castro, Santana, Vasquez, Farmer and Martin on the bench to start the season.  Still would have a pretty strong Miranda, Larnach, and Lee in St. Paul. just itching for a call-up.  On the SP front, I don't see alot out there other than Snell and Montgomery that would be worth while, and I don't see the Twins ponying up for them.  I might take a chance on Ryu or Clevinger on a one year deal with a team option.  But I still think  Bauer on a minimum salary with incentives has the highest upside.  If he sucks or is a problem in any way,  DFA him at minimum cost.  He really wants to prove himself so I think it would be a worth while risk.

[Riverbrian]

4 minutes ago, Heiny said:

I'm not so sure it will be Miranda making the opening day roster.  I think it will be between Miranda and Martin, and I think it might be Martin to give Buxton more frequent days off.  I hope what it comes down to is one of them tearing up spring traning and really earning the spot.

I'd bet on Miranda because he has some major league work in and Kirilloff needs a handcuff. But... it's going to be someone. Just like Chief Said. 

 Personally... IMO... It's scary to me to think that a player tearing it up in spring training can leap frog a player over another. 

 

[Heiny]

1 minute ago, Riverbrian said:

I'd bet on Miranda because he has some major league work in and Kirilloff needs a handcuff. But... it's going to be someone. Just like Chief Said. 

 Personally... IMO... It's scary to me to think that a player tearing it up in spring training can leap frog a player over another. 

 

I have to disagree due to the fact that Kirilloff has his handcuff with Santana.  As far as leap frogging,  I don't really see that Miranda is much ahead of Martin and less position availability for Miranda.  Also I think that tearing up spring training is a great way for a rookie break in to the bigs.

[Riverbrian]

2 minutes ago, Heiny said:

I have to disagree due to the fact that Kirilloff has his handcuff with Santana.  As far as leap frogging,  I don't really see that Miranda is much ahead of Martin and less position availability for Miranda.  Also I think that tearing up spring training is a great way for a rookie break in to the bigs.

Could be... I'm not sure how they will utilize Santana. Saving Santana for the 1 out of 4 left handers just may be what they signed him for much like they did with Solano last year.  

I'm not trying to be argumentative... However... Miranda tore it up in Spring Training Last Year with 1,225 OPS. He did make the club but I think the front office was planning on Miranda making the club before spring training began. Whatever they decided or thought about Miranda going in... That OPS in spring training didn't carry over to the regular season. 

20 to 40 AB's in Fort Myers versus a variety of talent level arms (Majors to Single A arms) shouldn't change minds in my opinion. 

[stringer bell]

I see Martin as the more likely choice because of his ability to play outfield. As I may have said before in discussing Brian's takes, I would hope this year the handcuff is more like loosely applied electrical tape. Yes, give them days off versus left handers, but don't pinch hit in the third inning of a scoreless game. On the flip side, I doubt we'll ever see Kirilloff pinch hit for Santana or someone like Martin hitting for Castro. Switch hitting is an advantage, even with a perceived weaker side.

[miracleb]

23 hours ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

LOL,  for a team that has just kind of thrown a bullpen together,  we seem to want to try to build an elite bullpen by accumulating as many options as possible.  Not sure how we can carry them all.  

Huh?  Carry them all?   Having Funderburk and Alcala start out with the Twins was never a given.  With injuries, there is probably a good chance at least one of these two even ends up going north.  We are still at a bare bones minimum of bullpen arms.  Hopefully, we do get into a position where we have 4-5 options on the last one or two spots!   :-)

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, stringer bell said:

 As I may have said before in discussing Brian's takes, I would hope this year the handcuff is more like loosely applied electrical tape. Yes, give them days off versus left handers, but don't pinch hit in the third inning of a scoreless game. 

I'll settle for that.

Save the pinch hitting for the 8th and 9th inning if the game is on the line. There is way too much game to be played in the 3rd inning.

If they just do that... I won't be as worked up about the platooning in 2024. 

[Mike Sixel]

I really do like this trade for both teams. I want the end of the bench to be optionable player(s).....and while I like Gordon, I don't think he's as valuable to THIS TEAM as another good RP. 

[nicksaviking]

3 hours ago, USAFChief said:

I agree...someone definitely gets one of those 13 spots!

I don't know, downsizing your workforce is like the first chapter of How to Run Your Business with a Lower Payroll.

[darin617]

20 hours ago, singlesoverwalks said:

I have a theory - and this is just a theory, just a guy on the Internet with a theory - that there's less money out there to pay free agents this year because of the regional sports network bankruptcy reducing some teams' revenue and introducing more long-term risk. But teams still acted like there was the same amount of money at the start of the off-season, giving out all those record contracts, so guys who are still unsigned are really going to get squeezed now.

The teams have money and that includes those affected by RSN. They are just trying to correct the market. It surely didn't stop the big teams from spending because they don't care and practically print money.