Buxton at 1B?

[Riverbrian]

On 10/14/2023 at 1:47 PM, tony&rodney said:

But, yes teams are more willing to get power and offense from 1B than other positions. Thus, fans often see substandard fielding from that position.

They have to play somewhere. 😉

[KirbyDome89]

23 hours ago, jkcarew said:

The best plan by far is to build a roster that ignores him as a starting option entirely. If he becomes an option health/ability-wise, there will be opportunities via injuries and underperformance elsewhere on the roster for him to return to relevance. Sad…and expensive, but it’s the right path forward.

This is the correct answer no matter how much people don't want to hear it. 

[Rosterman]

Gotta find a place for that high-priced contract. 

 

Can first base be the answer? Well, fine, as long as you have a DH, too. Otherwise, just use him as a DH. But then you have no place to rotate others without a true position.

 

So the issue always is: why are guys on the roster that have no concrete position? Okay, depth is important, maybe getting that firm position next season. So, is Julien or Kirilloff on first? When Polanco leaves, who is on second. Is there a reason for Miranda to be in the mix?

I'm all for having a roster of guys who play multiple positions, but still feel that a player should be and play solid in one position. Nice to know how much room you have to cover in the outfield. Who your double play partners are on the field. What are the abilities of the guy you throw to at first base. I affects the way a person plays day-in-and-day-out, especially when competitive.

Same with line-up. Nice to know who is hitting in front and behind. You can recognize what a pitcher throws better. Get comfortable, when on base, with what the batter might be able to do.

So, we have to find a way to play Buxton that won't hurt the team!

[MABB1959]

On 10/14/2023 at 7:12 AM, snellman said:

He has the bat to play the prototypical 1B and I am assuming that would be easier on his knee that any OF position.

Does he really have the bat?

 

[MABB1959]

On 10/14/2023 at 2:49 PM, jkcarew said:

If he doesn’t hit enough to add value at DH…then he’s not going to add relevant value at 1B, either.

For those that say/think he’s an all-star hitter when healthy (I don’t)…do you really think 1B is going to keep him healthy?

The best plan by far is to build a roster that ignores him as a starting option entirely. If he becomes an option health/ability-wise, there will be opportunities via injuries and underperformance elsewhere on the roster for him to return to relevance. Sad…and expensive, but it’s the right path forward.

Can they force him to retire?  I would expect they would have to pay him out but this team can't afford to hope and wonder anymore!

[Parfigliano]

2 hours ago, Rosterman said:

Gotta find a place for that high-priced contract. 

 

Can first base be the answer? Well, fine, as long as you have a DH, too. Otherwise, just use him as a DH. But then you have no place to rotate others without a true position.

 

So the issue always is: why are guys on the roster that have no concrete position? Okay, depth is important, maybe getting that firm position next season. So, is Julien or Kirilloff on first? When Polanco leaves, who is on second. Is there a reason for Miranda to be in the mix?

I'm all for having a roster of guys who play multiple positions, but still feel that a player should be and play solid in one position. Nice to know how much room you have to cover in the outfield. Who your double play partners are on the field. What are the abilities of the guy you throw to at first base. I affects the way a person plays day-in-and-day-out, especially when competitive.

Same with line-up. Nice to know who is hitting in front and behind. You can recognize what a pitcher throws better. Get comfortable, when on base, with what the batter might be able to do.

So, we have to find a way to play Buxton that won't hurt the team!

He cant stay healthy or hit.  Thats a really bad DH.

[howeda7]

2 hours ago, MABB1959 said:

Can they force him to retire?  I would expect they would have to pay him out but this team can't afford to hope and wonder anymore!

They can cut him and pay the entire contract. My expectations are that they will give it one more try at playing CF/RF in 2024. If he can't stay reasonably healthy again, they will negotiate some sort of settlement for the remaining amount of the contract. He takes say 70-80% of what is owed and he doesn't have undergo anymore surgeries/rehab and can retire in peace.

[Linus]

This isn’t going to happen. They owe him 100% of the contract. Why would he take less when he accepted less when he signed the deal. 

[FilthyMogwai]

My initial thought was, if DH didn't keep him healthy, I dunno that anything would. 

I don't like the idea of moving him to 1B because his value is so much higher in CF and I don't like the idea of opening up CF full-time to an offensive liability - like Kevin Kiermaier or Michael A. Taylor. But I think I like the idea of him clogging up DH even less.

Regardless of where they put him, I expect the Twins will need another option for the remaining 60% of the season.

 

[Fatbat]

It is possible that the latest cleanup snip snip took care of the issue. He was just dealing with pain so if the pain is gone and his knee works like it should, he should be able to run and jump. Im going to just expect him to do the job he is being paid for….

[RpR]

Buxton at 1B?

No

[SteveLV]

No idea whether the FO was able to insure all or part of Buxton's contract.

If he can't play, they can submit for reimbursement.

The other option is to convert his contract into, effectively, an annuity to spread his income out over his remaining lifetime, decreasing his annual tax liability.  Lots of creative options.

The best thing for everyone would be to find out the plica really was the source of his discomfort, and he is healthy enough to play CF next year on a semi-regular basis.

I put that at about 10-20% probability.

[ashbury]

9 hours ago, MABB1959 said:

Does he really have the bat?

 

He's got the bat.  Prior to 2023, he put up two full seasons worth of work maintaining a .874 OPS.  That's a first baseman's production, over a long enough time (1066 plate appearances) to not be Small Sample Size.

Trouble is, those "two full seasons" as I called it were spread across four years, 2019-2022.  

He can't stay on the field.  We all know that.  It's not a point of dispute.

But "when healthy" (those dreaded words), those numbers say he is a strong hitter.  Heck, in 2023 he started out strong again, then suffered a sequence of debilitating damage that he tried to play through and it wrecked his season.

The attempt to keep him healthy by DHing him was a complete failure.  I don't want that repeated.  He needs to play CF, not 1B, not DH - and not because he doesn't have the chops on offense, but because staying out of CF is not a successful strategy for him. 

I'm not one who generally tries to be tough guy and tell players what to do.  But in this case, my stance would be that if he can't go as a centerfielder, then he sits.  If he has to sit for multiple days, then he goes on the IL.  If he's on the IL all the time, then at some point a negotiated buy-out is in the interest of both player and team.

He's about my favorite Twin, so I don't say any of this out of animosity.  But just say no to first base.

[MABB1959]

8 hours ago, ashbury said:

If he's on the IL all the time, then at some point a negotiated buy-out is in the interest of both player and team.

I have nothing but respect for him and he has truly has done the best he can to get back.  Right now through no fault of his own, he is a huge clog in the engine.  They need to build the 2024 team without Buxton.  He takes a big chunk of the salary, prime position to fill, was a pretty dismal showing at the DH position.  Now hear thoughts of 1st base?

[chpettit19]

27 minutes ago, MABB1959 said:

I have nothing but respect for him and he has truly has done the best he can to get back.  Right now through no fault of his own, he is a huge clog in the engine.  They need to build the 2024 team without Buxton.  He takes a big chunk of the salary, prime position to fill, was a pretty dismal showing at the DH position.  Now hear thoughts of 1st base?

The "thoughts of 1st base" are 100% fan created. The team isn't talking about putting him at 1B. It's just fans trying to come up with ways they think would work to keep him on the field. The Twins aren't putting Byron Buxton at 1B. And they're not buying out his contract so he can retire. If he's going to retire he's going to retire. If they want to get rid of him but he wants to keep playing they'll have to talk him into waiving his no trade and moving him while attaching a prospect and/or eating some salary.

[stringer bell]

I have three artificial joints due to arthritic degeneration and that is what I suspect is at play here. Buxton has suffered multiple injuries in his career, but the problem that sidetracked both 2022 and 2023 is his knee. Pain and swelling despite the efforts of Buxton and the training staff seem to indicate a chronic injury, maybe arthritic. Maybe excising the plica takes care of his problem, but somehow I doubt that.

I wish Byron nothing but the best, but I have moved on from expecting/hoping that he can play great center field and get 600 plate appearances. I agree that the Twins have to plan as though he won't be available, but still leave a place for him, a tough needle to thread. I don't think first base is a realistic option. 

[Trov]

It is not a dumb idea, but I would not do it.  Does he provide that much defense to 1st base, most likely not.  Would this save his knee wear and tear, most likely not due to the diving and stretching.  Would it keep him on the field any more, most likely not, being as a DH he still missed a ton of time last year. He gets hurt hitting just as much, if not more, than fielding.  The knee issue came up from base running 2 years ago. He has missed time with hip issues running out ground ball. The only way he can stay fully healthy is if he just hits HR and if not walk to dug out, and that may not even keep him healthy. 

[howeda7]

19 hours ago, Linus said:

This isn’t going to happen. They owe him 100% of the contract. Why would he take less when he accepted less when he signed the deal. 

Because he's obligated to keep rehabbing and trying to make it back each year. If it's not happening, there is some value to both parties in negotiating an amicable parting.

[howeda7]

17 hours ago, SteveLV said:

No idea whether the FO was able to insure all or part of Buxton's contract.

If he can't play, they can submit for reimbursement.

The other option is to convert his contract into, effectively, an annuity to spread his income out over his remaining lifetime, decreasing his annual tax liability.  Lots of creative options.

The best thing for everyone would be to find out the plica really was the source of his discomfort, and he is healthy enough to play CF next year on a semi-regular basis.

I put that at about 10-20% probability.

I seriously doubt they were able to ensure it or would have had to pay massive premiums. That's part of why he took a discount.

[howeda7]

My vote is to sign/trade for a 1B. trade Kepler and then platoon Kiriloff and Buxton in RF on the hope that at least one of them can stay healthy (most likely Kiriloff) .

[chpettit19]

8 minutes ago, howeda7 said:

Because he's obligated to keep rehabbing and trying to make it back each year. If it's not happening, there is some value to both parties in negotiating an amicable parting.

If he doesn't want to rehab and try to make it back each year why would the team be interested in paying him to retire?

[strumdatjag]

Don’t the Twins have an insurance policy in the event Byron Buxton cannot physically perform?  

[Fatbat]

Last I heard, the pohlads are so cheap that they don’t even carry your fault insurance. Lol