Buxton

[glunn]

3 hours ago, darin617 said:

The plan for Buxton should be to be back in 2025.

In 2024 shoot him up with everything under the sun to hope to speed up the healing process. When he gets caught it's a 50 game suspension and no post season. I know this would never happen of course, and if anything they should have done it this July and hope for 2024 as the return date target.

Shoot him up with WHAT?  

[Aerodeliria]

Waiting for Buxton is like that scene in the Poltergeist. The hall just keeps getting longer and longer and it seems like we will never get to the goal...so maybe next season and maybe not, but certainly not this season...

[Kenny Powers]

11 hours ago, jkcarew said:

I don’t think you can even begin to put Buxton in the same category as Correa in terms of career accomplishments.

Buxton has qualified for a batting title ONE time in his entire career and was awful in brief post-season appearances. The ‘track records’ are worlds apart.

Having said that, if Buxton is ready (if there is such a thing with him anymore), you add him…and then come into 2024 with a good CF plan that does not rely on Buxton.

I don't see them as "worlds apart" myself.  Look at the four years prior to this season:

Buxton:  976 AB; .258 BA; 70 HRs; .874 OPS

Correa:  1558 AB; .281 BA; 74 HRs; .840 OPS

They were each an All Star one time in those four years.  Both guys brought excellent defense at key positions. 

Like I wrote before - these were the two engines that should be driving this team.  Seeing Correa start to come on just reminded me of how this team was supposed to look.

[AlwaysinModeration]

When Buxton is confident at the plate, there are few players in the whole sport that are better.  That would be immensely valuable in the ALCS or the World Series.  However, when he is not, he strikes out over and over again.

It’s hard to see a clear path in which he gets enough plate appearances to gain the confidence he needs.  The best scenario would be if Lewis is healthy enough to play at 3B, and then he could start vs a LH at DH (let’s say…Martin Perez?), and be a PH option for Wallner or Kiriloff.  Would he be a better option than Solano or Farmer or Castro in those PH situations?  Not sure.  But if he did well in a DH start…maybe?

In any event, I don’t think the Twins will make the decision based on sentimentality.  Whatever the case, I certainly hope there is a decision to make about whether to roster him for the ALCS and beyond!

[AlwaysinModeration]

Actually, if the Rangers advance and the Twins make the playoffs…the Rangers have seven lefties on their ALDS roster:

LHP Jordan Montgomery

LHP Andrew Heaney

LHP Martin Perez

LHP Will Smith 

LHP Brock Burke

LHP Cody Bradford

LHP Aroldis Chapman

Definitely opens up more possibilities for Buxton.

[FlyingFinn]

11 minutes ago, AlwaysinModeration said:

Definitely opens up more possibilities for Buxton.

I think we go to 7 games in the next round, making it more likely that we go with 13 pitchers (though maybe the off days still support a 12 man staff). Stevenson would be the odd man out but I don't see the Twins getting rid of any other hitters unless there's an injury. Then, I just don't gamble that Buxton gets hurt in game #1 and we are down to 12 batters, with one being Vasquez, who has as many AB's as Buxton in the playoffs.

[IndianaTwin]

2 hours ago, FlyingFinn said:

I think we go to 7 games in the next round, making it more likely that we go with 13 pitchers (though maybe the off days still support a 12 man staff). Stevenson would be the odd man out but I don't see the Twins getting rid of any other hitters unless there's an injury. Then, I just don't gamble that Buxton gets hurt in game #1 and we are down to 12 batters, with one being Vasquez, who has as many AB's as Buxton in the playoffs.

To clarify, if Buxton indeed gets hurt in game #1, they do have the ability to replace him (with commissioner approval, I believe). Doing so would mean that he would have to be inactive for the next series as well. 

(And this isn't advocating for including Buxton, just clarifying a rule.)

[Original_JB]

16 hours ago, stringer bell said:

I think it’s pretty close to magical thinking to expect Buxton to contribute this year on the field. He’s been dealing with a bum wheel for over a year—how can we expect for it to resolve now? 
 

Maybe, maybe, he can be rostered and perhaps supply a key hit in a pinch-hitting role (something he has never done in my recollection), but the time is gone (IMHO) to get him back for regular play for the last round or two of postseason. 

You are having flashbacks of Kirk Gibson again.

[stringer bell]

4 hours ago, AlwaysinModeration said:

Actually, if the Rangers advance and the Twins make the playoffs…the Rangers have seven lefties on their ALDS roster:

LHP Jordan Montgomery

LHP Andrew Heaney

LHP Martin Perez

LHP Will Smith 

LHP Brock Burke

LHP Cody Bradford

LHP Aroldis Chapman

Definitely opens up more possibilities for Buxton.

In 2023, Buxton has a .627 OPS against lefties. That isn't the batting mark of a "lefty masher". In those times when he's been locked in and healthy, it doesn't matter which hand the pitcher throws with. 

[AlGoreRythm]

On 10/9/2023 at 8:36 AM, Kenny Powers said:

This is where my head is at.  Obviously I wouldn't want to add the Buxton we saw during the regular season (basically a DH).  But as I wrote in my original post - IF, he can play CF (meaning healthy), I wouldn't mind seeing if he too can rise to the occasion under the big lights.  I agree with you that a healthy Buxton can certainly match anything Taylor is doing the field and obviously the additional offensive potential.  Anyway - I'm sure they know where Buxton is at health wise and are handling it accordingly.  It was just me thinking out loud after seeing Correa star so far.  Buxton and Correa were supposed to be the two main engines this season and it would be pretty cool if they both caught fire in the playoffs.

The fact that he played CF for what, 1 game on his rehab assignment and wasn't added to the playoff roster is a pretty good indication he cannot play in the field, so IDK what we're talking about here other than dreaming on the counter-factual...

[BsuNemo]

On 10/9/2023 at 8:56 AM, TopGunn#22 said:

I think they are monitoring Buxton daily and we haven't seen the last of post-season roster tinkering if they are able to advance.  As you've all been discussing though, just what do you get with this version of Buxton?  Nothing he's done this year indicates anything positive.  Despite a horrible batting average, low OB% and too many strikeouts, Taylor at least hit 20 HR's, stole over 20 bases (something Buxton has done once? twice?) and Taylor has played GREAT defense. (something Buxton has always done).  I'm just not sure how beneficial having Byron would be.

That said, no matter how this season turns out, I don't think Taylor ever comes close to what he did this year and Buxton cannot be counted on for anything in the future.  This front office must come up with a long-term plan for CF for 2024 and beyond.  

This is why I wanted them to give a good hard look at Bellinger at the trade deadline and then sign an extension.  He fixes that.  I think he's too expensive this winter to get though.

[Battle ur tail off]

On 10/9/2023 at 10:20 AM, John Kelsey said:

To me it's not even Taylor vs. Buxton, it's Stevenson vs. Buxton.

Could he not at least pinch run, maybe get a few ABs against lefties and play a few innings of defense? 

100% if added, it would be at Steveson's expense.

On 10/9/2023 at 10:25 AM, FlyingFinn said:

No. He would try his best and most likely get hurt in the first game and not be able to play the rest of the series. We would be playing a man down. Get ready for next year Bux.

If hurt, could someone be added right away for the next game? Or even instantly if they are there? I don't know the rules for this...

If he were hurt in a game as a bench player, yes, we would be a man down for the rest of that game, plus 1 other guy because you would have to use THAT bench guy to sub for Buxton. 

[darin617]

On 10/9/2023 at 9:56 PM, glunn said:

Shoot him up with WHAT?  

Can we ask Joe Mauer what he used to come back and have that great season that earned him that huge payday? Or just call up Barry Bonds. Pick your poison. Pun intended.

[Schmoeman5]

17 hours ago, Kenny Powers said:

I don't see them as "worlds apart" myself.  Look at the four years prior to this season:

Buxton:  976 AB; .258 BA; 70 HRs; .874 OPS

Correa:  1558 AB; .281 BA; 74 HRs; .840 OPS

They were each an All Star one time in those four years.  Both guys brought excellent defense at key positions. 

Like I wrote before - these were the two engines that should be driving this team.  Seeing Correa start to come on just reminded me of how this team was supposed to look.

600 AB more in 4 years is worlds apart. That's 1 whole year of hitting. It's also an indication of how much time both of those guys have missed. Full time everyday players get 550 to 600 AB per season. Correa is avg. under 400. Buxton under 250. So you're expecting a lot from 2 engines that need major overhauls. And those numbers didn't include the disappointing numbers from this season.

[dxpavelka]

On 10/9/2023 at 8:15 AM, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

Have you not watched the playoffs?  Taylor is doing everything he can in centerfield.  I would say arguable playing as well as a healthy Buxton.    Anything we get from his bat is gravy.  

Taylor has done so much they benched him today.

[JD-TWINS]

On 10/9/2023 at 9:36 AM, Kenny Powers said:

This is where my head is at.  Obviously I wouldn't want to add the Buxton we saw during the regular season (basically a DH).  But as I wrote in my original post - IF, he can play CF (meaning healthy), I wouldn't mind seeing if he too can rise to the occasion under the big lights.  I agree with you that a healthy Buxton can certainly match anything Taylor is doing the field and obviously the additional offensive potential.  Anyway - I'm sure they know where Buxton is at health wise and are handling it accordingly.  It was just me thinking out loud after seeing Correa star so far.  Buxton and Correa were supposed to be the two main engines this season and it would be pretty cool if they both caught fire in the playoffs.

Obviously, he’s unable to run well enough to either play OF or to effectively DH. Can’t activate in middle of Series. Maybe he takes a spot next week?

[JD-TWINS]

3 minutes ago, dxpavelka said:

Taylor has done so much they benched him today.

They play Castro v. RH pitching since he can swing from left side. Not punishing or hating on Taylor. 

[RickOShea]

Buxton is a write-off waiting to happen. He provides no value to the team by not playing or pinch hitting.  In fact, his presence on the club hamstrings many basic moves on the roster. It's too bad, but all I see is someone who is sucking payroll and dugout space away from others.  If the medical staff and Buxton cannot make some firm decisions, then he needs to go.  These timetables for return were derived from a crystal ball, IMO.

[Kenny Powers]

7 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

Obviously, he’s unable to run well enough to either play OF or to effectively DH. Can’t activate in middle of Series. Maybe he takes a spot next week?

Well...we have to get to next week first.  Yesterday was a big let down.  We shall see.

[Kenny Powers]

8 hours ago, Schmoeman5 said:

600 AB more in 4 years is worlds apart. That's 1 whole year of hitting. It's also an indication of how much time both of those guys have missed. Full time everyday players get 550 to 600 AB per season. Correa is avg. under 400. Buxton under 250. So you're expecting a lot from 2 engines that need major overhauls. And those numbers didn't include the disappointing numbers from this season.

I don't think we can expect 550-600 ABs/year from either guy based on their history.  My whole point was hoping we could squeeze some juice at the right time (next round - if we can get there).  That's part of what makes the playoffs so fun for me is watching guys come up big (regardless of what they did during the regular season).

[Kenny Powers]

17 hours ago, AlGoreRythm said:

The fact that he played CF for what, 1 game on his rehab assignment and wasn't added to the playoff roster is a pretty good indication he cannot play in the field, so IDK what we're talking about here other than dreaming on the counter-factual...

Buxton went to the DL because of a hamstring.  I don't think it's unrealistic to think he could be recovered enough if we make it to the next round.  He first went on DL August 1st and was playing CF for the Saints 30 days later.  Of course - he aggravated it as you noted.  But it's now mid-October (another 45 days later).  The hammy should be healed by now.  I know he has a chronic knee issue too, however that seems to be something he can play with.  Last reports I saw were he was hitting live batting practice before the Wild Card series.  I think Royce Lewis needed to be the DH for the start of the playoffs is part of what kept Buxton off the roster.  But Royce is playing 3rd now - so that opens up a possibility of Buxton being available to contribute there.  Of course - we have to advance or it's all moot.   I'm not sure what's "counterfactual" about anything I wrote?

[SoDakTwinsFan]

What on earth are we talking about here?  The Twins played their best when Buxton when on the IL!  To say IF he could do this or IF he could do that might help the team is nuts.  Go by what happened this season.  Buxton sucked and the Twins were flirting with coming in second in the worst division in baseball.  Without him they played really well and swept the Bluejays and have a good chance of making the ALCS.  Open your eyes.  

As was stated above, he couldn't get through one game in CF at AAA without getting pulled.  The dude can't play there and has 0 value as a DH.

[ashbury]

13 hours ago, Schmoeman5 said:

600 AB more in 4 years is worlds apart. That's 1 whole year of hitting. It's also an indication of how much time both of those guys have missed. Full time everyday players get 550 to 600 AB per season. Correa is avg. under 400.

I can't help but point out that the "four years prior to this season" which you were responding to includes the shortened Covid-year 2020. That's going to skew the numbers, and Correa was healthy that year (58 games played out of 60).  Yes, his 2019 was injury-riddled (broken rib, what a wimp), but the overall picture of his availability is not so bleak as your suggested benchmark would have it.

There's no way to view Buxton's health in that span positively, of course.

[Schmoeman5]

1 minute ago, ashbury said:

I can't help but point out that the "four years prior to this season" which you were responding to includes the shortened Covid-year 2020. That's going to skew the numbers, and he was healthy that year (58 games played out of 60).  Yes, his 2019 was injury-riddled, but the overall picture of his availability is not so bleak as your suggested benchmark would have it.

Agreed. But in the case of Buxton. He still had nearly 600 less AB in the same time frame. That's a lot.

[ashbury]

2 minutes ago, Schmoeman5 said:

Agreed. But in the case of Buxton. He still had nearly 600 less AB in the same time frame. That's a lot.

Sorry, I was editing my post to reflect on Buxton (he's the topic of the thread after all) while you were responding.

[AlGoreRythm]

On 10/11/2023 at 6:54 AM, Kenny Powers said:

Buxton went to the DL because of a hamstring.  I don't think it's unrealistic to think he could be recovered enough if we make it to the next round.  He first went on DL August 1st and was playing CF for the Saints 30 days later.  Of course - he aggravated it as you noted.  But it's now mid-October (another 45 days later).  The hammy should be healed by now.  I know he has a chronic knee issue too, however that seems to be something he can play with.  Last reports I saw were he was hitting live batting practice before the Wild Card series.  I think Royce Lewis needed to be the DH for the start of the playoffs is part of what kept Buxton off the roster.  But Royce is playing 3rd now - so that opens up a possibility of Buxton being available to contribute there.  Of course - we have to advance or it's all moot.   I'm not sure what's "counterfactual" about anything I wrote?

The counterfactual is that Buxton actually could play the outfield. He can't. He hasn't all year, not because of a hammy but because of his knees. Why would another month+ change that after over 6 months of him being unable to play outfield?

When I say "dreaming on the counterfactual" I'm saying your speculation of Buck potentially playing the OF had no basis in reality. It was just dreaming on what could be if he was healthy, which he's not and hasn't been all year.

[GopherJeff]

On 10/9/2023 at 7:12 AM, Kenny Powers said:

I was pretty down on both Buxton and Correa this year mostly because the cost vs. production.  Big money brings big expectations and both guys had down years.  However, the playoffs are made for star players and watching Correa rise to the occasion is softening my stance on Buxton.  I still wouldn't want to add him as a only a DH.  But man, if the guy can still play some CF, I kind wouldn't mind activating him to see if he can do what Correa is doing.  We're not really getting anything from Taylor, so the bar is pretty low right now.

I'm fine with Taylor for another year or two. He doesn't hit for high average but he's got some power (21 HRs), some speed (13 SB) and plays good D. He's 31 so his production likely won't improve.

Castro is a nice utility player. I hope they hang on to him. 

I wonder where Gordon fits in to the team's plans?

Buxton is a true enigma. He seems to be past his prime and is injured so often that he can't be relied upon for any contribution.

If they can trade for a power-hitting OF, that would improve the team immensely. Wallner is young and will (hopefully) get a better sense of the strike zone. Kepler was fine in the 2nd half - what will be be like next year? He's 30 so even if he matches his post-all star game production, he's not a long term solution.

[JD-TWINS]

On 10/9/2023 at 9:15 AM, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

Have you not watched the playoffs?  Taylor is doing everything he can in centerfield.  I would say arguable playing as well as a healthy Buxton.    Anything we get from his bat is gravy.  

He’s got best defensive numbers in CF since 2021………I don’t get the complaining either.

[stringer bell]

The Twins did exactly what many suggested they do—shut down Buxton and try to get his knee right (as right as possible) and it didn’t work. After waiting a month, Buxton wasn’t able to last a full rehab game in center field. I don’t think the odds are very good at all that he’ll ever be able to play in the field more than occasionally and with all the time away, I doubt Byron would be a premium defender. 
 

Buxton got a good contract and it’s very doubtful that he’ll get many, if any, incentives included. The Twins are on the hook for the contract. 

[Parfigliano]

Buxton is a lost cause.  He isnt playing elite D or providing any offense anytime soon.  Tons of talent but physically unable to perform.  The last few years say this is his future.