Twins CF In 2024...Is It Too Early To Talk About?

[chpettit19]

8 minutes ago, cmoss84 said:

My overall point is Lewis is our first potential legit hitter/MVP candidate since...?

I want him at 3B. You want him in CF. We obviously have very different opinions on this...all good. 

Yeah, I'd rather have an MVP in CF and an All Star at 3B than an MVP at 3B and a replacement level player in CF. To each their own, though.

[cmoss84]

3 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Yeah, I'd rather have an MVP in CF and an All Star at 3B than an MVP at 3B and a replacement level player in CF. To each their own, though.

Never said anything about replacement player in CF...who are you referring to? 

[DJL44]

47 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Royce tore his the first time slipping on some ice, should we make sure he's never around ice ever again?

I'm actually in favor of keeping Royce away from ice.

[DJL44]

27 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Yeah, I'd rather have an MVP in CF and an All Star at 3B than an MVP at 3B and a replacement level player in CF. To each their own, though.

For 2024 you'll be better off with Lewis at 3B and Martin in CF than you would be with Lewis in CF and Lee at 3B. Lee isn't as ready for the big leagues as Martin is.

[Mike Sixel]

3 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

For 2024 you'll be better off with Lewis at 3B and Martin in CF than you would be with Lewis in CF and Lee at 3B. Lee isn't as ready for the big leagues as Martin is.

This is the best argument in this thread so far. 

[chpettit19]

14 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

I'm actually in favor of keeping Royce away from ice.

That's fair. If given a choice I'd rather him not be around ice than be around ice, but I wouldn't stop him from taking his lady friend ice skating if he's looking for a nice date idea. 

[jorgenswest]

I think there is a reasonable chance Martin will come up and need to return to AAA. I believe in Martin long term but next year could be one where he goes back and forth.

They should prepare Lewis for CF. The other options of Buxton, Martin, Gordon and Castro aren’t as certain. The best duo may be a Miranda with a healthy shoulder at 3B and Lewis in CF. It may be Martin in CF and Lewis at 3B. It may be Buxton playing enough CF that Lewis is at 3B. In any case Lewis needs to prepare some for CF also.

I do think they have enough options that they don’t need to bring back a declining Taylor.

[DJL44]

2 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

That's fair. If given a choice I'd rather him not be around ice than be around ice, but I wouldn't stop him from taking his lady friend ice skating if he's looking for a nice date idea. 

Royce, go to the movies instead.

[chpettit19]

47 minutes ago, cmoss84 said:

Never said anything about replacement player in CF...who are you referring to? 

Fine, unproven rookie who very likely has early struggles, is much closer to serviceable than great in CF, hits for very minimal power, and will have to prove he can hit major league pitching before he starts racking up tons of walks because pitchers won't fear him early on.

I'm excited to see what Martin can do, but handing him an opening day job, or expecting him to be your main CFer in 2024 is far riskier than putting Lewis there and relying on Polanco and Miranda to man 3B with Lee coming behind them. 

And before anyone shoots down Miranda as an option I'd just point out that Miranda's AAA splits are .306/.362/.490/.852 in 140 games while Martin's are .270/.396/.417/.812 in 55 games. So if Martin's recent AAA success is what you're banking on as being a legit major leaguer I'd sure think Miranda's would give you some hope, too.

[chpettit19]

34 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

For 2024 you'll be better off with Lewis at 3B and Martin in CF than you would be with Lewis in CF and Lee at 3B. Lee isn't as ready for the big leagues as Martin is.

Luckily I wouldn't have to rely on Lee at 3B as I have Polanco and Miranda there before him. The Twins have far more IF depth, even assuming they don't bring back Farmer and/or Solano, than they do OF depth, especially CF depth. 

I'll take Lewis in CF and Polanco at 3B over Lewis at 3B and Martin in CF for 2024. And I'll take Lewis in CF and Lee at 3B over Lewis at 3B and Martin in CF for 2025 and beyond.

[RpR]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

Not one person can show data CF is riskier than the IF.....

Simple logic says bouncing off of a wall, is more dangerous than playing where there is no wall.

How many twins went to the IL last year due to a wall???

I saw Tony Oliva rob a home run and bounce off of a HARD wall and act like nothing happened right infront of me, nowadays , it seems, too many do not have that durability.

 

Every thing in this thread is based on opinion and personal hopes, but the wall and injury, is also a reality.

[SoDakTwinsFan]

Maybe it was mentioned on here but didn't Lewis say he doesn't want play in CF?  Can someone say if that's true and if it is what is the reasoning behind it?

Part of me says Lewis is looking like a perennial all-star at 3B, why change?  The other part says if he is is more valuable to the team in and the team can win more games with him in CF then that is where he should be.

[jorgenswest]

I will add to their options Celestino. He is the same age as Martin. They have a similar wRC+ in AAA. His strikeout, walk rates and ISO are slightly better than Martin’s but virtually the same. Martin has hit more singles. If I see Martin as a candidate for CF based on AAA I don’t see how I can leave out Celestino.

I guess it is easier for me to be interested in the player I haven’t seen yet over the player I saw struggle. One I am excited to see and the other I was ready to take off the 40 though they are the same age with very similar AAA performances this year.

[DJL44]

2 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

Luckily I wouldn't have to rely on Lee at 3B as I have Polanco and Miranda there before him.

That's some bad 3B defense

[Battle ur tail off]

Depth is what has saved this team this season and is the only one in recent memory I can remember not having to count on guys for long stretches of time that really shouldn't be on a ML roster. 

I think bringing back Taylor if you can, along with Martin and Buxton to cover for him is a good plan. He can't cost that much and I just think it would be foolish to count on an oft-injured Buxton or an unproven rookie to open the season as your CF. 

PS NO way do I want Lewis out there. Let him stay at 3rd or even DH him if you had to. He is the best player on this roster. He's a fantastic 3B IMO and his bat need to be in the lineup as much as possible. Don't mess with him please. He needs to stay healthy. 

[chpettit19]

1 hour ago, DJL44 said:

That's some bad 3B defense

Less than ideal for sure, but I'll take the extra offense. I just think there's far more options at 3B than CF now and moving forward. Lewis in CF balances this team out really well, in my opinion. I don't expect it to happen, but it's the move I'd make, and I wouldn't think twice about it.

[Mike Sixel]

28 minutes ago, Battle ur tail off said:

Depth is what has saved this team this season and is the only one in recent memory I can remember not having to count on guys for long stretches of time that really shouldn't be on a ML roster. 

I think bringing back Taylor if you can, along with Martin and Buxton to cover for him is a good plan. He can't cost that much and I just think it would be foolish to count on an oft-injured Buxton or an unproven rookie to open the season as your CF. 

PS NO way do I want Lewis out there. Let him stay at 3rd or even DH him if you had to. He is the best player on this roster. He's a fantastic 3B IMO and his bat need to be in the lineup as much as possible. Don't mess with him please. He needs to stay healthy. 

Why would CF be less safe than 3B? There is no data to support that. Lewis would be one of the best CF in the entire game....

[FlyingFinn]

4 hours ago, DJL44 said:

For 2024 you'll be better off with Lewis at 3B and Martin in CF than you would be with Lewis in CF and Lee at 3B. Lee isn't as ready for the big leagues as Martin is.

What do people think about Martin in LF, Lewis in CF and Lee at 3B? And Martin and Lewis have position flexibility to allow for days off.

[Mike Sixel]

21 minutes ago, FlyingFinn said:

What do people think about Martin in LF, Lewis in CF and Lee at 3B? And Martin and Lewis have position flexibility to allow for days off.

Where's Wallner in this scenario? I've considered it, but Kepler isn't going anywhere.....

I will bet real money Martin is in StP to start the year.....

[Battle ur tail off]

29 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Why would CF be less safe than 3B? There is no data to support that. Lewis would be one of the best CF in the entire game....

I really shouldn't need to explain it to you should I? 6 feet of range one way, 50 feet of range 3 different ways.

[SwainZag]

6 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Where's Wallner in this scenario? I've considered it, but Kepler isn't going anywhere.....

I will bet real money Martin is in StP to start the year.....

I don't think that would necessarily be a bad thing.  He has been decent now for 236 PA in AAA and not good with the bat since before the Twins acquired him.  He has certainly looked good this year, but with options would it be that bad having him start in AAA? 

I'd rather see MAT brought back and if Martin continues to excel with the bat he is a great depth option to bring up and could make MAT expendable.  This all of course depends on Buck of course....

[chpettit19]

36 minutes ago, FlyingFinn said:

What do people think about Martin in LF, Lewis in CF and Lee at 3B? And Martin and Lewis have position flexibility to allow for days off.

That's, to me, the ideal long term situation. Don't expect it to start next year by any means, but if they turn out to be who we hope that's what I'd like to see. With Martin turning into a bit more of a roving starter as ERod and Jenkins arrive (also assuming they turn out to be what we want).

[chpettit19]

10 minutes ago, Battle ur tail off said:

I really shouldn't need to explain it to you should I? 6 feet of range one way, 50 feet of range 3 different ways.

If Royce Lewis can't run 50 feet in any of 3 directions without blowing out his knee he's not someone we need to worry about anyways. This argument boils down to "he has to be an athlete in CF, and we can't expect our professional athlete to not get hurt being an athlete."

[Linus]

I think part of this depends on Martin. I’ve heard all kinds of mixed reports about his fielding. Some saying he isn’t good in the infield but good already in the outfield and vice versa. I’m a big fan of getting players in their best defensive position. 

[Mike Sixel]

2 hours ago, Battle ur tail off said:

I really shouldn't need to explain it to you should I? 6 feet of range one way, 50 feet of range 3 different ways.

So, no actual evidence, just your gut?

[saviking]

I agree with your assessment 100% Doc. And no, it's not too early as the Twins are about to wrap up the Central Division, and we have plenty of free time to think about next season before the playoffs. 

[Jeff K]

On 9/17/2023 at 9:09 PM, RpR said:

In all probablility Castro and Taylor will be back even if Buxton is in fairly decent shape.

How next spring does shape up though, should be quite intriguing

You know what:  Castro has really impressed in CF.  I wouldn't want him as the everyday guy, but he is incredibly valuable to the Twins and his CF play has been really good.  If Buxton is a no go for the position, then I like the idea of phasing Royce Lewis into the position.

[FlyingFinn]

On 9/19/2023 at 6:35 PM, Linus said:

I think part of this depends on Martin. I’ve heard all kinds of mixed reports about his fielding. Some saying he isn’t good in the infield but good already in the outfield and vice versa.

Curious, where have you heard the vice versa part because I never have?

[Rosterman]

It is too early to look outside the box. The hope would be that Buxton would return to centerfield, for at least 90+ games in 2024. That would solve a lot of problems.

It would mean the Twins wouldn't have to invest in a total replacement centerfielder.

Right now, it looks like Castro could fill the bill as the 4th outfielder who could play centerfield. The Twins also have to evaluate if Gordon is a good 4th outfielder (who can't play centerfield or shortstop).

Celestino has age on his side, but this will be a make-or-break spring training for him as, I believe, he is out of options. The Twins will likel;y add Keirsey to keep him out of the Rule 5 draft. I'm not sure if he is also eligible to become a minor league free agent if he isn't added. He isn't lights out in his brief AAA stint, so the Twins might try and keep him on the minor league roster.

At what point do the Twins make a hard decision on Royce Lewis. If Polanco is retained for 2024, then Julien will also need a place to play, maybe learning further skills at first base, plus a Buxton-free DH spot open for rotation. Is Kirilloff the 1st baseman for the future, and do the Twins need to sign him longterm. Is Lewis at thirdbase. Would he serve the team best in centerfield. Is Austin Martin the real deal and also in need of consideration for a spot on the field, or just the bench. Martin will need a 40-man add and will get it, but will still start 2024 in AAA, no doubt.

And where do they play Brooks Lee, come 2025.

 

The Twins are sitting pretty comfortable on inernal options. Sure, they lose 40+ homers with Gallo and Taylor leaving, but Wallner could be an option for the whole season. Lewis and Kirilloff fulltime can make up that difference. Miranda is still an AAA keeper as a backup at third and potentially 1B and should be given every opportunity to remain with the organization.

And I would take a minor league free agent flyer on Stevenson again, if terms can be reached. Garlick, probably not. Anyone know why Contreras was released by the Twins?

 

[Coach Wheels]

Willie Castro.