Twins CF In 2024...Is It Too Early To Talk About?

[DJL44]

2 hours ago, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

I like trying to ink MAT to another one-year contract

Taylor should definitely be able to find two years from a different team. The free agent CF market is very weak.

[chpettit19]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

This FO seems much more concerned about floor than ceiling.....I agree on Celestino. 

It'll be quite interesting to see how they manage the 40-man this offseason in regards to floor vs ceiling. It's going to start getting crowded with younger players and I'm fascinated to see how they handle things, and if they limit the number of 1 year vets they bring in as they start filling spots on the roster. Kyle Farmer is one I'll be watching. I'd non-tender him, but am interested to see what they do. 1 year vets will mean they don't trust the floor from the young guys, and that'll be frustrating.

[DJL44]

43 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Kyle Farmer is one I'll be watching. I'd non-tender him

Farmer might be the #1 SS in free agency if he was non-tendered. He is very tradeable.

[chpettit19]

7 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Farmer might be the #1 SS in free agency if he was non-tendered.

Yeah, the FA SS class this year is a significant downgrade from the last couple. I'm sure he'd appreciate the chance to pick his next team, and go somewhere that has a starting spot for him. Or pick his best chance to chase a ring. Whatever he prefers. I don't think he'll be worth whatever he'd get in his 3rd arb year, though, so I'd rather spend that money elsewhere.

[FlyingFinn]

26 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Farmer might be the #1 SS in free agency if he was non-tendered.

If he's going to be the most valuable SS on the market, wouldn't we want to tender him and trade him?

[chpettit19]

35 minutes ago, FlyingFinn said:

If he's going to be the most valuable SS on the market, wouldn't we want to tender him and trade him?

Not quite that simple. How much he makes changes how valuable he is. His arb 3 tender is likely higher than he could get on the open market. Much like the Eddie Rosario situation a couple years ago.

[DJL44]

16 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Not quite that simple. How much he makes changes how valuable he is. His arb 3 tender is likely higher than he could get on the open market. Much like the Eddie Rosario situation a couple years ago.

I doubt it. Rosario wasn't the best LF on the market.

I think it's more like Urshela last season. They'll get something about as valuable as what they traded to get Farmer, which wasn't that much.

[chpettit19]

8 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

I doubt it. Rosario wasn't the best LF on the market.

I think it's more like Urshela last season. They'll get something about as valuable as what they traded to get Farmer, which wasn't that much.

Rosario being the best on the market or not wasn't the problem, it was his cost. He wasn't worth his predicted 9ish mil salary. As shown by him not getting that on the market. Being the best on the market doesn't suddenly make him worth 9 mil.

Gio Urshela was coming off a 144 games played, 119 OPS+ season and was worth his roughly 8.5 mil final arb year salary. Kyle Farmer has never had even a 100 OPS+ season and won't be worth his 8.5ish mil salary for next year. If you wouldn't pay him 8.5 why would you not only pay him 8.5 but also give up any sort of prospect capital to get him? Now it only takes 1 team, and I'd hope the Twins are talking to teams before they non-tender him, but being best on the market doesn't automatically equal being worth his arb 3 salary and a prospect.

[cmoss84]

DH/2B Eddie J

2B/DH Polanco

3B Rolls Royce

1B Kirilloff

SS Correa

RF Wallner

C Jeffers

CF Martin

LF Buxton 

Brooks Lee utility

 

 

[GusGus11]

14 minutes ago, cmoss84 said:

DH/2B Eddie J

2B/DH Polanco

3B Rolls Royce

1B Kirilloff

SS Correa

RF Wallner

C Jeffers

CF Martin

LF Buxton 

Brooks Lee utility

 

 

Kepler is 100% having his option picked up. 

I'd offer Taylor a 1 year deal and see if he takes it. People that are worried about us "keeping the veteran all year" shouldnt be. Taylor only played as much this year because he literally had to, hes been a godsend. If Martin is ready or Lee is ready and Lewis goes to CF, Taylor would become a true bench player. But having his experience as a option has been so key this year.

I am also on the train of never ever seeing Celestino again. Let him try to break out somewhere else. Guy cant hit. Weve seen enough.

[cmoss84]

16 minutes ago, GusGus11 said:

Kepler is 100% having his option picked up. 

I'd offer Taylor a 1 year deal and see if he takes it. People that are worried about us "keeping the veteran all year" shouldnt be. Taylor only played as much this year because he literally had to, hes been a godsend. If Martin is ready or Lee is ready and Lewis goes to CF, Taylor would become a true bench player. But having his experience as a option has been so key this year.

I am also on the train of never ever seeing Celestino again. Let him try to break out somewhere else. Guy cant hit. Weve seen enough.

I could go either way on extending Kepler...and it probably will happen. I would rather use that $ on pitching.

I don't want Lewis playing OF and ending up like Buxton part II. I want Royce at 3B for 150 games. 

[nicksaviking]

5 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

This FO seems much more concerned about floor than ceiling.....I agree on Celestino. 

PERCIEVED floor. The guys they prefer still have sub .650 OPS floors, it's not like they're 'safe' players. It's all diminishing returns the lower you go on the ladder from an average hitter. I doubt a team wins many more games with a guy with a .650 OPS than they do with a guy with a .600 OPS. Both players are liabilities. At that point, just roster the guy with the most upside.

[Linus]

If Buck isn’t healthy then I put Royce there right away. The kid is such an athlete he would do amazing things. I also would bring MAT for one year. I’m hopeful on Martin but you can’t just plug him in there based on a good half season of AAA. And god no on Celestino. I would see if I could use him in a trade package. Short of that I would dfa him. Would rather have the 40 man spot. 

[Mike Sixel]

What more would Martin need to do? And, If MAT is here, he's the starter until hurt. They've shown that the last two years....

What would Martin need to do to "earn it" or "force his way onto the roster" other than be an elite defender, and hit at AAA while healthy?

[RpR]

1 hour ago, GusGus11 said:

Kepler is 100% having his option picked up. 

I'd offer Taylor a 1 year deal and see if he takes it. People that are worried about us "keeping the veteran all year" shouldnt be. Taylor only played as much this year because he literally had to, hes been a godsend. If Martin is ready or Lee is ready and Lewis goes to CF, Taylor would become a true bench player. But having his experience as a option has been so key this year.

I am also on the train of never ever seeing Celestino again. Let him try to break out somewhere else. Guy cant hit. Weve seen enough.

Just why does any one think Lewis, is going to be any where near as capable Center Fielder as Talylor or even Castro?

He is good with a bat and has not been a disaster at Third base, so,  instead of playing guessing games, leave him where he is doing well.

The rookies that are doing well this year, or turned out to be flops were not straight up from AAA, this is already the third year for some, and by some Magic 8 Ball, so many here are going to fill the team with unknown rookies who could easily be another batch of Rooker, Larnach, Blankenhorn, Celestino etc., etc., etc.

Good way to turn the Twins into the equivalent of Kansas City this year.

[cmoss84]

You all feel comfy cozy putting Royce in center? I'm lost...

[cmoss84]

6 hours ago, cmoss84 said:

DH/2B Eddie J

2B/DH Polanco

3B Rolls Royce

1B Kirilloff

SS Correa

RF Wallner

C Jeffers

CF Martin

LF Buxton 

Brooks Lee utility

 

 

 

6 hours ago, cmoss84 said:

DH/2B Eddie J

2B/DH Polanco

3B Rolls Royce

1B Kirilloff

SS Correa

RF Wallner

C Jeffers

CF Martin

LF Buxton 

Brooks Lee utility

 

 

RPR I'm interested on your lineup or reasoning for thumbs down? 

[nicksaviking]

5 hours ago, RpR said:

The rookies that are doing well this year, or turned out to be flops were not straight up from AAA, this is already the third year for some, and by some Magic 8 Ball, so many here are going to fill the team with unknown rookies who could easily be another batch of Rooker, Larnach, Blankenhorn, Celestino etc., etc., etc.

Good way to turn the Twins into the equivalent of Kansas City this year.

The veterans have been flops way more often than the young guys the last two years.

And where are they supposed to come from if not straight from AAA? Do you mean they need to get called up, optioned down and then called up again? Then do that if needed. Especially since, as you acknowledged, it's working. Why delay the process?

[Fat Calvin]

12 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Martin or Lewis to CF. That's what I'd do. 

I think they'll bring back MAT, they love veterans. Just love them. Plus then they can have Martin wasting his prime in AAA as depth. And Lewis will be at third. 

Also, the FO better be thinking about this right now. That's their job. 

 

Martin and Lewis (Dean and Jerry), it's a winning combo!

[wabene]

7 hours ago, cmoss84 said:

You all feel comfy cozy putting Royce in center? I'm lost...

What evidence exists that shows center field is more dangerous than 3rd base? 

[chpettit19]

14 hours ago, RpR said:

Just why does any one think Lewis, is going to be any where near as capable Center Fielder as Talylor or even Castro?

Cuz we've seen him do it. Pretty simple answer. Go watch his AFL games, and even just watch the play he got hurt on. We've seen with our eyes what Royce can do in CF.

[chpettit19]

9 hours ago, cmoss84 said:

You all feel comfy cozy putting Royce in center? I'm lost...

Why shouldn't we be comfy cozy with it? What's the concern? We've seen him star out there in the AFL. We saw him make plays out there in St Paul. We saw him make an outstanding catch out there in Minneapolis. Why wouldn't we be comfortable with playing Royce in CF?

[TopGunn#22]

I'd put Lewis there from the get-go.  We have plenty of depth in the IF and corner OF and a need in CF.  As chpettit19 pointed out, we've seen Lewis more than "handle" CF from his time in the AFL and St. Paul.  He can do it.  It would turn a weak position into a strong one.

Option #2:  I would like to see what Austin Martin could do there as well.  Martin in CF, with his speed and on-base skills would be a welcome addition to the big league roster.  In a pinch, you still have Castro and possibly Nick Gordon for CF.

Farmer will not be brought back.  That $8.5 million or so needs to be used for bullpen improvements. 

If I had to make a trade, the guy I'd target would be Tyler O'Neill of the Cardinals.  The Redbird OF is overcrowded with talent.  Something has to give.  Just a couple years ago the RH hitting O'Neill blasted 34 HR's.  He can play all 3 OF positions but if acquired would spend most of his time in LF/CF and hit about #6 in the lineup.  Nootbar is in CF and Jordan Walker in RF for the Cards.  They still have Carlson, Burleson and Palacios among others in their OF.  A deal of Winder and Schoebel would be more than fair.   

And Rodriguez and Jenkins are coming.  

[cmoss84]

2 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

Why shouldn't we be comfy cozy with it? What's the concern? We've seen him star out there in the AFL. We saw him make plays out there in St Paul. We saw him make an outstanding catch out there in Minneapolis. Why wouldn't we be comfortable with playing Royce in CF?

https://www.mlb.com/news/royce-lewis-has-torn-acl-for-second-time

remember this? One is enough for me. His bat is too important. Much rather have Martin/MAT/Kepler in center and Lewis at 3B where he can mash an entire season. Like I said, don't need Buxton part II. Buxton can play left and not run into fences as well. 

[chpettit19]

39 minutes ago, cmoss84 said:

https://www.mlb.com/news/royce-lewis-has-torn-acl-for-second-time

remember this? One is enough for me. His bat is too important. Much rather have Martin/MAT/Kepler in center and Lewis at 3B where he can mash an entire season. Like I said, don't need Buxton part II. Buxton can play left and not run into fences as well. 

Acuna Jr tore his playing RF, should the Braves not put him out there ever again? Adalberto Mondesi tore his twice running the bases, one of those times was just taking a lead, not even stealing or running, should he just retire? Whole slew of pitchers have torn theirs fielding balls off the mound, or covering 1st, should we tell our pitchers to never try to field a ball or cover first? Gavin Lux just tore his in spring training this year running to 3rd, should the Dodgers never let him run the bases? Rhys Hoskins tore his in spring training fielding a ball at first base, should he be a DH only now? Kyle Schwarber tore his playing LF, should the Phillies only DH him? Going to be hard considering Hoskins also has to DH since he tore his fielding. Mariano Rivera tore his back in the day simply shagging fly balls. Wilson Ramos tore his fielding a slow roller in front of home plate, should he never try to field a ball again? Edwin Diaz didn't tear his ACL, but did tear his patellar celebrating a win in the WBC, should he never celebrate again? Royce tore his the first time slipping on some ice, should we make sure he's never around ice ever again?

Yeah, I remember that, and don't buy it as an excuse to not let him play CF when that's the defensive alignment that would allow for the Twins to put their best team on the field. I also saw Lewis tweak his ankle just fielding a grounder at third the other day. Playing a sport, especially as hard as Lewis plays, is inherently dangerous. Until someone can show definitive proof that CF is more dangerous I'm not going to let one freak injury stop me from fielding my best team.

You know there are more fences in LF than CF, right? If just avoiding fences is the goal I'm not sure why you'd move a player to the place that has more fences. And most of Buxton's injuries happen on offense, not defense, so the "Buxton part II" thing isn't a reason not to put him in CF either.

[cmoss84]

10 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Acuna Jr tore his playing RF, should the Braves not put him out there ever again? Adalberto Mondesi tore his twice running the bases, one of those times was just taking a lead, not even stealing or running, should he just retire? Whole slew of pitchers have torn theirs fielding balls off the mound, or covering 1st, should we tell our pitchers to never try to field a ball or cover first? Gavin Lux just tore his in spring training this year running to 3rd, should the Dodgers never let him run the bases? Rhys Hoskins tore his in spring training fielding a ball at first base, should he be a DH only now? Kyle Schwarber tore his playing LF, should the Phillies only DH him? Going to be hard considering Hoskins also has to DH since he tore his fielding. Mariano Rivera tore his back in the day simply shagging fly balls. Wilson Ramos tore his fielding a slow roller in front of home plate, should he never try to field a ball again? Edwin Diaz didn't tear his ACL, but did tear his patellar celebrating a win in the WBC, should he never celebrate again? Royce tore his the first time slipping on some ice, should we make sure he's never around ice ever again?

Yeah, I remember that, and don't buy it as an excuse to not let him play CF when that's the defensive alignment that would allow for the Twins to put their best team on the field. I also saw Lewis tweak his ankle just fielding a grounder at third the other day. Playing a sport, especially as hard as Lewis plays, is inherently dangerous. Until someone can show definitive proof that CF is more dangerous I'm not going to let one freak injury stop me from fielding my best team.

You know there are more fences in LF than CF, right? If just avoiding fences is the goal I'm not sure why you'd move a player to the place that has more fences. And most of Buxton's injuries happen on offense, not defense, so the "Buxton part II" thing isn't a reason not to put him in CF either.

My overall point is Lewis is our first potential legit hitter/MVP candidate since...?

I want him at 3B. You want him in CF. We obviously have very different opinions on this...all good. 

[Mike Sixel]

Not one person can show data CF is riskier than the IF.....

[cmoss84]

5 hours ago, wabene said:

What evidence exists that shows center field is more dangerous than 3rd base? 

My opinion and my experience from coaching and playing....that is all. Take it for what it is worth or dont take it at all. Good either way. 

[cmoss84]

3 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Not one person can show data CF is riskier than the IF.....

Just my opinion my friend. 

[stringer bell]

I don’t believe in omens and jinxes, but it was Lewis’ first, and so far only time in Target Field as a center fielder. Lewis is a very valuable asset for the Twins, perhaps their most valuable. If he doesn’t want to play center for whatever reason, it probably isn’t in the Twins’ best interest to compel him. 
 

In listening to Gleeman and the Geek, they cite Twins sources that like Lee as a third baseman, if he can’t play SS. That creates a quandary on where to play Lewis long term. I’m not sure what the answer is and things have a way of working themselves out. 
 

Julien might be a 1B-2B-DH and Kirilloff might be a 1B-LF-RF, leaving more infield room for Lewis, Lee and Correa. Putting the pieces together is what the FO is paid far.