The Best Player the Twins Could Acquire at the Trade Deadline

[TwinsDr2021]

35 minutes ago, PatPfund said:

 who the team cannot or will not move to make way for potential in-house solutions (like Wallner, Miranda, Larnach).

Solutions that can't sit forever unused, because they will need to be protected or dealt or exposed, and they are all at an age where they should be getting some run. I get it with Carlos, I get it a bit with Byron (though they go to ridiculous lengths to keep him off the IL with serious negative impacts on the offense), and I don't get it at all with Kepler and Gallo. They've had almost half a season to show they are critical (and they aren't), there is almost no chance they are here next year, and Wallner/Larnach/Stevenson/Celestino could almost certainly replace them at the plate, and mostly in the field. I don't think it is bailing on the season to dump Kepler/Gallo; you are just taking a chance on one or more youngsters catching fire. And if they don't, the Twins need to know before the season is over. Clear the deadwood, look in-house for hitting, bolster the 'pen, and take your chances.

The way Miranda and Larnach played prior to being demoted is one of the reasons this offense was so bad. Not sure swapping out Gallo and Kepler for those two is a positive. Wallner hasn't been given much of a chance but there seems to be something this FO doesn't like about his game, because if you aren't going to give him a chance at age 25 with as bad as Kepler has played when are you ever going to give him a chance?

 

[SwainZag]

3 hours ago, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

IMO the Cards would want Lewis or Lee for him and at 35-years old that is definitely not worth it.  Also, as others have stated, we are not one player away.  If we could get him for lesser prospects then I maybe would be interested.  He also may take away at-bats from Kirilloff at 1B as I doubt Rocco would make Kirilloff the FT left-fielder.

IMO there's no way Lewis or Lee are going anywhere.   I know Goldy is the reigning MVP, but he's soon to be 36 and outside of 2019 it's the lowest it's been in over a decade.   

That being said.... I'm not sure who the Twins would offer.  If the Cards move him, the deadline would probably be when his value is at its highest. 

[Rochester23]

Oh please !   The team gave away the world for that sore armed Mathe and he wasn't even a good pitcher . Steer and Strand are killing it and we are stuck yet again with another picture with injury problems.Mathe is a joke and we will probably never see Paddock.

[chpettit19]

27 minutes ago, Rochester23 said:

Oh please !   The team gave away the world for that sore armed Mathe and he wasn't even a good pitcher . Steer and Strand are killing it and we are stuck yet again with another picture with injury problems.Mathe is a joke and we will probably never see Paddock.

Welcome to Twins Daily! Coming out firing on the first post. Respect is the #1 thing around here, so we like to avoid statements like "Mathe (his name is Mahle, FYI) is a joke," so please find other ways to voice your displeasure in the future. You are not alone in your frustrations with Mahle, and that trade, so definitely feel free to voice those concerns, but please avoid name calling, and disrespect when doing so.

What is your reasoning for thinking we'll never see Paddack? You're not the first person to suggest that, but I'm curious why you think that when he's already throwing bullpens, and is set to return to the team this season in a likely bullpen role in September. That extension is going to look awfully bad if he doesn't pitch at all the next 2 years we have him signed for.

[gman]

I'd swap Kepler for Wallner or Larnach, then I'd swap Gallo for the other. Our hitting would improve.

[jishfish]

Young bat (Larnach/Wallner/Miranda/Julien) + Varland for Goldy + Jordan Hicks (FA at end of the year)?

Twins have a log jam of 24-26 year old position players who aren't really prospects anymore but also don't have a path to any clear playing time. I would rather ship one of them off than let them toil in the minors for another year.

Parting with Varland would stink, especially because he's such a good story as a home grown kid. With that being said, he also has been nothing more than average in his first 15 MLB starts (small sample, I know), and I know I've seen it thrown around that he could eventually be a guy that moves to the bullpen. At the same time, we would then be one SP injury away from Headrick or Winder starting every 5th day which I definitely don't love.

Personally I do this every single time, but I'm sure a lot of others are in the "never in a million years bucket". I think this would be the sort of package it would take though.
 

[chpettit19]

47 minutes ago, jishfish said:

Young bat (Larnach/Wallner/Miranda/Julien) + Varland for Goldy + Jordan Hicks (FA at end of the year)?

Twins have a log jam of 24-26 year old position players who aren't really prospects anymore but also don't have a path to any clear playing time. I would rather ship one of them off than let them toil in the minors for another year.

Parting with Varland would stink, especially because he's such a good story as a home grown kid. With that being said, he also has been nothing more than average in his first 15 MLB starts (small sample, I know), and I know I've seen it thrown around that he could eventually be a guy that moves to the bullpen. At the same time, we would then be one SP injury away from Headrick or Winder starting every 5th day which I definitely don't love.

Personally I do this every single time, but I'm sure a lot of others are in the "never in a million years bucket". I think this would be the sort of package it would take though.
 

I think St Louis would be looking for significantly more ceiling in the return for the reigning MVP.

[Mike Sixel]

6 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

I see four guys that need to be protected for sure.  Camargo, Severino, Prato, Soularie.  Maybe Kiersey too given the position he plays.  They could protect 2-3 others.  Take your choice.  If you could pick up a BP arm for one of the others that would be great.  I don't see any of the others bringing an impact bat.

Enlow....

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, jishfish said:

Young bat (Larnach/Wallner/Miranda/Julien) + Varland for Goldy + Jordan Hicks (FA at end of the year)?

Twins have a log jam of 24-26 year old position players who aren't really prospects anymore but also don't have a path to any clear playing time. I would rather ship one of them off than let them toil in the minors for another year.

Parting with Varland would stink, especially because he's such a good story as a home grown kid. With that being said, he also has been nothing more than average in his first 15 MLB starts (small sample, I know), and I know I've seen it thrown around that he could eventually be a guy that moves to the bullpen. At the same time, we would then be one SP injury away from Headrick or Winder starting every 5th day which I definitely don't love.

Personally I do this every single time, but I'm sure a lot of others are in the "never in a million years bucket". I think this would be the sort of package it would take though.
 

How do you expect to replace Varland (and Gray next year)? No chance they deal Varland, IMO.

[Shaitan]

8 hours ago, USAFChief said:

I don't think there's much future in playing for the future.

Thinking past the current season in big league baseball is wishful thinking. 

Got a chance? Go for it. Prospects are Prospects. Most won't end up being big losses and there's always more Prospects.

 

I agree, but with the short-term future in mind. Have a 2-3 year plan with flex space.

Which, quite honestly, is what I think this FO has been building toward since Day One. It just takes a while to get there in baseball. Now, if they trade our top prospects this year for rentals I'll eat crow there. But I suspect they're done trading near-ready prospects unless they're redundant hitters-without-a-position (and I think STP is out of those).

[Shaitan]

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

How do you expect to replace Varland (and Gray next year)? No chance they deal Varland, IMO.

If they make multiple moves I could see it happen. Get an A wildcard pitcher in the deal, then make another move for a new Joe Ryan "near ready" level pitcher.

But I agree. I think that's a long shot. As I said in a different post, I think the last two years were the building blocks of this FO. This year they make modest moves and wait for the future. Unless there's a way to add some minor league SP prospects, which was the CLE path.

[DocBauer]

On the surface, this move makes sense as he can fit at 1B and Kirilloff can play an OF corner. And I like him as a target much more than an OF as the biggest problem there remains, IMO, no long term opportunities for Larnach and Wallner.

But do the Cardinals even want to move him? They never seem to stay down long. So they might still see him as part of 2024 at 1B/DH. 

And until/unless we get some corner OF production, get Correa to continue seemingly getting hot, and Buxton to also keep looking better, which he has, can Goldschmidt make enough of a difference by himself if those things don't happen, or continue to trend positively?

And what would he cost? The system is barren. We had a great looking draft last year and have the potential for another good one this year. But we've traded a lot of good players the past 2yrs. Personally, I'm still pretty optimistic about the offense when I look at the younger players just arriving, or recently arrived, or not far from debuting. And I hate to move even more prospects for a veteran unless the Twins are trending up offensively and they really believe he can make a difference. I'm just a little guarded about the cost vs the impact of him as a return.

But yes, I'd love to have him!

I'm still thinking a solid pen rental that might be re-signed and go young in the lineup and try to re-work in a younger offense. You'll never know what you have if you don't try.

[JD-TWINS]

21 hours ago, Brandon said:

What would it take to trade for him?  They desperately need controllable starting pitching so Ober and Woods-Richardson and Julien and Marco Raya or David Festa could work if Saint Louis is ok with those pitchers.  But that is what it would take to get him.

Also Saint Louis is playing better.  so unless we trade them controllable starting pitching I doubt they would be interested.  

Trading Ober would be about as bad an idea as I can imagine. He’s a walking “quality start”! Our available AAA level guys aren’t going to excite anybody. To me, Julien - Miranda - Martin are all eligible for a decent return.

Goldschmidt is way too good of a player for way too good of a cost (mid $20’sM) for St. Louis to worry about or seriously consider  moving - they draw 3 million per year nearly every year & have plenty of $$. He was MVP last year w/o a big decline in ‘23. He’s not going anywhere! ……..maybe in ‘24 if they are not competitive?

[Blyleven2011]

He's not on my Christmas list ...

Though I think he would help the offense , he just wouldn't be enough to help this offense  ,,,

We are a flawed team  and come deadline if we are still a flawed team , we should be sellers  ...

What a waste of the starting pitchers this year ...

[Major League Ready]

22 hours ago, USAFChief said:

I don't think there's much future in playing for the future.

Thinking past the current season in big league baseball is wishful thinking. 

Got a chance? Go for it. Prospects are Prospects. Most won't end up being big losses and there's always more Prospects.

 

The Rays got nothing out of Cruz and we got 6 years of Joe Ryan.  The Dbacks went nowhere with Escobar and we got 6 years of Duran.  We got nothing out of Mahle and Lopez.  Steer was the National League rookie of the month in May and CES is a top 5 bat in AAA.  Of course, many of the other  players we gave away could become very productive players and the examples go on and on.  The vast majority of deadline acquisitions do not result in a post season success.  Trading long-term assets for short-term assets is fanatical, certainly not logical.

I heard the "wishful thinking" talk and insistence on the need to go for it so many times that I gathered the hard data in the form of acquisition method for top players for every 90 win team in the past 20 years.  It's not that hard to determine how the best teams were built given all the tools we have available.  The facts are very clear if you actually are willing to look at the actual construction of winning teams.  The facts are that trading for prospects is overwhelming more important than trading for proven players, especially for teams outside the top 10 in revenue.  

Throwing good money after bad is never a good idea and this team presently is not worthy of investment for short-term gain.

[Brandon]

54 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

Trading Ober would be about as bad an idea as I can imagine. He’s a walking “quality start”! Our available AAA level guys aren’t going to excite anybody. To me, Julien - Miranda - Martin are all eligible for a decent return.

Goldschmidt is way too good of a player for way too good of a cost (mid $20’sM) for St. Louis to worry about or seriously consider  moving - they draw 3 million per year nearly every year & have plenty of $$. He was MVP last year w/o a big decline in ‘23. He’s not going anywhere! ……..maybe in ‘24 if they are not competitive?

Goldschmidt is an MVP caliber player. You have to give to get.  St Louis is in the same position as the Twins with their pitching.  They have 4 or 5 starters eligible for free agency and little in the minors that’s ready.  So if they trade their MVP.  You can bet they want controllable starting pitchers.

[Otaknam]

The Twins would never consider trading Lewis or Lee for Goldschmidt as someone suggested. With Goldy’s $22 million contract for this year and next it would be a salary dump for St. Louis. Maybe Larnach would get a deal done, who seems to be a young version of Joey Gallo without the gold glove defense. And the Twins have other lefty power hitting outfielders like Wallner, who I think has a higher ceiling than Larnach. Goldschmidt’s bat would clearly be an big upgrade from Gallo, and Kiriloff could play the outfield to make room. That said, this team has sputtered offensively all year, mostly because Correa and Buxton haven’t produced. Unless those two guys get going this is a .500 team at best and is going nowhere if they make the playoffs. Hopefully the FO understands that and doesn’t continue decimating the minors in hopes of winning a playoff series. 

[JD-TWINS]

43 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Goldschmidt is an MVP caliber player. You have to give to get.  St Louis is in the same position as the Twins with their pitching.  They have 4 or 5 starters eligible for free agency and little in the minors that’s ready.  So if they trade their MVP.  You can bet they want controllable starting pitchers.

They won’t trade an MVP out of that market. They let Albert age and then pick his own team/contract. Not the same as Goldschmidt but as reigning MVP and current run producer, they don’t need to trade him to solve issues. They have (on paper) a glut of potential in young OF talent. Arenado/Goldschmidt bring them leadership & consistency & ability.

Ober, with 5 years of control for a guy that displaces Solano the balance of this year & any chance Miranda may have to play going forward, is not a good move for 18 months.

Teach Buxton to play 1B in ‘24 before trading away pitching.

[Brandon]

1 hour ago, JD-TWINS said:

They won’t trade an MVP out of that market. They let Albert age and then pick his own team/contract. Not the same as Goldschmidt but as reigning MVP and current run producer, they don’t need to trade him to solve issues. They have (on paper) a glut of potential in young OF talent. Arenado/Goldschmidt bring them leadership & consistency & ability.

Ober, with 5 years of control for a guy that displaces Solano the balance of this year & any chance Miranda may have to play going forward, is not a good move for 18 months.

Teach Buxton to play 1B in ‘24 before trading away pitching.

I agree.  I’m just going along with the premise of acquiring Goldschmidt and what it would cost to get him. 

[Cris E]

22 hours ago, Rochester23 said:

Oh please !   The team gave away the world for that sore armed Mathe and he wasn't even a good pitcher . Steer and Strand are killing it and we are stuck yet again with another picture with injury problems.Mathe is a joke and we will probably never see Paddock.

Strand and Steer were not huge prospects last year. In fact neither was ever listed anywhere on the Twins' top 30 prospects list on MLB.com going back to their draft years.  This was a little luck on the Reds' part combined with a traffic jam in the Twins' system. Don't over-react to a pitcher getting injured (they all do at some point) and Paddack had nothing to do with this. 

Take a deep breath, look at where you're deep and where you have gaps and consider what trades make sense, then go ahead and propose something better. You'll be shocked at how hard it is once you get past the idea that fair valuations make many trades painful for both sides.

[Loops]

Giving up a lot (probably) to get Goldschmidt to obtain yet another 1B/DH does not seem like the most intelligent thing to do. We are more than one hitter away from scoring runs. Hitting philosophy is poor right now. It is home runs or nothing and we are getting nothing.

[KBJ1]

No. They could have had Hosmer,  salary paid for free last year. As good as Goldy is, at 22M, no thanks.

The Twins core (Buxton ,Correa, Polanco, Kepler, Gallo) is an unmitigated disaster this season.  Frankly, at this point I would dump them ALL!

Solano has been our best hitter so far. Go figure. Bring up the youngsters, get some bullpen help and play for the future.

[TNtwins85]

On 6/26/2023 at 9:31 AM, Riverbrian said:

For those who are waiting to be better before trying to get better. 

Our pitching staff is pretty dang good. 

Getting them some offensive breathing room is a good idea. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We’ve done pretty well against the teams we typically struggle against. If we can get a bat to get this offense going and maybe another bullpen guy I think we have something. This pitching staff has done what you have to do against the top teams for the most part. After 2 bad seasons and the division up for grabs to whoever can play .500 plus ball I think you’ve gotta go for it. If we keep waiting for prospects we’ll forever be waiting for prospects. The postseason is all about momentum and a few lucky breaks along the way. This pitching staff has that “it” factor. We just need to score more than 2 runs in a game.

[Riverbrian]

53 minutes ago, TNtwins85 said:

We’ve done pretty well against the teams we typically struggle against. If we can get a bat to get this offense going and maybe another bullpen guy I think we have something. This pitching staff has done what you have to do against the top teams for the most part. After 2 bad seasons and the division up for grabs to whoever can play .500 plus ball I think you’ve gotta go for it. If we keep waiting for prospects we’ll forever be waiting for prospects. The postseason is all about momentum and a few lucky breaks along the way. This pitching staff has that “it” factor. We just need to score more than 2 runs in a game.

Offensive output can change quickly if Buxton and Correa just do what they should be doing and if Gallo and Kepler are removed from the equation.

You quickly gain a couple of top hitters and shed a couple of bottom hitters. Those two things would be an incredible improvement. 

Now... bring in a hitter and add to it. 

This pitching staff is good. Let's help them out. 

[TNtwins85]

35 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Offensive output can change quickly if Buxton and Correa just do what they should be doing and if Gallo and Kepler are removed from the equation.

You quickly gain a couple of top hitters and shed a couple of bottom hitters. Those two things would be an incredible improvement. 

Now... bring in a hitter and add to it. 

This pitching staff is good. Let's help them out. 

Exactly! I’m not sure what the cards are looking for but surely we can make a package! The big thing is getting Kepler and gallo out of there. Home runs are great but when there’s no one on and we’re only getting 1 run every 15 AB’s or when there is and they’re striking out and killing innings on 3 pitches it’s demoralizing for momentum and morale.

[Jacksson]

Switch to a different flavor of Kool-Aid.

Goldschmidt is not an answer,  just costs resources and gums up team chemistry.

Can't help but think that the Gallo signing by the Twins was a "reward" to the Boras Organization for him circling back to the Twins with Correa after both Boras and Correa were embarrassed by the Giants and Mets.

Gallo + Taylor + Kepler are the WORST OFFENSIVE OUTFIELD in the MLB.

If there is an area of intense need it is for a provenquality outfielder who can hit for average.

How is running and hitting GOOD for Buxton's knee??  Put him on the 60 day DL, Tell him to go home, rest,recover, rehab.

Dump both Gallo & Kepler, Taylor becomes outfielder #4.

This creates 3 open spots on the 40 man roster (Buxton, Gallo, Kepler)

Lewis + Farmer + Julian + Kirilloff in the infield.  Solano backing  up 3B, 2B, 1B

Larnach + Castro + Wallner in the OF

Miranda comes back as DH

Correa picks slivers and looks at tape from prior years to figure out what is wrong & gets a physical at the Mayo Clinic.

Also, at the All-Star Break: EVERY PLAYER gets a Complete Physical and a Through Eye Exam from a a Certified Ophthalmologist.

Fire and replace both the Hitting Coach and the Assistant Hitting Coach

 

Any or all of the above; either at the same time or gradually.