Chasing Madison Bumgarner Thread

[cmoss84]

Going to be weird seeing MadBum in a uniform other than the Giants, but I do hope it is ours. He seems like he would be a good complimentary pitcher to Berrios and Odorizzi...and Graterol/Balozovic whenever they come up. 

[Mike Sixel]

I am a fan as a pitcher. I'm not a fan of him being part of the fun police.......

[USAFChief]

 

I am a fan as a pitcher. I'm not a fan of him being part of the fun police.......

I'd forgotten about that.

 

UP THE BID!!!

[sweetmusicviola16]

 

I agree. If they can't sign Madbum they HAVE to sign Pineda (and i'm not a huge fan of signing cheaters to contracts, because of personality flaws) otherwise this team is in big trouble in 2020. Who is going to take over the 96 starts of Perez, Gibson and Pineda (assuming they don't resign him)? That's a massive hole in the rotation.  To make matters worse MANY of the early wins in 2019 were on the back of Perez before he dropped off. Somehow the Twins are gonna have to replace that.  

 

I would in fact argue they need to sign BOTH. It's not that i don't have faith in the Twins pitching prospects on the way up there just isn't that much there that hasn't flopped already.

 

Who have they graduated recently that looks like to be mid to front of the rotation talent (besides Berrios)? Perhaps Graterol gets their, but he's got a lot of work ahead of him if he wants to be a starter in MLB. Smeltzer, Dobnak and Thorpe are #5 starters at best. Littell is a reliever. Romero had glimpses in 2018 but it seems that the Twins have given up on him as a starting pitcher based on his usage in 2019 Rochester which is unfortunate. 

 

Who else is there? As I said many times already, I fear that this team suffers the same fate as the Texas Rangers teams of the early to mid 2000's (all hitting little to no pitching). 

There has got to be a different plan than relying on 3 guys for 3-5 with a total of 87 career IP, and Smeltzer who had the most was getting hit around in later August and September. I see them signing two tier 3 guys, Pineda and another like Tehran and a bounceback guy like Wood or Gausman. A team that if things go right will contend for the AL Central. These are the Pohlad Twins. When we do have good teams the investments aren't made to put it over the top. The 2,000's are the case in point.

[sweetmusicviola16]

But I agree. If Pineda is one of the guys they better pin him down quickly. Lots of rumblings about the BlueJays and Rangers wanting him. I myself would prefer one of the bigger 5 that remain and someone like Tehran who haven't been caught and suspended with PED's.

[laloesch]

You're making stuff up.

 

Accusing them of deceit reflects on you, not them.

I don't think so. Look in the mirror.

[bird]

 

I don't think so. Look in the mirror.

 

 

Then perhaps you can back up what you said with, um, facts and stuff? 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Okay, let's move on and stay on topic, or restate arguments to comply with our posting standards  

[nokomismod]

 

Maybe we can get the MN DNR involved and give him permission to lasso the bison that they started keeping at Minneopa State Park not too long ago.

Yes, these creative perks we can offer. I was also thinking the local park police could allow him to drive his ATV from the western burbs on the bike path leading up to Target field. Let's sign this guy!

[adorduan]

 

I agree. If they can't sign Madbum they HAVE to sign Pineda (and i'm not a huge fan of signing cheaters to contracts, because of personality flaws) otherwise this team is in big trouble in 2020. Who is going to take over the 96 starts of Perez, Gibson and Pineda (assuming they don't resign him)? That's a massive hole in the rotation.  To make matters worse MANY of the early wins in 2019 were on the back of Perez before he dropped off. Somehow the Twins are gonna have to replace that.  

 

I would in fact argue they need to sign BOTH. It's not that i don't have faith in the Twins pitching prospects on the way up there just isn't that much there that hasn't flopped already.

 

Who have they graduated recently that looks like to be mid to front of the rotation talent (besides Berrios)? Perhaps Graterol gets their, but he's got a lot of work ahead of him if he wants to be a starter in MLB. Smeltzer, Dobnak and Thorpe are #5 starters at best. Littell is a reliever. Romero had glimpses in 2018 but it seems that the Twins have given up on him as a starting pitcher based on his usage in 2019 Rochester which is unfortunate. 

 

Who else is there? As I said many times already, I fear that this team suffers the same fate as the Texas Rangers teams of the early to mid 2000's (all hitting little to no pitching). 

So I take it you don't like the Polanco extension? Just askin....

[nicksaviking]

 

I am a fan as a pitcher. I'm not a fan of him being part of the fun police.......

 

Yeah, I'm kind of torn. I'm not sure if he's a good clubhouse guy or not, but I'm not interested in getting into beanball wars and antagonizing the division rivals. Especially if the division rivals mostly are terrible teams and have less to lose than the Twins do.

[TFRazor]

 

I don't care much for Keuchel. The Braves signing Hamels might be good as lots of prognosticators had him going back towards home. Hamels is only on a one year deal though, It wouldn't necessarily preclude a Bumgarner signing. With all their young arms, they might not be interested in multi year deals for starters though.

 

I don't know enough about Bumgarner's personality, but he's kind of escaping a rebuild situation. So if he's not really feeling hot about teaching a bunch of young starters how to wipe their noses, he may prefer joining up with Odorizzi and Berrios instead.

Braves have already spent 98 million this offseason. I don't see them making many more big money moves

[TFRazor]

 

So I take it you don't like the Polanco extension? Just askin....

Or that we signed Cruz at all...

[Major League Ready]

 

Braves have already spent 98 million this offseason. I don't see them making many more big money moves

 

The added about 42M AAV but they also shed about 50M from last year. Of course, they have arbitration increases as well but I would guess their projected payroll is about the same as last year which was under $120M. Their revenue was $75M more than the Twins in 2018 so I suspect they have the capacity to add to payroll.

[Dman]

 

There has got to be a different plan than relying on 3 guys for 3-5 with a total of 87 career IP, and Smeltzer who had the most was getting hit around in later August and September. I see them signing two tier 3 guys, Pineda and another like Tehran and a bounceback guy like Wood or Gausman. A team that if things go right will contend for the AL Central. These are the Pohlad Twins. When we do have good teams the investments aren't made to put it over the top. The 2,000's are the case in point.

 

I agree.  I don't think the Twins will ultimately like the AAV and the years needed to land him.  I think they will look for better value for their money. If that is the case then I agree they would have the money for another tier three guy or reclamation project or two.  Could also try and pull off a trade but it would likely be hard to find a team willing to give up young pitching for potential Left fielders and 1st basemen.  They already have lots of young 5th starter types so don't need more of those.  I don't see the Twins going over 4\80 to sign MadBum and it looks like it will take more than that to get him.

[bunsen82]

 

I agree.  I don't think the Twins will ultimately like the AAV and the years needed to land him.  I think they will look for better value for their money. If that is the case then I agree they would have the money for another tier three guy or reclamation project or two.  Could also try and pull off a trade but it would likely be hard to find a team willing to give up young pitching for potential Left fielders and 1st basemen.  They already have lots of young 5th starter types so don't need more of those.  I don't see the Twins going over 4\80 to sign MadBum and it looks like it will take more than that to get him.

 

I can see 4/80 getting the deal done.  With the draft compensation it lowers the potential compensation and I don't think there are as many suitors as there were for Wheeler for a variety of reasons. 

[Dman]

 

I can see 4/80 getting the deal done.  With the draft compensation it lowers the potential compensation and I don't think there are as many suitors as there were for Wheeler for a variety of reasons. 

 

I hope you are right as I think 20 per year is the highest they will go as that was AAV they had for Wheeler and obviously they liked him better. We will see they could still surprise me.

[blindeke]

I don't like paying a premium for what someone did four years ago. I'm much more interested in four years from now...

[dex8425]

 

I don't like paying a premium for what someone did four years ago. I'm much more interested in four years from now...

Agreed, though having a guy with the best postseason resume of any current MLB pitcher probably helps our young staff somewhat. Clearly we have postseason issues. 

[Mike Sixel]

I don't like paying a premium for what someone did four years ago. I'm much more interested in four years from now...

And which free agent that they can afford will be the best over there next three or four, in your mind?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I would be interested to know what Bumgarner is asking, or open to, as far as contract length.

 

I was hoping the Twins would sneak past everyone and get him on a 3/76 contract or something similar.

[howeda7]

 

Agreed, though having a guy with the best postseason resume of any current MLB pitcher probably helps our young staff somewhat. Clearly we have postseason issues. 

This. We desperately need someone who won't pee down their leg if they have to start a game at Yankee stadium.

[Otto von Ballpark]

This. We desperately need someone who won't pee down their leg if they have to start a game at Yankee stadium.

So, no to Pineda and his diuretics?

[strumdatjaguar]

Do you really want to see MadBum pitching here in th last two years of a 4 year contract at ages 34 and 35???  He's already lost velocity.  I'd do two years with a team option for a third.  But some dumb team will give him more.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

Do you really want to see MadBum pitching here in th last two years of a 4 year contract at ages 34 and 35???  He's already lost velocity.  I'd do two years with a team option for a third.  But some dumb team will give him more.

Well, what are the firs​t two years of that 4 year contract worth to you?

 

For example, I just suggested three years, seventy six mil. That bridges us to the development of the high minors guys and hypothetical Berrios extension--and gives us a postseason guy. Which we desperately needed last time. 

[Mike Sixel]

Do you really want to see MadBum pitching here in th last two years of a 4 year contract at ages 34 and 35??? He's already lost velocity. I'd do two years with a team option for a third. But some dumb team will give him more.

What's your better plan? He's not signing a two year deal. Who is the better pitcher, that is available that this team can sign?

[wabene]

 

Do you really want to see MadBum pitching here in th last two years of a 4 year contract at ages 34 and 35???  He's already lost velocity.  I'd do two years with a team option for a third.  But some dumb team will give him more.

 

He is two years removed from the dirt bike shoulder injury and his velocity and spin rate came up last year to pre-injury levels. That is what I would hang my hat on. He is a bulldog and seems to have good pitch-ability so I like the intangibles. However the flip side would be the obstinance and temper he sometimes shows makes me wonder how open he would be to innovative coaching. All pure conjecture on my part. I'm sure the FO could glean the answers during any meetings they might be conducting. Regardless I'm in.  I would say he is the polar opposite of Wheeler in the stuff/track record ratio. 

[tony&rodney]

Baseball organizations have identified top pitchers as a need and difficult to obtain. Therefore, the money has gotten crazy. Meanwhile players like Cron and others are non-tendered. This is the reality. The Twins can go $140+ for next season and their core plus young guns need a little time which necessitates a crazy signing. Garver, Gonzalez, Kepler, and Sano can fill 1B as players move around to accommodate days off.

Right now, it is all about the crazy attempt to sign Bumgarner .... or Cole or Strasburg. If the Twins are not successful and those pitchers sign elsewhere, then they turn to the trade front and others. Sign MB or GC.

[Mike Sixel]

The money isn't crazy. There are like twenty humans on the planet that are Ace pitchers. They should be paid well, given the revenue they help produce.

[cardsfan]

Did you see Madbum's stats when facing a lineup for the second time in a game? .502 slugging and .817 OPS.

 

Sure Madbum can beat the Orioles, Tigers and Royals, but, is he going to work playoff magic again?