Ervin Santana Update

[Vanimal46]

Per Berardino, Ervin wasn't able to top 90 MPH with his fastball during his last rehab outing on Friday.

 

The timeline set in March was silly. Now it's looking more and more like we won't see Erv in a Twins uniform again.

 

https://www.twincities.com/2018/06/23/ervin-santanas-rough-journey-continues-to-drag-on-following-surgery/

[ashbury]

To do competent roster management, a GM has to know and factor in the most optimistic recovery forecasts for injured players, so that he'll be able to return them to active duty when they become available without disrupting the roster.

 

The problem is that we fans seem to be being fed only these optimistic forecasts for every player taken off the roster. And the forecast doesn't change even when new information presents itself that obviously could have a bearing.

 

I'm not asking for the unknowable. I'm not asking for only worst-case either; obviously absolute worst-case is nearly always "career threatening". I'm asking for realistic ranges, which change as new events occur and new information surfaces.

[nicksaviking]

 

Per Berardino, Ervin wasn't able to top 90 MPH with his fastball during his last rehab outing on Friday.

The timeline set in March was silly. Now it's looking more and more like we won't see Erv in a Twins uniform again.

https://www.twincities.com/2018/06/23/ervin-santanas-rough-journey-continues-to-drag-on-following-surgery/

 

That's fine by me. Considering how the season is turning out I'd hope that means there will be extra opportunity for Gonsalves, Mejia, May or Littell to sand off some of their rough edges at the MLB level and get prepared to help next year on a contending team. Romero too if the team hasn't already decided to wind him down for the year.

[Vanimal46]

That's fine by me. Considering how the season is turning out I'd hope that means there will be extra opportunity for Gonsalves, Mejia, May or Littell to sand off some of their rough edges at the MLB level and get prepared to help next year on a contending team. Romero too if the team hasn't already decided to wind him down for the year.

Given the team's love and loyalty for veterans don't hold your breath! Erv could get a cup of coffee and start a few games in September...

[ashbury]

Given the team's love and loyalty for veterans don't hold your breath! Erv could get a cup of coffee and start a few games in September...

I like Erv, he's been a gamer, and if the Twins plan to not exercise their 2019 option and cut him loose, I don't have a problem with letting him have a couple of starts to showcase himself for someone else next season.

[Vanimal46]

To do competent roster management, a GM has to know and factor in the most optimistic recovery forecasts for injured players, so that he'll be able to return them to active duty when they become available without disrupting the roster.

 

The problem is that we fans seem to be being fed only these optimistic forecasts for every player taken off the roster. And the forecast doesn't change even when new information presents itself that obviously could have a bearing.

 

I'm not asking for the unknowable. I'm not asking for only worst-case either; obviously absolute worst-case is nearly always "career threatening". I'm asking for realistic ranges, which change as new events occur and new information surfaces.

There were signs and information all the way back in March where the early May timeline looked questionable.

 

Berardino wrote and I posted an article about Erv not being able to make a fist post surgery in mid-March. Even at that time no one seemed to raise an eyebrow that the time line was extremely optimistic.

 

The signs were there. The media chose to ignore it and didn't question the early May timeline.

[Squirrel]

Given the team's love and loyalty for veterans don't hold your breath! Erv could get a cup of coffee and start a few games in September...

Wait a minute here. You’re faulting then for liking their veterans? I recall a different thread where you were chastising people for wanting to move on from veterans, ie Dozier. If you’re going to be critical at least be consistent and not opportunistic to suit your frustration.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Berardino wrote and I posted an article about Erv not being able to make a fist post surgery in mid-March.

I, for one, believed the front office when they said that was due to Ervin's pacifism, as opposed to any kind of physical limitation.

[Mike Sixel]

There were signs and information all the way back in March where the early May timeline looked questionable.

 

Berardino wrote and I posted an article about Erv not being able to make a fist post surgery in mid-March. Even at that time no one seemed to raise an eyebrow that the time line was extremely optimistic.

 

The signs were there. The media chose to ignore it and didn't question the early May timeline.

The media covering this team is pretty much useless for getting the truth, if it is inconvenient for the team. I don't even bother anymore they are so in the pocket of ownership and the front office. Imo, of course.

[gunnarthor]

Bummer for the Twins and Santana. Do we know if this is like early ST, before the pitchers get arm strength back or is this more akin to Phil Hughes lost velocity?

[nicksaviking]

 

Given the team's love and loyalty for veterans don't hold your breath! Erv could get a cup of coffee and start a few games in September...

 

That's all true and it's most apparent in their acquisitions of relievers and outfielders and middle infielders of dubious talent qualifications. Maybe I'm wrong, but there tend to be less usable starters available on the waiver wire. If true, then their hand might be forced.

[Thrylos]

 

I like Erv, he's been a gamer, and if the Twins plan to not exercise their 2019 option and cut him loose, I don't have a problem with letting him have a couple of starts to showcase himself for someone else next season.

 

The problem with this is that he will be taking starts away from May and Pineda, both of whom figure in the Twins 2019 plans and need the work badly

[Vanimal46]

Wait a minute here. You’re faulting then for liking their veterans? I recall a different thread where you were chastising people for wanting to move on from veterans, ie Dozier. If you’re going to be critical at least be consistent and not opportunistic to suit your frustration.

It was a response to Nick's post. Because I like some veterans means I have to like all veterans and support every decision?

[ashbury]

The problem with this is that he will be taking starts away from May and Pineda, both of whom figure in the Twins 2019 plans and need the work badly

A team has to balance a lot of things. If you never want good free agents to consider your team again, feel free to tell a guy you're about to part ways with, "you're dead to us."

[Richie the Rally Goat]

A team has to balance a lot of things. If you never want good free agents to consider your team again, feel free to tell a guy you're about to part ways with, "you're dead to us."

none of Santana, May or Pineda are even close to healthy yet. Let’s cross these bridges when we get to them individually....

[yarnivek1972]

none of Santana, May or Pineda are even close to healthy yet. Let’s cross these bridges when we get to them individually....

Isn’t May pitching for Rochester now?

[Thrylos]

 

Isn’t May pitching for Rochester now?

 

Has been in the DL with shoulder issues. Not a biggie.  About to get off the DL and start pitching again.

[Number3]

Being an all star for the Twins is obviously the kiss of death. Look at last year's 3. One in A ball, one traded to the Nats and not doing great and 1 probably finished as a MLB player. 3 years ago Perkins came back from the all star game and basically hasn't been heard from since. And today's trivia question; who is Edwardo Nunez? Answer; Twins' 2016 all star. Please do not allow Escobar or Berrios or Rosario to be on this year's all star team.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Being an all star for the Twins is obviously the kiss of death. Look at last year's 3. One in A ball, one traded to the Nats and not doing great and 1 probably finished as a MLB player. 3 years ago Perkins came back from the all star game and basically hasn't been heard from since. And today's trivia question; who is Edwardo Nunez? Answer; Twins' 2016 all star. Please do not allow Escobar or Berrios or Rosario to be on this year's all star team.

Kurt Suzuki seems to have recovered from that curse nicely.

 

Dozier was an all-star in 2015, and while he had a poor second half that year, he did pretty well for 2016-2017.

[KirbyDome89]

 

Wait a minute here. You’re faulting then for liking their veterans? I recall a different thread where you were chastising people for wanting to move on from veterans, ie Dozier. If you’re going to be critical at least be consistent and not opportunistic to suit your frustration.

I thought the fact that Dozier suddenly became expendable during the offseason was pretty ridiculous too. That doesn't mean I, or anybody else who felt the same way, are in favor of Wilson, Hale, Belisle, Petit, ect spending time on the active roster. There's a very clear distinction between those two positions....

[Squirrel]

 

I thought the fact that Dozier suddenly became expendable during the offseason was pretty ridiculous too. That doesn't mean I, or anybody else who felt the same way, are in favor of Wilson, Hale, Belisle, Petit, ect spending time on the active roster. There's a very clear distinction between those two positions....

Uh ... this isn't at all what I was saying and not at all what I was calling out van on.

[KirbyDome89]

 

I like Erv, he's been a gamer, and if the Twins plan to not exercise their 2019 option and cut him loose, I don't have a problem with letting him have a couple of starts to showcase himself for someone else next season.

It would be a nice gesture by the organization, but I think those innings are better served going to young pitchers who are pushing their way onto the active roster. We bash September innings, and it's true that performances during roster expansion have to be taken with a grain of salt, but something is better than nothing when it comes to getting some time for arms that have a shot to stick.  

[KirbyDome89]

 

Uh ... this isn't at all what I was saying and not at all what I was calling out van on.

You're calling him out for supporting vets in one thread and pushing back against the teams continual love affair with them in another. I'm telling you that not all veteran players are the same, i.e. there's a massive difference between supporting the team holding onto Dozier beyond this season and being annoyed at their reluctance to cut Belisle. 

 

To be inconsistent the situations would have to equivalent, and that isn't case...

[Squirrel]

You're calling him out for supporting vets in one thread and pushing back against the teams continual love affair with them in another. I'm telling you that not all veteran players are the same, i.e. there's a massive difference between supporting the team holding onto Dozier beyond this season and being annoyed at their reluctance to cut Belisle. 

 

To be inconsistent the situations would have to equivalent, and that isn't case...

Oh, I fully agree that one vet isn’t the same as another. And now we’re getting off topic here so let’s move on.

[Vanimal46]

https://twitter.com/JTScouting/status/1013192894272933894?s=19

[Richie the Rally Goat]

88-90! Is it the finger causing the loss in velocity?

[Doomtints]

Looking at the box score, it doesn't look like he had to bother to throw it hard. I wouldn't read into this without hearing HIS opinion. Molitor wasn't there.

[mngopherguy]

If we are worried about finding a spot for May, it's worse than I thought it was for the Twins!

[Vanimal46]

[Vanimal46]