Miller: Adrianza looking for elusive job security

[Seth Stohs]

http://m.startribune.com/infielder-ehire-adrianza-looking-for-elusive-job-security-with-twins/414563133/?section=sports%2Ftwins

 

Phil Miller wrote a nice article on Ehire Adrianza. 

 

The article discussed his two uncomfortable weeks when he was DFAd by the Giants and the Brewers and then coming to the Twins.

 

Miller also got quotes from Paul Molitor and Gene Glynn about his defense. 

 

 

 

And just three days into training camp, his coaches have already noticed.

“He just shows you all the feel and balance and rhythm that you look for in a good shortstop. The way he moves is fluid and smooth. He’s one of those guys who always seems to get a good hop,” said Gene Glynn, who coaches the Twins’ infielders. “He’s got terrific range, and after the catch, he has a really good feel for momentum and changing direction to get the throw-out.”

Added Molitor: “We’re only eight days in, but you notice him. One of the things I read when we got him [was that] he’s going to be the best defensive shortstop on the field when he’s out there. We’ll see about that, but it shows what people think of him.”

 

While he certainly isn't guaranteed a big league job, he's certainly going to open eyes with his glove. 

[Doomtints]

He could be a gem. This is one of the better risks the Twins have taken in recent history.

[GP830]

I always get the impression with articles like this that we're being primed to accept that he will have a role on the team. He may even be a great addition, but I always sense that the PR team realized it may have been read as a strange move and really want to tell us why it's not.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I always get the impression with articles like this that we're being primed to accept that he will have a role on the team. He may even be a great addition, but I always sense that the PR team realized it may have been read as a strange move and really want to tell us why it's not.

with the recent Reusse article about DanSan it feels like the primer for Adrianza v DanSan for 25th man on the roster

[Seth Stohs]

 

I always get the impression with articles like this that we're being primed to accept that he will have a role on the team. He may even be a great addition, but I always sense that the PR team realized it may have been read as a strange move and really want to tell us why it's not.

 

I wouldn't read anything into PR moves. I know that's the angle some like to think, but it's not like they sit down and think about what they're going to say about each player.

 

Reporters get story ideas. They go into the clubhouse. They ask players a few questions. The players are just answering questions. The writers write. 

 

And Adrianza should certainly have a decent chance to make the team. 

[DocBauer]

There is obviously a reason he was available via the waiver wire and hasn't secured a full time ML job. He hasn't hit. To be fair, only once has he had more than a 100 AB, and 90 some another time. But what's kind of interesting is that if you check out his milb career, from 2009-2013, his 5 most recent "full" seasons on the farm, anywhere from 373-451 AB, he hit .258/.256/.273/.220/.266. His corresponding OB% for each of those seasons were .333/.333/.352/.289/.360. Now, expectedly, his SLG and OPS numbers were nothing to get excited about, but not awful for a glove first player, and he did show a little speed with some decent SB numbers and success. 27yo now, 28 in August, is it all possible his biggest problem has been lack of sustained opportunity?

 

Just wondering.

 

He still has to show on the field he can be a viable contributor of course. But I'm starting to wonder if he could be the 25th man...bidling farewell to DanSan with Escobar or Polanco being the "extra" OF to go along with Grossman.

[Doomtints]

 

is it all possible his biggest problem has been lack of sustained opportunity?

Just wondering.

 

Yes. See Eduardo Nunez. 

[Riverbrian]

Did anyone notice the MLB Trade rumors paragraph on the Tigers. It mentioned that the Twins and Padres inquired about Jose Iglasias. 

 

Granted... The Twins were most likely talking with the Tigers concurrently with the Dodgers/Dozier discussion and a SS replacement made sense for Dozier.

 

However... Iglasias is one of the top fielding shortstops in the game and that suggests to me that Falvey/Lavine are dead serious about defense at key positions like SS. 

 

I continue to prepare for the possibility of seeing more of Adrianaza than we may have originally imagined. 

 

There is stuff in between those lines if you squint hard enough while reading. 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Did anyone notice the MLB Trade rumors paragraph on the Tigers. It mentioned that the Twins and Padres inquired about Jose Iglasias.

 

Granted... The Twins were most likely talking with the Tigers concurrently with the Dodgers/Dozier discussion and a SS replacement made sense for Dozier.

 

However... Iglasias is one of the top fielding shortstops in the game and that suggests to me that Falvey/Lavine are dead serious about defense at key positions like SS.

 

I continue to prepare for the possibility of seeing more of Adrianaza than we may have originally imagined.

 

There is stuff in between those lines if you squint hard enough while reading.

i think the Castro signing follows this logic as well. Solid defense up the middle can go a long ways towards improving run prevention/pitching.

[Tecmo]

I think Adrianza is going to get a very long look at being the starting shortstop in spring training. Polanco can get plenty of at bats spelling 2nd, SS and DH and injuries happen.

[HitInAPinch]

 

Any chance of playing him at SS 60-75% of the time at the beginning of the season to see if he can hit? On those days we can move Polanco to LF , Dozier or Sano to DH with Polanco taking their spot or rest Dozier, Sano or Polanco. Rosario may be best suited to a 4th OF role and we can find out if Adrianza can hit enough to play every day. All things considered, Adrianza at SS with Polanco in LF and Rosario as the 4th OF may be the best lineup - but only if Adrianza can hit .240-.260.  

Polanco to LF?  Why?  I'm looking at his MiLB record, he's only been in the OF 11 times. 

I see Escobar as the starting SS, because Polanco looked pretty bad there last year.  I see Polanco as more of a 'super-sub' player until 2nd gets opened up, somehow.  I don't think more MiLB time would do anything for him.  Could be some service time issues, IDK.

 

I haven't seen Adrianza play, but see a real need for a few defensive-minded players on this team.

[Squirrel]

Did anyone notice the MLB Trade rumors paragraph on the Tigers. It mentioned that the Twins and Padres inquired about Jose Iglasias.

 

Granted... The Twins were most likely talking with the Tigers concurrently with the Dodgers/Dozier discussion and a SS replacement made sense for Dozier.

 

However... Iglasias is one of the top fielding shortstops in the game and that suggests to me that Falvey/Lavine are dead serious about defense at key positions like SS.

 

I continue to prepare for the possibility of seeing more of Adrianaza than we may have originally imagined.

 

There is stuff in between those lines if you squint hard enough while reading.

I can't find my reading glasses but I think you may be right. And if he is a significant upgrade defensively, I'm just fine with that

[Eris]

 

Did anyone notice the MLB Trade rumors paragraph on the Tigers. It mentioned that the Twins and Padres inquired about Jose Iglasias. 

 

Granted... The Twins were most likely talking with the Tigers concurrently with the Dodgers/Dozier discussion and a SS replacement made sense for Dozier.

 

However... Iglasias is one of the top fielding shortstops in the game and that suggests to me that Falvey/Lavine are dead serious about defense at key positions like SS. 

 

I continue to prepare for the possibility of seeing more of Adrianaza than we may have originally imagined. 

 

There is stuff in between those lines if you squint hard enough while reading. 

It is about time the Twins organization was serious about SS.  I am trying to remember the last time the Twins had an above average SS with sustained success.  I would think this is Greg Gagne (1983-1992).  By WAR he was the 10th ranked SS over this time period. The Twins have many potential SS but none of them seem to work out at SS.  

[bighat]

If you want to read the tea leaves:  The brass is going to move Dozier mid-season, and Polanco will be our new second baseman.  Adrianza becomes the starter at short after the ASB.  

[Squirrel]

If you want to read the tea leaves:  The brass is going to move Dozier mid-season, and Polanco will be our new second baseman.  Adrianza becomes the starter at short after the ASB.

 

If he's the starter after the ASB, my guess is he will be the starter before the break and Polanco will be the utility fielder, DanSan gone, not sure about Esco's role then.

[ashbury]

I'm a little concerned about this being Pedro Florimon V2.0. There's a ton of guys where teams say "oh, if he can just hit a little bit...", and then they can't, because "a little bit" is a higher bar than most people want to admit during the feel-good times of early spring.

 

Ehire seemed to gain more than usual from the batting inflation that the PCL offers, for whatever reason.

 

But maybe his chances look a little better than Florimon's did at a similar time, and in that case, his upside could be a credible shortstop for a last-place team. That's not the goal, of course, which is why I'm meh on thinking too much about him now.

[Vanimal46]

I'm a little concerned about this being Pedro Florimon V2.0. There's a ton of guys where teams say "oh, if he can just hit a little bit...", and then they can't, because "a little bit" is a higher bar than most people want to admit during the feel-good times of early spring.

 

Ehire seemed to gain more than usual from the batting inflation that the PCL offers, for whatever reason.

 

But maybe his chances look a little better than Florimon's did at a similar time, and in that case, his upside could be a credible shortstop for a last-place team. That's not the goal, of course, which is why I'm meh on thinking too much about him now.

He could very well be Florimon 2.0. But I'm also concerned that a Polanco/Sano left side of the infield will result in a lot of infield base hits and bubbled ground balls. I'd feel a little better having a plus glove play at least 1 spot on the left side of the IF.

[Riverbrian]

 

Polanco to LF?  Why?  I'm looking at his MiLB record, he's only been in the OF 11 times. 

I see Escobar as the starting SS, because Polanco looked pretty bad there last year.  I see Polanco as more of a 'super-sub' player until 2nd gets opened up, somehow.  I don't think more MiLB time would do anything for him.  Could be some service time issues, IDK.

 

I haven't seen Adrianza play, but see a real need for a few defensive-minded players on this team.

 

Polanco's strength appears to be with his bat so the ability to play some OF is just another way to get his bat in the lineup if the defensive concerns at SS don't improve. 

 

Personally... I'd like to see him get a chance at SS because that is where we have the strongest need but if there are "Some People" still in the organization who don't believe he can play that position (imagine what that sounds like during conference calls and meetings) and if Falvey/Lavine have inquired about defensive wizard Iglasias and actually signed a defensive wizard in Adrianaza and Dozier is still holding 2B... Add it all up and Polanco may have too many people not in his corner and therefore Molitor may have to get creative (I don't know if he has that Maddon type mindset) to get Polanco at-bats and utilize his strongest skill set. 

 

It's almost impossible to move an outfielder to an infield spot cold but moving an infielder to an outfield spot has been done many times and it's usually necessity that's the mother of that invention and Polanco not being able to play SS would create that necessity. 

 

Personally... If Adrianaza or Escobar comes out of camp with the #1 SS  job. You gotta ask the question... what do you do with Polanco?

 

If this were the Cubs... Maddon wouldn't think twice. Polanco would be getting some work in the OF. 

 

If this were the Rangers... Banister would have Polanco getting some work in the OF just like he did with Profar.

 

I'm not saying it will work out well... sometimes it doesn't but not every situation like this turns out like Sano, Bartlett or Hanley.

 

The alternative is to glue his but to the bench and play him only occasionally when Dozier or Sano need a rest, get dinged up or traded. If Dozier and Sano stay healthy... Polanco would get very little time at the plate and that would be a waste of his talent. 

 

If I'm guessing and I am... I believe that Polanco is the #1 SS right now just because that's where he was when we finished 2016 and no slam dunk replacement was brought in... I think Polanco will be given a chance to keep the job as evidenced by his starting at SS tonight but if he struggles in the slightest playing the position in Ft. Myers...  Adrianaza or Escobar will be starting by the time camp is done. 

 

And then what do you do with Polanco? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[diehardtwinsfan]

I'm not sure I'd write off Escobar to be honest.  But I might be the only one here.  Dozier will hopefully be traded for a haul come June/July allowing Polanco to slot in to 2B.

[HitInAPinch]

 

I'm not sure I'd write off Escobar to be honest.  But I might be the only one here.  Dozier will hopefully be traded for a haul come June/July allowing Polanco to slot in to 2B.

I like Escobar and believe he deserves another shot. He injured his hamstring and, well, Nunez caught fire and took over.

 

Trading Dozier could/would be really nice if we got a couple really good pitching prospects. And it would clear the way for Polanco to play [at least by my eyes] his best position. 

 

I'd also like to hear what Polanco has done over the off season to make himself a better shortstop. 

[Jacksson]

SF has stabilized their SS position with Brandon Crawford which is why Matt Duffy was playing 3B instead of SS before he was traded and why Adrianza was made available this off season by being DFA.  SF has better SS prospects in their system  behind Adrianza and just signed Crawford to an extension.  The Adrianza acquisition is a prime example of the type of vision that is necessary to have in an organization's top baseball decision makers. Find players in other organizations that are performing well at their positions but who are blocked from advancing within that organization either due to established players with contracts or free agent signees and who also have other talented players  advancing through that organization on their heels.

 

(I'd like to know that Grossman did work in the off season to become a better defensive outfielder.)

(I'd like to know that Rosario did work in the off season to become a more disciplined hitter.)

(I'd like to know that Kepler did work in the off season to become a better defensive outfielder.)

(I'd like to know that Sano will continue all year on a weight management program.)

(I'd like to know that Escobar did work in the off season to become a better hitter.)

(I'd like to know that Mauer did work in the off season to: get into better physical shape,  improve hand-eye coordination, pulling the ball and hitting fewer ground balls/more line drives.)

(I'd like to know that Danny Santana did work in the off season to better use his physical gifts to become a better defensive player at multiple positions and become an improved hitter.)

 

[Linus]

(Parenthetically, I agree.)

[Otto von Ballpark]

Adrianza wasn't really a targeted acquisition of a blocked prospect. The Giants already passed him through waivers once a couple years ago and outrighted him; then the Twins passed on him when the Giants waived him again this past January. Only when the Brewers turned around and waived him a third time did the Twins put in a claim. None of that suggests that the Twins think he is any more than a depth piece.

[Boom Boom]

I like Jorge Polanco as a solid offensive and defensive 2B. I think he's been handled very poorly by the Twins, because of being thrust into shortstop and also because of his effectively wasted first two option years. With Dozier not going anywhere, I get the feeling that Polanco will be traded by the end of camp, and we'll be seeing quite a bit of Adrianza this year.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Adrianza wasn't really a targeted acquisition of a blocked prospect. The Giants already passed him through waivers once a couple years ago and outrighted him; then the Twins passed on him when the Giants waived him again this past January. Only when the Brewers turned around and waived him a third time did the Twins put in a claim. None of that suggests that the Twins think he is any more than a depth piece.

At first this made sense to me (still does) but now I don't necessarily agree. Two things:

 

1. Adrianza was waived around the time Dozier talks broke off; the Twins might have had various people in various places unable to agree on Adrianza; so, while saying the "Twins passed on him" is accurate, it also conjures the idea that everyone in the org felt he was a stinker the first time, then collectively said "what the heck why not" about Adrianza the second time, which is doubtful. Which is all an incomplete and long-winded way of saying there were a lot of moving parts when the Twins passed on him the first time.

 

2. The Twins were under different leadership two years ago.

[ashbury]

and also because of his effectively wasted first two option years.

Why do you feel his option years were wasted?

 

IMO, when you sign a young guy - Polanco was 16 in his first GCL experience - you in effect commit to adding him (assuming he's developing satisfactorily) to your 40-man before he's finished developing, or else risk losing him via the rule-5 draft, and then you use his option years to let him continue developing in the minors.

 

That's what they did with Polanco. They did bring him up a couple of times in 2014/2015, precisely because he was now on the 40-man and thus an expedient choice to fill out the active roster for a few days or weeks. During his final option year, 2016, he was deemed ready, and was brought up at mid-season to stay.

 

There's a possible misperception that bringing a young guy up to the majors is what burns an option. It's the other way around - once the player has been added to the 40-man roster, he must be on the active (25-man) roster unless he has options remaining.

 

I guess the argument could be made that the Twins should have gambled by leaving him exposed to the rule-5 draft after he hit .300 with some pop at single-A as a 19-year-old. That would have preserved his 3 options by not starting the clock for another year. Would a bottom-feeder team have been able to make room for him for an entire season, and would there have been no better targets in that draft? I believe no middle infielders were chosen in the December 2013 draft, so maybe that means he would have sneaked through, in hindsight - or maybe it means he would have stood out as the infielder to take.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Not so important that the Twins specifically passed on him, but the whole league passed on him a couple years ago, and the 8 worst teams of 2016 passed on him when he was claimed by the Brewers in January.

 

Not that he was a bad claim, but that pattern suggests there are much larger issues with him than just being blocked with the Giants, and that he probably has more in common with recent waiver fodder like Neil Ramirez or Oswaldo Arcia than that he is some kind of specially targeted acquisition by our Twins. The odds of him starting at SS for us in anything other than a Florimon type desperation scenario are probably pretty low.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

No doubt, Adrianza is not some Orlando Arcia-type shortstop prospect, but I disagree Adrianza is a desperation move. I'd be fine if he was our shortstop. In fact I'd give him slight odds over Escobar.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Claiming him on waivers isn't a desperation move. Starting him at shortstop in the near future probably would be.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Claiming him on waivers isn't a desperation move. Starting him at shortstop in the near future probably would be.

Why?