Reusse: Fire Molitor

[jimmer]

 

I think if you turned it around and each AL central team or each AL team was drafting players for the next 10+ years you would see a lot of Twins go before other players. I think there is a lot of positional talent on this team, it just isn't seasoned.

I disagree, but I guess we'll find out.

[KirbyDome89]

 

It actually makes sense for Grossman to hit there against lefties. Like, that's actually an innovative, smart thing for a manager to do -- especially if Mauer is out.

 

I don't love Suzuki at DH or batting fifth, but against lefties he at least has a pulse. I still think I'd find ways to put Max Kepler out there to get better against lefties, but day-to-day lineups are hard to critique because you don't know if a player needs a mental break, or a physical break. Like for instance, Kepler has like a .500 OPS since Sept. 1. That's a guy screaming for a mental break.

 

And beyond that, it's not like he's leaving that many studs on the bench. The offense right now is kind of a skeleton crew. 

Just these last 2 weeks (past 13 games counting today) Logan Schafer has played more games than Eddie Rosario, 7-6. Schafer was hitting 2 hole on Sunday. The guy has 2 hits in his last 15 ABs. This is a problem. I agree, critiquing one lineup for one game can seem silly especially when they play 162 games, but this doesn't seem to be a situation where a player is being used to give a guy a breather. James Beresford getting a start at 3B isn't a huge deal, but when he starts again the next day at 1B I have to shake my head. There is less than a month left to evaluate players who may have an impact on next years team. Those players need to be on the field essentially every game at this point. 

[dxpavelka]

 

If he was complicit in the Sano to RF and May to RP decisions and not just following orders he should have been shown the exit at the same time as TR.

 

[Mr. Brooks]

I'm not too worried about a GM feeling like he/she is married to Molitor.

 

If the team is bad next year and Molitor still seems culpable, a good GM will find a way to fire Molitor before the end of the season.

It's not even about Molitor specifically.

Heck, a new GM might come in here and want a look at Mollie, who knows.

It's the fact that the owner is forbidding the GM from firing him. That is meddling.

That is going to make a GM candidate think, "OK, I'm actually fine with Molitor for a year, but how do I know this owner isn't going to meddle in other things too."

[wsnydes]

 

If Molitor helped captain a team that overachieved in wins and losses last year, is that not a factor in dismissing him?

 

I feel like a Molitor apologist with how many of you want an effigy burned every other day, but this is the same coach that helped us out-win our performance by a decent margin last year.  For many of you, the wins and losses are a bottom line, so why is that so quickly dismissed?

 

The organization's fundamentals have been on the downhill for a long time now.  It was a criticism of Gardy the last year he was here too.  Perhaps Molitor is being swallowed by the much larger issues he has no control over.

 

Just a thought.  If he's retained I find it defensible.  If he's fired i find that defensible as well.

And this is why I feel that coaching at the highest professional levels is overrated.  Not unimportant or irrelevant, but overrated.  The manager gets too much blame and too little credit.  Does he get credit for some of last season's unexpected success?  Sure he does.  But he also gets his fair share of the blame for this season.  Fair share of blame on a 100 loss season is going to be larger than credit for an 85 win season with largely the same roster.  There were games that this team won last season despite Molitor, just as there are games that they've lost this season because of him.

 

That being said, there are plenty of reasons for his dismissal that can only fall on the manager.  Lineup construction, in game moves, unexplainable bro-mances with overmatched players, poor bullpen use/overuse, sitting prospects, etc.   Player development falls into the middle ground.  It's on the player to improve as well, but the coaches need to help - that is why they're there to begin with.  Therefore, I feel that department is a shared responsibility, but coupled with the previously mentioned reasons only makes the case to retain Molitor that much thinner.  A manager should be putting players in the best position for them to succeed and I don't feel that he does that.

[Doomtints]

 

It's not even about Molitor specifically.
Heck, a new GM might come in here and want a look at Mollie, who knows.
It's the fact that the owner is forbidding the GM from firing him. That is meddling.
That is going to make a GM candidate think, "OK, I'm actually fine with Molitor for a year, but how do I know this owner isn't going to meddle in other things too."

 

The Twins seemed to find themselves without pitchers wanting to come to MN due to a sense of jerking the pitchers they had around.  Maybe they'll find the same problem with GMs.  I hope not.

 

If it were me I would see this as a yellow flag and not a red flag.  

[Willihammer]

Re: the Station 280 story, I get to a lot of bars and restaurants in town for work and can confirm that the situation is really bad. Shockingly bad. Last week I was at a bbq place while the Twins were playing and their TVs were tuned to, get this, women's MMA, food network, preseason NFL football (not the Vikings), and a Dodgers game. Not a single TV was tuned to the game. Not a single Twins cap in sight. This is normal now.

[Platoon]

Whether one agrees with a specific lineup move on a particular day or not, Molitors lineups simply have no direction. Not to the future, not to defense, not to match ups, virtually not to anywhere discernible. Speaking of nots, the biggest thing a MLB manager can do is not make the team worse than it is. Put people in places where they fit. Where there talent matches the postion. Make them aware of their place and standing on the roster. Treat them all the same way, enforcing your vision whether you are Mauer, Dozier, Kepler, or Rosario, with similar reactions. No, that will not solve actual talent issues. But the managers job is NOT to acquire talent, it's to make the best of the talent he has. Molitor has not, nor does he seem to have the capacity to do so in the future.

[gunnarthor]

 

Yeah, I didn't get that either.  What do the budgets of the Red Sox and Cubs have to do with overseeing the drafts of Pedroia, Ellsbury, Bryant, etc.?

Well, in some of those seasons, the Red Sox spent a lot more on falling guys b/c there was no draft pool in place.  

[deanlambrecht]

Without weighing in on the Molitor debate, it's a mystery to me why anyone takes Reusse very seriously.   He doesn't seem to understand much about the game or about individual player development.  While he's had multiple utterly stupid analyses over the years, the one that most immediately springs to mind is his complaints three years ago that we were holding Danny Santana back by keeping him in the minor leagues and not trotting him out as our starting shortstop.   His rationale was that Santana was a superb talent and was in fact the key to our future success.   This is just one of many examples, and it was the point in time that I chose to stop listening to him altogether - the proverbial straw that broke this camel's back.

 

My point is that we shouldn't be convinced by Reusse's opinion regarding whether Molitor should keep his job.   He's repeatedly demonstrated that he has no credibility in regards to judging baseball talent and decision making.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Well, in some of those seasons, the Red Sox spent a lot more on falling guys b/c there was no draft pool in place.  

If it was a lot more than the Metrodome-era Twins, I'm not sure that's particularly meaningful.

 

I'm not sure there's a great resource for draft spending in those years, but here's an article from 2011 that doesn't suggest the Red Sox were that big of outliers:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/draft/news/2011/2612233.html

 

Even if they were spending more, knowing the correct guys to spend it on would still be a skill (and one that is still valuable in the draft pool era, with above/below slot games).

[laloesch]

 

Re: the Station 280 story, I get to a lot of bars and restaurants in town for work and can confirm that the situation is really bad. Shockingly bad. Last week I was at a bbq place while the Twins were playing and their TVs were tuned to, get this, women's MMA, food network, preseason NFL football (not the Vikings), and a Dodgers game. Not a single TV was tuned to the game. Not a single Twins cap in sight. This is normal now.

 

They had better be careful (referring to the Twins), this could easily turn into a lost decade and could eclipse the mid to late 90's teams in futility.  In fact they are probably there already.

[gocgo]

I don't necessarily agree that Molitor and company should be fired.  Last year was good, this year was not.  I do agree that the new person should have the authority to hire and fire as they see fit.  If we were a Fortune 500 company spiraling downward and looking for a new CEO, would we offer someone the job without giving them the authority to fire or make other key business decisions?  That's why you hire a CEO!  You hire them to make tough decisions.  To say to the person before even hiring them that we aren't going to allow them to make one of those tough decisions is undercutting them.  Seems silly.  Also, did Terry Ryan have the authority to fire coaching staff?  I would hope so.  If so, why would you take that away from the new person?

[alarp33]

 

I don't necessarily agree that Molitor and company should be fired.  Last year was good, this year was not.  I do agree that the new person should have the authority to hire and fire as they see fit. 

 

Seems like a little bit of a simplistic way of putting it, no? Last year was ok, this year has been a total disaster.  I'm not sure 83-79 quite evens out with 60-102 (or whatever this season finishes at)

[gunnarthor]

 

If it was a lot more than the Metrodome-era Twins, I'm not sure that's particularly meaningful.

 

I'm not sure there's a great resource for draft spending in those years, but here's an article from 2011 that doesn't suggest the Red Sox were that big of outliers:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/draft/news/2011/2612233.html

 

Even if they were spending more, knowing the correct guys to spend it on would still be a skill (and one that is still valuable in the draft pool era, with above/below slot games).

I generally agree that Mcleod would be the preferred hire (although, frankly, I have no real reason to know who would be better).  But there is no question that clubs like the Red Sox were able to get more talent to fall to them b/c of their monetary advantage and a guy like Pedroia, IIRC, wasn't drafted particularly out of line.  He just ended up a lot better than many thought.  Now, to me, Mcleod sounds like a guy who would be pretty good without that advantage but it was an advantage.

[laloesch]

 

It is unbelievable that Pohlad would say Molitor is still manager come 2017, and even in the recent season ticket recruitment. Instead, you fall on your sword, discuss "total system failure" with hopes for the future looking at what is still a strong system of prospects as well as the search for management to take the team in a different direction to keep it competitive in the new world of baseball.

 

Looking at Molitor, though, we see inconsistent lineups, we see a total lack of fundamentals (of course, if players make errors, the ERA goes down for pitchers and hitters on other team get a batting average nick). With the amount of coaches you command, you have the ability to work with players and lessen those strikeouts.

 

Bullpen management is a mess. There are no roles for the pitchers, we see overwork in regard to appearances. Even now, no pitcher can get more than three outs it seems. And even with a guy like Duffey, who should be getting reps now coming in as a long relief guy since he clearly can't get us anywhere deep into games...it is not the same as Berrios who, at the moment, is being groomed as a starter. Yet I don't want to see Dean or Albers start. They are not going to be Twins in a year or two. Neither might Wheeler, but he should've had the opportunity, too.

 

It's a team of missed opportunities. Again, the Twins aren't spoilers. The Twins are a team on a total rebuild. Suzuki needs NO at bats. We need to see Murphy even catch Santana. We needed to Walker in the DH role if Sano and Mauer are sitting out. I would rather see at bats to Granite than Schafer, and it looks more and more like even Gorssman may be out of the 2017 picture. Guys like them don't lose anything for the Twins because the team didn't spend development monies on them and they cost whatever it cost to pick them up AND they are replaceable. We had replacements for them earlier and didn't go forth in Quentin, Wheeler and Murphy. We had Arcia who was pushed aside because of Sano in the outfield and the signing of Park, a player who along with Mauer, creates a salary logjam. At this point I would just as soon see Walker and Vargas (and dream of what Arcia still might've been).

 

But something isn't clikcing on the field. And that is the manager. You send a message to season ticket holders by firing the field staff, starting with the manager before the season ends.

 

You also send a message by moving full speed on whatever you want to do with the front office. If you are going to do same old same old, do it proudlhy and lay out your field of dreams. Don't just go through the motions to make it look like you CAN do something different. WHhch is my major peeve with the Twins. They want to look competitive (and sure got mileage out of 2015 and the one game away from the Wild Card). It was a weak division. It was a weak league. You had a lot of good breaks. But you still had a lot to do to truly become competitive. Just signing good solid pitchers is one thing, having a plan of a rotation that works is another. Or a bullpen that works. Or building a team with a lineup that works in the Stadium the taxpayers helped pay for so you could double or triple the value of your franchise on paper.

 

The other day when for a home game you fielded the Rochester Red Wings lineup with Dozier...I can go watch the Saints for a fraction of the cost and ten times the fun. I can do a roadtrip to Rochester and see the real thing and visit the Hall of Fame.

 

There is so much you can do to give a little glimmer to a lost cause. Get the players into the community...the future players. Change up the field staff, if even for the last couple of weeks. Tip over the water cooler in the front office. Go sit in the cheap seats (all you front office guys) and listen to fan remarks. Watch the game from the eyes of a fan and look for experiences that the fans may enjoy to bring them back to the game.

 

Jim Pohlad doesn't get it.  He's not a baseball mind and doesn't appear to have a clear understanding of how to build a competitive team by hiring competent front office staff, coaches, gm, etc nor holding people accountable at the appropriate time.  That is a big, big  problem.  Hopefully the new VP of baseball operations or whatever the title evolves into understands that and can work with his limitations.  

 

Personally i think Anthopoulos turned down the Twins due to these prehistoric work conditions and other challenges the Twins have allowed to fester the last five years.  The requirement of keeping Molitor is one such example, keeping Terry Ryan and all his scouts year after year in the face of all this losing while publicly guaranteeing their jobs is even more evidence and just crazy.  

 

It's not just the wrong personnel, but the culture too.  This is a big deter-ant to a new GM and VP.  They will literally be rebuilding the organization from the ground up (besides the owner & stadium).  That is a a monumental task even if the owner is cooperating fully.  Imagine the new GM and VP will have to review every coach, scout, trainer, etc., at every level and the major league squad and determine who to keep who to get rid of.  Not to mention the actual players themselves.  Daunting.

 

I too believe Molitor would be okay on a winning team.  However, he appears to have no patience for younger players and his lineup construction and bullpen usage this season strikes me as disorganized, chaotic and not structured.  How he didn't understand that when they gave him the managers job is strange.  Like Gardy before him he appears to have lost this team as well and that is a bad sign for 2017.    

[gocgo]

 

Seems like a little bit of a simplistic way of putting it, no? Last year was ok, this year has been a total disaster.  I'm not sure 83-79 quite evens out with 60-102 (or whatever this season finishes at)

Not saying that they even out.  I would say that it is a relatively small sample size in a season where the pitching has been awful.  As much as I am pulling for Neil Allen, I would part ways with him at the end of this year.  Defensively, we are terrible, but what I find baffling is how these guys aren't being taught some of the basics in the minors.  That isn't on Molly.  Putting Sano in the OF was a terrible idea, but I'm not sure that was Molly's choice either.

[Champuckett]

My main concern about Molitor isn't whether he is a good or a bad coach.  We pretty much know at this point the answer to that question.

 

My concern is the Pohlad loyalty to retaining him for reasons unknown, which may have been off putting to potential PBoB and GM candidates in recent weeks.  We already have lost 2 major candidates, how many more will be lost?  You can't truly rebuild a franchise with the vision that you have when there are a bunch of caveats protecting certain front office personnel and coaches.

 

We need to let the new guy in charge do what he needs to do to make this the best possible club that they can, and if that includes relieving Molitor of his duties, then that is what needs to happen.  Trying to keep certain things as they were, maintaining the good ol boy front office mentality, will only prolong the crux of the issue we have been facing for far too long.

[Riverbrian]

Molitor?

 

I don't care either way at this moment. 

 

I just don't know where the issues are.

 

The new guy is gonna have to bring in many new faces to change the culture quickly. If Molitor is surrounded by change... he will have no choice but to change. 

 

If the new guy at the top has to lead the same entrenched personnel. Change will come very sloooowly as the new guy repeatedly bangs his head against the wall.

 

Culture Change is the slow boring of hard boards. 

 

The Twins staff has been doing it the way they have been doing it for a long time. The new guy needs to make the decision on Molitor and everybody else in the organization and it makes Molitor a small issue to me.

 

 

 

[nicksaviking]

 

 

My point is that we shouldn't be convinced by Reusse's opinion regarding whether Molitor should keep his job.   He's repeatedly demonstrated that he has no credibility in regards to judging baseball talent and decision making.

 

The same opinion has been shared on this site hundreds of times before Reusse published it.

 

I don't generally like Reusse's knee-jerk ranting, but that one was well written and absent of fire and brimstone.

 

Also, being wrong about Danny Santana shouldn't disqualify anyone from having a meaningful take on baseball.

[darin617]

No need to fire a manager who would have most likely walked away having just one more year under his current deal. Star Tribune putting out things like that I would make them fire me if I was Molitor.

Ever wonder why all big names mentioned so far have declined the GM & President of baseball operations? The Twins are too cheap to spend the money to win. There could have been a small chance that Joe Madden would have chose the manager position if they put up the money. Talking about chasing a few of the Cubs front office exec's makes me laugh. Chicago will put up the money to keep them. The Pohlad boys don't want to spend dad's money. The apple never falls far from the tree.

[Kwak]

 

It's not even about Molitor specifically.
Heck, a new GM might come in here and want a look at Mollie, who knows.
It's the fact that the owner is forbidding the GM from firing him. That is meddling.
That is going to make a GM candidate think, "OK, I'm actually fine with Molitor for a year, but how do I know this owner isn't going to meddle in other things too."

Consider the interviewee for the PBOp position and he hears from Pohlad: "I have already named the team's manager. I believe most of the Front Office personnel are 'good people' and you must keep them for 'awhile' to properly assess their 'fit'. We aren't the Yankees, and we must live on a budget which will be reached by consensus of the executive committee using 'sound financial practices'. I will insist that certain players must be on the team to satisfy (mollify) the fans (Mauer and now Dozier).These players are part of the budget to which you must adhere. Any questions?"

[Mr. Brooks]

The Twins seemed to find themselves without pitchers wanting to come to MN due to a sense of jerking the pitchers they had around. Maybe they'll find the same problem with GMs. I hope not.

 

If it were me I would see this as a yellow flag and not a red flag.

That depends. If I'm an unproven up and coming guy who might only get 1 or 2 offers, then yeah I'd be cautious but still consider it.

 

If I'm a guy like AA or Cherrington, someone who probably is confident they can get a GM spot anytime, then it's a huge red flag and probably takes a team completely off the table.

 

Why even risk putting yourself in a spot where you have to deal with meddling owners?

[twinssporto]

 

It's not even about Molitor specifically.
Heck, a new GM might come in here and want a look at Mollie, who knows.
It's the fact that the owner is forbidding the GM from firing him. That is meddling.
That is going to make a GM candidate think, "OK, I'm actually fine with Molitor for a year, but how do I know this owner isn't going to meddle in other things too."

I highly doubt a good or excellent GM/POBO candidate will shy away from the Twins for fear of Pohlad interfering.  His personality type alone is non-confrontational.  When people interview him I sometimes think they need to take his pulse.

 

Now if Pohlad were more like Jerry Jones....then I would agree with the meddling fears.   

[twinssporto]

 

 

It's not just the wrong personnel, but the culture too.  This is a big deter-ant to a new GM and VP.  They will literally be rebuilding the organization from the ground up (besides the owner & stadium).  That is a a monumental task even if the owner is cooperating fully.  Imagine the new GM and VP will have to review every coach, scout, trainer, etc., at every level and the major league squad and determine who to keep who to get rid of.  Not to mention the actual players themselves.  Daunting.

 

 

That's why these type of FO guys get paid the big bucks.  New CEO's come in everyday to new organizations and make changes (some big some small).  I highly doubt there are many of these FO types that prefer the status quo.  Most want to turn the organization into something that reflects their culture expectations, performance, etc.

[Guest]

I don't necessarily agree that Molitor and company should be fired.  Last year was good, this year was not.  I do agree that the new person should have the authority to hire and fire as they see fit.  If we were a Fortune 500 company spiraling downward and looking for a new CEO, would we offer someone the job without giving them the authority to fire or make other key business decisions?  That's why you hire a CEO!  You hire them to make tough decisions.  To say to the person before even hiring them that we aren't going to allow them to make one of those tough decisions is undercutting them.  Seems silly.  Also, did Terry Ryan have the authority to fire coaching staff?  I would hope so.  If so, why would you take that away from the new person?

Systems that estimate W/L records by how well a team hits, pitches and fields say that the Twins were about 10 games lucky last year and about 10 games unlucky this year. That means, by taking luck out, the Twins would have been 73-89 last year and should be about 71-91 this year. If the manager is responsible for performance, but not luck, those records are, well, the type that usually leads to replacement.

 

Maybe the Twins and Twins fans have gotten so used to poor performance that we don't realize how much of an outlier these results are. I believe TK and Gardy are the only managers in history other than Connie Mack, who owned his team, to have four straight 90-loss seasons with the same club. I guess in comparison, Molitor's work doesn't seem so bad.

[nicksaviking]

 

No need to fire a manager who would have most likely walked away having just one more year under his current deal. Star Tribune putting out things like that I would make them fire me if I was Molitor.

Ever wonder why all big names mentioned so far have declined the GM & President of baseball operations? The Twins are too cheap to spend the money to win. There could have been a small chance that Joe Madden would have chose the manager position if they put up the money. Talking about chasing a few of the Cubs front office exec's makes me laugh. Chicago will put up the money to keep them. The Pohlad boys don't want to spend dad's money. The apple never falls far from the tree.

 

If the GM's are pulling out because they see the Twins as cheap ***** Note, this is a hypothetical take ***** how would the team being too cheap to pay players be any more damning than them being too cheap to buy out a manager?

[twinssporto]

Ok.  I read this entire thread.  Now I'm really, really depressed about this team...

 

[Doomtints]

 

That depends. If I'm an unproven up and coming guy who might only get 1 or 2 offers, then yeah I'd be cautious but still consider it.

If I'm a guy like AA or Cherrington, someone who probably is confident they can get a GM spot anytime, then it's a huge red flag and probably takes a team completely off the table.

Why even risk putting yourself in a spot where you have to deal with meddling owners?

 

Truth.  

[Guest]

That depends. If I'm an unproven up and coming guy who might only get 1 or 2 offers, then yeah I'd be cautious but still consider it.

If I'm a guy like AA or Cherrington, someone who probably is confident they can get a GM spot anytime, then it's a huge red flag and probably takes a team completely off the table.

Why even risk putting yourself in a spot where you have to deal with meddling owners?

That, plus the rest of the league thinks this is to-the-studs reconstruction, not just a redecoration. For example, I'd suggest to you that a new GM will want to replace at least the AAA and Hi A managers and give a close review to Dougie. Then, the coaching staffs need to be upgraded and all of the minor league development system needs to be overhauled. Trainers and medical staff need to be replaced. Analytics needs much stronger horsepower. Further, it wouldn't surprise me if St. Peter grates on candidates, who wonder how much time they'll be able to tolerate being in the same room as him. Then, throw on top of that an owner who keeps telling you how great everyone is and how important it is to get along with everyone. . .