Arcia Traded to the Rays

[old nurse]

Derek Shelton is the hitting coach in Tampa. The fans there seem to like him as much as the fans here loved Rick Anderson. Good luck with Tropicana..   Maybe Boston will trade a bag of beans for him and he will replace Ortiz so people here can go nuts for another 14 years

[Mr. Brooks]

See, I view this as a necessary part of the rebuild. We have been beyond terrible at cutting losses and moving on from failed prospects. If it means we're making a hard decision to go with kep ros bux and gross, then this is a positive step. Good luck to ozzie, one of my favorites despite his recent struggles. Hopefully there is more decisive trimming to come.

Well if Arcia has a large enough sample size to be determined as a failed prospect, then I want to know how soon you are prepared to trade Buxton for cash.

 

Not comparing their talent or upside, just the sample size given to them.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Derek Shelton is the hitting coach in Tampa. The fans there seem to like him as much as the fans here loved Rick Anderson. Good luck with Tropicana..   Maybe Boston will trade a bag of beans for him and he will replace Ortiz so people here can go nuts for another 14 years

maybe

[goulik]

Frankly I am glad we got anything for him at this point. At least he wasn't just claimed off waivers for free or left after clearing waivers as a free agent. Arcia was bungled badly when he was sent down last year and that error led to the rest of it with blame going all around. This Topic is dead to me now...moving on...

[Otto von Ballpark]

Frankly I am glad we got anything for him at this point. At least he wasn't just claimed off waivers for free or left after clearing waivers as a free agent.

Had he been claimed on waivers, the Twins would have received a nominal waiver fee, probably close to the cash considerations involved in this trade.

 

Had he cleared waivers, we could have sent him outright to AAA like Milone. He would not have been able to become a free agent until after the season at least, although we would have had the option to add him back to the 40-man like Milone too.

[bird]

 

Congratulations to Oswaldo Arcia. He has escaped the Stalag 13 of major league baseball. Maybe the Rays can get him back to being a regular baseball player. The Twins utterly failed this young man.

 

 

Congratulations to the Twins. They have ridded themselves of a knuckle headed empty uniform of a ballplayer. Maybe the Rays can get a couple good games out of him before they find a better alternative. Arcia utterly failed the Twins. 

 

I'm attempting to employ a little humor here to suggest that both of these takes are perhaps a bit extreme.

 

But I DO think Arcia represents a fail for the organization, in that they failed to get an acceptable return on the asset.

[laloesch]

 

Now can we work on getting rid of Nolasco and Milone? With the season in the crapper anyways I would rather see Berrios back in the rotation with Jason Wheeler getting a shot as well than see Nolasco or Milone pitch poorly. Berrios is starting to look good (1 earned run in the last 14 innings and only 4 walks) and I wouldn't think he'd have the issue of nerves since this would be his second go around. And Wheeler might be this year's Tyler Duffey, Wheeler has been lights out in AAA with a low 2 something ERA so we might as well see what he can do IMO.

 

 

I think a DFA or a trade of Nolasco is coming.  If he continues to pitch like this the Twins can't ignore it forever.  Will it happen before the break?  Probably not.  After the break maybe.  At some point during the 2017, yes.  

[KGB]

Sure, fair argument.  Then keep them both and send Park down.

Only would have delayed this decision on Arcia by a week, Park is probably going down when they activate Sano. Arcia wasn't part on their plan and he wasn't exactly forcing them to play him with his performance. Best thing for everyone was a change.

[FormerMinnasotan]

I think a DFA or a trade of Nolasco is coming. If he continues to pitch like this the Twins can't ignore it forever. Will it happen before the break? Probably not. After the break maybe. At some point during the 2017, yes.

Same for Milone. Once again can't get out of the 4th inning. And yet Mollie and co complained about Berrios' short outings. As far as the Twins are concerned Milone is not a pitcher they need.

[LaBombo]

 

can we get Hu back?

He's gone?

 

"Where'd Huuuu goooo?"

 

[LaBombo]

 

Same for Milone. Once again can't get out of the 4th inning. And yet Mollie and co complained about Berrios' short outings. As far as the Twins are concerned Milone is not a pitcher they need.

But he's the pitcher they deserve. A dark hole at the back of the rotation. A silent protector of deficits.

http://cdn1.xda-developers.com/customavatars/avatar5216367_1.gif

[TheLeviathan]

 

Only would have delayed this decision on Arcia by a week, Park is probably going down when they activate Sano. Arcia wasn't part on their plan and he wasn't exactly forcing them to play him with his performance. Best thing for everyone was a change.

 

They also could have dropped any of the dozen schmoes in the bullpen.  

[Jham]

 

Well if Arcia has a large enough sample size to be determined as a failed prospect, then I want to know how soon you are prepared to trade Buxton for cash.

Not comparing their talent or upside, just the sample size given to them.

Yeah, I mean if Buxton hits the end of his options and hasn't improved...  It has nothing to do with sample size, more to do with roster construction.  I don't think you can really compare Buxton to Arcia on a number of levels, upside, defense, speed, etc that would make a player valuable even if he hit like Arcia.  I just don't get your comparison at all I guess.  I never compared their sample size did I?  

fMaybe we should have signed Arcia to an extension just to make sure we didn't miss out?  If Buxton and Kepler aren't significantly better than Arcia, then I'll be very disappointed.  Perhaps he should have played more the last few years, and even this year, but he did nothing to earn it, and I still think that you get better efforts from everyone when the best player plays (ie no scholarships based on contract, youth, or options).

[Platoon]

As I wrote in far too many words 8 days ago or so I'm fully comfortable with this. Hopefully they can get a player rather than cash. 

 

I believe that if he gets playing time, just against righties and ideally just DH, he can be OK... But I'm fully comfortable with him not being here. I want Buxton and Kepler to get at bats at this point. Grossman is just a year older and probably going to be more steady also a better option as a 4th OF than Arcia. Rosario will be back soon. 

 

I hope Arcia does well too.

If Robbie ends up anywhere above 4th OF, you won't need Vegas to give odds on the teams playoff chances. Sheesh. And everyone thought Revere could not throw!

[spinowner]

 

This Topic is dead to me now...moving on...

I agree about this, but before I move on I have to say this last thing...

If Arcia succeeds it shows that the Twins mismanaged him. If he doesn't succeed it shows that the Twins made a very lucky good guess. In either case the Twins erred in not giving him more playing time during the last two months.

[jimmer]

And everyone thought Revere could not throw!

yeah, he cant

[Otto von Ballpark]

Only would have delayed this decision on Arcia by a week, Park is probably going down when they activate Sano. Arcia wasn't part on their plan and he wasn't exactly forcing them to play him with his performance. Best thing for everyone was a change.

If Park went down and Plouffe was dealt as expected (or DL'd, I see he has missed a couple games), DH would have been wide open for Arcia for awhile, even with Sano back on the team.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Perhaps he should have played more the last few years, and even this year, but he did nothing to earn it, and I still think that you get better efforts from everyone when the best player plays (ie no scholarships based on contract, youth, or options).

You sure about "nothing to earn it" in early 2015? Arcia had a really good finish to 2014, and was still getting benched for infielders in the outfield and Shane Robinson in the first month of 2015.

 

Also, I have no idea how you justify Plouffe and especially Park remaining everyday players on this team right now, with Arcia dropped for virtually nothing, without invoking scholarships a bit. Both Park and Plouffe have more PA vs RHP the past 3 months than Arcia has MLB PA total the past 15 months.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I believe that if he gets playing time, just against righties and ideally just DH, he can be OK... But I'm fully comfortable with him not being here.

So you believe there is a path to Arcia being a decent MLBer, yet you are comfortable with the Twins not even exploring that path at any time over the past 15 months? Poor asset management on the team with the worst record in baseball doesn't bother you in the slightest?

[Richie the Rally Goat]

What are Arcia's positives, again? Santana isn't a good player, but he's fine as the 25th guy, you use in emergency situations.

 

Again, I'll ask: what role would you have Arcia play and whose at bats should he be given?

..

 

If I had my druthers both would be gone and TR would get a Nick Markaikas type and Grossman would be the 4th outfielder until Rosario matures a bit, but that's not a choice, nor realistic this season.

 

 

 

if we're choosing between two alternatives I would consider team needs.

 

I would value a bench bat to pinch hit for Suzuki or Centeno, or fill in at a corner once or twice a week and shift Kepler to CF to spell Buck. Arcia would have a possibility to use his one skill to hit home runs.

 

On the other hand Santana would slot into any of the outfield positions, but be the same butcher as Arcia, not hit home runs or for average or get on base.

 

Id choose home run potential in Arcia to complement the current roster, but that's choosing a punch in the gut over a punch in the kidneys

[David HK]

I just hate this.  If they were going to trade him, it should have happened long ago.  They just sat on the guy, didn't play him, and let a roster spot fester and die.  There just seems to be no plan at all in this organization, and a field manager who doesn't know what the hell to do with young players, and has no clue that fans have already given up on this horrid season, and want to get moving toward the future.  That does not mean picking up scrap heaps on the waiver wire, by the way, TR.  

 

Get rid of Molly, get rid of TR, I don't care in which order, and get moving with a fresh, outside angle in the FO and on the field.

[Brock Beauchamp]

While I think the Twins mismanaged Arcia badly this season, holding 2015 against the team is disingenuous.

 

You know whose fault it was that Oswaldo Arcia didn't get MLB plate appearances in 2015?

 

Oswaldo Arcia. It's that bloody simple.

 

The guy had a .630 OPS in Rochester, for crying out loud. He had a monster July, which probably had him on the cusp of a promotion back to Minnesota... And how'd he follow that up in August? A .385 OPS.

 

There are plenty of reasons to fault the Twins for how they handled Arcia in 2016 without bringing up Arcia's absolutely atrocious play in 2015.

 

Listen, sometimes it's the player's fault. And 2015 was pretty clearly the fault of one Mr. Oswaldo Arcia.

[Otto von Ballpark]

While I think the Twins mismanaged Arcia badly this season, holding 2015 against the team is disingenuous.

 

You know whose fault it was that Oswaldo Arcia didn't get MLB plate appearances in 2015?

 

Oswaldo Arcia. It's that bloody simple.

 

The second half of 2015, no doubt Arcia was bad, and was probably injured. But our esteemed manager was actually benching Arcia back in April and early May, before his injury, in favor of infielders and Shane Robinson.

 

Then as you point out, Arcia was hitting just fine in AAA at the all star break. Just posting his career numbers, he probably could have helped the big club in June before Sano's arrival, and even after that by spelling Hunter, and maybe sitting Mauer a few extra times while Sano or Plouffe took over 1B on those days.

 

Maybe the Twins were prescient about Arcia's second half slide, but considering how they treated him at the start of the 2015 season, coming off his big finish in 2014, I doubt it.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

And so is Arcia.

A lot of hyperbole gets thrown around but in this case it's not. Fangraphs is brutal to Danny Santana. A guy charged with 35 errors last season (Semien) was rated higher. Usually Arcia will only appear somewhere in the middle of the bottom quartile of OF fielding stats (which is where Grossman appears), and not last or second to last. For all of Arcia's strikeouts this season, he still outperformed Santana by a good ways in the metrics that correlate to actual run scoring. I know it's not polite to pile on players and I don't know if Santana knows this about himself, but I have to believe it's been communicated to Molitor and Ryan.

 

I agree Santana's speed is an asset and he can spell Buxton in center just fine. I don't know how I feel about the possibility of Santana as a bench player and pinch runner on next season's team, however.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

The guy had a .630 OPS in Rochester, for crying out loud.

And Danny Santana can usually tear up Rochester

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I completely agree this topic has been beaten to death (hate that metaphor, but whatever). I'm glad I'm not the only one who can't let it go yet. A team doesn't get to 23-50 on one bad decision. It takes consistenly poor decision making to get this bad. The overall handling of Arcia's career and his inevitable release qualifies as bad decision making, in my opinion. And at this moment, the Twins are in most need of a DH to spell Park. Doesn't matter this year, I realize. Arcia's bat and definitely his glove can be replaced. But I enjoyed seeing a player with passion and confidence on this team as much as anything he did on the field. Oh well.

[jokin]

 

I guess I'm one of the few who are confused by the extreme overreaction to this move then.

 

I guess I'm one of the few who are confused by the extreme overreaction to this move then.

 

Yes... both of you...

[Brock Beauchamp]

The second half of 2015, no doubt Arcia was bad, and was probably injured. But our esteemed manager was actually benching Arcia back in April and early May, before his injury, in favor of infielders and Shane Robinson.

 

Then as you point out, Arcia was hitting just fine in AAA at the all star break. Just posting his career numbers, he probably could have helped the big club in June before Sano's arrival, and even after that by spelling Hunter, and maybe sitting Mauer a few extra times while Sano or Plouffe took over 1B on those days.

 

Maybe the Twins were prescient about Arcia's second half slide, but considering how they treated him at the start of the 2015 season, coming off his big finish in 2014, I doubt it.

Eh, early 2015 is being overblown. Arcia played in 14 of the team's first 16 games and in 19 of the team's first 25 games.

 

Then he got injured and did his best Drew Butera impression for most of the season.

[Trevor0333]

 

Hey, if you want to bitch about losing a guy who has a .236/.307/.373 85 OPS+, -1WAR line in the majors over the last two years (and a .629 OPS in AAA) and not getting enough in return for him, this is the place.  We can 10 pages out of this, easy.

 

But, best of luck to him.

 

Its not about he was playing to well to lose, its about they could have easily kept him by making other moves. You don't make decsions cutting ties on young players when you don't have too. They easily could have kept him as a 4th OF by making other moves.

[SwainZag]

 

The second half of 2015, no doubt Arcia was bad, and was probably injured. But our esteemed manager was actually benching Arcia back in April and early May, before his injury, in favor of infielders and Shane Robinson.

Then as you point out, Arcia was hitting just fine in AAA at the all star break. Just posting his career numbers, he probably could have helped the big club in June before Sano's arrival, and even after that by spelling Hunter, and maybe sitting Mauer a few extra times while Sano or Plouffe took over 1B on those days.

Maybe the Twins were prescient about Arcia's second half slide, but considering how they treated him at the start of the 2015 season, coming off his big finish in 2014, I doubt it.

 

Unless i am looking at things wrong, Arcia started 17 games in April 2015 and almost everyday after April 10th.   He hit 250/310/365, good for 2 HR a .676 OPS playing almost exclusively LF and was placed on the DL on May 4th.   

 

In that same time period, Shane Robinson played a mix of RF, CF and LF getting 42 PA, good for an OPS of .773. Escobar played in LF during 6 games in the month of April.  Danny Santana played everyday at SS.

 

I am not seeing where he was benched for Robinson and infielders.  I see him starting everyday for 3+ weeks, not hitting and then hitting the disabled list.  After the disabled list he went to AAA and struggled.  

 

I think the power he showed in 2014 is tainting everyone's memories about Arcia.  Yes, he hit 20 HR in 372 AB.  He also struck out 127 times, or 34% of the time.  It was a nice show of potential. The problem is, he has not improved since then and if anything his bat has seemed to regress.  He struggled mightily in AAA last year and hasn't looked like a "30 HR bat" or a "middle of the order bat" this year and is actually striking out at a higher rate.  While he is still relatively young, I really can't fault the front office much for cutting ties with him.