Arcia Traded to the Rays

[jimmer]

 

... and Kepler's adventure on that easy pop fly he over ran in right field against the Yankees didn't even get him a 2 base error! The fielding stats could/should be even worse without the official scoring mystery.

I never, ever, use fielding % or errors when taking into account defense.  I still see him a a good defender who could end up being a very good OF.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Arcia kind of reminds me of Delmon Young, an young outfielder who can't play in the outfield.  Someone who you thought could hit until you actually saw him swing a bat.

Clever. Arcia can hit. And of what we've seen from our other corner outfielders this season, Arcia might have been the least bad of that group, soccer kick and all.

[twinsnorth49]

 

Good to see the Rays got what sounds like a future HOF player  (based on TD commenters) who can help beat up the Yankees and Red Sox.

Yeah, that's what everyone is saying......

[cjj td]

In reality, don't we have 3 younger guys in the system with just as much upside (and just as many questions), who will need to be evaluated over the next few years?  We can't have 4 DHs in the line up.  I guess the issue is did we get appropriate value for him... but it doesn't bother me that we are making some decisions about who will be our eventual all or nothing type DH player.

 

This all assumes we can get Sano to stick at third, otherwise they will all probably have to go eventually.

 

ABW

Vargas

Palka

[jimmer]

 

Yeah, that's what everyone is saying......

Only if 'everyone' means something different than I think it does :-)

[bluechipper]

 

Yeah, that's what everyone is saying......

I guess I'm one of the few who are confused by the extreme overreaction to this move then.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

In reality, don't we have 3 younger guys in the system with just as much upside (and just as many questions), who will need to be evaluated over the next few years?  We can't have 4 DHs in the line up.  I guess the issue is did we get appropriate value for him... but it doesn't bother me that we are making some decisions about who will be our eventual all or nothing type DH player.

 

This all assumes we can get Sano to stick at third, otherwise they will all probably have to go eventually.

 

ABW

Vargas

Palka

Agreed.

[twinsnorth49]

Good luck to Arcia, I hope he gets a decent opportunity with the Rays. I thought he was a breath of fresh air with the Twins, emotional and demonstrative. I look forward to seeing him in the future.

[twinsnorth49]

 

I guess I'm one of the few who are confused by the extreme overreaction to this move then.

Being a bit choked over unnecessarily losing a young player who still might be able to contribute to your future team, while your current team is the worst in baseball.

 

That's an overreaction? 

 

 

[alarp33]

 

I guess I'm one of the few who are confused by the extreme overreaction to this move then.

 

The Twins are 23-49 and have players like Danny Santana, Buddy Boshers, Neil Ramirez on the roster.  They also have an over-matched Byung Ho Park, an unneeded Trevor Plouffe, and the list goes on.  

 

The point people have been making is there was no reason to give up on him right now.  They certainly could've found at bats to evaluate him through 2016.  And let him go for nothing after the season if they didn't like what they saw.  No one called him a Hall of Famer in the making.  

[dgwills]

I'd of liked to see him get some more at bats, but the Sano to right field move made that pretty tough. Would it of worked out differently if he had more playing time? Probably not. I would of been more comfortable with the result though.

[bluechipper]

 

Being a bit choked over unnecessarily losing a young player who still might be able to contribute to your future team, while your current team is the worst in baseball.

 

That's an overreaction? 

Arcia has been awful at the plate for 2 years in a row now, striking out at an absurd rate, and he offers nothing other than his bat. He is easily replaceable. So what's the big deal?

[Vanimal46]

 

Arcia has been awful at the plate for 2 years in a row now, striking out at an absurd rate, and he offers nothing other than his bat. He is easily replaceable. So what's the big deal?

For me, choosing D Santana over Arcia is the big deal.... 

[alarp33]

 

For me, choosing D Santana over Arcia is the big deal.... 

 

Ditto.  What's more difficult to replace.  A Left handed bat capable of hitting 20+ homers.  Or a guy who is... I guess fast?

[ScrapTheNickname]

 

our defense is the 2nd worst in baseball and that's with Arcia barely playing. So again, if we remove everyone who is terrible defensively, we won't come close to fielding a team.  TR, and our minor league development team have abandoned defense as a measure for MLB players.

 

And our pitching is constructed the way it's been constructed for 20+ years.

Buxton and Kepler are top defenders.

Build around them.

[bluechipper]

 

The Twins are 23-49 and have players like Danny Santana, Buddy Boshers, Neil Ramirez on the roster.  They also have an over-matched Byung Ho Park, an unneeded Trevor Plouffe, and the list goes on.  

 

The point people have been making is there was no reason to give up on him right now.  They certainly could've found at bats to evaluate him through 2016.  And let him go for nothing after the season if they didn't like what they saw.  No one called him a Hall of Famer in the making.  

Arcia has shown no improvement at all in the playing time that he has gotten this year since his terrible 2015. I like the effort that he put into his body being in great shape, and he seemed like a really good teammate, but he's just not a good enough player to get worked up about this move.

[PseudoSABR]

 

For me, choosing D Santana over Arcia is the big deal.... 

Santana offers flexibility at up the middle positions, acceptable defender, has speed; and his bat has been about Arcia's equivalent.    Santana offers skills outside of his bat; Arcia doesn't. When neither player looks like he can hit, the choice is easy... esp. considering the lack of depth up the middle and the depth at the corners.

[jimmer]

 

Santana offers flexibility at up the middle positions, acceptable defender, has speed; and his bat has been about Arcia's equivalent.    Santana offers skills outside of his bat; Arcia doesn't. When neither player looks like he can hit, the choice is easy... esp. considering the lack of depth up the middle and the depth at the corners.

Unacceptable defender at any position, his speed doesn't help him stealing bases nor help his ability to get on base.  He has one skill, speed, which he still manages to not be able to use enough to make other skills better.

 

Not sure there's been a worse MLB player in the last two years who has gotten significant playing time.

[jimbo92107]

Congratulations to Oswaldo Arcia. He has escaped the Stalag 13 of major league baseball. Maybe the Rays can get him back to being a regular baseball player. The Twins utterly failed this young man.

[Vanimal46]

 

Santana offers flexibility at up the middle positions, acceptable defender, has speed; and his bat has been about Arcia's equivalent.    Santana offers skills outside of his bat; Arcia doesn't. When neither player looks like he can hit, the choice is easy...

I probably shouldn't have posted because this was all discussed in the other thread... But here we go:

D Santana's position flexibility IMO is hyped too much. He's played exclusively in the OF this season, and we saw him fail miserably at SS last season... 

As a defender, yes he gets a slight nod over Arcia who's made countless bone headed plays. 

Have to disagree with you on Santana's bat being equivalent to Arcia. Even in a terrible 2015, Arcia put together a .718 OPS and .650 this year. Santana has been among the worst offensive players in the game the last 2 seasons. 

I'm going to protect power potential over speed 10 times out of 10. 

[twinsnorth49]

 

Arcia has been awful at the plate for 2 years in a row now, striking out at an absurd rate, and he offers nothing other than his bat. He is easily replaceable. So what's the big deal?

He's young and the same could be said of about half a dozen other pieces of chafe on this 40 man, most of which have next to zero upside.

 

I'm not losing sleep over it, just didn't have to happen, that's all.

[jimmer]

 

He's young and the same could be said of about half a dozen other pieces of chafe on this 40 man, most of which have next to zero upside.

 

I'm not losing sleep over it, just didn't have to happen, that's all.

179 PA in the last season and a half.  Pretty hard to gauge anything on so few PA.

 

Santana, on the other hand, 417 PAs in the same span.  What have we seen from that?  About a .555 OPS and an OBP around .255.  Good thing he cant steal a base or play good defense.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Santana offers flexibility at up the middle positions, acceptable defender, has speed; and his bat has been about Arcia's equivalent.    Santana offers skills outside of his bat; Arcia doesn't. When neither player looks like he can hit, the choice is easy... esp. considering the lack of depth up the middle and the depth at the corners.

 

He was literally in the bottom 5 of all players last year. I don't understand this stance on Santana at all. He's terrible. 

[HitInAPinch]

Well, a chance to start over for Arcia.  I hope he takes advantage.

[alarp33]

 

Santana offers flexibility at up the middle positions, acceptable defender, has speed; and his bat has been about Arcia's equivalent.    Santana offers skills outside of his bat; Arcia doesn't. When neither player looks like he can hit, the choice is easy... esp. considering the lack of depth up the middle and the depth at the corners.

 

Flexibility in that he owns an OF AND Infield glove?  I'm sure we could've bought Arcia a middle infield glove and called him flexible, but that wouldn't have made him good or valuable defensively.  

 

Danny Santana is hitting .226/.254/.305 w/ a 47 wRC+ since the start of 2015.  He has the lowest WAR in the entire Major Leagues in that time period.  It is not just hyperbole to say, Danny Santana is the WORST player in baseball.  

 

In Arcia's smaller sample size since he never got the same shot, he's struggled and hit .236/.307/.373 w/ a 80 wRC+

[Mike Sixel]

I don't think losing Arcia is the end of the world at all. Given all the, imo, mistakes in handling him the last 3 years, this is the logical move now.

[Han Joelo]

Even though the comment's been deleted, I'll go on record as saying I agree with "a certain moderator," and I don't even have a press pass.  

 

I accept that pretty much anything the Twins do will be criticized by some, and that is fine, but as for me, ce le vie.  Or is it que sera?  How can we even judge this without knowing who the PTBNL is?  And then waiting five years to see how said player develops?  I love these trades.  Doubtful it will be a superstar, but TR has unearthed a few gems in the past.  And who doesn't love cold, hard cash?  A fun promo would be Oswaldo night, where the cash is spent on free beer for the fans.

 

I wish every player had stock available like Duffy.  That way, strongly opinionated internet posters could actually put their money where their mouth is.

[PseudoSABR]

 

He was literally in the bottom 5 of all players last year. I don't understand this stance on Santana at all. He's terrible. 

And so is Arcia.  Santana can sit on the bench and serve a purpose as a defensive replacement, a pinch runner, and the occasional start to give a guy day off.   Arcia provides none of those benefits, and I think he's done horrible as a pinch hitter.   With Rosario, Sano, Kepler, Grooseman, Mauer, and Park, there just isn't going to be at bats for Arcia.  We don't have that same depth at CF or MI, so it's reasonable to keep a guy like Santana around, even if you don't ultimately agree with the decision.

 

I'm not sure why so many posters need to portray views that are contrary to their own as totally unreasonable, that such views can't even be understood.  It makes for really lame debates; there's a reasonable argument for keeping Santana over Arcia; and there's a reasonable argument for keeping Arcia, one I happen to not agree with...

 

 

[Mike Sixel]

I guess I don't see the fact that he is bad at everything, offense, defense, and baserunning.....as a good argument for why Santana should be on the roster. Regardless of Arcia......I don't see how being "able to play multiple positions" is good, if you play them worse than every other player in baseball.

 

I am not comparing him to Arcia, I am asking why a terrible hitter, who can't defend, and is a bad/terrible baserunner has any place on this (or any) roster. 

[PseudoSABR]

 

  In Arcia's smaller sample size since he never got the same shot, he's struggled and hit .236/.307/.373 w/ a 80 wRC+

Tell me about his AAA numbers last year.  I'd love to hear someone rationalize those numbers away.  

 

The notion that the Twins should have just kept throwing Arcia out there, say, instead of signing Grooseman or giving the next guy a shot (Kepler), just leaves me dumbfounded.