Arcia Traded to the Rays

alarp33 · June 28, 2016

Kind of makes me wonder who some people are watching when they see Santana as a defensive replacement for someone. Let's figure, for a moment, that the OF will eventually be Buxton, Kepler and Rosario (at least until he shows he's not starter material, which I think he's already done, but whatever). Who would Santana defensively replace? Which starter is he a better defender than? And he's very, very likely not going to come in for defensive replacement for anyone in the IF.

And, really, we can't pretend he's a good pinch runner either. It's not just about speed. It's about smarts too. We also know stealing bases is not his thing, right? I mean he's tied for the league lead in caught stealing even though he's only made 17 attempts.

There has been a lot of efforts to make Danny Santana sound useful. "Pinch runner" "25th man that can sit on the bench" "Backup to many positions" "Defensive replacement". I don't see one of these as holding the tiniest bit of credibility.

Even if you aren't an Arcia fan, and were fine with the DFA.. its ok to just admit Danny Santana stinks.

jimmer · June 28, 2016

There has been a lot of efforts to make Danny Santana sound useful. "Pinch runner" "25th man that can sit on the bench" "Backup to many positions" "Defensive replacement". I don't see one of these as holding the tiniest bit of credibility.

Even if you aren't an Arcia fan, and were fine with the DFA.. its ok to just admit Danny Santana stinks.

not only that, but he plays a lot.

beckmt · June 28, 2016

Problem was with the starting pitching and the number of short starts Twins are getting. That is why you carry 13 pitchers. Fix the starting pitching and many of the problems here go away.

We all wish Arcia well, but he could well make Sano look like a good outfielder, so to me he is DH only and did not hit well enough to fill the spot. Would rather take a shot with Park(after giving him a month or two in Rochester to get his confidence back), than with Arcia.

savvyspy · June 28, 2016

Exhibit Too Many to Count for the worst GM in professional sports. Ryan has put together a major league roster where you have a case for DFAing probably 80% of it by the end of May and his response is to basically give away an above average controllable bat for cash.

It appears we have yet to reach peak Ryan incompetence.

alarp33 · June 28, 2016

Problem was with the starting pitching and the number of short starts Twins are getting. That is why you carry 13 pitchers. Fix the starting pitching and many of the problems here go away.

Neil Ramirez has pitched once since June 17

Mike Sixel · June 28, 2016

Problem was with the starting pitching and the number of short starts Twins are getting. That is why you carry 13 pitchers. Fix the starting pitching and many of the problems here go away.
We all wish Arcia well, but he could well make Sano look like a good outfielder, so to me he is DH only and did not hit well enough to fill the spot. Would rather take a shot with Park(after giving him a month or two in Rochester to get his confidence back), than with Arcia.

Except you can use Rochester to house your 13th pitcher. They also have a pitcher that has pitched 1 time in 10 days. So, I'm not sure the argument for a 13th pitcher is all that strong.

howieramone2 · June 28, 2016

The Twins DH is hitting .194 with a .279 OBP and is 5 years older than Arcia.

He also has a team friendly contract, 3 options left, and is second on the team in HR's. Classic low risk/high reward pick up.

howieramone2 · June 28, 2016

SSS Alert

June:

.229/.385/.386 (Grossman)

..348/.360/.652 (Arcia)

.145/.236/.323 (Park)

No room to play the youngest of the 3!

Our favorite team is trying to win games, not have the youngest team in baseball.

beckmt · June 28, 2016

Except you can use Rochester to house your 13th pitcher. They also have a pitcher that has pitched 1 time in 10 days. So, I'm not sure the argument for a 13th pitcher is all that strong.

You really can't because of the 10 day rule and 40 man roster management. Do not mistake a week against lower hitting clubs to make your case. Wait until the Twins have to face some high power offenses to make your case.

jimmer · June 28, 2016

The Twins DH is hitting .194 with a .279 OBP and is 5 years older than Arcia.

You forgot 3rd lowest line drive rate in the A.L., the wRC+ of a whopping 83, and the roughly 33% K rate :-). But, bright side, he is tied for 59th in the majors for HR. SO basically, the kind of offensive juggernaut you want for a DH who can't field well when he does play 1B.

Heck, he's only days away from being 30, so he's got plenty of time.

jimmer · June 28, 2016

Our favorite team is trying to win games, not have the youngest team in baseball.

and doing a spectacular job of it....

alarp33 · June 28, 2016

Our favorite team is trying to win games, not have the youngest team in baseball.

Ok. So why are the playing the one that can't hit Major League pitching?

alarp33 · June 28, 2016

He also has a team friendly contract, 3 options left, and is second on the team in HR's. Classic low risk/high reward pick up.

It's not team friendly if he can't hit a fastball. He has options, so they should use one

alarp33 · June 28, 2016

You really can't because of the 10 day rule and 40 man roster management. Do not mistake a week against lower hitting clubs to make your case. Wait until the Twins have to face some high power offenses to make your case.

Buddy Boshers pitched 2 innings from June 1 through June 10.

You can pretty much go through most 10-14 day sample and find a pitcher or pitchers who are rarely used.

The need for 13 pitchers is a total myth.

Along with Ramirez's 1 appearance in the last 10 days, Jepsen has thrown 1 inning in that time

TheLeviathan · June 28, 2016

Neil Ramirez has pitched once since June 17

But we HAD to DFA him, we really, really needed him that one time.

Seriously, can people not look at the 25 man roster and not see we had at least 7-8 better options?

Major League Ready · June 28, 2016

You can all continue to pursue the ridiculous notion that choice was Arcia or Santana it won’t make it any more plausible. The choice was not anymore Santana then it was Taylor Rogers. Santana plays an entirely different role. If you want argue Santana should not be in that role, fine but that’s a different thread. You can also argue he should have been the DH instead of Park but that’s a different thread.

The choice was Grossman, Rosario, or Arcia. Grossman gives you a good RH bat to compliment to Kepler and Rosario. Maybe they will finally do as we all hoped and use a platoon. In this case, Rosario/Grossman.

Where Santana is concerned, Molitor values having a bench player with Santana’s versatility. So do other managers and the baseball media talks about the value of versatile players all the time. Having a guy that can be the BU CF and SS in one guy is a nice bonus. I am not in the hall of fame, nor do I have 20 or 30 years in professional baseball so I am going to just assume Molitor’s reasoning is valid.

Santana stinking is a relative measure but Arcia has stunk even worse for two years. He was great initially but the league figured out his approach is terrible and he does not come to the plate with a plan. He has been pitiful with the exception of short bursts. Plus, he is a liability defensively. I wanted him to get a chance too but I just cant get bent out of shape by the FO taking this direction.

wsnydes · June 28, 2016

Problem was with the starting pitching and the number of short starts Twins are getting. That is why you carry 13 pitchers. Fix the starting pitching and many of the problems here go away.
We all wish Arcia well, but he could well make Sano look like a good outfielder, so to me he is DH only and did not hit well enough to fill the spot. Would rather take a shot with Park(after giving him a month or two in Rochester to get his confidence back), than with Arcia.

Molitor could also simply use his bullpen more efficiently. No more of this three pitchers throwing 6 pitches combined to get 2 outs in the 5th inning crap. He wears some guys out (May) and doesn't use others at all (Ramirez).

wsnydes · June 28, 2016

Buddy Boshers pitched 2 innings from June 1 through June 10.

You can pretty much go through most 10-14 day sample and find a pitcher or pitchers who are rarely used.

The need for 13 pitchers is a total myth.

Along with Ramirez's 1 appearance in the last 10 days, Jepsen has thrown 1 inning in that time

That is irritating beyond belief. You have guys like Chargois in AAA that deserve to be called up and you have guys sitting in the big league pen that are hidden and never used. Yet, they DFA a 25 year old instead to clear roster space. Roster mismanagement at its finest.

howieramone2 · June 28, 2016

But we HAD to DFA him, we really, really needed him that one time.

Seriously, can people not look at the 25 man roster and not see we had at least 7-8 better options?

I can't. Could you be so kind as to list them for the board, along with you're personal opinion on why that's the case?

alarp33 · June 28, 2016

Santana stinking is a relative measure but Arcia has stunk even worse for two years.

Santana has the lowest WAR in all of baseball since the start of 2015. So frankly, no one has stunk more than him

Mike Sixel · June 28, 2016

You can all continue to pursue the ridiculous notion that choice was Arcia or Santana it won’t make it any more plausible. The choice was not anymore Santana then it was Taylor Rogers. Santana plays an entirely different role. If you want argue Santana should not be in that role, fine but that’s a different thread. You can also argue he should have been the DH instead of Park but that’s a different thread.

The choice was Grossman, Rosario, or Arcia. Grossman gives you a good RH bat to compliment to Kepler and Rosario. Maybe they will finally do as we all hoped and use a platoon. In this case, Rosario/Grossman.

Where Santana is concerned, Molitor values having a bench player with Santana’s versatility. So do other managers and the baseball media talks about the value of versatile players all the time. Having a guy that can be the BU CF and SS in one guy is a nice bonus. I am not in the hall of fame, nor do I have 20 or 30 years in professional baseball so I am going to just assume Molitor’s reasoning is valid.
Santana stinking is a relative measure but Arcia has stunk even worse for two years. He was great initially but the league figured out his approach is terrible and he does not come to the plate with a plan. He has been pitiful with the exception of short bursts. Plus, he is a liability defensively. I wanted him to get a chance too but I just cant get bent out of shape by the FO taking this direction.

There is a lot here, but the one I want to ask about is......why was him staying and Park going to AAA not an option, or am I reading your post incorrectly?

howieramone2 · June 28, 2016

That is irritating beyond belief. You have guys like Chargois in AAA that deserve to be called up and you have guys sitting in the big league pen that are hidden and never used. Yet, they DFA a 25 year old instead to clear roster space. Roster mismanagement at its finest.

Chargois was already called up this season, as was Alex Meyer. Both crapped the bed.

SwainZag · June 28, 2016

Molitor could also simply use his bullpen more efficiently. No more of this three pitchers throwing 6 pitches combined to get 2 outs in the 5th inning crap. He wears some guys out (May) and doesn't use others at all (Ramirez).

Just flipping through box scores, I can't find an instance where Molitor has run his bullpen that way that early in the game. I can't find anything like that before the 7th or 8th actually.

SwainZag · June 28, 2016

Santana has the lowest WAR in all of baseball since the start of 2015. So frankly, no one has stunk more than him

Actually it seems that Pablo Sandoval holds this honor.

TheLeviathan · June 28, 2016

I can't. Could you be so kind as to list them for the board, along with you're personal opinion on why that's the case?

1. Send down Ramirez

2. Ditto boshers

3. Ditto Rogers

4. Trade Abad

5. Option Buxton

6. Ditto Kintzler

7. Trade Jepsen

8. Option Park

But let's face it 1,2 are all that matter. Everything else is debatable as a best option, the first two are no brainers.

alarp33 · June 28, 2016

Actually it seems that Pablo Sandoval holds this honor.

I'm using bWAR. Danny Santana -2.8 (-2.2 in 2015, -0.6 in 2016). Sandoval -1.1 (-0.9 in '15 and -0.2 in '16)

wsnydes · June 28, 2016

Chargois was already called up this season, as was Alex Meyer. Both crapped the bed.

They were given such an opportunity to shine. Meyer was called up and sat in the pen for a week, finally got out for an inning and then another spot start and hasn't been heard from since.

Chargois was barely up for a cup of coffee. He had one bad outing and was immediately sent back down.

If you're going to call up a player, allow them to actually show you something. One outing doesn't tell you much, especially if its their MLB debut.

Mike Sixel · June 28, 2016

Chargois was already called up this season, as was Alex Meyer. Both crapped the bed.

we now judge players on 1 appearance?

wsnydes · June 28, 2016

Just flipping through box scores, I can't find an instance where Molitor has run his bullpen that way that early in the game. I can't find anything like that before the 7th or 8th actually.

June 8th against Miami. I was wrong though. It was the 6th inning. It was also to get 1 out.

Brock Beauchamp · June 28, 2016

Chargois was already called up this season, as was Alex Meyer. Both crapped the bed.

Riiiiiiight.

Alex Meyer pitched 3.2 innings and started once, inexplicably getting the hook at the first sign of trouble.

JT Chargois pitched less than one inning (0.2) in Minnesota.

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