Why is Arcia on this roster still?/Arcia dfa'd

[Taildragger8791]

 

Is there anything besides home run power and no defense that makes people think Arcia is another David Ortiz? 

 

 

The fact that he just turned 25 and they have seemingly given up on him would be another big one.  How many examples do you need, those seem like pretty good ones?

 

Btw, I don't think anyone has declared "Arcia is for sure going to go on to hit 500 home runs and win multiple World Series titles in a probable HOF career".  It's the fact that he does have a very good skill (hitting home runs, and in general hitting RH pitchers) and it's odd the Twins don't want to use it

 

Adding to that, Arcia hit for nearly a .300 average with power over his minor league career, with a high but not unmanageable 20% strikeout rate. Albeit with a somewhat low walk rate. That track record suggests he should be better than this, and we've seen that in glimpses. For some reason his development seems to have stagnated after getting to the majors. The drop off from those numbers to his major league numbers is just so stark that it's hard to believe there isn't some untapped ability still there.

[goulik]

I am convinced that there is a disconnect between Ryan and Molitor. Arcia is one of several players caught in between them in this problem. Ryan values Arcia and wants Molitor to play him but Molitor makes the line up and keeps him on the bench. We saw this with Meyer and Kepler his first time up, and a few others. One or both of them need to be fired so there can be a plan that the GM and Manager are both working on together. With the Pohlad interviews posted I doubt he's firing Ryan mid season... That would be just too much work.

GAHHHHH!!

I'm getting frustrated and disillusioned again so I am signing off for a bit.

*sigh*

[spinowner]

 

 For some reason his development seems to have stagnated after getting to the majors.

Do you suppose it could be because he's not getting enough regular playing time? Just maybe? I say someone goes to the minors (Grossman, Kepler or Park) and Arcia plays 5-6 days a week for the rest of the season. You don't know what you're releasing if you don't let him play.

[Dantes929]

 

I could see them letting him go.  He is almost guaranteed not to be any good with the Twins.  If he leaves and becomes a solid everyday player I wouldn't be upset either.  A change of scenery often times helps a guy out.  Maybe he gets a hitting coach that can get something out of him that no one on the Twins staff can.

 

That is my feeling with Ortiz as well.  I don't think he would have become the player he is if he stayed here.  He was coached in a different way in Boston and was put in a position to succeed hitting between some pretty good players when he really developed in mid 2000's.  He would not have received that same scenario here in Minnesota.  Would have have become good, most likely, but I don't think he would have received what he needed to become what he is today if he stayed here.

 

So let Arcia go and let's move on.

Somewhat of a difference with Ortiz.    Its not like he didn't hit with MN.    He had an .808 OPS despite the fact that every time he started to get hot he got hurt.   .808 OPS for his first years in the majors isn't bad.    He got hurt a lot and the Twins liked Dougie M.     I think he would have done just fine with the Twins.    I can't figure Arcia at all.    He used to have the sweetest swing but just swung too hard and tried to pull the ball too much.    I just wanted him to stride toward the middle and take a healthy swing but now his approach appears to be better but his swing doesn't look as smooth.     A lot of talent that I would hate to lose but right now it seems inevitable.

[bird]

So, in one thread, were talking about Arcia, who has been in almost half the games and has 100 AB's. But he hasn't had an opportunity? No chance to get hot? The poor stats are to be discounted as SSS and offer no proof that he's a bench player at best right now? Why isn't that a good plan for him for now? Who would you bench instead, and why?

 

And in another thread, we're talking about Polanco in a similar number of games but about five more game's worth of AB's. This apparently IS an adequate sample size. Meaning Polanco has had an opportunity to prove that he belongs at the next level. That we should not discount his performance on the basis of it being at AAA rather than MLB?

 

From my perspective, both players have had an opportunity, and their performance so far this season holds meaning. And it's simply a matter of time before Polanco is in MLB and Arcia perhaps is not.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

It could be a system/teaching/philosophy thing for power hitters struggling on the MLB team. In the case of Arcia, I just don't think he's that good. Some other team could probably use him as the RH platoon at DH or RF I suppose. That would be playing to his strengths. I can't see him hitting more than 25-30 HRs in a platoon role. 

 

I beg to differ.  If anything, this is another case of rushing a prospect.  He got promoted quickly through the high minors and added to the 40 man early, out of need granted, but early.  Now he's out of options and he never adjusted after MLB adjusted to him. 

 

I would lose sleep over losing him.  He's got the potential to be a middle of the order hitter.  Perhaps he's a head case and doesn't take coaching well, or perhaps he's not coached well.  I'm not sure which, but I wouldn't part ways with him unless I got a pretty decent offer, and I don't think many GMs would give one for him right now. 

 

He needs to play every day.  There's no reason why Molitor couldn't rotate through Kepler, Buxton, Arcia, and Grossman.  Playing 3 out of every 4 games is very very doable. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Is there anything besides home run power and no defense that makes people think Arcia is another David Ortiz? 

 

Take a look at his minor league slash line... all while being significantly younger than his competition.  His only real knock was needing to be a bit more selective at the plate.  I don't know if we'd regret losing him quite like Ortiz, but I do think there's a very real possibility that we regret losing him.

[brvama]

I am convinced that there is a disconnect between Ryan and Molitor. Arcia is one of several players caught in between them in this problem. Ryan values Arcia and wants Molitor to play him but Molitor makes the line up and keeps him on the bench. We saw this with Meyer and Kepler his first time up, and a few others. One or both of them need to be fired so there can be a plan that the GM and Manager are both working on together. With the Pohlad interviews posted I doubt he's firing Ryan mid season... That would be just too much work.

GAHHHHH!!

I'm getting frustrated and disillusioned again so I am signing off for a bit.

*sigh*

These are my exact sentiments about playing Arcia. Plan and simple it is the manager that sets the lineup and plain and simple Arcia, among others aren't in it. If there really is a "disconnect" between Ryan and Molitor then it is upon Ryan to straighten it out. Either Molitor toes the line or he's gone. Plain and simple. Both have to be traveling the same direction or you get nowhere fast. It just doesn't seem like the two are rowing in unison here.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I’ve been a huge Arcia supporter over the years but I’ve almost given up on the Twins ever making anything of him.

 

I'm pretty disappointed that he dropped that ball. He ran a long way for it then failed to get completely under it—fundamentals. That was Buxton's ball anyway. Arcia is also back in the habit of not watching the ball into his glove. When I heard he dropped one Saturday, I figured he was standing right under it and hot dogging it. I can’t argue he should be in the outfield much anymore, but then, Arcia is still vastly better out there than Sano. So there’s that circle to try squaring.

 

As a hitter it seems like Arcia is finally figuring it out. He's still only 25. I've heard multiple times that he has been hitting to left, having better at bats, whatever. And then he’s not in the lineup the next day. I think Arcia would benefit from a clearly defined role and then to get playing time consistent with that role. Old timers talk about routines during a long season. The Twins still act like he is in an extended tryout, trying him in left field one day, inexplicably benching him on another day to play someone else. Arcia is not a guy you want thinking too hard. Just get him comfortable, let him come to the park and mash. 

 

The other knock on Arcia was always that he strikes out too much, which may be true, but that excuse rings pretty hollow now considering the rest of our lineup.

 

And then you check Fangraphs because you want to find something positive to say about him, and you find that so far in 2016 he has a line drive rate of 35%, which sounds pretty good, until you filter all MLB players with a minimum of, say, 50 plate appearances this season, and you find out that Arcia actually has the best line drive rate in MLB. Yep, 1 out of 386. Here's the link, try it yourself.

 

But then, it doesn’t really surprise you that the best line drive hitter in baseball can't crack the lineup of a 19-43 team, because how else would a team be 19-43 if not for making decisions like regularly benching the best line drive hitter currently in baseball. But since its out of your control, all you can do is keep watching and waiting for something good to happen.

[jorgenswest]

Through age 24 and nearly the same number of plate appearances Ortiz had an OPS+ of 101 and Arcia an OPS+ of 104.

[Mike Sixel]

I am not arguing his present or future. I just don't get the plan at all.

[Thrylos]

 

I am not arguing his present or future. I just don't get the plan at all.

 

Um... You really think that Ryan & Co have a plan? Seriously?

[Mike Sixel]

I do. I don't know what it is, but yes, they have a plan. It isn't working.....

[Thrylos]

 

I do. I don't know what it is, but yes, they have a plan. It isn't working.....

 

If they had a plan, it would seem to be this:

 

- sit on your rear end the off-season and check the waiver wire for transactions...

[Mike Sixel]

If they had a plan, it would seem to be this:

 

- sit on your rear end the off-season and check the waiver wire for transactions...

I think that is unfair, but I understand why some think that is the plan.

[Riverbrian]

Rotate everybody... Let the players make decisions for you. 

 

There is no reason for Molitor to sit anyone at this point. NONE. 

 

Just rotate them... Everybody will get significant playing time and at bats.

 

This is such an obvious approach to take and I don't understand why it isn't happening. 

 

I don't trust anybody in this organization with the decision on who to put to sleep. Let the players play and make the decision with... I don't know... how they actually play. 

 

It's much better than deciding how you think they will play because that hasn't been working so far. 

 

[jokin]

 

I’ve been a huge Arcia supporter over the years but I’ve almost given up on the Twins ever making anything of him.

 

I'm pretty disappointed that he dropped that ball. He ran a long way for it then failed to get completely under it—fundamentals. That was Buxton's ball anyway. Arcia is also back in the habit of not watching the ball into his glove. When I heard he dropped one Saturday, I figured he was standing right under it and hot dogging it. I can’t argue he should be in the outfield much anymore, but then, Arcia is still vastly better out there than Sano. So there’s that circle to try squaring.

 

As a hitter it seems like Arcia is finally figuring it out. He's still only 25. I've heard multiple times that he has been hitting to left, having better at bats, whatever. And then he’s not in the lineup the next day. I think Arcia would benefit from a clearly defined role and then to get playing time consistent with that role. Old timers talk about routines during a long season. The Twins still act like he is in an extended tryout, trying him in left field one day, inexplicably benching him on another day to play someone else. Arcia is not a guy you want thinking too hard. Just get him comfortable, let him come to the park and mash. 

 

The other knock on Arcia was always that he strikes out too much, which may be true, but that excuse rings pretty hollow now considering the rest of our lineup.

 

And then you check Fangraphs because you want to find something positive to say about him, and you find that so far in 2016 he has a line drive rate of 35%, which sounds pretty good, until you filter all MLB players with a minimum of, say, 50 plate appearances this season, and you find out that Arcia actually has the best line drive rate in MLB. Yep, 1 out of 386. Here's the link, try it yourself.

 

But then, it doesn’t really surprise you that the best line drive hitter in baseball can't crack the lineup of a 19-43 team, because how else would a team be 19-43 if not for making decisions like regularly benching the best line drive hitter currently in baseball. But since its out of your control, all you can do is keep watching and waiting for something good to happen.

 

Before spring training, I argued that Arcia's roles should be on a daily basis, either playing in RF, platooning PT @ DH and Pinch HItting, every single day, at least through the ASB, in order to really give the guy one last decent shot to show if he's made any progress towards fulfilling his major league potential. Even in limited playing time, it's obvious that his plate approach, based on:

 

the #1-ranked LD% you previously mentioned and,

a nice increase in BB%, plus,

a big improvement vs. LHP (OPS+ of 104 vs career OPS+ of 69)

nice improvement in YOY zone contact rate,

nice improvement reductions in both swing rate and out of zone swing rate...

 

has improved overall. at least somewhat significantly. (It appears that he did the offseason work to better prepare himself for the season, offensively)

 

I don't think it's arguable that he can ever make enough improvement in the OF to satisfy anyone, but the Twins didn't do him any favors moving him back and forth between LF and RF. He was a RF throughout most of his time in the minors (310 games vs. 38 in LF)- he definitely seems more comfortable there.

 

This was the year the Twins needed to make a fully informed, and final, decision on Arcia. For all intents and purposes, that decision seems to have been made by April 15, instead of by July 15. He's absolutely spinning his wheels and wasting a roster space. But give him some credit, it doesn't appear that this uncomfortable situation has negatively affected his attitude in the dugout. Meanwhile, in tyypical fashion, the Twins will get absolutely ZERO for Arcia when he finally is officially Designated for Assignment

[The Wise One]

 

I’ve been a huge Arcia supporter over the years but I’ve almost given up on the Twins ever making anything of him.

 

I'm pretty disappointed that he dropped that ball. He ran a long way for it then failed to get completely under it—fundamentals. That was Buxton's ball anyway. Arcia is also back in the habit of not watching the ball into his glove. When I heard he dropped one Saturday, I figured he was standing right under it and hot dogging it. I can’t argue he should be in the outfield much anymore, but then, Arcia is still vastly better out there than Sano. So there’s that circle to try squaring.

 

As a hitter it seems like Arcia is finally figuring it out. He's still only 25. I've heard multiple times that he has been hitting to left, having better at bats, whatever. And then he’s not in the lineup the next day. I think Arcia would benefit from a clearly defined role and then to get playing time consistent with that role. Old timers talk about routines during a long season. The Twins still act like he is in an extended tryout, trying him in left field one day, inexplicably benching him on another day to play someone else. Arcia is not a guy you want thinking too hard. Just get him comfortable, let him come to the park and mash. 

 

The other knock on Arcia was always that he strikes out too much, which may be true, but that excuse rings pretty hollow now considering the rest of our lineup.

 

And then you check Fangraphs because you want to find something positive to say about him, and you find that so far in 2016 he has a line drive rate of 35%, which sounds pretty good, until you filter all MLB players with a minimum of, say, 50 plate appearances this season, and you find out that Arcia actually has the best line drive rate in MLB. Yep, 1 out of 386. Here's the link, try it yourself.

 

But then, it doesn’t really surprise you that the best line drive hitter in baseball can't crack the lineup of a 19-43 team, because how else would a team be 19-43 if not for making decisions like regularly benching the best line drive hitter currently in baseball. But since its out of your control, all you can do is keep watching and waiting for something good to happen.

A K% of 40% for the year and 31% career K% really diminishes the significance of  a league high LD %.  The best contact that Arcia is making  with a bat is with air or his shoulder.

Arcia is on the team for potential. They will still give him this year or maybe  even next two to develop.  Like Gardenhire was alleged to do, Molitor is not appearing to be a development sort of manager.

 

You do have to ask has Arcia worked at improving his fielding.   If the answer yes, but it doesn't take much to be better than a butcher, the you need to figure that Arcia might be the 4th best DH in the system

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Through age 24 and nearly the same number of plate appearances Ortiz had an OPS+ of 101 and Arcia an OPS+ of 104.

Of course, Ortiz at the time had an above league average walk rate (~12%), and his K rate had already dropped down to league average (~17%).  Ortiz really just needed to step up his power from league average (~.165 ISO) to become a valuable hitter, which he did in his age 25 season, although it was slightly masked that year by a drop in BABIP.

 

Arcia, on the other hand, while he has seen his BB% climb to a league average level, his K rate is significantly higher than league average (31.5% career, versus a league rate around 21%) and is trending worse so far at age 25.  His power too seemed to peak in 2014 and has been league average or worse since then.

[Oldgoat_MN]

I just don't understand why a team with a record like ours cannot find out what we really have. Maybe playing Arcia against all RH pitchers for 5 weeks will be painful, but maybe not.

 

The same with Polanco. What do you suppose he has to do to get an opportunity? Get released?

I know it's a small sample size, but Polanco has a career .861 OPS in MLB and an OPS of .880 in AAA this year.

 

These are two guys about whom we will only learn what their potential is when they display it for some other team. 

[Major League Ready]

 

Calling him up at age 22 with less than 500 plate appearances at AA and AAA guaranteed his struggle.

It may be too late to make a difference or he might be a guy that needs closer to 2000 ML PAs to right the struggle. I would send out Kepler and play him regularly. Kepler will benefit from the time at AAA. My guess is they release him and risk the careers of both players.

What I find interesting on this site is that the FO is often cursed for not promoting aggressively in the minds of many who post here.  There is constant complaining right now to get guys here soon.  Then, when a player fails who is promoted aggressively, the FO is cursed for their failure.   They cant be bost to aggressive and to passive.  Which is it?

 

In this case, what is the alternative?  Sit Kepler.  I seem to recall several people complaining he did not get played the first time he was up.  He is a better prospect than Arcia at this point so playing Arcia over Kepler seems ill-advised. 

 

Sit Grossman?  He is the hottest hitter on the team.  Now, I am all for getting the players of the future ready so we are not in this same situation next year and beyond but I don't think you want to send a message to the team that if you play extremely well you will be benched in favor of trying out a prospect.

 

The outfield of the future could be Buxton, Kepler, and Rosario/Grossman rounding out a 4 player rotation.  That would work out nicely against LH pitching.

[Mike Sixel]

Well, there is an entire page on how the Twins promote slowly in the low minors, then quickly thru the upper minors. This is the opposite of some other teams that seem to be more successful lately than the Twins.

 

Also, there are differences between elite prospects, and what the timeline should be for them, and for normal prospects (and HS vs college). When discussing specific players, or even the process, it's almost like, I don't know, lots of things are taken out of context......

[alarp33]

 

What I find interesting on this site is that the FO is often cursed for not promoting aggressively in the minds of many who post here.  There is constant complaining right now to get guys here soon.  Then, when a player fails who is promoted aggressively, the FO is cursed for their failure.   They cant be bost to aggressive and to passive.  Which is it?

 

In this case, what is the alternative?  Sit Kepler.  I seem to recall several people complaining he did not get played the first time he was up.  He is a better prospect than Arcia at this point so playing Arcia over Kepler seems ill-advised. 

 

Sit Grossman?  He is the hottest hitter on the team.  Now, I am all for getting the players of the future ready so we are not in this same situation next year and beyond but I don't think you want to send a message to the team that if you play extremely well you will be benched in favor of trying out a prospect.

 

The outfield of the future could be Buxton, Kepler, and Rosario/Grossman rounding out a 4 player rotation.  That would work out nicely against LH pitching.

 

No one said to sit Kepler.  There are plenty of ways a terrible team can get a LH bat in the lineup on days they are facing a righty.  They don't seem to grasp novel concepts like Platooning.  

 

They could - Sit Plouffe vs some righties (Sano slides to 3B), Sit Park vs some righties, Sit Grossman on occasion. 

 

They could also have Arcia pinch hit every game vs a RH reliever.  How many times has Suzuki been pinch hit for this year?  

 

Arcia has 81 at bats in 2.5 months vs RHP, that is unacceptable

[Mike Sixel]

Rotate guys, so they each play at least three times a week?

 

The question remains, why is Arcia on the roster if they won't play him? that's the question......

[wsnydes]

 

If they had a plan, it would seem to be this:

 

- sit on your rear end the off-season and check the waiver wire for transactions...

You forgot "improve and expand concessions at Target Field".

[Mike Sixel]

 

You forgot "improve and expand concessions at Target Field".

 

by that you mean, add more places for adults to drink, right? Because the plan is NOT to improve the family experience.....

[wsnydes]

 

by that you mean, add more places for adults to drink, right? Because the plan is NOT to improve the family experience.....

I don't have kids, but I will definitely agree with this and definitely find it irritating.  They did add two bars and expanded beer selection, but they did also add more food selection - all of it expensive.  

 

The decline of the family friendly experience is a shame.  It's awfully tough to grow your brand in sports without the kids.  I was at the Sunday game against the Rays and was shocked by the lack of families in attendance on a really nice MN day.  

[Shane Wahl]

I guarantee that if Arcia leaves the Twins he will post .800+ OPS seasons on the regular with any other team.

[jimbo92107]

Only a couple weeks ago it looked to me like Oswaldo Arcia was finally starting to "get it" at the plate. His balance was looking better, his swing was getting shorter, he was starting to hit to all fields... and then the Twins called up Kepler and sat Arcia down.

 

Arcia appears to be a guy that really needs to play regularly in order for him to hone his game. He's also an emotional guy that needs to feel valued. He's not getting either of those things from the Twins. 

 

Clearly Arcia is not part of this team's long-term plans, so what they SHOULD do is trade him or release him. Some other team could plug him into right field and leave him there, and within a month they'll have their own Robbie Grossman experience. Anybody need a power-hitting RF with a good arm? For one reason or another, some guys don't fit with a team, but they can shine somewhere else. Arcia is one of those guys. 

[jokin]

 

. 

 

They could also have Arcia pinch hit every game vs a RH reliever.  How many times has Suzuki been pinch hit for this year?  

 

Arcia has 81 at bats in 2.5 months vs RHP, that is unacceptable

 

I said just this in Spring Training. I can't begin to count how many times in the 8th and 9th innings there has been an "obvious" situation for Arcia to hit in, only to see Suzuki, et al, get another shot. Arcia has only PH 4 times this year.

 

Arcia is so low on the Twins totem pole that Mauer has recently been pinch hit for in several late-game situations- against RH pitchers- only to see Escobar or someone else get the PH gig over Arcia.