Twins DFA'd O'Rourke and Graham, Maestro up

[brvama]

Actually, Terry retiring, getting kicked upstairs, becoming special assistant to the President... is the first order of business. Jim Pohlad felt the heat a couple years ago, and publicly stated that money is not going to be an impediment to finally putting a winner on the field again. Money was spent foolishly in many instances, and foolishly not at all in many other instances. Better pitchers are sidelined in favor of lesser veterans. Key prospects are arriving at the major league completely lacking in the fundamentals of good team baseball. Making the mistake and blowing up your OF defensive depth once is a bad mistake, doing the same thing again is bordering on malfeasance. I think Pohlad is finally going to get the message that the organizational culture is completely stale and in a state of inertia, and that a dynamic change is needed, very, very soon.

 

Glen Taylor finally figured this out after years of futility- and bit the bullet and blew things up- executives in different fields do talk amongst themselves.

Jokin, we both know that Ryan will remain in his post at the minimum through this season. You highlighted a good list of the mistakes or shortcomings, but you still didn't address what should be done with the roster at this time. This whole thread is about his roster moves. I really would be interested in hearing your moves to improve this team, if you would have mysteriously became the GM this week. Really, isn't that what this thread is about, the roster moves he's made? Personally

[DocBauer]

I also played amateur GM this off season, and thought I did a pretty good job of it. (Not that it matters or anyone asked. Lol) And I was befuddled by moves made and moves not made. But I tried to focus on the positives and hope. During ST, I really thought there was a shot that this team would be at least OK. Alas...that is not the case.

 

I don't feel there is an issue in regard to actually giving TR or anyone else "credit" or an "at a boy" for these recent moves. I think the feeling is more one of...hope simply may be the best word here, though not totally accurate...that at least there is a willingness to begin to move on.

 

The problem isn't the Twins past way of doing things, or a failed off season. Those things are what they are, being in the past. And the issue isn't really Centeno of Boshers or Mastroianni. No, the issue is what's next?

 

I understand the frustration and disappointment we all feel. But, IMHO, the answer is not to just promote 4-6 prospects or so, throw them out there, and let them take their lumps and see if they sink or swim. And if they sink, toss them back down again and bring someone else up and play the sink or swim game with them. There is no form of continuity there, it could damage steady progress, and it's not really any different than recycling veterans round and round and seeing if something "sticks to the wall", as it were.

 

So the issue is again, what's next? And not tomorrow, but maybe 2-4 weeks from now. Is this a real attempt keep Berrios and Duffey in the rotation? Is this a real effort to add a 5th OF just for speed and defense so Buxton and/or Kepler can get some more time before coming up? Is this a prelude to actually remove guys like Milone, Nolasco and maybe others, despite contacts in order to clear the 40 man and the 25 man rosters?

 

If the answer is yes, I'm not willing to toss bobbles or bouquets to Twins management. Nor am I saying there shouldn't be some very warm butts. But at least it would signify...again, maybe hope...that there is actually a change in thinking and procedure. That maybe, there is at least the makings of an actual plan instead of a recycling job.

[DocBauer]

As to the roster at this time? Unless we can actually find an OK ML OF somewhere, somehow, to help out, Mastro as a 5th OF, defensive replacement and PR may be, at least, prudent, and allow Buxton and Kepler more time.

 

I'd do my best to keep both Berrios and Duffey in the rotation. Moving Nolasco, however it has to be done, insures this.

 

I'd keep playing Sano at 3B, at least on a regular basis, and I'd be looking at Plouffe, Mauer and even Park as a possible RF temp/fill in. This would allow me to prepare for the future, Sano at 3B, while still attempting to get my best bats in the lineup. Why and how can Sano be moved to the OF but everyone else is immune to any such move?

 

I don't really understand the O'Rourke move. I'm not a big fan of a pure LOOGY, but at least he seemed to be OK in that role. Maybe Boshers can and will do better. There ARE feel good stories out there where somebody gets another chancd, with another organization, something clicks, and they find a role.

 

I seriously doubt Kinsler has a future with the Twins. But if it's him or Fien, I'd take Kinsler, at least in the short term. And I'd probably move Chargois up to Rochester with the idea that in a month, maybe the break, he's now ready to take Kinsler's job, or someone else's. (As good as Chargois looks, he's still lacking much pro experience of any kind)

 

Until or unless he slumps, I'd still get Nunez in some games. I'd go with Centeno as second catcher for now, and try to get Murphy back on track in Rochester. If and when that happens, I'd bring him up to PLAY, and make Suzuki the backup catcher. (Or even DNA him, or hope someone out there could really use a veteran catcher for depth and offer up SOMETHING)

 

Dozier has had some solid success in the past in the 1 spot, and has voiced he has enjoyed playing there. I know there are valid arguements to batting him lower in the order, but maybe swapping with Santana would spark him.

 

And whether it costs us a contract or a lower level prospect, I'd keep watching the waiver wire and such for that veteran OF, or a catcher, that may be acquired as a stop gap option who could maybe help. This might even allow Rosario to go back down to AAA for a time to get right as well.

[Guest]

Look, everyone can keep slapping each other on the back about how bad the Twins are, but there's nothing ridiculous about noting that the Twins have changed the way they go about handling the roster (and ineffective players), and being happy about those limited moves, even though the roster situation the Twins find themselves is of their own making.  

 

This isn't finding some silver lining, this is a change in the way the Twins usually go about things.   Yes, everyone, the situation could be worse, the Twins could keep throwing ineffective players out there as they've tended to do in the past.  

 

But the "I'm so right about how bad things are" crowd seems to really appreciate your incendiary analogies! So like Bravo.

If these had been planned decisions over the winter, they would have made sense and there would have been good opportunities to find replacements. Now, they are unplanned knee-jerk reactions and the back-up plan is either worse or expensive. The replacements must be better than Mastro, which means either they expect/hope/pray that Buxton gets it together in the next few weeks or they are looking to acquire players from other teams. It wouldn't surprise me if other GMs are calling TR to see if he'll accept a panic trade for their Matt Cappses and Kevin Jepsens in exchange for Kepler, Stewart, Meyer, Gonsalves and whatever else they can get TR to throw in.

[Guest]

Jokin, we both know that Ryan will remain in his post at the minimum through this season. You highlighted a good list of the mistakes or shortcomings, but you still didn't address what should be done with the roster at this time. This whole thread is about his roster moves. I really would be interested in hearing your moves to improve this team, if you would have mysteriously became the GM this week. Really, isn't that what this thread is about, the roster moves he's made? Personally

Another thing about TR, which doesn't get mentioned often, is that he has ensured his longevity by not hiring anyone good to his staff. He's even proven that he doesn't have a backup plan, which in many organizations would be considered a failure of management, but for some reason makes the Twins cherish him more. Many teams have assistant GMs and other staffers who are candidates for open jobs with other teams, but nobody is interested in any of the Twins senior' staff.

[operation mindcrime]

What a dumpster fire! \m/

[AlwaysinModeration]

Dear Ryan O'Rourke,

 

Thank you for pitching 3 2/3 scoreless innings in the 16 inning loss to the Nationals on April 24. Your mental toughness in that game, combined with your ability to strike out 36% of all left handed batters, made you an appealing candidate to remain in our bullpen.

 

Unfortunately, the Twins regret to inform you there is no longer a need for your services. Your employment with the club has been terminated, effective immediately.

 

Thank you for your contributions and good luck in your future endeavors.

 

Sincerely,

 

The Minnesota Twins

PS--Sorry we didn't leave you in to face one more batter in that game....lefty pitcher Oliver Perez. In retrospect, it might have been better to leave you in to face the lefty, because you are really, really good at getting lefties out. He might have had a harder time getting a bunt down with two outs against you than he did against Tonkin.

[Kwak]

Somebody remind me--Please!--why did we pay for a new stadium that results in ticket prices being tripled?  Was it the Limestone? The Sunshine? What?

[jorgenswest]

Both guys have options. Any team with a spot on the 40 can claim them and send them to the minors. Later this season they will drop them from the 40 and hope they don't get claimed. It really can have a negative impact on their careers as with each DFA they are in a 10 day holding pattern. Alex Burnett was tossed around this way in 2013. He was in 4 organizations and pitched 17.2 innings across 5 teams. If the MLB cared about the livelihood of these men fighting to have a career, they would require the acquiring team to keep them on the 40 the remainder of the season.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Both guys have options. Any team with a spot on the 40 can claim them and send them to the minors. Later this season they will drop them from the 40 and hope they don't get claimed. It really can have a negative impact on their careers as with each DFA they are in a 10 day holding pattern. Alex Burnett was tossed around this way in 2013. He was in 4 organizations and pitched 17.2 innings across 5 teams. If the MLB cared about the livelihood of these men fighting to have a career, they would require the acquiring team to keep them on the 40 the remainder of the season.

We've been over this. The players get MLB salaries while in DFA limbo, and they get higher salaries while they remain on a 40 man roster.

 

If you make it harder for another team to claim them for their own 40 man roster, they will just drop off the Twins 40 man but remain property of the Twins, getting a lower salary in AAA and be further removed from a return MLB callup. It would hurt the players financially.

[USAFChief]

We've been over this. The players get MLB salaries while in DFA limbo, and they get higher salaries while they remain on a 40 man roster.

If you make it harder for another team to claim them, they will just drop off a 40 man and get a lower salary and be further removed from a return MLB callup. It would hurt the players financially.

Also, there are only 40 spots on the 40 man. Keeping someone on it who is " fighting to have a career" denies a spot to someone else "fighting to have a career."

[stringer bell]

Of the four guys DFAed/waived, no one has been claimed as yet. If none are claimed, only Fien would likely leave the organization. The Twins can outright Milone and wait and see if he's needed in the rotation, similar to last year, but with different 40-man issues. If Fien clears (I think he will), he will have the option of going to Rochester or being a free agent. I think he is about 99% certain of being a free agent. I think the team wants Graham and O'Rourke in their organization, but they have used 40-man space to bring up Mastro and Centeno, both of whom don't figure to last until the All-Star break on the big league team.

[bird]

 

At this point I agree. It's not going to be as exciting to watch the Twins while they're down there. But there's not much of a choice until they figure out their issues at the plate.

 

 

And besides Rosario, Buxton, and Kepler needing more time than we'd like, there are others, most notably Murphy, whose issues are at AND behind the plate. And Vargas may not be cooked yet, who knows?

 

I get the sentiment of hating the thought of Centeno and Maestro, but the problem needs to be addressed. Given the failure on Ryan's part to be decidedly more proactive during the off-season, especially regarding his poor decision to not bring in at least one more very solid BP arm, we have a hopefully temporary need to go with uninspiring alternatives like these two guys. My question is, what's the better near-term alternative to Maestro and Centeno?

 

And don't say firing the FO. Can't fill a roster spot with a pink slip.

[beckmt]

RIght now Twins players are not worth very much.  I also am sure other GM are calling trying to get prospects or players who are down for as little as they can.  I feel Dozier or Plouffe can bring back some value, more for Dozier than Plouffe.

Maybe see if Yankees are interested in Plouffe for like Severino(who is pitching badly and is being considered for demotion).  They may be more parts to be moved, but just using this as a start.

Padres would like more of a salary dump.  Do not see that as helping the Twins. 

[dxpavelka]

Yay.  Mastroiani's back.  Does this mean Shane Robinson, Sam Fuld and Alex Pressley were all unavailable?  And can somebody tell me what a guy with a 13.5 K/9 is doing throwing meaningless 1 inning bullpen outings?

 

[whosafraidofluigirussolo]

Bit of a surprise: Berardino reports that Milone cleared waivers but Fien was claimed.

 

[jimmer]

 

Bit of a surprise: Berardino reports that Milone cleared waivers but Fien was claimed.

 

Only one of those things is a surprise, and that's the fact the Dodgers would pick up Fien :-)

[Lee-The-Twins-Fan]

Murphy for Centeno I understand. Bringing back Santana was a given. It's the Mastroianni move that I question. Why bring up any outfielder who's hitting .208 in AAA? Byron Buxton has turned things around at AAA and is hitting .313. He was already on the 40-man roster. OF Adam Walker is hitting .240 with 4 hrs and is also on the 40-man. OF Daniel Palka is at AA, and is hitting .308 with 4 hrs and a .408 OBP (he's not on the roster). The Twins clearly had other options, yet they chose to add a poor-hitting OF. I just don't get it. They could have kept Graham or O'Rourke and sent one of them to AAA. They're sacrificing one potentially good pitcher for a mediocre OF, someone who's never been a good OF. Replacing mediocrity with mediocrity. I just don't get it.

[Danchat]

Wow, not sure why the Dodgers would want Fien, but they can go right ahead and take him and his $2.275M. I'm also surprised that Milone didn't get claimed. The Angels have lost most of their starting pitchers, so I suspected they might claim him, but no.

 

This means the Twins have 2 spots on the 25 man and 40 man roster. I wonder what they plan on doing. The bullpen has just 5 guys right now, so I think they'll have to add some bodies there.

 

Update: Darren Wolfson is reporting that Pat Dean and Brandon Kintzler are coming up. 

[beckmt]

 

Wow, not sure why the Dodgers would want Fien, but they can go right ahead and take him and his $2.275M. I'm also surprised that Milone didn't get claimed. The Angels have lost most of their starting pitchers, so I suspected they might claim him, but no.

 

This means the Twins have 2 spots on the 25 man and 40 man roster. I wonder what they plan on doing. The bullpen has just 5 guys right now, so I think they'll have to add some bodies there.

 

Update: Darren Wolfson is reporting that Pat Dean and Brandon Kintzler are coming up. 

Do not understand Pat Dean,  Kintzler will function as a long reliever,  which the Twins have needed since the start of the season.  I see no use for Pat Dean, but will shall see.

[Danchat]

 

Do not understand Pat Dean,  Kintzler will function as a long reliever,  which the Twins have needed since the start of the season.  I see no use for Pat Dean, but will shall see.

I don't get it either. Dean is a guy who looks like a younger Tommy Milone. He can't strike people out, so they put him in the bullpen... I don't understand. I'd rather keep Milone than bring up Dean.

 

The Twins moves aren't making sense anymore. Over the past two days they've added Centeno, Mastroianni, Dean, and Kintzler. Now that the season's lost, let's add all the mediocre veteran talent we can get!

[DocBauer]

Murphy for Centeno I understand. Bringing back Santana was a given. It's the Mastroianni move that I question. Why bring up any outfielder who's hitting .208 in AAA? Byron Buxton has turned things around at AAA and is hitting .313. He was already on the 40-man roster. OF Adam Walker is hitting .240 with 4 hrs and is also on the 40-man. OF Daniel Palka is at AA, and is hitting .308 with 4 hrs and a .408 OBP (he's not on the roster). The Twins clearly had other options, yet they chose to add a poor-hitting OF. I just don't get it. They could have kept Graham or O'Rourke and sent one of them to AAA. They're sacrificing one potentially good pitcher for a mediocre OF, someone who's never been a good OF. Replacing mediocrity with mediocrity. I just don't get it.

The reason Mastro is back, in theory, is he can PR and be a defensive replacement, with a start here and there against LH pitching. I'm not saying he's an ideal option. And I could be accused of attempting to spin things in a positive manner. And I really wish we had Sweeney still around, or another veteran option. But I'd rather promote a 5th OF bench option...for NOW...than interrupt much needed playing time and AB for Buxton, Kepler and Walker. Yes, Buxton is playing better. I get that. And he is super, super talented with a potentially huge future in front of him. But having already been promoted twice when not ready, I feel it's a lot better to give him more prep time and experience, as wel, as continued confidence and good mojo, than to rush him right back.

 

Come on waiver wire!

[Otto von Ballpark]

Dean and Kintzler. Ha! Yeah, this org is really turning over a new leaf, making room for all those young flamethrowers...

[Otto von Ballpark]

Of the four guys DFAed/waived, no one has been claimed as yet.

Fien claimed. And to be fair, Graham and O'Rourke quite likely haven't been waived yet, so they can't be claimed by anyone (yet).

[diehardtwinsfan]

As a starter, I don't think Dean has much value, but he's one of those guys who could suddenly get a lot better by throwing a bit harder in the pen.  I think I'd rather see Chargois, but he'll probably get some time in AAA first.  I'm assuming Shaggy gets the bump to AAA.  At least I hope he does. He's been unhittable in AA.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Still somewhat perplexed that Fein was claimed and Milone was not.

[Mike Sixel]

So, where are all these typing RP we were told were next in line, and that's why they didn't sign anyone this of season? It's like they are trying to decrease attendance. Because otherwise, I have no idea what the plan is.

[DocBauer]

Wow, not sure why the Dodgers would want Fien, but they can go right ahead and take him and his $2.275M. I'm also surprised that Milone didn't get claimed. The Angels have lost most of their starting pitchers, so I suspected they might claim him, but no.

 

This means the Twins have 2 spots on the 25 man and 40 man roster. I wonder what they plan on doing. The bullpen has just 5 guys right now, so I think they'll have to add some bodies there.

 

Update: Darren Wolfson is reporting that Pat Dean and Brandon Kintzler are coming up.

 

Also really surprised Fien was claimed and not Milone. Please, please, if Fien does well for the Dodgers, new team and new league that doesn't know him, lets not jump on some "the Twins should known better" bandwagon.

 

I'm confused about the Dean promotion. I just don't get it. He is not a top prospect by any means, but I'm not a hater. The vitriol against him is very misplaced, IMO. And he may end up doing a great job, who knows. But if you are not going to keep and use O'Rourke as an effective LOOGY, then why bring up Boshers? I know he's just turning 28 and was in the independent leagues a year ago, but he was good there, seems to throw fairly hard, had a solid ST, has excellent numbers at Rochester through 10 appearances and 12 IP.

[S.]

 

Dean and Kintzler. 

http://cdn.nextimpulsesports.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/larrydavid.gif

 

 

[bird]

 

So, where are all these typing RP we were told were next in line, and that's why they didn't sign anyone this of season? It's like they are trying to decrease attendance. Because otherwise, I have no idea what the plan is.

 

 

The plan was for Burdi to not hit the DL-twice already. The plan was for Reed to show some semblance of the Reed they saw in the Arizona Fall League. The plan was for Chargois to return from a prolonged injury hiatus and show he's ready for the big time early in 2016. The plan was for maybe one or two other guys to emerge who fit in the "Plan B" category- guys like Tonkin and Melotakis, Rogers, Graham.

 

This reality, for me, doesn't excuse Ryan from what I believe was a poor decision to pass on bringing one more RP with better credentials then Abad and Kintzler.  While the off-season RP decision a poor one, I think some of the characterizations of the RP decisions are way way over the top. Very few things are going right at the moment, which turns a poor or questionable move into part of a highly visible total system failure.

 

Which top RP prospect should have been called up? I guess one could argue both sides of a decision about Chargois, and you can be sure the Twins field staff did exactly that, but who else?