Twins DFA'd O'Rourke and Graham, Maestro up

[zenser]

Has anyone heard when the Juan Centeno jerseys are arriving at the clubhouse store at Target Field?  I want to make sure I get mine!

[PseudoSABR]

 

I don't think there is any way to view these moves as any kind of meaningful change in direction or housecleaning.

I was responding to Levi's post, specifically (so take it within that context) - not insinuating this is a housecleaning; however, these moves combined with waiving Fien and Milone demonstrate a change for how the Twins go about business.  When's the last time they waived/dfa'd four pitchers in two days?   

[diehardtwinsfan]

To be clear on Graham and O'Rourke.  DFA means they are being removed from the 40 man and sent to Rochester.  Someone can claim them and put them on their 40 man, but this does not mean that neither guy is with the org anymore.  Both may remain.  This is just clearing up spots on the 40 man and adjusting to the fact that both Rosario and Murphy haven't been very good.

 

I'm a bit surprised to some extent as to who.  I'm not quite sure how Pat Dean remains on the 40 man, and I've got nothing against him... He's just near the bottom of a long list of SP, and he's old enough that he will only get a look from someone who plans on giving him a shot in the majors.

[wsnydes]

I wasn't a fan of letting Kepler rot on the bench either. But he's in the same boat as Buxton with very little AAA experience. I'd like for Kepler to start hitting better than .205 in AAA before I hand him the keys in the MLB.

I agree, but I didn't want him down there to begin with. If he struggles in the bugs, so be it. Then send him down.

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

 

I'd like to see a Rochester outfield of Rosario, Buxton and Kepler, with Walker DHing and getting a little time in the corners... All four need at bats and to figure things out to be ready for the big leagues... 

I actually think this would be a good thing as well for a while at least. Also, force them to focus on plate discipline and contact. These aren't big power guys, so they will need to get on base to be of value, along with their good defense.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Agree, somewhat, but if they truly want to change the way they do business they should concentrate more on being proactive than reactive.

If reacting to things they should have seen and dealt with months ago is a new way of doing business, colour me unimpressed.

Well, right.  But hind-sight criticism doesn't hold much sway to me. The outrage at offering Milone and Fien arb was relatively muted at the time, and has only become emboldened with hindsight, not with forethought.  

 

Overall? Heck no, I'm not impressed.  They really screwed the pooch on the bullpen construction and getting the bats ready for the season.  Although I am glad they are being bold in changing that and giving opportunities to some often-protected prospects, I'm as disappointed with the results on the field as anyone.   

 

I just don't think we need people putting everything the Twins do in context of how bad they've played.  I can be glad Berrios is in the rotation without someone smearing the Twins losses in my face...

[70charger]

 

Look, everyone can keep slapping each other on the back about how bad the Twins are, but there's nothing ridiculous about noting that the Twins have changed the way they go about handling the roster (and ineffective players), and being happy about those limited moves, even though the roster situation the Twins find themselves is of their own making.  

 

This isn't finding some silver lining, this is a change in the way the Twins usually go about things.   Yes, everyone, the situation could be worse, the Twins could keep throwing ineffective players out there as they've tended to do in the past.  

 

But the "I'm so right about how bad things are" crowd seems to really appreciate your incendiary analogies! So like Bravo.

 

Sometimes Twins fans can't win for losing.

 

We scream our heads off because we want everyone DFA'd like yesterday. Then we scream our heads off when they actually get DFA'd today.

[70charger]

I was thinking literally like 2 days ago of posting a new forum topic about how, if we're going to be losing, we ought to be losing young. I didn't do it because I'm busy and not often that eloquent, but I have to say that they look like they've started the process.

 

Roster turnover is a good thing for this team. There is undeniable talent in the minors, and the guys who have already arrived need to both move into their proper spots and take their lumps at the major league level. Those who haven't quite arrived need to stay in the minors and develop, yes, but they also need to be unblocked when they come up. Better Buxton displaces Mastroianni in July than a guy on a three year contract. Better Chargois replaces Abad in July than a guy on a three year contract. 

 

We're already losing. Let's take a little more pain now for a better future later. This isn't a panic move. This is step two of like five. We ought to be celebrating.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I was responding to Levi's post, specifically (so take it within that context) - not insinuating this is a housecleaning; however, these moves combined with waiving Fien and Milone demonstrate a change for how the Twins go about business. When's the last time they waived/dfa'd four pitchers in two days?

I guess they get points for the quantity of moves, rather the quality? With the state of the bullpen, potentially losing two (albeit modest) options in Graham and O'Rourke to make way for temporary bench placeholders in Mastro and Centeno seems like more of the same roster mismanagement.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Sometimes Twins fans can't win for losing.

 

We scream our heads off because we want everyone DFA'd like yesterday. Then we scream our heads off when they actually get DFA'd today.

They DFA'd two guys and added two more DFA candidates. Seems at best a lateral move, and considering the modest potential, position, and options of O'Rourke and Graham, quite likely a downgrade.

[S.]

 

We're already losing. Let's take a little more pain now for a better future later. This isn't a panic move. This is step two of like five. We ought to be celebrating.

4 years ago people were saying the same things about being calm and we had plenty of time for our young prospects to develop. So, if its 2016 and we're only on step 2 of 5, when exactly do we get to the part where we aren't awful? 

[70charger]

 

They DFA'd two guys and added two more DFA candidates. Seems at best a lateral move, and considering the modest potential, position, and options of O'Rourke and Graham, quite likely a downgrade.

 

Read the next post I made. I don't mind them adding Mastro because I know that he'll be replaced by Buxton reasonably soon. I don't mind them clearing out bullpen space for the young hard-throwers. 

 

But sending Murphy down is absolutely the right move. Moving Milone (however it takes) in favor of better starting options is absolutely the right move. Sending Fien out is absolutely the right move. I'm a little iffy on Graham, but I really don't know why we're down on the idea behind all this.

[70charger]

 

4 years ago people were saying the same things about being calm and we had plenty of time for our young prospects to develop. So, if its 2016 and we're only on step 2 of 5, when exactly do we get to the part where we aren't awful? 

 

If you think that right now and four years ago have anything in common, then we won't agree on much.

[70charger]

Also, to clarify, step 2 of 5 was a simple descriptor of the short-term roster moves that ought to be made this season. It has nothing to do with years past. Let's leave the bull**** in the past.

[PseudoSABR]

 

I guess they get points for the quantity of moves, rather the quality? With the state of the bullpen, potentially losing two (albeit modest) options in Graham and O'Rourke to make way for temporary bench placeholders in Mastro and Centeno seems like more of the same roster mismanagement.

No one is excited about Mastro, (or Centeno), I too wish there were better options in the minor league, but I am hyped we won't have a 32-man bullpen and no bench players.    The same roster mismanagement would have been sending Rosario/Berrios down, and not waiving Fien or Milone or DFAing Graham and ORourke.   Things are bad, but the traditional Twins approach would be worse (I don't know why saying this is even controversial). 

[Thrylos]

 

What's the alternative? CAll back Buxton and let him flail, or sit on the bench?

 

The alternative would be to clean up house starting at TwinsPrez all the way down to the trainer, hire a baseball person to run the whole show, hire a GM, manager etc  and maybe build a team that will not go 25 seasons between WS appearances.

 

[Mike Sixel]

Cutting bad players faster is a nice start in changing. Now they should learn to add great players. That would also help.

[Riverbrian]

It's actually pretty impressive.

 

We have people who think we are not young enough and we have people who think we are too young. 

 

And the Twins Brass seems to have pissed off both sides. 

 

That's pretty impressive!!! 

[stringer bell]

Fien, O'Rourke, and Graham are all relief pitchers who have options remaining/ They are being moved off the 40-man. Connecting the dots here and what I see if roster space cleared for the young hard throwers really soon. To me, that is good news. Milone was moved for a good reason--the Twins want one or both of Duffey and Berrios in the major league rotation. That is good news. I don't like seeing Mastroianni in the majors and especially not in a Twins uniform, but he is going to be the fifth outfielder. Santana starts in center, Arcia and Rosario both get time in left and Sano is in right. If Rosario continues to struggle, I believe we'll see Kepler (who BTW isn't tearing up AAA) and he'll play regularly. I suppose if Arcia goes all 2015, Kepler will get his chance, as well.

 

Murphy needed to be sent down. He wasn't receiving that well and he sure wasn't hitting. It is nice that Centeno hits lefty. He had a really good spring training and IIRC, his rep is good as a defensive catcher. Maybe he can make a place for himself as a backup, while Murphy tries to find his mojo.

 

Everyone in the offseason had 23 to 25 guys right on the 25 man team. As usual, players have disappointed and some of them are being replaced. The unsaid message probably is that the team isn't going to contend this year (shock!) and might not next year-that ticks me off, but it is probably reality.

[Otto von Ballpark]

No one is excited about Mastro, (or Centeno), I too wish there were better options in the minor league, but I am hyped we won't have a 32-man bullpen and no bench players. The same roster mismanagement would have been sending Rosario/Berrios down, and not waiving Fien or Milone or DFAing Graham and ORourke. Things are bad, but the traditional Twins approach would be worse (I don't know why saying this is even controversial).

I think you are being far too kind to say these aren't basically traditional moves. We have a bad bullpen, with little immediate help at the ready, but we just needlessly dropped two relievers with options to add two go-nowhere bench players, while holding on to Vargas (struggling, blocked, and out of options next year) and Pat Dean (also blocked).

 

If and when Milone or Fien is actually sent packing, I will be more encouraged. The other moves so far are just questionable deck chair shuffling.

[Teflon]

It appears the Twins are tweaking their mix of replacement-level players in hopes of finding some who can actually play at replacement level. +3 wins if that goes well.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Fien, O'Rourke, and Graham are all relief pitchers who have options remaining/ They are being moved off the 40-man. Connecting the dots here and what I see if roster space cleared for the young hard throwers really soon. To me, that is good news.

Young hard throwers, plural? Burdi is the only one remotely close who is not already on the 40 man, and he has been slowed by health concerns and is off to a slow start at AA. I guess Reed isn't on the 40 man either, but last I saw he was doing pretty poorly at AA again.

 

Chargois would seem to be at the head of the pack, and he is already on the 40 man. No need to clear 40 man space for him.

[S.]

 

If you think that right now and four years ago have anything in common, then we won't agree on much.

We'll have to agree to disagree. The roster construction, pitching staff, and performance of the team seems to be much closer to 4 years ago than anything I would consider "rebuilt".  I don't know how you can say to leave the BS in the past when we're still right in the middle of it. It's hard to leave it in the past when your GM has continued to operate the exact same way each offseason and then acts surprised when his failed tactics continue to fail.

 

I don't enjoy watching the Twins play this poorly, I don't think any of us do. I just fail to see how we intend to drastically improve when our GM refuses to address our positions of need. Our bullpen has been weak for years. What do we do every offseason? Sign has-beens and never-has-beens. Our catching has been very very weak. What do we do? Trade our one MLB ready CF for a catcher who makes Suzuki look like Mike Piazza. Log jam in the corners of the infield? Let's move our top prospect to RF where he has never played, to make space for Trevor Plouffe.

 

It's not like we're 2 prospects away from being a WS contender. Hell, our top pitcher is probably worse than any serious playoff contender's 3rd starter. I know we can't change the offseason moves now in the middle of the season, but this team can't fix all of it's issues in the middle of the season either. It's crazy to try to pretend the last few years of BS haven't led to where we are today.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Read the next post I made. I don't mind them adding Mastro because I know that he'll be replaced by Buxton reasonably soon. I don't mind them clearing out bullpen space for the young hard-throwers.

 

See my post above. In terms of the 40 man, there is no need to clear that space.

 

While waiting for Buxton, I think I would have rather held on to O'Rourke and actually deployed him as a strict LOOGY.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Yes, everyone, the situation could be worse, the Twins could keep throwing ineffective players out there as they've tended to do in the past.  

 

But the "I'm so right about how bad things are" crowd seems to really appreciate your incendiary analogies! So like Bravo.

 

You mean....like Darin Mastroianni?

 

You are trying the cute little silver lining thing, there isn't one - this mess is of their own making.  We shouldn't be congratulating them for recognizing it.

[Otto von Ballpark]

If Berardino's speculation is correct, the next bullpen arms to get any open 40 man spots could be Kintzler and Boshers.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

 Trade our one MLB ready CF

 

Did we get Span back somehow and trade him again?  There weren't any MLB ready CFs on our roster this offseason.

[S.]

 

Did we get Span back somehow and trade him again?  There weren't any MLB ready CFs on our roster this offseason.

Aaron Hicks? Maybe MLB ready was a stretch but certainly a hell of a lot better option than Santana. Or Mastroianni. Or throwing Buxton out there to flounder with no real backup option, same as we did to Hicks.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

You mean....like Darin Mastroianni?

 

You are trying the cute little silver lining thing, there isn't one - this mess is of their own making.  We shouldn't be congratulating them for recognizing it.

 

There's some truth to this, though I have to say they actually recognized it (which sadly is an accomplishment) and did so earlier than they usually do when they make a mistake (which sadly is also an accomplishment).

 

You're right though, this is very much a mess of their own making, and at some point someone needs to be accountable.  Honestly, I think that has to be TR at this point. 

 

As for Maestro, yeah, not really much to say there.  They didn't have a backup plan for CF... oh wait, they did.  It was Rosario, who was hardly a sure thing to begin with... Of course, let's not all get revisionist here, as TD was very high on him only  two months ago.  But Buxton needs more time, and Rosario discovered he needs it to.  That's what Maestro is for.  He's that warm body to fill in for plan C when he needs a break until plan A or B is ready, which is probably 2017 at the earliest.

 

[TheLeviathan]

 

As for Maestro, yeah, not really much to say there.  They didn't have a backup plan for CF... oh wait, they did.  It was Rosario, who was hardly a sure thing to begin with... Of course, let's not all get revisionist here, as TD was very high on him only  two months ago.  But Buxton needs more time, and Rosario discovered he needs it to.  That's what Maestro is for.  He's that warm body to fill in for plan C when he needs a break until plan A or B is ready, which is probably 2017 at the earliest.

 

Mastro is bad enough, but this cute little "hey, they're holding ineffective players accountable!" meme doesn't gain much traction if the next bullpen arm up is Boshers.

 

I don't know how anyone can argue they're trying to improve their situation by calling up these guys.  This is an indictment of an awful offseason and that rests squarely at one person's feet.  (And I've generally been ok with Ryan, but this is it for me - time to move on Terry.  The game passed you by as it does to everyone at some point or another)