Sorry...Buxton is a flop

[tobi0040]

I was surprised to see that Trout has only stolen 27 bases COMBINED in the last two years. I wonder if that's based primarily on having Pujols hitting behind him?

 

I could live with 15 HR, 60 SB, and Gold Glove defense in center. Not a problem.

Yeah even a .250 hitter with 15 HR and 60 SB and multiple gold gloves is a really good player. That is where the "flop" word will likely backfire. He is a legit 3 WAR player on defense alone

[tobi0040]

Poor Span continues to be devalued by our fan base. One of the most under-rated players in the game and certainly under-rated by a huge chunk of the Twins fan base when he was here and now that he's gone.

Yeah. A very good player that was under-rated here by many.

 

Hard to argue the league under-rated him. Will have about five seasons making 10+ million. Was a sought after free agent. Was traded for a top 30 prospect that many pegged as an ace, who was impressive in the futures game.

[jimmer]

 

Yeah. A very good player that was under-rated here by many.

Hard to argue the league under-rated him. Will have about five seasons making 10+ million. Was a sought after free agent. Was traded for a top 30 prospect that many pegged as an ace, who was impressive in the futures game.

Hasn't had even one year where he got paid that and only has two coming up for sure.

 

In any event, that's not really much for a starting veteran player.  How many All Star games does he have?  How often is he on a top 10 CF list, etc?

[DocBauer]

TAP...TAP...WHOO...WHOO... (this is blowing in the mic)...is this thread stilL on?

[tobi0040]

Hasn't had even one year where he got paid that and only has two coming up for sure.

 

In any event, that's not really much for a starting veteran player. How many All Star games does he have? How often is he on a top 10 CF list, etc?

I meant to write "about 10 million or more". And I was lazy when I looked it up. It is 4 and I didn't realize one is an option. But he did come up at 24 and signed a Sweetheart deal that bought out his arb and a few FA years. He did not become a free agent until after his age 31 season, which he Happened to get hurt and miss 100 games.

 

I could not find any all star games, but he finished 19th in the MVP one year and was 10th in position player WAR in another. 4 years with a WAR over 3.

 

So being under-valued carries outside MN

[Shane Wahl]

Just have to relax. Let the players play baseball and certainly don't yank them around between AAA and MLB. Buxton will be great.

[Reider]

Buxton is obviously an excellent talent. He can cover a lot of ground in the outfield and can run the bases as fast as anyone. However, he is still very young and his hitting isn't at the Major League level yet. It's just going to take some more time for him to develop into a Major League hitter.

[jsteve96]

 

That would be like the Timberwolves trading a good power forward for a washed up Kevin Garnett.

 

Only an idiot would do that.

 

Anyway, the Twins did not trade Ortiz, they just let him go for nothing.

To be fair, Thaddeus was pretty bad with the Twolves.. he didn't showed much promise..

[dxpavelka]

 

That would be like the Timberwolves trading a good power forward for a washed up Kevin Garnett.

 

Only an idiot would do that.

 

Anyway, the Twins did not trade Ortiz, they just let him go for nothing.

SARCASM:  1:  the use of words that mean the opposite of what you really want to say especially in order to insult someone, to show irritation, or to be funny; 2:  a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain; 3:  a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language; a mode of expression intended to arouse amusement;  P.S.:  The Timberwolves don't have a good PF.  Probably a bigger need than a coach.

[Mike Sixel]

KLAW posted a question and answer on his chat today about him, but I can't get there right now to link to it....basically, let him play up here, was his answer, I think.

[Linus]

I think Buxton will be fine but he didn't look against that slop Jungman was throwing up there. I understand getting dominated by good pitchers but that was awful.

[Minniman]

 

SARCASM:  1:  the use of words that mean the opposite of what you really want to say especially in order to insult someone, to show irritation, or to be funny; 2:  a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain; 3:  a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language; a mode of expression intended to arouse amusement;  P.S.:  The Timberwolves don't have a good PF.  Probably a bigger need than a coach.

 

I got the sarcasm. I just wanted to add another Minnesota related jab at a front office. When Boston picked up Ortiz, a was upset. Many Twins fans gave me the "He hasn't done anything, so what's the big deal?" line. One just doesn't give up that power potential for nothing, and the Twins did exactly that.

 

For the Wolves, the Wiggins/Love deal looked good at first, but Thaddeus Young needed to be signed, and I have no idea why the Wolves kept Anthony Bennett over a first round pick from Miami. Then the Wolves traded Young for a washed up Kevin Garnett which made the deal much worse. If it had been Garnett five years ago, then fine, but not now.

 

That would have been like the Vikings trading Everson Griffen to Chicago for a last hurrah with Jared Allen or the Twins bringing in a long lost Twins outfielder for $10.5 million for one season just prior to his retirement.

 

I do agree about the Wolves needing a PF, and that is why that trade was not a good one. We probably should find someplace else to talk about the Wolves, or our posts will get deleted.

 

 

[nytwinsfan]

 

I like Buxton, not his swing though. He'll never develop power with no leg kick or stride. He looks like a right handed Denard Span, and he should be much, much more.

I have no clue what to think about Buxton until the team puts him in a more appropriate swing, which I would guess will occur at some point.

I dunno, can't we worry about him getting on base first before we worry about power? If he just gets on base his ability to turn doubles into triples and singles into doubles (and BBs into doubles through SB) will make him pretty valuable.

[bluechipper]

 

I got the sarcasm. I just wanted to add another Minnesota related jab at a front office. When Boston picked up Ortiz, a was upset. Many Twins fans gave me the "He hasn't done anything, so what's the big deal?" line. One just doesn't give up that power potential for nothing, and the Twins did exactly that.

 

For the Wolves, the Wiggins/Love deal looked good at first, but Thaddeus Young needed to be signed, and I have no idea why the Wolves kept Anthony Bennett over a first round pick from Miami. Then the Wolves traded Young for a washed up Kevin Garnett which made the deal much worse. If it had been Garnett five years ago, then fine, but not now.

 

That would have been like the Vikings trading Everson Griffen to Chicago for a last hurrah with Jared Allen or the Twins bringing in a long lost Twins outfielder for $10.5 million for one season just prior to his retirement.

 

I do agree about the Wolves needing a PF, and that is why that trade was not a good one. We probably should find someplace else to talk about the Wolves, or our posts will get deleted.

I think you're forgetting the whole part about Garnett being the best player in Wolves history and him being a legend of  the game who could be the best possible mentor for all of the team's young talent.

[Minniman]

 

I think you're forgetting the whole part about Garnett being the best player in Wolves history and him being a legend of  the game who could be the best possible mentor for all of the team's young talent.

 

Then hire him as a coach.

 

[Eris]

 

I wonder if scouts and prospect nerds have short memories like the rest of us. Maybe the ascent of Mike Trout and advanced statistics, especially the emphasis on outfield defense, conspired to inflate Buxton's stock going all the way back to the 2012 draft. Probably didn't help that he runs like the wind either. Easy to be wooed by sheer SPEED. Its too early to call him a bust but its past time we adjust our expectations for the kid. Maybe a Melvin Upton type career arc was a more realistic projection for him all along.

 

I think Mike Trout is somewhat of an exception from a scouting perspective.  There were a number of things that conspired to allow him to fall to the Angels, including that his hometown of Millville NJ is in the middle of nowhere as far as NJ is concerned.  In NJ the baseball high school powerhouses are in northern NJ, an area that is heavily scouted (Twins high picks from this area include Willie Banks and Shooter Hunt, both of which did not turn out well).  His drafting by the Angels is covered here:  

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/trout-377425-morhardt-bane.html

Note the connection between Jeff Trout (Twins 5th round draft pick) and the Angels scout Greg Morhardt (also a Twins farmhand).

 

With regards to Buxton's development, one of the items that is difficult to predict is a players ability to make adjustments after pitchers identify weaknesses.  There are many examples of this on the Twins and elsewhere (e.g., there is an excellent article on TD from last year on Plouffe's inability to hit or layoff a low inside fastball, sorry I can't find the article).  In Buxton's case he can not hit a major league curve ball.  In the minors (and high school), few pitchers can throw good curve balls for strikes.  In the majors, most pitchers (or at least many) can throw curveballs for strikes.  Until Buxton learns how to make this adjustment, he will struggle at the plate.  If he can not make this adjustment, his ceiling will be low.  If he makes the adjustment, he is an all-star.  As has been mentioned elsewhere on TD it would appear that Buxton's problem is pitch recognition, if this is indeed the situation, it will be a while (maybe months, maybe never) before he can be a 0.300 hitter.

[ashbury]

In Buxton's case he can not hit a major league curve ball.

I don't know why I feel it important to add that he also can not lay off the breaking pitch in the dirt. It's still pitch recognition, of course.

[Willihammer]

He can't hit a curveball, and he doesn't do much with fastballs either. That's far more disappointing IMO. 

 

According to brooks, he's batting .246 and slugging .400 against four seems. .237/.316 against sinkers.

 

By comparison, Rosario, who we all know will swing through a curveball just as badly, hits .266/.451 against four seems, and .421/.653 against sinkers.

[ashbury]

He can't hit a curveball, and he doesn't do much with fastballs either. That's far more disappointing IMO.

And it works against the strategy you can use against breaking pitches, of moving forward in the batter's box to try and hit the ball before it breaks as much. That requires confidence of being able to handle the high fastball which now comes at you even quicker. Quite the dilemma. C'mon Bruno, work some magic here!

[Riverbrian]

Metrics: 

 

44 Plate Appearances

 

6 Ground Balls

 

He Needs Lou to give him the Willie Mays Hayes treatment. 

[Champuckett]

Is Buxton going to be Hicks 2.0 or Hunter 2.0?  Hunter got sent down a bunch of times before having an explosive 2001 season.  Hicks.. never overcame his difficulties.

[The Wise One]

 

Then hire him as a coach.

There are more than enough situations where a player is more effective to the environment than a coach. See Philly.  The Twins could have all first and second year position players except for Mauer, Escobar, Nunez, and Suzuki. It would be an all upside team, but teams do need player leadership.

[bluechipper]

 

Is Buxton going to be Hicks 2.0 or Hunter 2.0?  Hunter got sent down a bunch of times before having an explosive 2001 season.  Hicks.. never overcame his difficulties.

Way closer to Torii. I'll bet he ends up having a better career than what Torii had.

[mudcat14]

They've got to send him down now though, before they ruin him.  Santana comes back tomorrow and will be the primary CF until Buck starts raking at Rochester.

[Minniman]

Buxton is 9 for 12 in the last three games.

 

That is pretty darn good.

[jokin]

 

Buxton is 9 for 12 in the last three games.

 

That is pretty darn good.

 

Naw, "flop"/sarc

 

But seriously though, the K rate is going to have to be addressed here real soon (after today, his K% is just shy of FIFTY PERCENT)

[Minniman]

 

Naw, "flop"/sarc

 

But seriously though, the K rate is going to have to be addressed here real soon (after today, his K% is just shy of FIFTY PERCENT)

 

I don't recall ever seeing a player strike out 9 times out of 12 official at bats. It may have happened, but I don't recall seeing such futility.

 

He did walk twice, so it was 9 SO out of 14 PA, but that is still horrible.

[jimmer]

Buxton has struck out a thin hair under 50% of the time.

[Riverbrian]

I'd like to say to the front office... Well... You had to expect this so... ride it out. 

 

But I can't

 

Because you can't keep throwing Buxton up there like this. 

 

Send him down and make a note that it's been 4 straight years of swinging and missing at the opening day CF Position. 

 

[Bark's Lounge]

Buck will be okay. Hell, he might K 200 times this year, but as he gets into the groove as the season progresses, he will excite us and make evident his promise. At least for the first few years of his career he is going to be an up your ass strike out guy, Relax, stretch out, take a breather, everything will be okay with this guy. Players like Buxton are not refined products, and sometimes the minors won't solve those equations. Buxton is a super talent and none of us have even a fine hair of talent to judge him on a professional level. Let it ride and take the good with the bad.