Sorry...Buxton is a flop

[HitInAPinch]

So, how is this whole "Buxton is a flop" thing going ??   

 

[twinsnorth49]

So, how is this whole "Buxton is a flop" thing going ??

 

Seems to be a lot of flip "flopping".....

 

 

Wahahahaha

 

 

 

I kill me.

[HitInAPinch]

 

Seems to be a lot of flip "flopping".....


Wahahahaha



I kill me.

LIKE LIKE LIKE  !!!

[jimmer]

As always, when figuring out if a player is a flop, it's going to depend on what kind of expectations people have for him.  He had a fantastic first week back, then struggled for a couple weeks, and has now had a really good week.

 

We need to see what he can do for a full season or two in the majors, without earning a demotion, and compare it to what we have expected of him to figure out of he's a bust or not. 

[Rosterman]

Well, if he doesn't show improvement next season, we always have Granite and English in the wings. Not quite as initial high hopes, but could adequately toil in centerfield while we trade Buxton for a catcher.

 

[Craig Arko]

Seems to be a lot of flip "flopping".....

Wahahahaha

I kill me.

Don't forget to write me into your will.

[spinowner]

After an adjustment period Buxton has excelled every time he's moved up a level in the minors. There's no reason to expect that he won't do the same in the majors. Past performance is not a guarantee of future results, but for him to be where he is at age 22 is certainly reason for optimism. There are a lot of baseball players who would trade places with him in a heartbeat.

[Mike Sixel]

I love the gloating parts of the thread also....it's a bit early. But, at least now there is hope.

[DaveW]

 

Actually, that's not true.  Morneau didn't become Morneau until about 1000 ML PA.  Guzman struggled a lot before becoming an all-star.  Koskie didn't make the bigs til 26.  Cuddyer had the bust label on him.  Scott Baker was sent back and forth to AAA several times.  Etc, etc.  Young players struggle on every team. 

I didn't realize that/remember that.

See what happens when players become awesome? You forget all about the early on struggles.

[jimmer]

I didn't realize that/remember that.

 

See what happens when players become awesome? You forget all about the early on struggles.

morneau started off awesome in 2003 and took the 1B spot. then he had an offseason from hell before the 2004 season. Couldn't prepare for the season due to one bad health thing after another.

[gunnarthor]

 

I didn't realize that/remember that.

See what happens when players become awesome? You forget all about the early on struggles.

Happens to every one.  Cliff Lee needed 125 starts to get to 5 WAR and then he became the Cliff Lee everyone remembers.  Doc Holliday made the majors as a rookie at 22 and was sent to high A ball at 24.  

Buxton will be fine in the long run.

[TheLeviathan]

Patience.  I'll keep preaching it with young players.  Just show some freaking patience.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Patience.  I'll keep preaching it with young players.  Just show some freaking patience.

Yep. I understand it's really hard to show patience when a team is this horrible. What frustrates me the most is seeing some posters who have been with us for up to ten years making the same impatient mistakes with prospect after prospect after prospect...

 

Showing concern is fine. Buxton's swing and general approach was a real cause for concern and gave substance to talk about exactly what it was this coaching staff was doing with its players.

 

On the other hand, Sano was a beast in his rookie year. Kepler was a beast for a couple of months before tailing off as pitchers adjusted to him (a common cycle among young players). Polanco was solid across the board, though he tailed off a bit in the last month of the season (but still had an OPS over .700). So I'm not sure it's entirely on the coaching staff, either.

 

It's hard to glean real information or trends when we're dealing with a handful of data points, where one guy's success/failure can skew the entire outlook.

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

 

Button is the perfect example of what the Twins should continue to look for in the middle. Fielders who can hit, not hitters who can field. He looks like he is starting to get it. A little longer than normal, but on the same plane as he did in every other stop along the way.

And he is only going to get younger;)

[Mike Sixel]

Well, we've been told to be patient for 5 or 6 years now.....on the team. And, every year, those goal posts move....every year. Some of us, knowing that fandom is 100% irrational, aren't going to act rationally, it just isn't going to happen. Hopefully we can still be friends!

[jimmer]

I heard yesterday on MLB Network that we have the worst record this decade.

 

So we have THAT going for us.

[twinsnorth49]

I heard yesterday on MLB Network that we have the worst record this decade.

 

So we have THAT going for us.

It's comforting to know we excel at something.

[gunnarthor]

 

Well, we've been told to be patient for 5 or 6 years now.....on the team. And, every year, those goal posts move....every year. Some of us, knowing that fandom is 100% irrational, aren't going to act rationally, it just isn't going to happen. Hopefully we can still be friends!

Well 6 years ago we were losing to the Yankees in the first round.  Buxton was a sophomore in HS, I believe.  So, yeah, maybe patience was required.  

 

This probably isn't the thread to discuss the Twins overall - feel free to make one - but Buxton's performance does deserve patience.  He's only 22 and missed a bunch of development time already.  I don't think anyone is making irrational predictions.  In this very thread, I said that he'd struggle this season but his sept would look a lot better and made a McCutchen comparison.  That seems accurate.  If he stays healthy, there's no reason to think he won't be a stud.  a 91 OPS+ and 2.0 WAR season wasn't great but it's not horrible, especially considering where he was a few months ago.  

[Mike Sixel]

The irrational part is on my end.....I don't think as a FAN, I have any need to be rational about my expectations...others don't agree, I'm cool with that, as long as we are respectful of each other here.

[gunnarthor]

 

The irrational part is on my end.....I don't think as a FAN, I have any need to be rational about my expectations...others don't agree, I'm cool with that, as long as we are respectful of each other here.

Respectful?  Dude, I no longer have my three warning posts.  I'm gonna go off on someone!  Where's Dave?

[Mike Sixel]

 

Respectful?  Dude, I no longer have my three warning posts.  I'm gonna go off on someone!  Where's Dave?

 

Good stuff!

[mazeville]

 

Well, we've been told to be patient for 5 or 6 years now.....on the team. And, every year, those goal posts move....every year. Some of us, knowing that fandom is 100% irrational, aren't going to act rationally, it just isn't going to happen. Hopefully we can still be friends!

 

The lesson here isn't patience with "the team," but patience with a player. 

 

I, too, am impatient with this team at this point. I want them to win yesterday. I'm sick of the losing. I'm tired of the excuses. I'm REALLY tired of the team taking half-hearted efforts at trades and free agent signings. So I get the lack of patience when it comes to the TEAM.

 

But individual players deserve patience even on a team that doesn't. Calling Byron Buxton a flop when he had less than a year's experience in the majors -- and was called up too early from AA -- was silly. He needed more time. And now he is clearly showing he can play in the majors.

 

 

[ashbury]

Respectful?  Dude, I no longer have my three warning posts.  I'm gonna go off on someone!  Where's Dave?

 

_^/obligatory

[Mike Sixel]

 

The lesson here isn't patience with "the team," but patience with a player. 

 

I, too, am impatient with this team at this point. I want them to win yesterday. I'm sick of the losing. I'm tired of the excuses. I'm REALLY tired of the team taking half-hearted efforts at trades and free agent signings. So I get the lack of patience when it comes to the TEAM.

 

But individual players deserve patience even on a team that doesn't. Calling Byron Buxton a flop when he had less than a year's experience in the majors -- and was called up too early from AA -- was silly. He needed more time. And now he is clearly showing he can play in the majors.

 

Well, 1 month no more shows he's ready than the previous few hundred showed he was a flop....

 

the team is made up of players, not sure how to separate my impatience. 

 

Look, I agree, it often takes time for players.....otoh, lots of ELITE prospects seem to be coming up and doing well out of the gate.....over more than a 1-3 month time span....I think WANTING that here is completely within the range of what a fan should want....

[ashbury]

Hopefully we can still be friends!

You're breaking up with us? This is so sudden. Couldn't you have waited until after the holidays?

[mazeville]

 

 

Look, I agree, it often takes time for players.....otoh, lots of ELITE prospects seem to be coming up and doing well out of the gate.....over more than a 1-3 month time span....I think WANTING that here is completely within the range of what a fan should want....

 

I agree it's tough watching these elite prospects perform while ours do not. But that doesn't render Buxton a flop, either. 

 

Did he have a disappointing start to his major league career? Absolutely.

 

Was he a flop? Nope. Players with less than a year's worth of major league experience and very little experience at AAA or even AA cannot be declared a flop.

[Blackjack]

Lets just hope that Buxton can stay healthy in 2017, then next October we'll have a better handle on what kind of player he will be.  One good month or even one good year does not make a HOF career.

[gunnarthor]

 

loss_for_words.gif

 

_^/obligatory

Nos modérateurs sont trop stupides pour savoir quand nous les moquer. Capitaine Mal était génial. Vous ne pouvez pas arrêter le signal.

[wsnydes]

 

It's comforting to know we excel at something.

Excelling at an elite level of not excelling since 2011!

[Brock Beauchamp]

While we definitely need to see more of Buxton before we can declare he has fully turned the corner, it should be acknowledged the guy only has 469 career PAs. That's not even 3/4 of a full season.

 

And in his final 113 PAs - or roughly 25% of his overall career line - he has posted a 1.011 OPS.

 

So if we were sliding his potential ceiling way down - as many were - after 350 career PAs, we should be sliding that ceiling back up again after 113 PAs. Not only were those 113 PAs 25% of his overall line but they were the most recent 25% to boot.