Ricky Implies He Won't Go Quietly to the Pen

[DocBauer]

I wish I could miss most of 2 years at my job, more or less stink when I was on the clock without any repercussions, still have guaranteed pay for the next 2 years regardless if I stink again or even show up.

 

Options? Try to stay healthy, do your best, sack up and be a professional for your team, yourself and your reputation. Not to mention any career beyond today.

[Boom Boom]

I don't think there will be an issue because the Twins will likely agree with agent guy that they're paying Nolasco too much to not start.

[zakprior]

 

Didn't the Mets flirt with a 6 man rotation late last year?  Any possibilities of the Twins doing this?

 

I think the six man rotation only works if you have a load of starters that go deep into the game leaving little work for the 7 relievers. Then doing a six man works because each of those players who go deep into games gets an extra day of rest, works out pretty well. Santana did it a few times but the twins starters typically don't work really late into the game. Thus straining the bullpen and giving extra rest to starters who typically don't throw that much. Overall I'd say it's a no for the twins. 

 

I know this is all agent chatter, but if he were to refuse to go to the 'pen, any legal action that could happen and get the Twins off the hook for the remaining $25m?

[Platoon]

I don't think there will be an issue because the Twins will likely agree with agent guy that they're paying Nolasco too much to not start.

Ah, the core issue! If the Twins move Rinky to the BP and an average BP salary is what? 2M? They are losing 10M a year on him. Looking at it that way, cutting him costs 2M not 10M. For bankers this should be an easy call. OK, but that's not going to happen. His agent was likely just letting the Twins know ahead of time that his client was a veteran SP, and if they thought he would merrily go to the pen, he wanted them to know they were badly mistaken. Young guys like Duffey have to pitch themselves UNTO a team. Veterans like Rinky, have to pitch themselves OFF. Add the 10M into the equation, and your new number 4 starter is Nolasco. and has been, barring injury from last November. Anyone who thinks 25 man rosters are set by talent levels, is not being realistic. As for paying him, several posters in another article on the topic said that Rinky has reached certain veteran years of service levels that would preclude the team from DFA'ing him and not paying him, even if he refuses assignments? Anyone know the rules on this?

[ThejacKmp]

TR places so much emphasis on make up that I am surprised that they apparently missed that with Ricky. He really sticks out because the Twins seem to have a genuinely good clubhouse.

In his defense he busted his butt off to get back for the end of next year when he could easily have shut it down. This seems more like agent posturing than some fundamental flaw in Ricky.

[USAFChief]

If it's just agent speak, not coming from Nolasco, it should be pretty easy for Nolasco to clear up any misunderstanding, right?

[TheLeviathan]

Yeah, the agent is pretty clear he's speaking with direct influence from his client.  I'm not sure why we're trying to give Nolasco a pass here.

[Craig Arko]

 

If it's just agent speak, not coming from Nolasco, it should be pretty easy for Nolasco to clear up any misunderstanding, right?

Much like Adrian Peterson is now playing for the Cowboys.

[theBOMisthebomb]

Hey Ricky don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.

[zakprior]

 

Ah, the core issue! If the Twins move Rinky to the BP and an average BP salary is what? 2M? They are losing 10M a year on him. Looking at it that way, cutting him costs 2M not 10M. For bankers this should be an easy call. OK, but that's not going to happen. His agent was likely just letting the Twins know ahead of time that his client was a veteran SP, and if they thought he would merrily go to the pen, he wanted them to know they were badly mistaken. Young guys like Duffey have to pitch themselves UNTO a team. Veterans like Rinky, have to pitch themselves OFF. Add the 10M into the equation, and your new number 4 starter is Nolasco. and has been, barring injury from last November. Anyone who thinks 25 man rosters are set by talent levels, is not being realistic. As for paying him, several posters in another article on the topic said that Rinky has reached certain veteran years of service levels that would preclude the team from DFA'ing him and not paying him, even if he refuses assignments? Anyone know the rules on this?

 

It annoys me that teams/organisations think like this. The fact is: we have to pay $25M to Ricky over the next 2 years. I now don't care about that $25m as it has gone, we have to pay it, it's a sunk cost. So, as far as I see it, we want to maximise his value. I'd say that'll happen in the pen! I don't care what Ricky says or thinks, he's getting paid a lot of money he'll do as asked or come to a mutual agreement to void the contract (which he obviously won't do). I don't see why we'd start him just because of what we are paying him. That should now be irrelevant. The way it should be looked at: we have an entire organisation at our level of payroll, no matter who plays where and who is being paid what, let's maximise wins with these players.

[alarp33]

 

Just a random thought. I seem to recall this was Mike Pelfrey's stance last spring prior to Santana being suspended and it appeared he was ticketed for the pen. Does anyone else recall this?

 

You are correct (Though I'm not sure he asked to be traded, he certainly seemed to complain a ton). My 1st thought was, it seemed to work for Pelfrey... why not give it a try if you are Ricky. 

 

That being said, my thought all along has been the Twins are hoping Nolasco pitches well enough this Spring that they can trade him.  Obviously they are going to have to eat some of the remaining salary, so maybe I'm wrong.. but cutting ties makes too much sense. 

[Craig Arko]

Best of all possible worlds; a deal can be worked out with the Dodgers. Probably means eating some, maybe most, of the contract but that's the way these things go sometimes.

 

You pays yer money, you takes yer chances...

[Otto von Ballpark]

Much like Adrian Peterson is now playing for the Cowboys.

Well, Peterson did get a restructured deal out of it with the Vikings.

 

Last spring, Pelfrey said he'd welcome a trade. He never got it, but he did get a rotation spot for the whole season going into free agency.

 

I agree Nolasco may not achieve his full public demands, but he doesn't necessarily have to, in order to achieve his primary objective.

 

The idea that the agent is speaking against the wishes of his client isn't really supported by any evidence here yet.

[Mike Sixel]

I do think he should have a fair competition to see who is the right SP for that last spot......and if he loses it, he should go to the bullpen and be happy his arm will be healthier when he retires, and he has more money than he can ever need.

[Blake]

 

You are correct (Though I'm not sure he asked to be traded, he certainly seemed to complain a ton). My 1st thought was, it seemed to work for Pelfrey... why not give it a try if you are Ricky. 

 

That being said, my thought all along has been the Twins are hoping Nolasco pitches well enough this Spring that they can trade him.  Obviously they are going to have to eat some of the remaining salary, so maybe I'm wrong.. but cutting ties makes too much sense. 

If memory serves, Pelfrey was at first upset, got over it and started anticipating working as a reliever.

[Thrylos]

 

 

 

The ball is in the Twins court. They can:

 

 

2.) They could DFA him. Then Nolasco could accept it and start in Rochester (and get paid) or decline it and pitch out of the bullpen (and get paid) or he can choose to become a free agent (not get paid). 

 

In other words, there aren't a lot of options. So, it's really much ado about nothing. 

 

Not quite.  As a 5 year + veteran, Nolasco would have to accept assignment.  If he does not accept the team has to release him (not him becoming a free agent) and pay him per his contract.  So that not up there is wrong.

 

He also has to clear waivers; which he might not and get selected by another team, in which case that team will fulfill his contract

 

He can also retire and nullify his contract like Cuddyer did 

 

[Linus]

Ironically the fastest way to get him out of town with the least damage would be to start him hope he pitches well and trade him in June.

[Vanimal46]

 

Ironically the fastest way to get him out of town with the least damage would be to start him hope he pitches well and trade him in June.

Didn't we think the same way about Pelfrey last year? 

[Otto von Ballpark]

Technically Nolasco could refuse a minor league assignment and opt for free agency, nullifying his contract, but there is no way he would do that, since he can simply refuse and stay on the MLB roster and force the team to release him.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Ironically the fastest way to get him out of town with the least damage would be to start him hope he pitches well and trade him in June.

I think it will take a full season of acceptable performance to offload Nolasco. After two years of bad play and injury, I don't see a team falling over itself to pick up ~$18m worth of contract over the next season and a half.

 

And if Nolasco is somehow above average, it may be in the Twins' best interests to keep him around for the entire season, provided they're contending.

 

But offloading a $12m contract after the season concludes is a reasonable task, provided Ricky doesn't pitch his way to another well below average season.

[alarp33]

 

If memory serves, Pelfrey was at first upset, got over it and started anticipating working as a reliever.

 

I was wrong in that he did say he would "welcome a trade".  I don't think he ever got over it, but browsing articles from back then he sort of apologized and said he would deal with it.  Anticipating it? I don't think that ever happened.  

[alarp33]

 

I think it will take a full season of acceptable performance to offload Nolasco. After two years of bad play and injury, I don't see a team falling over itself to pick up ~$18m worth of contract over the next season and a half.

 

And if Nolasco is somehow above average, it may be in the Twins' best interests to keep him around for the entire season, provided they're contending.

 

But offloading a $12m contract after the season concludes is a reasonable task, provided Ricky doesn't pitch his way to another well below average season.

 

They are allowed to pick up some of the salary.... 

 

If they have no intentions on him in the rotation (It certainly seems as of now Milone + Duffey have upper hand)... you really think they would like to keep a $12million/year reliever around? Or would they just pick up at least half of the contract and give him away. 

[Dantes929]

 

I'm actually one of the few posters advocating to keep an open mind with Ricky. That perhaps he can get it together and help the Twins. Boy he makes it hard to keep an open mind about him. What a jackass.

I remember a pretty fair amount of vitriol against Perkins several years back.    A little bit different situation but still in the same ball park.    Maybe in 6 months we are all loving him.   I doubt it but no reason to give up on him either.     I just think all the other guys have earned their way to being above him in the pecking order.    I also don't see why paying him a lot of money makes it the Twins obligation to rank him any higher.   I wouldn't be indignant about not being given front runner status.   I would be embarrassed about what I gave them in return for their money to this point.  

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

They are allowed to pick up some of the salary.... 

 

If they have no intentions on him in the rotation (It certainly seems as of now Milone + Duffey have upper hand)... you really think they would like to keep a $12million/year reliever around? Or would they just pick up at least half of the contract and give him away. 

For good or bad, the Twins don't like the idea of paying a player to pitch for another team. It's not out of the realm of possibility but it's unlikely.

 

And it's not a bad strategy, despite what some on the board say about it. If you pay $5m of Nolasco's salary to offload him, you will not receive anything approaching $5m back in prospects. You'll be lucky to get $500k worth of prospects back in the deal. It's bad money management to hand away cash like that, though in a few cases it makes some sense (and Nolasco may be one of those cases, as it may require throwing in money to get him off the roster at all).

[tobi0040]

Rock, meet hard place.

 

I expect him to pout like a child if he is moved to the pen.  Pelfrey did and it worked.  That is why you don't give in to pouting, it breeds more pouting

[tobi0040]

 

For good or bad, the Twins don't like the idea of paying a player to pitch for another team. It's not out of the realm of possibility but it's unlikely.

 

And it's not a bad strategy, despite what some on the board say about it. If you pay $5m of Nolasco's salary to offload him, you will not receive anything approaching $5m back in prospects. You'll be lucky to get $500k worth of prospects back in the deal. It's bad money management to hand away cash like that, though in a few cases it makes some sense (and Nolasco may be one of those cases, as it may require throwing in money to get him off the roster at all).

 

The contract decision is over with though.  The bad decision is using that contract to carve out innings for a guy that can't get anyone out.  The Twins are in a position to replace those innings with a guy making $500k a year.  We don't need to spend a ton of money to replace his innings.

 

The math on this is very easy.  Would you rather give Nolasco innings, or pay $500k more to have a better pitcher take them?

[alarp33]

 

For good or bad, the Twins don't like the idea of paying a player to pitch for another team. It's not out of the realm of possibility but it's unlikely.

 

And it's not a bad strategy, despite what some on the board say about it. If you pay $5m of Nolasco's salary to offload him, you will not receive anything approaching $5m back in prospects. You'll be lucky to get $500k worth of prospects back in the deal. It's bad money management to hand away cash like that, though in a few cases it makes some sense (and Nolasco may be one of those cases, as it may require throwing in money to get him off the roster at all).

 

Paying $5 million for him not to pitch for the Twins > Paying $12 million for him to be a non effective reliever, on the DL, and whining for a trade.  

 

I would say only having to pay $5 million of a $12 million sunk cost is pretty good money management. 

 

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Rock, meet hard place.

 

I expect him to pout like a child if he is moved to the pen.  Pelfrey did and it worked.

Maybe my memory is failing me but I'm pretty sure Pelfrey only received a rotation spot after Santana was suspended for PED use days before the regular season opener.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Paying $5 million for him not to pitch for the Twins > Paying $12 million for him to be a non effective reliever, on the DL, and whining for a trade.  

 

I would say only having to pay $5 million of a $12 million sunk cost is pretty good money management. 

Sure, this works if Nolasco is actually a bad pitcher. If he's a decent (or good) pitcher, paying for him to pitch somewhere else makes little sense.

 

And that's why I said it *might* make sense in Nolasco's case.

 

Or it might not.

[alarp33]

 

Maybe my memory is failing me but I'm pretty sure Pelfrey only received a rotation spot after Santana was suspended for PED use days before the regular season opener.

 

You are right, but I would argue his pouting in March factored into the decision to remove May from the rotation in July, likely costing the Twins a playoff spot.