Where Are The Twins Getting It Wrong?

The problemi is two:

(1) Seeing what you have. They inherited some fine young players. The big two stepped back from okay 2017 seasons, sadly. They might be holding back on a few others, thinking the end of their five year rebuild plan.

(2) 2017 was an oddity. They needed to put butts in the seat. Thoughts were given to striking big with a major contract. Instead, they settled on a few modest signings which should've worked out. I had no problem with the off-season moves. In the central division as it is, the Twins should've been competitive. But with their "prospects" slumping and their free agents doing nothing, they did a sell off which will probably payoff bigtime down-the-line. Mark my words.

Now they get to do Year Two all over again in Year 3...giving another chance to Sano and Buxton to start to shine. They will look at Gonsalves, Stewart, Littell and others to become mainstays. They have some arms in development for the bullpen.

Yes, there are lacking holes in the batting order and you either give a chance to unproven folks (Gordon) or bring in some temporary help.

Joe Mauer still remains a question. What does he want compared to what the team offers is the question. Can't wait to see how the market might play for Joe (aand Dozier and Escobar and Santana). I would be happy and content that the Twins try and trade some excess minor league talent for someone like (or a tad better) than Odorizzi who they can control, or just push prospects.

The minor leagues did pretty darn good. Yes, it was the lower four levels. The upper two, one filled with minor league AAAA guys mostly, struck out. I hope they advance and play their own prospects more than filling the rosters with other team throwaways. They have the bodies right now, adding a dozen more than expected in the season.

The Big Question: Field Staff! Who do they choose.

I see the words “radically shaken up a firmly entrenched organizational structure.”

Don’t know if I can agree with that. From what has been publicly reported, a handful of guys were shuffled. Another handful let go. I’d call that rearranging deck chairs. If there is some information available as to how many (and what percentage) of player development and scouting personnel were let go, I’d be interested in seeing it. Until that evidence is shown, as far as I am concerned it’s the same people in the trenches making the same decisions just with a new boss.

Probably time for a new younger manager. I'm not sure Mollie is a bad manager but I don't think he's a good one. His results have been bad and /or just barely mediocre. When your best is mediocre it's time for a change.

The FO only inherited Molitor for the 17' season. They signed him to a 3 year extension after that year. Whatever role he plays in this mess can't be viewed as out of the hands of this FO. 

I keep wondering if we just simply experienced a confluence of factors that contributed to the malaise, and that fewer things were "done" wrong and more things just "went" wrong. I see some things that need to "coalesce".  I see a couple more things that need fixing, starting with a replacement of Molitor.

Many of the talent evaluators are holdovers, and that's good, as evidenced by a number of successful drafts, trades, international signings, etc. I don't see that this skill is a weakness, and it might be a strength, especially now that the human talent has been augmented by technology, systems, and analytical support.

The organization really beefed up its baseball operations big time. We might want to give it another year to start reaping dividends.

I'll continue to contend that the FO should not be on the hook for the colossal failings of Sano and Buxton, which I attribute mostly to just plain unforeseeable bad luck. And it's those two huge disappointments that dwarf any other contributing factors to the horrendous results we're seeing in 2018.

There may be some personnel improvements that can still be made in the development ranks and in the field staff of affiliates, but I see coaching leadership at Target Field as a very likely culprit.

So, MLB leadership, luck, and more time to gel, in that order, IMO.

It all goes back to Sano/Buxton not doing much this year. Polanco missing a half season. Santana and Castro being hurt 90% of the year. Etc.

 

I definitely think that the Falvey/Levine combination will be just fine. They just need more time. They've done a lot of good things. 

 

But this was an interesting line to me:

 

 

This is the feeling from people in and outside the organization. I've talked to many players still in the organization and some now outside of the organization. I've been told by several that they feel like "just a number." A lot of guys signed or drafted before the new regime feel like their time may be short...

 

Terry Ryan was very present. It was important to him that the players knew he was around, and they knew he could be communicated with, etc. He spent a lot of time at the affiliates. 

 

It's a completely different culture. Even if some of the names are the same. There have been a lot of guys let go (front office types, scouts, etc.). Some have remained but the culture is completely different. It's all business.. and that doesn't have to be a bad thing. 

Seth, some of this might be true, but all business is not an end all in the baseball business.  Players must know you care for their welfare and are interested in bringing out their best.  If their best is not good enough, most of them will understand they tried and did not succeed.  

If you make it all business, you risk the players that do succeed being alienated from the club and if they feel like a number, they will leave as soon as they can.  Example, if you play for Oakland or Tampa Bay, you most likely will be traded before you hit FA, therefore your loyalty to these clubs is likely to be less then to a successful club that your are a part of.  Just do not want the Twins to become like a farm club, where most of your better players decide long before FA that they do not want to be part of the long term future of your club.

It worries me along with other posters, that many of the Twins players traded or released the last couple of years (or left in minor league FA), have become much better players with their new clubs.  That seldom happened in the Terry Ryan era We already have seen this with Pressly and Derek Rodriquez, two pitchers who should have been part of the Twins future. 

We also need to sign the building blocks for the future.  None of us know the details, but am disappointed that none of the young Twins have been signed to long term deals.

Romero and Berrios are a must this offseason, and I wonder what they offered Escobar that was turned down(reported by the local papers here), before he was traded.  

I wonder if some of the offers were extremely team friendly and what damage that might have done in the long run.

We also need to sign the building blocks for the future. None of us know the details, but am disappointed that none of the young Twins have been signed to long term deals.

Romero and Berrios are a must this offseason, and I wonder what they offered Escobar that was turned down(reported by the local papers here), before he was traded.

I wonder if some of the offers were extremely team friendly and what damage that might have done in the long run.

Very inciteful. I also wonder if one would have signed, others would have followed.

In fairness, that article about Pressley doesn't suggest the Astros fixed Pressly. Alston is specifically credited for getting him to use it and pushing him to keep using it.

 

Frankly, I think most of these issues still stem from the state the franchise was in when these guys took over. Two years is not a lot of time. Luhnow didn't rebuild in two years either.

The problem is the Twins haven’t acted like a rebuilding team. As evidenced by signing guys like Lance Lynn and trading for Odorizzi. Those are moves of a team trying to contend. And further, let’s talk about the continued playing time for Petit, Field, Belisle, Forsythe. If this organizationis trying to rebuild, they are not doing so in a way that any other team has done.

The entire Twins organization (Manager, Coaches, Catchers) NEVER figured out HOW to use Pressly. Just look back at how his pitches were called when he was with the Twins and how his pitches are being called in Houston. In Minnesota, was it that he shook off the catchers or that he didn't shake them off when he should have?

As I remember it Pressly hung a lot of breaking balls here, it seems that was fixed in Houston.  In the FO defense, one of the best new prospects in the Twins orgainization, came from Houston in the trade.

Pressly was pretty good for the Twins this year.  That's why they got some good prospects by trading him.  I was ready to give up on him multiple times over the years, but he is a success story--for both FO regimes.  He looks even better when he's pitching for the best team in baseball.

Change is hard, and the TR era culture was long-standing and perhaps unique.  Perhaps a final house cleaning of veteran players from that era will help transition away from guys pining for the good ol days.

I was nodding my head in agreement about the personal touch Falvey seems to lack.  But maybe he's just crazy like a fox.  I'm starting to think they decided to try and piss Buxton off in order to light a fire in him.  I think Buxton is somebody who needs to embrace the Dark Side--he might be better when he's angry.  Then again, maybe all they did was give him a worse complex.  I hope not.  I hope he's at home saying he'll show them they were wrong (and they'll be sorry when he leaves in free agency.)

I don't see the angst over the trading deadline "sale". We weren't going anywhere, and as we may have noticed there is nothing in Rochester that indicates we are going anywhere next year either. Any talent, if it exists is south of there. There are things that can't be controlled. Injuries, sadly suspensions, and unexpected slumps. These happen to everyone. The issue is what do you do when they happen, and the season is lost. In some aspects they did fine, get what you could for expiring contracted players. But after that you need to use the time to find out what you have, and what you don't. Polanco to me is an example of how not to do this. Once Dozier was gone it was time to move Polanco to second base and let anyone, even Giminez, , play SS. You already know Polanco can't, so you have to find out if he can play second. Garver is another example. WAY to many wasted innings with Wilson and Giminez. These things seem obvious, at least to me. What isn't obvious is who is responsible? Molitor? Or the FO? Something just seems amiss in the coordination of the roster, and the on field playing time. One last thing. Teaching "launch angle" style hitting to players who don't have the natural power to hit the ball consistently into the seats is senseless. I would guarantee it ruins as many hitters as it improves. I think Kepler may be a good example.

Count me among those that believe they haven't done all that much wrong.  The problems leading to this year's failure are the result of bad luck, lack of performance by several critical parts of this team, a bad decision by their shortstop and a failure by most of the free agent signings who all looked good on paper.

I hope they don't make too many radical moves this coming off-season.  Rather, they should focus on signing a few of their in house youngsters, Berrios, Rosario and Gibson...well, Gibson isn't young anymore.  Then sink or swim next year to some extent based on whether or not the two super prospects, Buxton and Sano, perform.  If not, going into 2020 write them out of the plan and move on.

They also need a second baseman.  Go get Eduardo back should take care of that.  As for the on field staff, agree that there seems to be something missing and a change might make sense.

The organization doesn't care about the players? 

The organization under the new regime looked at what happened last year and, in the off-season, rewarded the team by going out and spending money on free agent acquisitions, which, from I read, was greeted with enthusiasm by the clubhouse.

Something the FO has been loathe to do in the past.

Yet, the players brought in by Ryan didn't respond and step up.

Also, key players, players that were brought in by the previous FO, have struggled at the MLB level.

Sorry, this whole, "the organization doesn't care about the players" crap is another way to avoid the obvious: The players on the field aren't getting the job done.

Per USAF Chief

"I can tell you one place where they're getting it wrong: take a look at the current 40 man roster, two years into their tenure.

Arguably worse than at any point in my lifetime. And none of what young talent they do have has been signed to a long term contract. Not one single player."

Bingo, bingo, and bingo! The Twins are in worse shape than at any time including 2016 and that includes the Manager. Molitor seems to be daring the FO to fire him with the lineups and batting orders he has been sending out there. "What are you going to do, fire me?" Only good news is that there should be absolutely no false hope for 2019 and absolutely no marketing slogan that can sugar coat the obvious. Proof in the pudding will be the Baltimore Orioles who crashed and burned this year. I predict they will out perform the Twins next year.

Hopefully the FO learns from this year’s unpredictability and truly commits to a full blown youth movement in 2019.

I mean we traded Pressly, might as well trade Gibson, Odorizzi, and Castro too.

I can tell you one place where they're getting it wrong: take a look at the current 40 man roster, two years into their tenure.

 

Arguably worse than at any point in my lifetime. And none of what young talent they do have has been signed to a long term contract. Not one single player. 

 

Maybe they've made improvements behind the scenes, but you'll have a hard time convincing me it's made any positive difference to date.

 

And maybe they have a strong lower minor league system. We've had that in the recent past, too. And as Twins fans, nobody should have to tell us a strong lower minor league system isn't a guarantee of anything.

 

It's only been two years, I get that. And they weren't handed a healthy organization. But it's reasonable to conclude the organization is in worse shape now than when they took over. 

I'm going to toss this out there: What the FO does with the 40 man this off-season should tell us a lot.

If it's cleaned up and players let go that have no business being on the 40 man, then good.

Otherwise, yeah.

The human aspect of the job seems to be the thing Falvey and Levine struggle with the most. Minimal to no communication with key organization players past and present.

Ignore your personal feelings about these players... They did not speak to Dozier about an extension or his future with the team. They did not speak to Mauer about his opinion of getting traded or not. They did not speak to Buxton about their decision to send him home for the season.

Most decisions they've made so far is for the benefit of the organization, and Pohlad's wallet. It's not like they've done anything beyond the rules set in place. However, they don't sound like people I would personally want to report into.

I want to feel like a real person, not an ant in an ant farm.

Yes, but is that the responsibility of the CEO or the department head? 

I don't see how anyone can say things are worse that all those 90 loss seasons. Those were some super high draft picks, if they don't pan out this will just take longer. Houston is where they are because their super high draft picks did pan out. This FO has made moves to improve the farm at every opportunity. I am bothered by some of the 40 man/ rule five stuff and the current marginal talents in the lineup. The angst over Buxton is overblown. Gibby got sent down twice something Ryan's regime wouldn't have done and it worked. That was some tough love. If Buxton is complaining now i hope it is in front of a mirror. Some of these guys need to understand the toughness it takes to be a Correa or Lindor. Talent is great but even the best are supreme grinders.

Why is the 40-man roster a disaster?  Lets begin by looking at how several players who are on it have performed.  Gonsalves, not getting it done.  Ditto, Stewart.  Slegers, always a AAAA player.  Romero, probably a good one who is going thru his first year troubles.  Little, one they brought in who is a long shot.  Gordon, sure failed when promoted to AAA.  Wade, although not on the 40-man, ditto Gordon.  Busenitz, great at AAA, but last night was an example of what happens when they bring him up.  Duffey, don't know what the problem is but he ain't the pitcher he was his rookie season.

 

That's 9, or more than 20% of the 40-man.  Those of you contemplating some changes this winter had better hope you are right.  Unfortunately, there isn't a magic wand that is gonna fix it next year....well there is, its called Buxton and Sano.  Just don't know if that wand is gonna get turned on.